We go to a Methodist Church with a really awesome youth group for our 11 (soon to be 12) year old. The Methodists are rather liberal, won't throw out the bathe water with the baby type. Actually, it was our tweenager who really wanted to go to church which made us decide to go back to something.
I got involved in a bible study last year called Disciple and am helping to run it this year. It gave me a brand-new prospective and respect for things unknown and a conviction for things known. At least I can add my two cents without being judged. :D-->
These forums do not enable me to quote someone, but thanks to the person who said they prayed over the phone book. I did that the other night and like you, I was Pentecostal but felt drawn to a Presby church (PCA). I talked to the pastor the next day and we had a nice conversation. Looking forward to going there on Sunday. :)--> Thing is, I probably never would think that church was an option, but what I'm hearing here changed my thinking to at least consider it.
Jan
Jan
Although I currently attend a Calvinistic Baptist church (that is not affiliated with any Baptist convention or group of churches), a PCA church I attended for a couple years impacted me more than any other, due to the God’s-sovereignty-and-grace message of the church’s teaching elder (its minister) and interaction I had with him and a guy who was a quite broadly capable armchair theologian.
The doctrine of unconditional election (held high in the PCA) runs hard against assumptions about God generally held by Wayfers and ex-Wayfers. In considering it, I recommend reading The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, by Loraine Boettner (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/boettner/predest.pdf ). I found Boettner’s following argument inescapably compelling:
“A further important proof that Paul taught the doctrine which Calvinists have understood him to teach is found in the objections which he put in the mouths of his opponents,—that it represented God as unrighteous: ‘Is there unrighteousness with God?’ Rom. 9:14; and, that it destroyed man's responsibility: ‘Thou wilt then say unto me, Why doth He still find fault? For who withistandeth His will?’ Rom. 9:19. These are the very objections which today, on first thought, spring into men's minds, in opposition to the Calvinistic doctrine of Predestination; but they have not even the least plausibility when directed against the Arminian doctrine. A doctrine which does not afford the least grounds for these objections cannot have been the one that the Apostle taught.â€
Qualities of a "Safe Church" taken from "Safe People" by Cloud and Townsend.
Grace is preached from the pulpit and is the foundation for how people are to be treated.
Truth is preached without compromise, but also without a spirit of law and judgment.
The church leaders are aware of their own weaknesses and need to grow and are open about their hurt, pain, failings, and humanity.
Instead of "having it all together" and being insulated from confrontation and change, they are in a process of healing and opening up to their own safe people for support and accountability.
The church uses small groups to touch people’s lives, and sermons focus on community in the body of Christ as well as doctrine.
The culture is one of forgiven sinners, not self-righteous religious Pharisees.
The church, instead of being a self-contained unit and thinking it has all the answers, is networked into the community, availing itself of input from other sources such as churches, professionals, and organizations.
The teaching has a relational emphasis as well as a vertical one. Relationship between people is seen as part of spirituality as well as relationship to God.
The teaching sees brokenness, struggle, and inability as normal parts of the sanctification process.
=====================================
I liked most of these ideas. It helped me a lot when I moved away and wasn't able to go to CVCF. I ended up at a church where the pastor was very judgmental and worked people like dogs. We did not find this out until we were preparing for our wedding at his church.
He had a lot to say about people if they decided to not attend his church after checking it out. He married us, and at our rehearsal, he made comments about a close friend who was preparing the reception dinner. She decided to go to another church. He made snide comments in front of my whole family.
We later confronted him about his comments. His only response was "I'm sorry you were offended." That sealed it for us. We didn't want his church either. He pleaded with us to stay. We tried to explain that he should have been sorry for the comment he made in public about a person. He never did apologize for that. "I'm sorry you were offended" or "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt" doesn't claim to any wrongs done.
I think that my life was "saved" after leaving the way, by becoming a normal Christian who attends church.
I'm not being flippant, I really mean it.
Ever since I was a child, I had this hunger in me, to draw close to God. While in TWI, I think that desire was almost killed by all the rule and regs we had to follow.
When I finally broke free of the box, I found my sancutary in others who had the same desire to know Him.
