Second, I would have to say all of the characters, when combined, form a whole person. Dorothy is the glue (or ego/super-ego) that binds them and causes them to move forward. As you point out, none were in a position to achieve their goal while staying (or rusting in the the Tin Man's case) right where they were. For that reason, I can find positive outcomes in my time with TWI. I'm not saying my time was positive or negative but trying to salvage the learning and growth from a period in my life. Growth, after all, can and often does come from adversity. Each of the characters realized their potential by being faced with the challenge of their journey. Again, as you said, they had it all along. The man behind the curtain simply pointed it out to them. Thankfully, he didn't try to crush it afterwards.
My question is: Why didn't Dorothy do the job instead of just worrying about herself? Talk about selfish!
They could have saved $100 on PFAL/Way class, more on the Intermediate, advanced class, DTA, DWA, BFC, etc...
Nice, laleo and JustThinking. You would have enjoyed being here this past season, as our town celebrated the 100th year of L. Frank Baum's book (and our 100-year old library) by having the whole town read The Wizard of Oz!
Don't forget the epitome of evil and fear, the Wicked Witch of the West. But she is easily undone with a little water (ooh, washing/drowning/baptism imagery!). Hoping all is going well for you along the road of yellow brick,
Yeah, we watched the WOO every year in January on Sunday night. Never got too into figuring it out. In TWI someone said it was devilish because it promoted good witches.
Quote...
In fact, by the time the movie is over, the viewer understands that it is the yellow brick road (the journey) that is sacred, not the Wizard, or even the Land of Oz, no matter how dazzling and attractive it appears.
Having the goal of going to the Wizard's castle got them to do their best, and, yes, Dorothy was the catalyst. In TWI we shared a language, an understanding, a goal, and getting classes together got us to do our best. We had a sense of purpose we never had in the world even though much of it was also an illusion.
Quote...
So what we have is a group of people who are already in possession of the things they most desire -- a home, a heart, courage, intelligence -- and set off in search of it, believing a holy man can offer these things as gifts. In the end, as dazzling, and attractive, and promising as Oz is, it is only an illusion.
The last time I saw it I noticed that in the last battle in the witch's castle it was the scarecrow (no brains???) who figured out that by cutting the rope the chandelier would fall on the witch's soldiers. So they had what they sought already like us in TWI.
Quote...
While most of us didn't arrive as quickly as did Dorothy in understanding the real (or, rather, imagined) force behind the promise of Oz, I wonder how many spent years in The Way in search of a home, or the courage to face life, or the intelligence to make use of the opportunities that are presented, or the heart to love life in spite of it all, or if any of that was even the main motivation for involvement, but, if so, whether it's since been found.
I could certainly relate to Dorothy as a youngster...As a kid,there was a highway that we used to often cross that for miles slowly rose into the horizon...We never took it,but I had always wanted to see the world on the other side of that horizon...
In Laleo's last paragraph about wondering how long people stayed in TWI in search of a home,I would say I probably stayed in it because I thought I found my home...After being out for umpteen years,I found myself once again looking for a place to hang my hat...I ran across g-spot and revisited my TWI years...It kinda reminded me of lyrics to a Pretenders song:
My last year in-rez was split up between Emporia and Rome City.
When we were in Emporia - it was horrible -long story - but it was the pits. Then, in December, we got to move to Rome City and it was great.
A few of us likened it to Dorothy leaving Kansas (harsh, gray, farmwork, Gerald was Miz. Gulch!) to go to the land of Oz! When we arrived, there was a banquet waiting for us! There were munchkins (the kids!!!!) and of course, Del was the Wizard!! Unfortunately, it was only temporary, and after 5 months we had to go back to Kansas.
*sigh* I think Dorothy learned more than I did.
Hope R. color>size>face>
...I don't know who I am but life is for learning... we are stardust...size>face>color>
While some considered TWI home, I met one person who was more specific. HQ was home to her as she had been on staff for many years. (Arrived as a teen at TWI, now MUCH older) She was a corps grad (may still be) who truly felt that was her only home. What will she do when she is old? They won't keep her there so she'll find herself like the man in the Tom Petty song? How sad.
Even Dorothy got to go home. Where will she go? You can blame her, say it was her choice but you can't take away the tragedy.
