It's called Exodus International and its a ministry that helps people who want to get out of homosexualoty.
And there are many who do.
Many who do what Def? Get out of homosexuality? I don't think so. Most of the 'cured' only become celibate, or worse, suicides. Check Exodus International's track record.
Wow, def, that "study" you presented was about as relevant and about as substantial as the study that My3Cents posted earlier regarding: Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'.
And, thanks for seeing what my point was in posting that information. :)
Who someone has sex with does not make them who they are.
We are more than hormones. We are substantive people.
I maintain that we are ALL sinners and NONE of us is perfect, THEREFORE, it's none of my d@m* business what someone else's sins are or aren't. FURTHERMORE, not everyone believes the same thing. What I might think is a sin someone else doesn't. Judging and focusing on someone else's sins does me no good whatsoever and in TWIt words, "has no profit in it."
Besides that, if vee pee apologists will remember vee pee said that ALL SINS ARE EQUAL! Not one sin is more "sinful" than another. Remember all those X's he put on his poster board? All of 'em are bad. Not one is worse than another in God's eyes. So who the heck am I to worry about my brother or sister's sins when mine are just as bad in God's eyes?
Judging and avoiding and not helping, loving and caring for one another is also sin! Besides that, by behaving that way, we miss out on so much in life and on getting to know someone who could make a difference in our lives.
I know some of you prefer to “pick and choose” which parts of the Bible you want to believe, follow and obey and a lot of the vee pee apologists don’t give much credence to the teachings of Jesus, but this is how I try to look at things:
Luke 6:22-37
Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward [is] great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
And unto him that smiteth thee on the [one] cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not [to take thy] coat also.
Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask [them] not again.
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
Besides that, if vee pee apologists will remember vee pee said that ALL SINS ARE EQUAL! Not one sin is more "sinful" than another. Remember all those X's he put on his poster board? All of 'em are bad. Not one is worse than another in God's eyes. So who the heck am I to worry about my brother or sister's sins when mine are just as bad in God's eyes?
I've no quarrel with what you're saying, but I don't want to let vee pee weewillie's BS go by without comment. If it were true, then murdering every Christian in the world, destroying every Bible, and forcing everyone to swear loyalty to Satan would be no worse in God's eyes than having an "unclean thought" about some woman (or man). There's no Biblical or rational justification for such nonsense.
Hmm, some who were living their lives as homosexuals have later 'changed' (or have been delivered), and yet others would argue that no homosexual has ever 'changed'.
Cowboy walks into a bar and sees a beatiful young lady that is very seductively dressed. He walks up tips his hat and says "howdy ma'am".
The young lady replies " I am a lesbian!"
Puzzled the cowboy asks "excuse me ma'am what is a lesbian?"
The young lady explains " I love women, all I can do is think about making love to beautiful women all day long and at night I dream about making love to beautiful women when I am not actually making love to one." Then she walks away from the bar.
Another attractive lady walks up and inquires "are you a real cowboy?"
He thinks for a minute," I use to think I was but I just found out I am a lesbian"
Excie...hey I'm back FINALLY, as once the forum changed..I couldn't get back on till today!! HOOOOray
Yes I've seen some honest attempts to refer me to different groups that could possibly help my friend..I've seen alot of people pretty supportive of Lesbianism, which quite frankly suprises me, but I realize that this is NOT a "Christian forum" of sorts...what I beleive at this point is that Lesbianism is deviant behavior & I believe a type of behavior that has serious consequences.. I realize that there are posters who don't see it that way..I believe its sin & a "tough sin" to be relieved of in the "guilt category of life". I also KNOW I'm not the judge..nor is anyone...as if my judgement of anyone who trips on drugs or is uncontrollable with alcohol use needs my judgement..all of sin in our lives has an "escape"..by "hitting the mark" instead of missing it.My take is..to escape lesbianism must be a very very tough concept for anyone desiring to be different than they are. Alcoholism is a tough one & yet I know of a few personal friends who are no longer alcoholics, based on doing the l2 step plan etc.. So alcoholism is available to "escape"
Doesn't seem possible to "escape" Lesbianism, according to many of the posters here..& yeh I get it from a few of you "WHATS TO ESCAPE FROM?" Some of you state that its a "life ruiner" of sorts (my words)..others acceptable..even before our creator..since God loves us all........I believe God loves us all..no matter what sins we're into..but ya gotta figure God would love to see us not tripped up over these different sinful practices & their consequences.
