Oldies and possibly a few others can only seem to view TWI in light of thier own experience.
As far as Oldies is concerned, your personal experience is meaningless, didn't really happen (or you are lying about it), if it contradicts his experience (real or imagined).
Why waste your keystrokes?
True on all counts.
But I would add this:
His constant, unbending and arrogant dismissal of most things evil directly due to TWI really shows the whole world what kind of .... we really had to put up with.
Put someone like this in a position with authority, and you've got some REAL problems.
Not that I was exactly a "saint" either..
A couple of people on this board could probably tell horror stories about me.. and I never had any appointment higher than twig coordinator.
In a lot of ways, I was just the same. Good grief.. I hope I'm getting better..
Seems some people would try to throw the darn gun in the bay and pretend it never existed to begin with. "What shooting? I don't know nuttin.."
I retired in 2002 right after they lifted the Afghanistan stop-loss. But all of mine was active, so that's the difference. And, yes, I was subject to recall for 2 years as you would be.
I personally was disgusted, revolted, and appalled doing the Noble Eagle (Kosovo) stuff. And am still ashamed for having anything to do with it. So I sympathize with you. But, ya gotta follow orders. I hope you aren't having to do anything as horrible as what we had to do to the Serbs while you're over there. (Although for OPSEC you won't be able to say, I recognize)
Great insights by rascal, mr hamm, WW, many others...
Another thought re TWI's practices/actions/behaviors/deeds....
This thread gets to the heart of the Peeler v. The Way International litigation.
Whether exit-phobia induction such that almost everyone was afraid to leave TWI, sexual abuse of Way followers by VPW or LCM, child abuse & pedophilia by TWI twig/branch/limb leaders, or a host of other TWI destructive behaviors, essentially all fall under the TWI-formalized practices of covert Undue Influence, known by many other terms,under which all of us ex-twi have suffered:
Coercive persuasion that is by design covert, subtle, fluid, & insidious
Thought reform without informed consent
Psychological coercion
Thought struggle
Debility, dependency, & dread
Unfreezing, changing, & refreezing of one’s mind
Exploitative mental manipulation
Mind control
Unethical influence via manipulation of normal automatic responding
Manipulation of human responses of consistency, reciprocity, social proof, authority, liking, & scarcity
Inducing cognitive dissonance & then exploiting via manipulation of behavior / information / thought /emotional control
Manipulation of transient vulnerabilities
Manipulation of guilt
Manipulation of exit phobia
Exploitative persuasion
Post-cultic PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder)
Exploitative manipulation of psychosocial group dynamics
Systematic manipulation of psychological and social influence
Coordinated programs of coercive influence and behavioral control
Naturalistic conversational trance induction via anchoring, indirection, implication, & implantation of ‘suggestions’
Packaged persuasion
Manipulative calculated persuasion procedures to induce ‘commitment’
Destruction of the true, historical self-identity & replacing it with a cult-originated pseudo-self & pseudo-identity, sogwap
Destabilization of a person’s general reality orientation
Covert strategies and techniques to keep recruits & members unaware of the cult’s double agenda : terrorism core glazed w/ fake love
Promoting mind-numbing techniques such as the supposed ‘renewing of the mind,’ & confabulated ‘speaking in tongues’
Exploitative persuasion via ‘proof through reframing,’ a counterfeit process of positive reinterpretation to validate twi’s practices
Relaxation-induced anxiety via continual glossolalia (SIT much in your private prayer life)
Guided imagery
Indirect directives
Personal historical revision under cult pressure
Peer pressure & modeling
Many others too numerous to mention
The Greasespot forum hopefully confers some healing & hope for those irreversibly harmed by TWI.
This thread, among other forum expositions, gets to the heart of the Peeler v. The Way International litigation.
It is always encouraging when ex-twi's take personal initiative to promote & support this litigation which will hopefully rid the world of the contamination which is TWI.
Let's not allow TWI to continue to hide behind the false issue of First Amendment religioius beliefs when the real issue is their destructive practices/behaviors/actions/deeds!
Why allow cowardly TWI to contine to cower under the skirts of Lady Liberty, with the assistance of $1,000/hour defense attorneys?
JKBoehme....welcome to gspot and thank you for the well thought out....if REALLY LONG post
You are 100 percent right on in you remarks, but a bit toooooooooo much for one post (imo.)
Preparing for the Allen suit against twi....I remember having a conversation with their attorney, Larry Levy. His main concern with twi policies, procedures and practices was their complete and total, UNDUE INFLUENCE (actual legally accepted term) in the lives of their followers.
Undue influence includes, abortion under duress, divorce under duress, financial support under duress, and among others, familial abandonment under duress.
For those posters that conclude that actions taken without an PHYSICAL GUN to your head do not equate to REAL gun to your head.....ya'll need to look into the legalities of coercion and blackmail.
Thanks for bringing these points up JKB.....you are new and dont seem to have a dog in this fight, maybe your input will bring some new understanding.
2 years subject to recall? Man o man! They getcha comin' and goin' don't they.
It reminds me of a statement made in a movie by a computer. The movie 'war games' (I think?). The statement 'the only winning move, is not to play.'
Brother Speed,
That was the standard. Still is, as you know.
They could in theory still recall me, but that would be a mistake (old, fat, and out of shape)
But it was largely fun. I can truly say that I mostly had fun until Kosovo. And that includes the deployments and the hours. The target lists were wrong. See, I worked at the operational headquarters and had TONS of additional LOAC training than most people have because we had to do the targeting for all the theater's air wings. The target list was designed to take the country (Serbia) down. Not proportional response (I know you are aware of that term's meaning).
Even if, at the moment, life stinks living in a tent and being a$$-high in mud, if you believe you're doing the right thing, it was worth it. Hardships weren't so important. But if you believe you're doing the wrong thing, that's when it gets incredibly long.
After being involved with Kosovo, it wasn't fun anymore. And I made up my mind to get out as soon as I could after my 20. (And now have a great job and so on)
So I don't regret it at all (except that one thing)...
Thankyou JKBoehme, it has taken over ten years to start putting the pieces together and begin to understand how wrong what happened is....your post articulates the methods of manipulation and control much clearer than I can.
-----------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jkboehme:
It is always encouraging when ex-twi's take personal initiative to promote & support this litigation which will hopefully rid the world of the contamination which is TWI.