Hey, I just wondered, are those your thoughts or did you get part of the analogies out of the Clift Notes or something similar?
But, the Oz destination, yes, I think I was trying to arrive someplace while in the way, but never really knew where that place WAS. I suppose I thought I would become more spiritual as I continued in their programs and for some reason thought THAT would make me more something. LOL! It all seems so strange now that I look back on it.
All I can say is that at least Dorothy KNEW where she wanted to go and that was back home with the ones she loved. It took me many more years to finally figure that one out (only kidding). Even though I LOVE my family and am much closer to them now, I really don't want to live near them. But the part about being grateful for them, I'm finally getting. It was a revelation for me to wake up one day and realize that my family, regardless of their imperfections and critical spirits, were probably the only people on earth who love(d) me unconditionally.
WB
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
quote:Hey, I just wondered, are those your thoughts or did you get part of the analogies out of the Clift Notes or something similar?
waterbuffalo: It's more like a hodgepodge of recollections. I'd take credit for it, except I don't have too many original thoughts, so I'm sure at some point it all originated elsewhere. I'm just not sure where exactly, or else I would cite my sources.
By the way, I just checked out both CliffNotes and SparkNotes, and neither offers a critique. However, there was a thread at the CliffNotes site that basically took a Marxist view of the imagery, but they have the different characters representing slightly different aspects of the Populist movement than what I wrote above, probably because I was making it up as I went. I don't really buy the Marxist interpretation for the reasons I stated, so I wasn't too concerned with making it all fit like a hand in a glove. The movie doesn't end in uprising, or any call for social change, as I recall it. It's more of a coming-of-age tale, with Dorothy finding, then accepting, her role as it is defined by history and tradition.
I left out some characters, like the witches (were there two evil ones -- the East and West -- and one good one, or am I confused? How many witches in all?), and even the Wizard, because I remember them as two-dimensional, with obvious and stereotypical roles, to serve as a backdrop for the main characters: those who underwent some sort of transformation during the course of the movie. That's also why I think of this movie as a study in community, since four characters underwent significant change. While JustThinking may have a good point that together they make up one individual, I tend to think of it as an illustration of community -- how a group of imperfect individuals can comprise an (almost) perfect whole. Toto, as a minor character, might be worth mentioning simply because it was Dorothy's efforts to save him that both started her on her journey, and aided her in her efforts to return home. Like shaz mentioned above, I think there is a lot in the movie to support a Christian interpretation.
How about you? Do you have another interpretation?
quote:Growth, after all, can and often does come from adversity.
JustThinking: Do you think of your years(?) in The Way as a period of adversity? I've sometimes thought of it as the wrong road taken, but maybe it was all part of the path after all. In fact, I'm grateful that I didn't spend my entire life drifting in the ordinariness of it all. All those dreams and the disillusionment that followed may have had an upside. When you take a risk like that, and fail, and pick yourself back up again, other risks aren't as intimidating. For me, that's been a good thing, if only because I'm not comfortable staying in my comfort zone.
As far as your friend goes, you're right you can't take away the tragedy. But you can be there for her, if you're inclined to. And, really, that's probably just about all any of us can do for the other.
johniam: I was right there with you until you said, "Getting classes together got us to do our best." How so?
Great lyrics, Hope. Yours, too, Simon. In my more wistful moments, I wish I could find Ohio again, too. But it was never there. Or was it? Something was there. What?
Laleo: Well, it seems to me now that 'word over the world' WAS our yellow brick road. Every meeting, every class, every retemory, every corps principle, everything was designed to make us better at moving the word (getting classes together). Perhaps it would be better to say that 'word over the world' was the wizard's castle and moving the word was our yellow brick road.
I mean, they had our whole day planned out for us. Wake up, SIT, pray, study the word, work/witness/work, witness, fellowship, once a wow always a wow, committment beyond your lifetime.....the fun never ends.
So to answer your question, "getting classes together" was a summarization of doing whatever a "committed believer" did to move the word every day.
Thanks for commenting on you how you came to your thoughts on this movie...kinda thought it might be a combination of different sources which shaped 'em. You put them together very nicely. Thank you.
I DO think of it as a Christian theme...just how the characters interacted and helped each other and formed a "family" and were even hindered by a devil-witch (ww of the west) and helped by an angel-witch (glenda).