A church is not made up of the building, or the rules and regs one is required to follow, or even "right doctrine." But pilgrims on the same path. Our relationships with others who have the same relationship with our Saviour, is my true haven.
Sorry to be preachy, but there is so much more to "fellowship" than the way ever knew. :)-->
The culture is one of forgiven sinners, not self-righteous religious Pharisees.
The church, instead of being a self-contained unit and thinking it has all the answers, is networked into the community, availing itself of input from other sources such as churches, professionals, and organizations.
These two points hit me really hard after leaving twi. This church which promotes this is the first church I made "home" after shopping for one for awhile.
There is nothing wrong with being a forgiven sinner. TWI seemed to forget that totally. In twi we sinned before we got "born again" and then we were perfect after that. Nobody even admitted to breaking fellowship. The reality is that we all screw up, and we all need forgiveness more than once after we get born again. This was a hard reality pill for me to swallow.
Also not being a self-contained unit with all the answers....HELLO!!! This is totally twi's attitude. They know so much and have all the answers so they don't need any other unit to give them some ideas. TWI should get off it's high horse with it's spearhead of truth BS and get some humility. But then again, it will be a cold day in hell before that happens. Or would that be hades or gehenna?? See I don't even care because you know what I am trying to convey.
Ever since I was a child, I had this hunger in me, to draw close to God. While in TWI, I think that desire was almost killed by all the rule and regs we had to follow.
When I finally broke free of the box, I found my sancutary in others who had the same desire to know Him.
Isn't it so funny to think that a lot of people got stuck in twi because they thought it wasn't a religion. But it is a huge religion, not a recognized one, but it is one. It's full of formulas, which are no different than repeating the rosary a million times.
I had this moment while I was on Staff where I was watching a commercial on TV advertising a praise and worship CD. At that point in my life, I started realizing I wanted and needed more to know Him. I hadn't known Him, and I had fooled myself by twi's doctrine that I had all I needed.
At that time in my life, I had been surrounded by hundreds of like-minded people, yet I felt so lonely. It took the Lord a few more years to actually prick my heart hard enough to really search for my heart's desire. I left twi 1 1/2 years after I left HQ. Being at HQ opened up my eyes a lot. I went through a lot and put up with a lot. I really think had I not done that, I would have never made the decision to leave.
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....and the church of working late, overinvolvement, football, wrestling,fundraisers...LOL!!
Jan
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irisheyes
We go to a Methodist Church with a really awesome youth group for our 11 (soon to be 12) year old. The Methodists are rather liberal, won't throw out the bathe water with the baby type. Actually, it was our tweenager who really wanted to go to church which made us decide to go back to something.
I got involved in a bible study last year called Disciple and am helping to run it this year. It gave me a brand-new prospective and respect for things unknown and a conviction for things known. At least I can add my two cents without being judged.
:D-->
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Cynic
Although I currently attend a Calvinistic Baptist church (that is not affiliated with any Baptist convention or group of churches), a PCA church I attended for a couple years impacted me more than any other, due to the God’s-sovereignty-and-grace message of the church’s teaching elder (its minister) and interaction I had with him and a guy who was a quite broadly capable armchair theologian.
The doctrine of unconditional election (held high in the PCA) runs hard against assumptions about God generally held by Wayfers and ex-Wayfers. In considering it, I recommend reading The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination, by Loraine Boettner (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/boettner/predest.pdf ). I found Boettner’s following argument inescapably compelling:
“A further important proof that Paul taught the doctrine which Calvinists have understood him to teach is found in the objections which he put in the mouths of his opponents,—that it represented God as unrighteous: ‘Is there unrighteousness with God?’ Rom. 9:14; and, that it destroyed man's responsibility: ‘Thou wilt then say unto me, Why doth He still find fault? For who withistandeth His will?’ Rom. 9:19. These are the very objections which today, on first thought, spring into men's minds, in opposition to the Calvinistic doctrine of Predestination; but they have not even the least plausibility when directed against the Arminian doctrine. A doctrine which does not afford the least grounds for these objections cannot have been the one that the Apostle taught.â€
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Nottawayfer
What's a Safe Church? Here's some things on that:
Qualities of a "Safe Church" taken from "Safe People" by Cloud and Townsend.