TWI is well-versed in how to manipulate people and hold them captive, using any and all of the techniques jkboehme describes. TWI pried into the private details of our family’s health and finances and used intimidation techniques to try to manipulate and control not only us, but others in their own best interests.
During Rock of Ages in August of 1995, I fell in an unmarked uncovered trench and broke my left ankle on grounds of The Way International. I was detained for several hours in their “Third Aid†office, until they actually located someone from my home fellowship who would accompany me to the hospital. However, if they would have just given me a ride on a cushman to my car, I could have driven myself to the hospital hours earlier, because my driving foot was not affected.
But because my injury happened on their grounds, in an uncovered and unmarked trench in an area they KNEW would be traveled that week by thousands of people, they wanted to control my access to health care: who gave it, and when. I had to sit there for several hours just waiting for one of their doctors to show up, who I knew would not be able to do anything other than to suggest an X-ray, which TWI was not capable of doing in their trailer. They refused to allow me to leave or give me a ride to my car so I could drive myself to the local hospital.
When I finally did get to the hospital, the break in my ankle was misdiagnosed as a sprain. Later on in the Cleveland area, when my ankle was not healing, whenever I went to Corps meetings the leadership kept staring at the ankle brace I had to wear. Mxrk Wxllace and Chxryl Wxtson got together and suggested that my ankle was not healing because I “needed to lose weight,†and Wxtson suggested I go on a “rice diet†and use her stationary bicycle to exercise.
I knew first of all that a total carbohydrate diet for three weeks was not in the best interest of my health, and I told them I was already following a diet prescribed by my doctor. Needless to say, this was not well-received. They then insisted I take the bicycle and use it to rehabilitate my ankle, and exercise to lose weight. I told them I didn’t want it.
You should have been there to feel the room freeze over.
I later relented because of all the pressure to obey my leadership. They brought the bike over to my house, and when I tried to use it, my ankle hurt. I continued trying to use the bike for a couple of weeks, but my ankle was getting worse and not getting better with it, so I stopped using it and asked them to come and get the bike. Later during the confrontation that excised us from The Way Corps, Cxnnie Pxanarello proclaimed that my ankle was not healing because my husband didn’t love me enough.
Months later when I finally went to an orthopaedic doctor who discovered the misdiagnosis and that my ankle was actually broken, I also found out from him that using the bicycle actually made the break worse, splintering the broken bones in my ankle.
After an entire year of treatment at The Cleveland Clinic, I finally had to undergo microsurgery. The surgeon spent several hours picking out shards of bone from my ankle, until he could no longer risk any more time with me under anesthesia. It took several years to heal this ankle. I still have bone fragments in my ankle to this day.
Brxd Thxrpe, who worked for The Way at that time, had agreed that The Way would pay the medical bills on the ankle since it happened on their property. They paid the bills directly to The Cleveland Clinic. However, after I left TWI, I got a collection notice from the hospital because TWI stopped paying the hospital after they “marked and avoided†me.
When I called TWI to find out why they had stopped paying the bills, instead of answering the question, Brxd Thxrpe tried to change the focus of the conversation by insinuating my credit must be pretty bad since they turned me over to a collection agency. He refused to own up to The Way International’s agreement to pay the bill.
TWI refused to pay the remainder of this bill until I threatened them with legal action. I later found out that they had strung me along until the statute of limitations on their responsibility expired in the state of Ohio. In order to get them to pay the bill, I had to sign a legal document stating that I would not hold The Way International or any of their ministers responsible for the permanent damage to my ankle.
So YOU decide who is responsible. I won’t say.
While my husband and I still ran a home fellowship in Parma Ohio, under the direction of Mxrk Wxllace, we were asked to conduct more and more intrusive inquisitions into the private lives of the people in our fellowship. We were told to ask to look at the personal finances of each person in the fellowship and ensure that they were not in any debt. We were encouraged to get them to show us their actual budgets and checkbooks. People with “divided†marriages were to be encouraged to leave “unbelieving†spouses. Nosing this far into another person’s private matters made me very uncomfortable, but I was determined to follow orders from my leadership.
Personal family decisions of each fellowship member came under closer and closer scrutiny. Followers were encouraged to curtail and even cut off relationships with family members who were against The Way International in order to maintain good standing within the group.
Followers were continually warned that outside the good graces of the “household,†nothing awaited but physical, financial, and spiritual devastation.
One man in our fellowship, XXXX XXXXXX, had an autistic stepdaughter whose grandmother (his mother-in-law) adamantly opposed their involvement in the group. The girl’s mother (XXXX’s wife) had died just a couple of years earlier, and her death had been attributed to her disobedience of Way leadership.
The Way International not only held XXXX’s wife responsible for her own death, but also XXXX and his entire fellowship, for not confronting her. Her crime? Owning a collection of ceramic angel figurines.
After her death, XXXX and his entire fellowship were “marked and avoided†for their sins of not confronting her on her figurine collection, and thereby allowing her death.
When we moved into the area and found out about them, there was a change in state leadership, and we asked that they be allowed back into the fellowship. They all were, and they all attended fellowship in our home. We did our best to try to get their hearts healed up after dealing with that death, and being ostracized.
XXXX had been directed by the previous state leader to throw away anything and everything in his house related to his wife. We were badgered to go to XXXX’s house to make sure he had “obeyed.†I did not feel comfortable inserting myself into XXXX’s private life, and after several months, I went over to his house for a visit. I found XXXX had packed up most of her belongings, but had not thrown them all out.
My husband and I were directed to confront XXXX on completing the instruction of getting rid of his deceased wife’s belongings, which were looked at as spiritually contaminated because of her disobedience.
We went over to his house, visibly saw the items packed into boxes, and suggested again to XXXX that he get rid of them. But I didn’t want to push him on it, since he said he was still working on it.
As a widower, raising his 12 year old autistic stepdaughter alone, XXXX enlisted the help of his mother-in-law in caring for his stepdaughter during the hours after school and before he got home from work. This arrangement was intolerable according to Mxrk Wxllace.
One day, XXXX had put his small dog out in the yard on a leash. This dog had been his deceased wife’s favorite pet, and he had not yet “gotten rid†of her dog, nor had he yet thrown out his wife’s favorite chair. While the dog was in the yard, it was viciously attacked by two roaming rottweilers and eaten, and literally nothing was left of the poor animal but the empty bloody collar and leash. XXXX was heartbroken.