For some reason I'm reminded of another movie with the same " formed family" theme,The Outlaw Josey Wales , which is also one of my favorites.
WB
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
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JustThinking
Laleo,
First, very well said. You have a way with prose.
Second, I would have to say all of the characters, when combined, form a whole person. Dorothy is the glue (or ego/super-ego) that binds them and causes them to move forward. As you point out, none were in a position to achieve their goal while staying (or rusting in the the Tin Man's case) right where they were. For that reason, I can find positive outcomes in my time with TWI. I'm not saying my time was positive or negative but trying to salvage the learning and growth from a period in my life. Growth, after all, can and often does come from adversity. Each of the characters realized their potential by being faced with the challenge of their journey. Again, as you said, they had it all along. The man behind the curtain simply pointed it out to them. Thankfully, he didn't try to crush it afterwards.
My question is: Why didn't Dorothy do the job instead of just worrying about herself? Talk about selfish!
They could have saved $100 on PFAL/Way class, more on the Intermediate, advanced class, DTA, DWA, BFC, etc...
;-)
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shazdancer
Nice, laleo and JustThinking. You would have enjoyed being here this past season, as our town celebrated the 100th year of L. Frank Baum's book (and our 100-year old library) by having the whole town read The Wizard of Oz!
Don't forget the epitome of evil and fear, the Wicked Witch of the West. But she is easily undone with a little water (ooh, washing/drowning/baptism imagery!). Hoping all is going well for you along the road of yellow brick,
Shaz
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johniam
Yeah, we watched the WOO every year in January on Sunday night. Never got too into figuring it out. In TWI someone said it was devilish because it promoted good witches.
Quote...
In fact, by the time the movie is over, the viewer understands that it is the yellow brick road (the journey) that is sacred, not the Wizard, or even the Land of Oz, no matter how dazzling and attractive it appears.
Having the goal of going to the Wizard's castle got them to do their best, and, yes, Dorothy was the catalyst. In TWI we shared a language, an understanding, a goal, and getting classes together got us to do our best. We had a sense of purpose we never had in the world even though much of it was also an illusion.
Quote...
So what we have is a group of people who are already in possession of the things they most desire -- a home, a heart, courage, intelligence -- and set off in search of it, believing a holy man can offer these things as gifts. In the end, as dazzling, and attractive, and promising as Oz is, it is only an illusion.
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johniam
Oops, hit the wrong button.
The last time I saw it I noticed that in the last battle in the witch's castle it was the scarecrow (no brains???) who figured out that by cutting the rope the chandelier would fall on the witch's soldiers. So they had what they sought already like us in TWI.
Quote...
While most of us didn't arrive as quickly as did Dorothy in understanding the real (or, rather, imagined) force behind the promise of Oz, I wonder how many spent years in The Way in search of a home, or the courage to face life, or the intelligence to make use of the opportunities that are presented, or the heart to love life in spite of it all, or if any of that was even the main motivation for involvement, but, if so, whether it's since been found.
Lot of substance in this comparison, laleo.
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ItsStillTheWord
If I ...
were King...
of the Foresssssesssssesssssessssst!
OZ - The promised land of the prevailing whatever.
Wicked witch - guess who
Tin Man (no heart) - BOD
Scarecrow (no brain) - TWI leadership
Cowardly lion - believers afraid to speak up.
Dorothy - Innies looking to get out.
Toto - Faithful, stayed with Dorothy through it all.
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simonzelotes
Interesting thoughts...Interesting parallels....
I could certainly relate to Dorothy as a youngster...As a kid,there was a highway that we used to often cross that for miles slowly rose into the horizon...We never took it,but I had always wanted to see the world on the other side of that horizon...
In Laleo's last paragraph about wondering how long people stayed in TWI in search of a home,I would say I probably stayed in it because I thought I found my home...After being out for umpteen years,I found myself once again looking for a place to hang my hat...I ran across g-spot and revisited my TWI years...It kinda reminded me of lyrics to a Pretenders song:
I went back to Ohio
But my family was gone
I stood on the back porch
There was nobody home
I was stunned and amazed
My childhood memories
Saw this world past
Like the wind through the trees
Ay! Oh! where did you go,Ohio
So,I guess it's back to the yellow brick road....
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Tom Strange
but simonzeeloaded... wasn't it you that said: "home is where the heart is"..... ?