As I stated earlier..this is a very wonderful gal..very intelligent..very much seeking & finding
I still hold to the fact that God created Man for woman & visa versa..no Adam & Steve ..& in enjoying that plan, there are great blessings..
Sorry if this offends ya'll..but at least you know where I stand on the subject and willing to consider others opinions of course.
Funny joke Wingnut..the cowboy in alot of us males eh??
Tell me something 2J, could you ever become a homosexual? As in, make the choice, and follow through on it. Could you even choose to behave like one - like holding another guy's hand, they way you might hold a woman's? Let's leave aside your convictions for a moment. Suppose you'd never heard a discouraging word about it.
Could you change your orientation?
I'll supply your answer for you, and correct me if I'm wrong. You will say "no," and an emphatic "NO" at that.
What makes you think your friend, or any homosexual, became convinced (logically or otherwise) it would be a good idea to force her (or his) way through the emotional aversion, if not revulsion, which you might feel at the same thought, to embrace someone else of the same sex? Think about that.
Do you think it's a "spirit." Really? Could a spirit convince or compel you to kiss another guy - on the lips? And enjoy it? I doubt it. We could mention some other places it might want your mouth to go. But we won't go there, okay?
My point is this. You are clueless. Your friend may well need the care of a doctor, the counsel of a therapist, and the consolation of a minister, as well as the devotion of a friend (if that's what you are). You are neither doctor, nor therapist, nor minister as far as I can tell.
If she needs and wants help, you can help her find help, but you cannot help much beyond that, and if you try you could do a lot of harm. Be a devoted friend, if that's what you are, or beg her forgiveness and leave her alone, if you aren't.
The point of my earlier questions was this. Our sexual behaviors are as deeply rooted as our most fundamental feelings and instincts. Affirmations and proclamations will not change them. Nor will prohibitions. Nor will condemnations. Nor will your friendship, support, counsel, encouragement, and so on ad nauseum. Nor will bible teachings, scripture references, manifestations, or even "love."
Those things are magic. Christian magic, Way magic, New Age magic, positive thinking magic, all of the above. The only results produced by magic are convincing it's practitioners that it works, even when it does not.
The Way is a great example. You were always believing, according to the Way. If you got good results, you believed positively. If not, you believed negatively. See? The magic always works.
I hope you will reconsider the self-indulgent urge to meddle in this person's life. If you want to fix somebody, buy a pet to practice on for 20 or 30 years.
The accounts of so many people who get into these alternative or deviant lifestyles due to abuse, addiction or lonliness are vast. So to say it is something that is intrinsic is balderdash.
To condemn someone to a destructive lifestyle because "they've always felt that way" is so evil, words fail me now. Many people in the homosexual life want out and want so desperately for someone to show them how.
The levels of abuse, alcoholism, drug use, obesity and other destructive behaviors is astounding, even in our tolerant culture.
People can't get over the guilt and if they do it generally means a searing of their conscience.
That being said, my comments earlier about the health risks lesbians face was really made out of compassion.
I am a diabetic, so I know the effects of lifestyle choices on my long-term well-being. It's the same with gays and lesbians. Their choices carry ramifications, to say otherwise is ignorant.
def59, you seem to think it's your responsiblity, and within your ability (and by inference, that of your religion), to change people from homosexual to heterosexual.
You are talking about lifestyle, and you are talking about sexuality. Do not confuse the two. You are buying into the stereotypes, and the result is misunderstanding and ignorance, as demonstrated by some of your comments.
Satori...to answer your initial question..an emphatic no. I'm l00% horney male...not fulfilled unless I'm with "eve"...BUT could I be deceived somewhere along the line to be convinced to "try out a guy"?