When I informed Wxllace of what had occurred, he was livid, blaming the incident on XXXX’s continued disobedience and dependence upon allowing an “unbeliever†to care for his stepdaughter, and insisted we confront Jack about this arrangement. When I asked Mxrk what I should tell XXXX if he refused to make other arrangements for his daughter’s care, Mxrk shouted,
“YOU tell him I SAID, Who next in your family do you want to die?â€
During the “confrontation†with XXXX, we told him that Mxrk wanted him to make other arrangements for his step-daughter’s care, and to not allow his mother-in-law access to his step-daughter anymore. XXXX was extremely upset. He felt it was wrong to not allow a grandmother access to her only grandchild, the only living family she had left.
We talked about it for some time, rehearsing the history of his “disobedience†and the “consequences,†for example, his wife’s death and the death of her dog. Bringing this to his mind brought tears to XXXX’s eyes.
When he insisted that he could not in good conscience cut his mother-in-law off from her only other living blood relative, I told him what Mxrk Wxllace had instructed me to say to him.
XXXX put his head in his hands, and sobbed out loud, shaking. The decision was ripping his heart out. And it tore me up to do it.
I left it up to XXXX what to do. But I determined in myself, seeing how unreasonable Mxrk’s demands were, and how much pressure was being applied, that I was never going to do this anyone again.
I decided to adopt a “don’t ask, don’t tell†policy with regard to XXXX’s decision. I decided I was not going to be a part of pressuring people to this degree anymore.
Some time after that incident, in August or September of 1996, Mxrk Wxllace met with my husband and I at our house to formally remove our home fellowship from us. He asked us to put our daughter in her bedroom while he “confronted†us. During a one-way shouting confrontation, Wxllace loudly declared:
If we did not “get a passion for the truth,†that my husband would “die a lonely old man,†that I would be “hobbled for life,†and that my daughter would be “a stark raving lunatic!â€
This, Wxllace shouted well within earshot of my young 9 year old daughter who was just on the other side of the wall from where Wxllace was sitting, and she heard every single word. He scared her to death.
For months after taking away our home fellowship, Wxllace did everything he could to encourage me to leave my husband, because of his lack of “a passion for the truth.†Wxllace even told me lies about my husband in order to try to drive a wedge between us.
After several more months of having to attend Wxllace’s home fellowship, where the hypocrisy and treachery was constantly in our faces, and his wife Jxsephine interfered with my authority over my own child, I decided I had attended my last fellowship.
On the way home from fellowship I told my daughter we were never going back. However, Mxrk Wxllace had so frightened my daughter regarding the consequences of leaving TWI, that when I told her we were never going to another fellowship, she became terror-struck because she was convinced her dad was going to die, that something awful was going to happen to me, and that she would go crazy, because that is what Mxrk guaranteed would happen to us.
Although I had already made the decision I was not going back to another Way fellowship, when Wxllace found out I had made the decision, he demanded we meet with him and several other Way Corps from the area.
I suppose it ticked him off that I left instead of being tossed out.
Curiously, even after deciding to leave, I still felt heavily obligated to go to this meeting. I think this indicates the amount of power TWI still holds over people even after they try to leave.
Mxrk sequestered our daughter in another room, and began a “confrontation†again, the primary issue being our daughter’s medication (which he, Pxnarello, and Jan Gexrge had pressured us to discontinue), and our lack of “a passion for the truth.â€
We were warned of the consequences of our actions, and that we were being put on “probation†for six months (even though I had already told them I had decided to LEAVE), and ordered us to have no contact with anyone from The Way, neither friends nor family.
Although we were never allowed to have contact with anyone within The Way, they apparently could contact us whenever they damn well pleased.
On my husband’s birthday after we left TWI, he got a birthday card from his brother who is still in, berating him for being disobedient to God, and telling us that we would never even have had a child had it not been for The Way.
Even AFTER leaving TWI, we were STILL being harassed.
We spent a good deal of time after leaving TWI, waiting for “the other shoe to drop,†awaiting the cataclysmic tragedies that we were promised would befall us. It took a lot of healing to realize that the gun they held to our heads was nothing but vapor.
Rascal asks, “How can we help promote and support this [litigation]?â€
Some of the avenues to assist would include, but not be limited to:
• Willingness to serve as a fact witness for the Plaintiffs {Peelers} in the trial & share your personal accounts of undue influence under the auspices of TWI
• Providing the Peeler’s attorneys, Mike Anderson & Larry Levy, with written evidence revealing the destructive practices/actions/behaviors/deeds/polices/procedures of TWI {e.g, written correspondence from TWI top leadership to lower level leadership, especially to Way Corps, Limb/Region/Trunk leaders; copies of medical bills relating to your TWI-coerced abortion(s); if fetal tissue was medically stored at the time of abortion & is still stored, to run DNA testing to determine paternity status; copies of records relating to your TWI-promoted divorce; copies of records relating to the TWI-coerced selling of your mortgaged home; copies of faxes from LCs & BCs to TCs/HHFs; copies of correspondence from LCs & BCs relating to mark and avoid; copies of correspondence from TWI leadership relating to instances of lying, deception, fraud, blackmail, extortion, etc.; copies of your ABS records showing the pattern of TWI-coerced annually increasing amounts of financial contributions; revealing photographs; journals; diaries; etc.; etc.; you get the picture}
• When various threads are begun on the Greasespot Forum, when applicable, keep in mind how it relates to TWI’s destructive practices & explain in your postings how TWI’s actions functioned as proximate causes of destructive effects that you either personally experienced or witnessed
• Copies of your medical and psychiatric records that relate to harm/injury that you experienced as a result of TWI’s practices
• Provide emotional support to the Peelers, who might just be somewhat tired after ~ 4 years of legal wrangling with TWI
"They could in theory still recall me, but that would be a mistake (old, fat, and out of shape)"
Hmm, When I completed 20+ and attended TAP class, it was explained that in the Navy after 20+ we 'transfer' to the 'Fleet Reserve'. While in 'Fleet Reserve' status we are subject to DOD recall, are required to maintain our sea-bag, etc. Only after completing a full 30years do we shift to full retiree status (in my case 20 years active plus 10 years in Fleet Reserve). After having completed 30 years then to recall us it takes an act of congress.