... I've been here and I've been there and I've been in between...
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Hope R.
Funny laleo -
My last year in-rez was split up between Emporia and Rome City.
When we were in Emporia - it was horrible -long story - but it was the pits. Then, in December, we got to move to Rome City and it was great.
A few of us likened it to Dorothy leaving Kansas (harsh, gray, farmwork, Gerald was Miz. Gulch!) to go to the land of Oz! When we arrived, there was a banquet waiting for us! There were munchkins (the kids!!!!) and of course, Del was the Wizard!! Unfortunately, it was only temporary, and after 5 months we had to go back to Kansas.
*sigh* I think Dorothy learned more than I did.
Hope R. color>size>face>
...I don't know who I am but life is for learning... we are stardust...size>face>color>
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JustThinking
While some considered TWI home, I met one person who was more specific. HQ was home to her as she had been on staff for many years. (Arrived as a teen at TWI, now MUCH older) She was a corps grad (may still be) who truly felt that was her only home. What will she do when she is old? They won't keep her there so she'll find herself like the man in the Tom Petty song? How sad.
Even Dorothy got to go home. Where will she go? You can blame her, say it was her choice but you can't take away the tragedy.
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ItsStillTheWord
Funny thing is didn't Dorothy's journey start with a knock on the head?
"Follow the Yellow Brick Road" = "Take the Class"
Munchkins = Piffle grads
Red shoes = TWI nametag
Poppies...Poppies will stop them...
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ItsStillTheWord
Hope,
Didn't you post some lyrics you wrote to the tune of "If I Only Had A Brain" a while back ?
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ItsStillTheWord
Another good parallel is that Dorothy's experiences turned out to be a dream - IF TWI turns out to be a dream then..I'm still 19!!!
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waterbuffalo
Laleo,
Hi! Wonderful subject for discussion.
Hey, I just wondered, are those your thoughts or did you get part of the analogies out of the Clift Notes or something similar?
But, the Oz destination, yes, I think I was trying to arrive someplace while in the way, but never really knew where that place WAS. I suppose I thought I would become more spiritual as I continued in their programs and for some reason thought THAT would make me more something. LOL! It all seems so strange now that I look back on it.
All I can say is that at least Dorothy KNEW where she wanted to go and that was back home with the ones she loved. It took me many more years to finally figure that one out (only kidding). Even though I LOVE my family and am much closer to them now, I really don't want to live near them. But the part about being grateful for them, I'm finally getting. It was a revelation for me to wake up one day and realize that my family, regardless of their imperfections and critical spirits, were probably the only people on earth who love(d) me unconditionally.
WB
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
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waterbuffalo
We can only hope!
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
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Hope R.
ISTW... yeah - and Rafe wrote one for the heart... don't remember if anyone did it for the "noive"
I Only Have Way Brain
I would smile through all the teachings
While sitting in straight seating
I never would complain
And I?d learn to shoot a rifle
and become a great disciple
?cause I only have Way Brain.
I?d unravel a translation
without an education,
I never would explain!
For a decent explanation
may stir up inner frustration
?cause you only have Way Brain
Oh I will tell you why
Je-sus can?t be God
that the dead are dead and churches are a fraud
and then I?ll YELL
and you?ll applaud!!!
I would be extraordinary
no one would be contrary
to wisdom I have gained
I?d do things that are illegal
ain?t it grand to be so regal !
?cause I only have Way Brain
Imagine me, the designee!!
The mantle I will wear
then the man of God will pour oil on my hair
And then I?ll dance - without a care!
And I?ll think I?m sheer perfection
not subject to inspection
for decades I will reign!
I doubt I?ll be discovered
for I think my sins are covered
?cause I only have Way Brain.
*obviously sung to the tune of "If I Only Had a Brain" with apologies to E.H. Harburg and Harold Arlensize>
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Hope R.
double post because of the funny message from infopoop
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ItsStillTheWord
Brilliant!!
Thanks Hope.
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JustThinking
Ah..to be 19 again. I did have a heart, thought I had courage and won't even claim to have had a brain.
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laleo
waterbuffalo: It's more like a hodgepodge of recollections. I'd take credit for it, except I don't have too many original thoughts, so I'm sure at some point it all originated elsewhere. I'm just not sure where exactly, or else I would cite my sources.