If I were in doubt of who I was sexually because of a past expereince..then perhaps I would & could let my mind CONSIDER something that is "against nature " (I think the Bible refers to homo as "against nature" in Romans) Having truth at my disposal...I can clearly choose what to believe...so if a deception came along..I'd "run" to my Bible to find God's answer (at this point in my life)
Satori..have you ever seen the movie "What the Bleep do we know?"..one of its "statements" is how a person "rewires" themselves, as time goes on, and in the case of homo..I believe that people do "rewire" themselves..perhaps for the sake of sanity...or fulfilling lustful suggestions made in their minds..or experimentation...& yet I believe we have a god who can help "us" re-wire back to his original design. After all "Father Knows Best" ...he's the inventor of life...he knows what will bless his child , and we're the variable in the equation as to our obedience in what he's shown each of us.
You make valid points in regards to whether or not I am a minister or therapist or whatever else. I've NOT driven a wedge between this gal & myself by TWIT thinking & condemnation..otherwise she'd been long gone. My goal is to help in a way I can..and I've drawn the conclusion at least in my life that "God's word will do the work" if we let it..let it soak into ones heart & let God do his thing in helping her. I get that!
I don't mind you judging from your standpoint, as I've read many others who don't come from a biblical perspective..& right on..you make much sense..from a worldly perspective.. Just don't see much "Godly deliverance" from the carnal viewpoint ..thats all.
I don't side with those who condem..its of no value to point a finger..as sin is pretty prevalant, as most of you have pointed out...So is there no help? Or is no help necessary...the latter is what I hear alot of you saying..I just simply disagree. Love the US of A!! where we can believe what we want to ! :^)
Exodus' success rate is in homosexuals staying celebate, or bi sexuals deciding to stick with the opposite sex. Their ability to change a homosexual into a heterosexual is non exsistant. Do some research!
... i have read somewhere that at least 75% of people men and woman have thought about having a homosexual experience
I admit that when I was a young adult, I experimented with homosexuality.
I found that I did not 'like' it. I prefer females.
... lighten up on gays folks they are real people just like us i would rather have a gay couple as neighbors than where shall we start
child molesters drug sellers murders
you finish this list and all you gay bashers i hope a drug lord moves next door to you
'child molester' uh, well, according to culture this issue varies a great deal. Historically our culture allowed marriage with 'children' females, and in some limited states it still does.
'drug sellers' is a fairly new idea. My grandparents could purchase opium, heroin, codiene, and even marijuana Over-the-counter. When they passed away, we found a stash of opium poppy heads and seeds in their garden shed. They were members of their church, leaders of their community, and highly respected. They never left America, they had a farm before the Great Depression, taught grammar school, and later after the Great Depression they founded a church together, wrote a weekly column in the local newspaper, and were highly respected. Were they 'druggees'? Here in America beign a 'drug dealer' was not considered in any way a bad thing 100 years ago.
'murderers' LOL. Yes, we have many veterans all around us.
You quite likely already do have drug-sellers, child molesters, and murderers living all around you. AND thier children and their grand children.
Some of you state that its a "life ruiner" of sorts (my words)..others acceptable..even before our creator..since God loves us all........I believe God loves us all..no matter what sins we're into..but ya gotta figure God would love to see us not tripped up over these different sinful practices & their consequences.
I would take the stance that the "life ruiner" is because of the oppressive way that society treats them... I would also take the stance that it's RELIGION that judges them sinful practices... and it's society and religion that deals out the consequences...
myseestorEx... boys of that age, and I'm guessing children of that age range can be cruel... it will pass... I'm sure that he'll 'grow out of it'... he's got too good of an example not to...
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Shellon
ROFL Garth
:blink:
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Brother Speed
Many who do what Def? Get out of homosexuality? I don't think so. Most of the 'cured' only become celibate, or worse, suicides. Check Exodus International's track record.
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Ham
Exie, I've been saying that all along.. glad somebody else sees it.. :lol:
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Belle
Wow, def, that "study" you presented was about as relevant and about as substantial as the study that My3Cents posted earlier regarding: Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'.