Had we remained on active-duty for the full 30 years then and only then would we immediately go into the 'full-retiree' status.
I am only an E-6 so in fact my High-year-tenure (HYT) is 20 years. Normally I would not have been able to re-enlist beyond the 20 year point. At my last command (Naples Italy), being within the Kosovo theater, they did have a waiver in hand, and the command did offer repeatedly that I could re-enlist and stay active beyond my normal HYT point, out to as far as four more years.
Now I do get the Navy Retirees newsletter every few months, and it seems to go along with that theme. So I have not heard otherwise.
Granted I would prefer it to be as difficult as possible for them to recall me. Trying to pass a PRT right now would be painful. One of the guys that I went through TAP with (a MA1) was recalled soon there after. We had both thought we were very lucky for having squeeked by the stop-loss which came into place soon after we had both gotten 'out' of active status, as we both had friends who were serving in the Kosovo theater who were nailed by the stop-loss.
"But it was largely fun. I can truly say that I mostly had fun until Kosovo. ... After being involved with Kosovo, it wasn't fun anymore."
Pardon the pruning, I agree entirely. My time on subs, we had the mission and could stay focused on that. My time in Law Enforcement, mostly was rewarding and easy to focus on. But then came a religous war ...
"... And now have a great job and so on"
I am happy for you.
It is amazing at how much our nation's attitude has changed toward the military (during our careers). It truly surprized me at the open praise and support that we began seeing during Dessert Storm. When earlier in my career, I was once arrested and fined for being a sailor walking on a public beach stateside.
While my husband and I still ran a home fellowship in Parma Ohio, under the direction of Mxrk Wxllace, we were asked to conduct more and more intrusive inquisitions into the private lives of the people in our fellowship. We were told to ask to look at the personal finances of each person in the fellowship and ensure that they were not in any debt. We were encouraged to get them to show us their actual budgets and checkbooks. People with “divided†marriages were to be encouraged to leave “unbelieving†spouses. Nosing this far into another person’s private matters made me very uncomfortable, but I was determined to follow orders from my leadership.
Personally, I could never accuse Catcup of doing so from lack of intelligence.. she's probably one of the smartest folks around.
Apparently intelligence does not make one immune from this..
If would seem they "enjoyed" a fair amount of success in maneuvering an otherwise intelligent and loving person to commit despicable actions..
The gun must be very real, indeed.
quote:
We spent a good deal of time after leaving TWI, waiting for “the other shoe to drop,†awaiting the cataclysmic tragedies that we were promised would befall us. It took a lot of healing to realize that the gun they held to our heads was nothing but vapor.
Sad.. only after leaving that pile of crap, and waiting long enough, you find the damned gun was loaded with blanks..
Interesting though.. if you walk in a bank with a piece of wood that LOOKS like a firearm, point it at the teller, and say, "gimme all the loot"- if they catch you, you're going to JAIL. No matter how vocally you argue that it was only made out of wood..
I did what I did because I had been taught for decades, and believed with all my heart, that in order to be in good standing with God, and in the "household," that obedience to leadership was crucial.
I was taught Romans 13:1&2 by my fellowship coordinator before I was even allowed to run a household fellowship. It was the foundation for how my W.O.W. family was taught in W.O.W. training that it was to function. I was drilled on that verse of scripture by my limb leader in preparation for going into The Way Corps. It is the foundational verse for any kind of leadership within The Way International. I still can recite it by heart:
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God, and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Our first week in The Way Corps, we were taught that "A polite request is a command," when coming from our leadership, especially VPW. We were also told by Craig Martindale, that as soon as we retemorized Philemon 21, we were each to come to him personally and to actually whisper it in his ear:
"Having confidence in thy obedience I wrote unto thee, knowing that thou will also do more than I say."
We were taught that when we were told to "jump," we were not only not to ask how high, but to jump higher than anyone else. Martindale made it clear with Philemon 21, that The Way Corps were to not only obey, but to go the extra mile in that obedience.
Then Del Duncan was brought in especially for a special teaching to The 6th Way Corps, done in the Chapel at Emporia. It was titled "Blind Obedience."
In this teaching, it was abundantly clear that no matter what our "senses" mind told us, we were obligated as God's most holy servants to obey without question "The Word of God" and the instruction from our elders. We were told that as a doulos, our lives were particularly now NOT our own. We were "bought with a price" and had obligations above and beyond "regular" believers, and the consequences for breaking our vows was "unthinkable."
Pair those teachings, and the heartfelt belief in those teachings, the threat of emotional, financial, spiritual, and physical harm and destruction if you abandon your "calling" and the "household," and you have the recipe for
denying your conscience as a liar and an enemy of God
for telling you that what you are experiencing and being told to do is wrong.
We were systematically taught to destroy any sense of self. See my editorial The Destruction of Self, for exactly how this is accomplished by The Way International in its teachings.
Catcup, that kind of teaching slowly made its way down to the local level- one little compromise, one little sacrifice after another.
Seeing how much havoc it caused for people who had some kind of connection with the outside world, I couldn't imagine what it was like behind closed doors.
They not only stole our lives, but the honor of many people who were actually willing to sacrifice and lay their lives down in order to serve the body of believers.
They made our sacrifice a sham. They turned our life's dream into a nightmare. They stole our dignity and exploited our youth, our strength, our idealism, and our loyalty,in order to line their own pockets.
And they turned us into people who rather than fed the flock, and bound the wounds, and led them to safety as were our original intentions, to those who actually confounded, wounded, and scattered them.
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Ham
True on all counts.
But I would add this:
His constant, unbending and arrogant dismissal of most things evil directly due to TWI really shows the whole world what kind of .... we really had to put up with.
Put someone like this in a position with authority, and you've got some REAL problems.
Not that I was exactly a "saint" either..
A couple of people on this board could probably tell horror stories about me.. and I never had any appointment higher than twig coordinator.
In a lot of ways, I was just the same. Good grief.. I hope I'm getting better..
Seems some people would try to throw the darn gun in the bay and pretend it never existed to begin with. "What shooting? I don't know nuttin.."
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Brother Speed
No Mark. Not the last 3 years. Just this last year.
But I have only been full-time for 17 of those 23 years.