Grace is preached from the pulpit and is the foundation for how people are to be treated.
Truth is preached without compromise, but also without a spirit of law and judgment.
The church leaders are aware of their own weaknesses and need to grow and are open about their hurt, pain, failings, and humanity.
Instead of "having it all together" and being insulated from confrontation and change, they are in a process of healing and opening up to their own safe people for support and accountability.
The church uses small groups to touch people’s lives, and sermons focus on community in the body of Christ as well as doctrine.
The culture is one of forgiven sinners, not self-righteous religious Pharisees.
The church, instead of being a self-contained unit and thinking it has all the answers, is networked into the community, availing itself of input from other sources such as churches, professionals, and organizations.
The teaching has a relational emphasis as well as a vertical one. Relationship between people is seen as part of spirituality as well as relationship to God.
The teaching sees brokenness, struggle, and inability as normal parts of the sanctification process.
=====================================
I liked most of these ideas. It helped me a lot when I moved away and wasn't able to go to CVCF. I ended up at a church where the pastor was very judgmental and worked people like dogs. We did not find this out until we were preparing for our wedding at his church.
He had a lot to say about people if they decided to not attend his church after checking it out. He married us, and at our rehearsal, he made comments about a close friend who was preparing the reception dinner. She decided to go to another church. He made snide comments in front of my whole family.
We later confronted him about his comments. His only response was "I'm sorry you were offended." That sealed it for us. We didn't want his church either. He pleaded with us to stay. We tried to explain that he should have been sorry for the comment he made in public about a person. He never did apologize for that. "I'm sorry you were offended" or "I'm sorry your feelings were hurt" doesn't claim to any wrongs done.
We found a better church after that.
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ex10
Thanks for posting this, Wayfer Not.
I think that my life was "saved" after leaving the way, by becoming a normal Christian who attends church.
I'm not being flippant, I really mean it.
Ever since I was a child, I had this hunger in me, to draw close to God. While in TWI, I think that desire was almost killed by all the rule and regs we had to follow.
When I finally broke free of the box, I found my sancutary in others who had the same desire to know Him.
A church is not made up of the building, or the rules and regs one is required to follow, or even "right doctrine." But pilgrims on the same path. Our relationships with others who have the same relationship with our Saviour, is my true haven.
Sorry to be preachy, but there is so much more to "fellowship" than the way ever knew.
:)-->
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Nottawayfer
These two points hit me really hard after leaving twi. This church which promotes this is the first church I made "home" after shopping for one for awhile.
There is nothing wrong with being a forgiven sinner. TWI seemed to forget that totally. In twi we sinned before we got "born again" and then we were perfect after that. Nobody even admitted to breaking fellowship. The reality is that we all screw up, and we all need forgiveness more than once after we get born again. This was a hard reality pill for me to swallow.
Also not being a self-contained unit with all the answers....HELLO!!! This is totally twi's attitude. They know so much and have all the answers so they don't need any other unit to give them some ideas. TWI should get off it's high horse with it's spearhead of truth BS and get some humility. But then again, it will be a cold day in hell before that happens. Or would that be hades or gehenna?? See I don't even care because you know what I am trying to convey.
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Nottawayfer
Isn't it so funny to think that a lot of people got stuck in twi because they thought it wasn't a religion. But it is a huge religion, not a recognized one, but it is one. It's full of formulas, which are no different than repeating the rosary a million times.
I had this moment while I was on Staff where I was watching a commercial on TV advertising a praise and worship CD. At that point in my life, I started realizing I wanted and needed more to know Him. I hadn't known Him, and I had fooled myself by twi's doctrine that I had all I needed.
At that time in my life, I had been surrounded by hundreds of like-minded people, yet I felt so lonely. It took the Lord a few more years to actually prick my heart hard enough to really search for my heart's desire. I left twi 1 1/2 years after I left HQ. Being at HQ opened up my eyes a lot. I went through a lot and put up with a lot. I really think had I not done that, I would have never made the decision to leave.
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