And, thanks for seeing what my point was in posting that information. :)
I maintain that we are ALL sinners and NONE of us is perfect, THEREFORE, it's none of my d@m* business what someone else's sins are or aren't. FURTHERMORE, not everyone believes the same thing. What I might think is a sin someone else doesn't. Judging and focusing on someone else's sins does me no good whatsoever and in TWIt words, "has no profit in it."
Besides that, if vee pee apologists will remember vee pee said that ALL SINS ARE EQUAL! Not one sin is more "sinful" than another. Remember all those X's he put on his poster board? All of 'em are bad. Not one is worse than another in God's eyes. So who the heck am I to worry about my brother or sister's sins when mine are just as bad in God's eyes?
Judging and avoiding and not helping, loving and caring for one another is also sin! Besides that, by behaving that way, we miss out on so much in life and on getting to know someone who could make a difference in our lives.
I know some of you prefer to “pick and choose” which parts of the Bible you want to believe, follow and obey and a lot of the vee pee apologists don’t give much credence to the teachings of Jesus, but this is how I try to look at things:
Luke 6:22-37
Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you [from their company], and shall reproach [you], and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward [is] great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
And unto him that smiteth thee on the [one] cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not [to take thy] coat also.
Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask [them] not again.
And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
And if ye lend [to them] of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
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Ham
Yep, that's what the man said, he did.. "there are ONLY GRADES OF SIN in SOCIETY".
"sin is sin".
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LG
I've no quarrel with what you're saying, but I don't want to let vee pee weewillie's BS go by without comment. If it were true, then murdering every Christian in the world, destroying every Bible, and forcing everyone to swear loyalty to Satan would be no worse in God's eyes than having an "unclean thought" about some woman (or man). There's no Biblical or rational justification for such nonsense.
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Galen
Hmm, some who were living their lives as homosexuals have later 'changed' (or have been delivered), and yet others would argue that no homosexual has ever 'changed'.
hmm.
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excathedra
and some straight people have changed or been delivered and now live their lives as homosexuals
hmmm
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wingnut
Cowboy walks into a bar and sees a beatiful young lady that is very seductively dressed. He walks up tips his hat and says "howdy ma'am".
The young lady replies " I am a lesbian!"
Puzzled the cowboy asks "excuse me ma'am what is a lesbian?"
The young lady explains " I love women, all I can do is think about making love to beautiful women all day long and at night I dream about making love to beautiful women when I am not actually making love to one." Then she walks away from the bar.
Another attractive lady walks up and inquires "are you a real cowboy?"
He thinks for a minute," I use to think I was but I just found out I am a lesbian"
:lol:
:unsure: :P B)
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Second James
Excie...hey I'm back FINALLY, as once the forum changed..I couldn't get back on till today!! HOOOOray
Yes I've seen some honest attempts to refer me to different groups that could possibly help my friend..I've seen alot of people pretty supportive of Lesbianism, which quite frankly suprises me, but I realize that this is NOT a "Christian forum" of sorts...what I beleive at this point is that Lesbianism is deviant behavior & I believe a type of behavior that has serious consequences.. I realize that there are posters who don't see it that way..I believe its sin & a "tough sin" to be relieved of in the "guilt category of life". I also KNOW I'm not the judge..nor is anyone...as if my judgement of anyone who trips on drugs or is uncontrollable with alcohol use needs my judgement..all of sin in our lives has an "escape"..by "hitting the mark" instead of missing it.My take is..to escape lesbianism must be a very very tough concept for anyone desiring to be different than they are. Alcoholism is a tough one & yet I know of a few personal friends who are no longer alcoholics, based on doing the l2 step plan etc.. So alcoholism is available to "escape"
Doesn't seem possible to "escape" Lesbianism, according to many of the posters here..& yeh I get it from a few of you "WHATS TO ESCAPE FROM?" Some of you state that its a "life ruiner" of sorts (my words)..others acceptable..even before our creator..since God loves us all........I believe God loves us all..no matter what sins we're into..but ya gotta figure God would love to see us not tripped up over these different sinful practices & their consequences.
As I stated earlier..this is a very wonderful gal..very intelligent..very much seeking & finding
I still hold to the fact that God created Man for woman & visa versa..no Adam & Steve ..& in enjoying that plan, there are great blessings..