So, I coulda left. But I woulda hadta give up my current salary. And my retirement.
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Brother Speed
Oh, Mark?
PS.
If I'da left, I'da been discharged and transferred to the ready reserves. And then from the ready reserves I'da been shipped over to Iraq anyway.
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rascal
Good points brother speed.
Thank you for your prayers, and know that you continue to be in ours.
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markomalley
Gotcha. Thanks.
I retired in 2002 right after they lifted the Afghanistan stop-loss. But all of mine was active, so that's the difference. And, yes, I was subject to recall for 2 years as you would be.
I personally was disgusted, revolted, and appalled doing the Noble Eagle (Kosovo) stuff. And am still ashamed for having anything to do with it. So I sympathize with you. But, ya gotta follow orders. I hope you aren't having to do anything as horrible as what we had to do to the Serbs while you're over there. (Although for OPSEC you won't be able to say, I recognize)
Godspeed.
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CM
a side note on abortion...
where there was life, there still is
do not use it against yourself and call
yourself a murderer
a murderer knows that it's murder when it is being done
we have been deceived with other things as well
do not let this get to you
to the point of taking wrong actions now
Love Always
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jkboehme
Great insights by rascal, mr hamm, WW, many others...
Another thought re TWI's practices/actions/behaviors/deeds....
This thread gets to the heart of the Peeler v. The Way International litigation.
Whether exit-phobia induction such that almost everyone was afraid to leave TWI, sexual abuse of Way followers by VPW or LCM, child abuse & pedophilia by TWI twig/branch/limb leaders, or a host of other TWI destructive behaviors, essentially all fall under the TWI-formalized practices of covert Undue Influence, known by many other terms,under which all of us ex-twi have suffered:
Coercive persuasion that is by design covert, subtle, fluid, & insidious
Thought reform without informed consent
Psychological coercion
Thought struggle
Debility, dependency, & dread
Unfreezing, changing, & refreezing of one’s mind
Exploitative mental manipulation
Mind control
Unethical influence via manipulation of normal automatic responding
Manipulation of human responses of consistency, reciprocity, social proof, authority, liking, & scarcity
Inducing cognitive dissonance & then exploiting via manipulation of behavior / information / thought /emotional control
Manipulation of transient vulnerabilities
Manipulation of guilt
Manipulation of exit phobia
Exploitative persuasion
Post-cultic PTSD (post-traumatic stress disorder)
Exploitative manipulation of psychosocial group dynamics
Systematic manipulation of psychological and social influence
Coordinated programs of coercive influence and behavioral control
Naturalistic conversational trance induction via anchoring, indirection, implication, & implantation of ‘suggestions’
Packaged persuasion
Manipulative calculated persuasion procedures to induce ‘commitment’
Destruction of the true, historical self-identity & replacing it with a cult-originated pseudo-self & pseudo-identity, sogwap
Destabilization of a person’s general reality orientation
Covert strategies and techniques to keep recruits & members unaware of the cult’s double agenda : terrorism core glazed w/ fake love
Promoting mind-numbing techniques such as the supposed ‘renewing of the mind,’ & confabulated ‘speaking in tongues’
Exploitative persuasion via ‘proof through reframing,’ a counterfeit process of positive reinterpretation to validate twi’s practices
Relaxation-induced anxiety via continual glossolalia (SIT much in your private prayer life)
Guided imagery
Indirect directives
Personal historical revision under cult pressure
Peer pressure & modeling
Many others too numerous to mention
The Greasespot forum hopefully confers some healing & hope for those irreversibly harmed by TWI.
This thread, among other forum expositions, gets to the heart of the Peeler v. The Way International litigation.
It is always encouraging when ex-twi's take personal initiative to promote & support this litigation which will hopefully rid the world of the contamination which is TWI.
Let's not allow TWI to continue to hide behind the false issue of First Amendment religioius beliefs when the real issue is their destructive practices/behaviors/actions/deeds!
Why allow cowardly TWI to contine to cower under the skirts of Lady Liberty, with the assistance of $1,000/hour defense attorneys?
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Brother Speed
Mark,
2 years subject to recall? Man o man! They getcha comin' and goin' don't they.
It reminds me of a statement made in a movie by a computer. The movie 'war games' (I think?). The statement 'the only winning move, is not to play.'
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Radar OReilly
JKBoehme....welcome to gspot and thank you for the well thought out....if REALLY LONG post
You are 100 percent right on in you remarks, but a bit toooooooooo much for one post (imo.)
Preparing for the Allen suit against twi....I remember having a conversation with their attorney, Larry Levy. His main concern with twi policies, procedures and practices was their complete and total, UNDUE INFLUENCE (actual legally accepted term) in the lives of their followers.
Undue influence includes, abortion under duress, divorce under duress, financial support under duress, and among others, familial abandonment under duress.
For those posters that conclude that actions taken without an PHYSICAL GUN to your head do not equate to REAL gun to your head.....ya'll need to look into the legalities of coercion and blackmail.
Thanks for bringing these points up JKB.....you are new and dont seem to have a dog in this fight, maybe your input will bring some new understanding.
Radar
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markomalley
Brother Speed,
That was the standard. Still is, as you know.
They could in theory still recall me, but that would be a mistake (old, fat, and out of shape)
But it was largely fun. I can truly say that I mostly had fun until Kosovo. And that includes the deployments and the hours. The target lists were wrong. See, I worked at the operational headquarters and had TONS of additional LOAC training than most people have because we had to do the targeting for all the theater's air wings. The target list was designed to take the country (Serbia) down. Not proportional response (I know you are aware of that term's meaning).
Even if, at the moment, life stinks living in a tent and being a$$-high in mud, if you believe you're doing the right thing, it was worth it. Hardships weren't so important. But if you believe you're doing the wrong thing, that's when it gets incredibly long.
After being involved with Kosovo, it wasn't fun anymore. And I made up my mind to get out as soon as I could after my 20. (And now have a great job and so on)
So I don't regret it at all (except that one thing)...
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rascal
Thankyou JKBoehme, it has taken over ten years to start putting the pieces together and begin to understand how wrong what happened is....your post articulates the methods of manipulation and control much clearer than I can.
-----------------------------------------------
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Catcup
TWI is well-versed in how to manipulate people and hold them captive, using any and all of the techniques jkboehme describes. TWI pried into the private details of our family’s health and finances and used intimidation techniques to try to manipulate and control not only us, but others in their own best interests.