By the way, I just checked out both CliffNotes and SparkNotes, and neither offers a critique. However, there was a thread at the CliffNotes site that basically took a Marxist view of the imagery, but they have the different characters representing slightly different aspects of the Populist movement than what I wrote above, probably because I was making it up as I went. I don't really buy the Marxist interpretation for the reasons I stated, so I wasn't too concerned with making it all fit like a hand in a glove. The movie doesn't end in uprising, or any call for social change, as I recall it. It's more of a coming-of-age tale, with Dorothy finding, then accepting, her role as it is defined by history and tradition.
I left out some characters, like the witches (were there two evil ones -- the East and West -- and one good one, or am I confused? How many witches in all?), and even the Wizard, because I remember them as two-dimensional, with obvious and stereotypical roles, to serve as a backdrop for the main characters: those who underwent some sort of transformation during the course of the movie. That's also why I think of this movie as a study in community, since four characters underwent significant change. While JustThinking may have a good point that together they make up one individual, I tend to think of it as an illustration of community -- how a group of imperfect individuals can comprise an (almost) perfect whole. Toto, as a minor character, might be worth mentioning simply because it was Dorothy's efforts to save him that both started her on her journey, and aided her in her efforts to return home. Like shaz mentioned above, I think there is a lot in the movie to support a Christian interpretation.
How about you? Do you have another interpretation?
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laleo
JustThinking: Do you think of your years(?) in The Way as a period of adversity? I've sometimes thought of it as the wrong road taken, but maybe it was all part of the path after all. In fact, I'm grateful that I didn't spend my entire life drifting in the ordinariness of it all. All those dreams and the disillusionment that followed may have had an upside. When you take a risk like that, and fail, and pick yourself back up again, other risks aren't as intimidating. For me, that's been a good thing, if only because I'm not comfortable staying in my comfort zone.
As far as your friend goes, you're right you can't take away the tragedy. But you can be there for her, if you're inclined to. And, really, that's probably just about all any of us can do for the other.
johniam: I was right there with you until you said, "Getting classes together got us to do our best." How so?
Great lyrics, Hope. Yours, too, Simon. In my more wistful moments, I wish I could find Ohio again, too. But it was never there. Or was it? Something was there. What?
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QamiQazi
laleo, good thread.
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johniam
Laleo: Well, it seems to me now that 'word over the world' WAS our yellow brick road. Every meeting, every class, every retemory, every corps principle, everything was designed to make us better at moving the word (getting classes together). Perhaps it would be better to say that 'word over the world' was the wizard's castle and moving the word was our yellow brick road.
I mean, they had our whole day planned out for us. Wake up, SIT, pray, study the word, work/witness/work, witness, fellowship, once a wow always a wow, committment beyond your lifetime.....the fun never ends.
So to answer your question, "getting classes together" was a summarization of doing whatever a "committed believer" did to move the word every day.
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What The Hay
Ahhh yes... sayin' goodbye to the yellow brick road!
Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
When are you gonna come down
When are you going to land
I should have stayed on the farm
I should have listened to my old man
You know you can't hold me forever
I didn't sign up with you
I'm not a present for your friends to open
This boy's too young to be singing the blues
So goodbye yellow brick road
Where the dogs of society howl
You can't plant me in your penthouse
I'm going back to my plough
Back to the howling old owl in the woods
Hunting the horny back toad
Oh I've finally decided my future lies
Beyond the yellow brick road
What do you think you'll do then
I bet that'll shoot down your plane
It'll take you a couple of vodka and tonics
To set you on your feet again
Maybe you'll get a replacement
There's plenty like me to be found
Mongrels who ain't got a penny
Sniffing for tidbits like you on the ground
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waterbuffalo
Laleo,
Thanks for commenting on you how you came to your thoughts on this movie...kinda thought it might be a combination of different sources which shaped 'em. You put them together very nicely. Thank you.
I DO think of it as a Christian theme...just how the characters interacted and helped each other and formed a "family" and were even hindered by a devil-witch (ww of the west) and helped by an angel-witch (glenda).
For some reason I'm reminded of another movie with the same " formed family" theme,The Outlaw Josey Wales , which is also one of my favorites.
WB
"[if] there were none who were discontented with what they have, the world would never reach for anything better." Florence Nightingale
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