Sorry if this offends ya'll..but at least you know where I stand on the subject and willing to consider others opinions of course.
Funny joke Wingnut..the cowboy in alot of us males eh??
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Allan
I think the key is to not KEEP sinning the SAME sin.
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satori001
Tell me something 2J, could you ever become a homosexual? As in, make the choice, and follow through on it. Could you even choose to behave like one - like holding another guy's hand, they way you might hold a woman's? Let's leave aside your convictions for a moment. Suppose you'd never heard a discouraging word about it.
Could you change your orientation?
I'll supply your answer for you, and correct me if I'm wrong. You will say "no," and an emphatic "NO" at that.
What makes you think your friend, or any homosexual, became convinced (logically or otherwise) it would be a good idea to force her (or his) way through the emotional aversion, if not revulsion, which you might feel at the same thought, to embrace someone else of the same sex? Think about that.
Do you think it's a "spirit." Really? Could a spirit convince or compel you to kiss another guy - on the lips? And enjoy it? I doubt it. We could mention some other places it might want your mouth to go. But we won't go there, okay?
My point is this. You are clueless. Your friend may well need the care of a doctor, the counsel of a therapist, and the consolation of a minister, as well as the devotion of a friend (if that's what you are). You are neither doctor, nor therapist, nor minister as far as I can tell.
If she needs and wants help, you can help her find help, but you cannot help much beyond that, and if you try you could do a lot of harm. Be a devoted friend, if that's what you are, or beg her forgiveness and leave her alone, if you aren't.
The point of my earlier questions was this. Our sexual behaviors are as deeply rooted as our most fundamental feelings and instincts. Affirmations and proclamations will not change them. Nor will prohibitions. Nor will condemnations. Nor will your friendship, support, counsel, encouragement, and so on ad nauseum. Nor will bible teachings, scripture references, manifestations, or even "love."
Those things are magic. Christian magic, Way magic, New Age magic, positive thinking magic, all of the above. The only results produced by magic are convincing it's practitioners that it works, even when it does not.
The Way is a great example. You were always believing, according to the Way. If you got good results, you believed positively. If not, you believed negatively. See? The magic always works.
I hope you will reconsider the self-indulgent urge to meddle in this person's life. If you want to fix somebody, buy a pet to practice on for 20 or 30 years.
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def59
The accounts of so many people who get into these alternative or deviant lifestyles due to abuse, addiction or lonliness are vast. So to say it is something that is intrinsic is balderdash.
To condemn someone to a destructive lifestyle because "they've always felt that way" is so evil, words fail me now. Many people in the homosexual life want out and want so desperately for someone to show them how.
The levels of abuse, alcoholism, drug use, obesity and other destructive behaviors is astounding, even in our tolerant culture.
People can't get over the guilt and if they do it generally means a searing of their conscience.
That being said, my comments earlier about the health risks lesbians face was really made out of compassion.
I am a diabetic, so I know the effects of lifestyle choices on my long-term well-being. It's the same with gays and lesbians. Their choices carry ramifications, to say otherwise is ignorant.
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satori001
def59, you seem to think it's your responsiblity, and within your ability (and by inference, that of your religion), to change people from homosexual to heterosexual.
You are talking about lifestyle, and you are talking about sexuality. Do not confuse the two. You are buying into the stereotypes, and the result is misunderstanding and ignorance, as demonstrated by some of your comments.
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mstar1
These levels are astounding everywhere----Do you have any stats to show that it is any different from heteroculture?
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Ham
Belle, if you see this.. please check your "PT"s this morning..
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
interesting thread to say the least
but here goes
moment of truth
i have read somewhere that at least 75% of people
men and woman have thought about having a homosexual experience
i have never done it but to be honest it has crossed my mind.
lighten up on gays folks they are real people just like us
i would rather have a gay couple as neighbors than
where shall we start
child molesters drug sellers
murders
you finish this list and all you gay bashers i hope a drug lord moves next door to you
then you would see that being gay ain't so bad
i know some both male and female and they are loving people
a sin is a sin period none is worse than the other
we have all sinned {my name spelled backwards by the way!]