During Rock of Ages in August of 1995, I fell in an unmarked uncovered trench and broke my left ankle on grounds of The Way International. I was detained for several hours in their “Third Aid†office, until they actually located someone from my home fellowship who would accompany me to the hospital. However, if they would have just given me a ride on a cushman to my car, I could have driven myself to the hospital hours earlier, because my driving foot was not affected.
But because my injury happened on their grounds, in an uncovered and unmarked trench in an area they KNEW would be traveled that week by thousands of people, they wanted to control my access to health care: who gave it, and when. I had to sit there for several hours just waiting for one of their doctors to show up, who I knew would not be able to do anything other than to suggest an X-ray, which TWI was not capable of doing in their trailer. They refused to allow me to leave or give me a ride to my car so I could drive myself to the local hospital.
When I finally did get to the hospital, the break in my ankle was misdiagnosed as a sprain. Later on in the Cleveland area, when my ankle was not healing, whenever I went to Corps meetings the leadership kept staring at the ankle brace I had to wear. Mxrk Wxllace and Chxryl Wxtson got together and suggested that my ankle was not healing because I “needed to lose weight,†and Wxtson suggested I go on a “rice diet†and use her stationary bicycle to exercise.
I knew first of all that a total carbohydrate diet for three weeks was not in the best interest of my health, and I told them I was already following a diet prescribed by my doctor. Needless to say, this was not well-received. They then insisted I take the bicycle and use it to rehabilitate my ankle, and exercise to lose weight. I told them I didn’t want it.
You should have been there to feel the room freeze over.
I later relented because of all the pressure to obey my leadership. They brought the bike over to my house, and when I tried to use it, my ankle hurt. I continued trying to use the bike for a couple of weeks, but my ankle was getting worse and not getting better with it, so I stopped using it and asked them to come and get the bike. Later during the confrontation that excised us from The Way Corps, Cxnnie Pxanarello proclaimed that my ankle was not healing because my husband didn’t love me enough.
Months later when I finally went to an orthopaedic doctor who discovered the misdiagnosis and that my ankle was actually broken, I also found out from him that using the bicycle actually made the break worse, splintering the broken bones in my ankle.
After an entire year of treatment at The Cleveland Clinic, I finally had to undergo microsurgery. The surgeon spent several hours picking out shards of bone from my ankle, until he could no longer risk any more time with me under anesthesia. It took several years to heal this ankle. I still have bone fragments in my ankle to this day.
Brxd Thxrpe, who worked for The Way at that time, had agreed that The Way would pay the medical bills on the ankle since it happened on their property. They paid the bills directly to The Cleveland Clinic. However, after I left TWI, I got a collection notice from the hospital because TWI stopped paying the hospital after they “marked and avoided†me.
When I called TWI to find out why they had stopped paying the bills, instead of answering the question, Brxd Thxrpe tried to change the focus of the conversation by insinuating my credit must be pretty bad since they turned me over to a collection agency. He refused to own up to The Way International’s agreement to pay the bill.
TWI refused to pay the remainder of this bill until I threatened them with legal action. I later found out that they had strung me along until the statute of limitations on their responsibility expired in the state of Ohio. In order to get them to pay the bill, I had to sign a legal document stating that I would not hold The Way International or any of their ministers responsible for the permanent damage to my ankle.
So YOU decide who is responsible. I won’t say.
While my husband and I still ran a home fellowship in Parma Ohio, under the direction of Mxrk Wxllace, we were asked to conduct more and more intrusive inquisitions into the private lives of the people in our fellowship. We were told to ask to look at the personal finances of each person in the fellowship and ensure that they were not in any debt. We were encouraged to get them to show us their actual budgets and checkbooks. People with “divided†marriages were to be encouraged to leave “unbelieving†spouses. Nosing this far into another person’s private matters made me very uncomfortable, but I was determined to follow orders from my leadership.
Personal family decisions of each fellowship member came under closer and closer scrutiny. Followers were encouraged to curtail and even cut off relationships with family members who were against The Way International in order to maintain good standing within the group.
Followers were continually warned that outside the good graces of the “household,†nothing awaited but physical, financial, and spiritual devastation.
One man in our fellowship, XXXX XXXXXX, had an autistic stepdaughter whose grandmother (his mother-in-law) adamantly opposed their involvement in the group. The girl’s mother (XXXX’s wife) had died just a couple of years earlier, and her death had been attributed to her disobedience of Way leadership.
The Way International not only held XXXX’s wife responsible for her own death, but also XXXX and his entire fellowship, for not confronting her. Her crime? Owning a collection of ceramic angel figurines.
After her death, XXXX and his entire fellowship were “marked and avoided†for their sins of not confronting her on her figurine collection, and thereby allowing her death.
When we moved into the area and found out about them, there was a change in state leadership, and we asked that they be allowed back into the fellowship. They all were, and they all attended fellowship in our home. We did our best to try to get their hearts healed up after dealing with that death, and being ostracized.
XXXX had been directed by the previous state leader to throw away anything and everything in his house related to his wife. We were badgered to go to XXXX’s house to make sure he had “obeyed.†I did not feel comfortable inserting myself into XXXX’s private life, and after several months, I went over to his house for a visit. I found XXXX had packed up most of her belongings, but had not thrown them all out.
My husband and I were directed to confront XXXX on completing the instruction of getting rid of his deceased wife’s belongings, which were looked at as spiritually contaminated because of her disobedience.
We went over to his house, visibly saw the items packed into boxes, and suggested again to XXXX that he get rid of them. But I didn’t want to push him on it, since he said he was still working on it.
As a widower, raising his 12 year old autistic stepdaughter alone, XXXX enlisted the help of his mother-in-law in caring for his stepdaughter during the hours after school and before he got home from work. This arrangement was intolerable according to Mxrk Wxllace.
One day, XXXX had put his small dog out in the yard on a leash. This dog had been his deceased wife’s favorite pet, and he had not yet “gotten rid†of her dog, nor had he yet thrown out his wife’s favorite chair. While the dog was in the yard, it was viciously attacked by two roaming rottweilers and eaten, and literally nothing was left of the poor animal but the empty bloody collar and leash. XXXX was heartbroken.
When I informed Wxllace of what had occurred, he was livid, blaming the incident on XXXX’s continued disobedience and dependence upon allowing an “unbeliever†to care for his stepdaughter, and insisted we confront Jack about this arrangement. When I asked Mxrk what I should tell XXXX if he refused to make other arrangements for his daughter’s care, Mxrk shouted,
“YOU tell him I SAID, Who next in your family do you want to die?â€
During the “confrontation†with XXXX, we told him that Mxrk wanted him to make other arrangements for his step-daughter’s care, and to not allow his mother-in-law access to his step-daughter anymore. XXXX was extremely upset. He felt it was wrong to not allow a grandmother access to her only grandchild, the only living family she had left.
We talked about it for some time, rehearsing the history of his “disobedience†and the “consequences,†for example, his wife’s death and the death of her dog. Bringing this to his mind brought tears to XXXX’s eyes.
When he insisted that he could not in good conscience cut his mother-in-law off from her only other living blood relative, I told him what Mxrk Wxllace had instructed me to say to him.
XXXX put his head in his hands, and sobbed out loud, shaking. The decision was ripping his heart out. And it tore me up to do it.
I left it up to XXXX what to do. But I determined in myself, seeing how unreasonable Mxrk’s demands were, and how much pressure was being applied, that I was never going to do this anyone again.
I decided to adopt a “don’t ask, don’t tell†policy with regard to XXXX’s decision. I decided I was not going to be a part of pressuring people to this degree anymore.
Some time after that incident, in August or September of 1996, Mxrk Wxllace met with my husband and I at our house to formally remove our home fellowship from us. He asked us to put our daughter in her bedroom while he “confronted†us. During a one-way shouting confrontation, Wxllace loudly declared:
If we did not “get a passion for the truth,†that my husband would “die a lonely old man,†that I would be “hobbled for life,†and that my daughter would be “a stark raving lunatic!â€
This, Wxllace shouted well within earshot of my young 9 year old daughter who was just on the other side of the wall from where Wxllace was sitting, and she heard every single word. He scared her to death.
For months after taking away our home fellowship, Wxllace did everything he could to encourage me to leave my husband, because of his lack of “a passion for the truth.†Wxllace even told me lies about my husband in order to try to drive a wedge between us.
After several more months of having to attend Wxllace’s home fellowship, where the hypocrisy and treachery was constantly in our faces, and his wife Jxsephine interfered with my authority over my own child, I decided I had attended my last fellowship.
On the way home from fellowship I told my daughter we were never going back. However, Mxrk Wxllace had so frightened my daughter regarding the consequences of leaving TWI, that when I told her we were never going to another fellowship, she became terror-struck because she was convinced her dad was going to die, that something awful was going to happen to me, and that she would go crazy, because that is what Mxrk guaranteed would happen to us.
Although I had already made the decision I was not going back to another Way fellowship, when Wxllace found out I had made the decision, he demanded we meet with him and several other Way Corps from the area.
I suppose it ticked him off that I left instead of being tossed out.
Curiously, even after deciding to leave, I still felt heavily obligated to go to this meeting. I think this indicates the amount of power TWI still holds over people even after they try to leave.
Mxrk sequestered our daughter in another room, and began a “confrontation†again, the primary issue being our daughter’s medication (which he, Pxnarello, and Jan Gexrge had pressured us to discontinue), and our lack of “a passion for the truth.â€
We were warned of the consequences of our actions, and that we were being put on “probation†for six months (even though I had already told them I had decided to LEAVE), and ordered us to have no contact with anyone from The Way, neither friends nor family.
Although we were never allowed to have contact with anyone within The Way, they apparently could contact us whenever they damn well pleased.
On my husband’s birthday after we left TWI, he got a birthday card from his brother who is still in, berating him for being disobedient to God, and telling us that we would never even have had a child had it not been for The Way.
Even AFTER leaving TWI, we were STILL being harassed.
We spent a good deal of time after leaving TWI, waiting for “the other shoe to drop,†awaiting the cataclysmic tragedies that we were promised would befall us. It took a lot of healing to realize that the gun they held to our heads was nothing but vapor.
But it still did a hell of a lot of damage.
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CM
i should clarify my last post
i don't know when life starts
i'm sure twi don't
the point is if there was life
then it's still alive
life is spiritual
the physical will die anyway
the life i'm talking about is spiritual
from what point? Not sure...
whenever it is, God did it
comparing abortion with a miscarriage
can be frustrating, would your body murder?
that spiritual life whenever it began is still what God did and it's in God's hands. No person can undo what God has done. PERIOD
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jkboehme
Rascal asks, “How can we help promote and support this [litigation]?â€
Some of the avenues to assist would include, but not be limited to:
• Willingness to serve as a fact witness for the Plaintiffs {Peelers} in the trial & share your personal accounts of undue influence under the auspices of TWI
• Providing the Peeler’s attorneys, Mike Anderson & Larry Levy, with written evidence revealing the destructive practices/actions/behaviors/deeds/polices/procedures of TWI {e.g, written correspondence from TWI top leadership to lower level leadership, especially to Way Corps, Limb/Region/Trunk leaders; copies of medical bills relating to your TWI-coerced abortion(s); if fetal tissue was medically stored at the time of abortion & is still stored, to run DNA testing to determine paternity status; copies of records relating to your TWI-promoted divorce; copies of records relating to the TWI-coerced selling of your mortgaged home; copies of faxes from LCs & BCs to TCs/HHFs; copies of correspondence from LCs & BCs relating to mark and avoid; copies of correspondence from TWI leadership relating to instances of lying, deception, fraud, blackmail, extortion, etc.; copies of your ABS records showing the pattern of TWI-coerced annually increasing amounts of financial contributions; revealing photographs; journals; diaries; etc.; etc.; you get the picture}
• When various threads are begun on the Greasespot Forum, when applicable, keep in mind how it relates to TWI’s destructive practices & explain in your postings how TWI’s actions functioned as proximate causes of destructive effects that you either personally experienced or witnessed
• Copies of your medical and psychiatric records that relate to harm/injury that you experienced as a result of TWI’s practices
• Provide emotional support to the Peelers, who might just be somewhat tired after ~ 4 years of legal wrangling with TWI
• Etc.; etc.; etc………………………………………………
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WordWolf
Of course, some people will deny undue influence as significant so long
as no physical means was used. The law of the US doesn't see it their
way however.