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Second James
Satori...to answer your initial question..an emphatic no. I'm l00% horney male...not fulfilled unless I'm with "eve"...BUT could I be deceived somewhere along the line to be convinced to "try out a guy"?
If I were in doubt of who I was sexually because of a past expereince..then perhaps I would & could let my mind CONSIDER something that is "against nature " (I think the Bible refers to homo as "against nature" in Romans) Having truth at my disposal...I can clearly choose what to believe...so if a deception came along..I'd "run" to my Bible to find God's answer (at this point in my life)
Satori..have you ever seen the movie "What the Bleep do we know?"..one of its "statements" is how a person "rewires" themselves, as time goes on, and in the case of homo..I believe that people do "rewire" themselves..perhaps for the sake of sanity...or fulfilling lustful suggestions made in their minds..or experimentation...& yet I believe we have a god who can help "us" re-wire back to his original design. After all "Father Knows Best" ...he's the inventor of life...he knows what will bless his child , and we're the variable in the equation as to our obedience in what he's shown each of us.
You make valid points in regards to whether or not I am a minister or therapist or whatever else. I've NOT driven a wedge between this gal & myself by TWIT thinking & condemnation..otherwise she'd been long gone. My goal is to help in a way I can..and I've drawn the conclusion at least in my life that "God's word will do the work" if we let it..let it soak into ones heart & let God do his thing in helping her. I get that!
I don't mind you judging from your standpoint, as I've read many others who don't come from a biblical perspective..& right on..you make much sense..from a worldly perspective.. Just don't see much "Godly deliverance" from the carnal viewpoint ..thats all.
I don't side with those who condem..its of no value to point a finger..as sin is pretty prevalant, as most of you have pointed out...So is there no help? Or is no help necessary...the latter is what I hear alot of you saying..I just simply disagree. Love the US of A!! where we can believe what we want to ! :^)
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excathedra
i don't know..... i think danny said something about romans and its writer.....
regardless, i don't want to live this life trying to change someone, but that's me
i can't wait to meet god. i guess some of you already have
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Bramble
Exodus' success rate is in homosexuals staying celebate, or bi sexuals deciding to stick with the opposite sex. Their ability to change a homosexual into a heterosexual is non exsistant. Do some research!
Thye change behavior, not orientation.
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Galen
I admit that when I was a young adult, I experimented with homosexuality.
I found that I did not 'like' it. I prefer females.
'child molester' uh, well, according to culture this issue varies a great deal. Historically our culture allowed marriage with 'children' females, and in some limited states it still does.
'drug sellers' is a fairly new idea. My grandparents could purchase opium, heroin, codiene, and even marijuana Over-the-counter. When they passed away, we found a stash of opium poppy heads and seeds in their garden shed. They were members of their church, leaders of their community, and highly respected. They never left America, they had a farm before the Great Depression, taught grammar school, and later after the Great Depression they founded a church together, wrote a weekly column in the local newspaper, and were highly respected. Were they 'druggees'? Here in America beign a 'drug dealer' was not considered in any way a bad thing 100 years ago.
'murderers' LOL. Yes, we have many veterans all around us.
You quite likely already do have drug-sellers, child molesters, and murderers living all around you. AND thier children and their grand children.
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excathedra
hi galen, how are you ?
sometimes you confuse me
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
hi galen
sometimes you confuse me too
as i have told you i respect
your comments post etc
but perhaps you did not get my thought
i would rather have a raging gay couple as neighbors that a crack house
you will never get love from a crack house
but i bet if you had gay people next door they would be good neighbores.
i don't know this but it is a feeling i have
galen
beware i heard ther is a gay bar in bangor!@lol
galen i will be i brewer tommorow at the eagles club
i would love to meet you if you can find the time or if you are in maine now!!
peace
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Tom Strange
2nd James said:
I would take the stance that the "life ruiner" is because of the oppressive way that society treats them... I would also take the stance that it's RELIGION that judges them sinful practices... and it's society and religion that deals out the consequences...
myseestorEx... boys of that age, and I'm guessing children of that age range can be cruel... it will pass... I'm sure that he'll 'grow out of it'... he's got too good of an example not to...
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