Supreme Court Justice Brennan (joined by Justice Marshall) wrote:
1988.
Now, the courts are as neutral a 3rd party as one could find.
If THEY say that's an effective method of control without a gun,
then it should be obvious that it is so.
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Galen
Mark:
"2 years subject to recall?"
"That was the standard. Still is, as you know."
"They could in theory still recall me, but that would be a mistake (old, fat, and out of shape)"
Hmm, When I completed 20+ and attended TAP class, it was explained that in the Navy after 20+ we 'transfer' to the 'Fleet Reserve'. While in 'Fleet Reserve' status we are subject to DOD recall, are required to maintain our sea-bag, etc. Only after completing a full 30years do we shift to full retiree status (in my case 20 years active plus 10 years in Fleet Reserve). After having completed 30 years then to recall us it takes an act of congress.
Had we remained on active-duty for the full 30 years then and only then would we immediately go into the 'full-retiree' status.
I am only an E-6 so in fact my High-year-tenure (HYT) is 20 years. Normally I would not have been able to re-enlist beyond the 20 year point. At my last command (Naples Italy), being within the Kosovo theater, they did have a waiver in hand, and the command did offer repeatedly that I could re-enlist and stay active beyond my normal HYT point, out to as far as four more years.
Now I do get the Navy Retirees newsletter every few months, and it seems to go along with that theme. So I have not heard otherwise.
Granted I would prefer it to be as difficult as possible for them to recall me. Trying to pass a PRT right now would be painful. One of the guys that I went through TAP with (a MA1) was recalled soon there after. We had both thought we were very lucky for having squeeked by the stop-loss which came into place soon after we had both gotten 'out' of active status, as we both had friends who were serving in the Kosovo theater who were nailed by the stop-loss.
"But it was largely fun. I can truly say that I mostly had fun until Kosovo. ... After being involved with Kosovo, it wasn't fun anymore."
Pardon the pruning, I agree entirely. My time on subs, we had the mission and could stay focused on that. My time in Law Enforcement, mostly was rewarding and easy to focus on. But then came a religous war ...
"... And now have a great job and so on"
I am happy for you.
It is amazing at how much our nation's attitude has changed toward the military (during our careers). It truly surprized me at the open praise and support that we began seeing during Dessert Storm. When earlier in my career, I was once arrested and fined for being a sailor walking on a public beach stateside.
:-)
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Ham
Personally, I could never accuse Catcup of doing so from lack of intelligence.. she's probably one of the smartest folks around.
Apparently intelligence does not make one immune from this..
If would seem they "enjoyed" a fair amount of success in maneuvering an otherwise intelligent and loving person to commit despicable actions..
The gun must be very real, indeed.
Sad.. only after leaving that pile of crap, and waiting long enough, you find the damned gun was loaded with blanks..
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Ham
Interesting though.. if you walk in a bank with a piece of wood that LOOKS like a firearm, point it at the teller, and say, "gimme all the loot"- if they catch you, you're going to JAIL. No matter how vocally you argue that it was only made out of wood..
"Awwww, I didn't REALLY mean any harm.."
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Brother Speed
...and I said, now drink this Kool-aid, you don't want to upset daddy now do you?
honest injun, your honor, I didn't use a gun.
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Ham
Brother Speed, I really like your avatar..
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Brother Speed
Mr. Hammeroni,
I searched for a marvin the marvin website. Many thousand out there on the web. A few clicks cut and paste and edit my avatar and marvin was there.
Back in the US I have a mountain of marvin stuff. Marvin's going to go through many adventures on a thread here at the cafe when I return home.
:)-->
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Catcup
I did what I did because I had been taught for decades, and believed with all my heart, that in order to be in good standing with God, and in the "household," that obedience to leadership was crucial.
I was taught Romans 13:1&2 by my fellowship coordinator before I was even allowed to run a household fellowship. It was the foundation for how my W.O.W. family was taught in W.O.W. training that it was to function. I was drilled on that verse of scripture by my limb leader in preparation for going into The Way Corps. It is the foundational verse for any kind of leadership within The Way International. I still can recite it by heart:
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God, and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Our first week in The Way Corps, we were taught that "A polite request is a command," when coming from our leadership, especially VPW. We were also told by Craig Martindale, that as soon as we retemorized Philemon 21, we were each to come to him personally and to actually whisper it in his ear:
"Having confidence in thy obedience I wrote unto thee, knowing that thou will also do more than I say."
We were taught that when we were told to "jump," we were not only not to ask how high, but to jump higher than anyone else. Martindale made it clear with Philemon 21, that The Way Corps were to not only obey, but to go the extra mile in that obedience.
Then Del Duncan was brought in especially for a special teaching to The 6th Way Corps, done in the Chapel at Emporia. It was titled "Blind Obedience."
In this teaching, it was abundantly clear that no matter what our "senses" mind told us, we were obligated as God's most holy servants to obey without question "The Word of God" and the instruction from our elders. We were told that as a doulos, our lives were particularly now NOT our own. We were "bought with a price" and had obligations above and beyond "regular" believers, and the consequences for breaking our vows was "unthinkable."
Pair those teachings, and the heartfelt belief in those teachings, the threat of emotional, financial, spiritual, and physical harm and destruction if you abandon your "calling" and the "household," and you have the recipe for
denying your conscience as a liar and an enemy of God
for telling you that what you are experiencing and being told to do is wrong.
We were systematically taught to destroy any sense of self. See my editorial The Destruction of Self, for exactly how this is accomplished by The Way International in its teachings.
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Ham
Catcup, that kind of teaching slowly made its way down to the local level- one little compromise, one little sacrifice after another.
Seeing how much havoc it caused for people who had some kind of connection with the outside world, I couldn't imagine what it was like behind closed doors.
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Catcup
They not only stole our lives, but the honor of many people who were actually willing to sacrifice and lay their lives down in order to serve the body of believers.
They made our sacrifice a sham. They turned our life's dream into a nightmare. They stole our dignity and exploited our youth, our strength, our idealism, and our loyalty,in order to line their own pockets.
And they turned us into people who rather than fed the flock, and bound the wounds, and led them to safety as were our original intentions, to those who actually confounded, wounded, and scattered them.
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