it's not like your righteousness is deleted and restored, but made better as we build the building in the mind of fellowship with God that has been there since birth
Its being molested all over. Just pick a subject. Same crap different day. Vp and twi was right. The comparison of their word to Moleck is so true.
The first and great comanment and the second like it. Where were they(twi). It was always about them and not God or love. It was always wrong and still is. The worship of a false God.
I know oldies can be a pain in the butt but I veiw his views as the ying and yang of spirituality. With his opposition it clarifies and find tunes that which is completly compassionite,graceful and a few more Godly attributes... to my understanding. Without his opposition as antaginistic as it is, it helps to logically push circumstances to it compassionate conclusiuon. With his imput it certainly allows for me to make an informed decsion to keep pursueing the God of my understanding and not his.
The fact that he is done argueing for th weekend lets me know he take pleasue in being who he is. Argumentive and unreasonable. And that is O.K. You have to take a good look at the conterfit of a thing to be able to see the purity of the athentic. Thanks Oldies for making clear again the difference. I think I'll keep my God and leave your to your own demise. Have a good weekend!
Mr. Hammeroni, it occurs to me that most of these women actually wanted to have the abortions to stay in the corps, or didn't really want to be mothers, or didn't look on these abortions as an evil thing.
It occurs to me that when these SAME women say that all of this
wasn't true,
that they didn't want to have abortions and were pressured to conform
until they did (no physical gun, but much social stigma)
or
that given the choice, they wanted to have the child but "leadership"
insisted they not,
or
that they thought abortion was WRONG no matter what the official
doctrine was, and they ONLY did it because someone was putting the
squeeze on them,
it occurs to me that you'd prefer to maintain your original POV rather
than actually increase in understanding.
quote:
That was then.
How it was viewed then is the proper way to view it since that is the context they were in.
Back then, they were actively pressured to do so, some freaked out
when they agreed under coercion, and some "leaders" were assigned
as "exit counselors" to get them to silence their consciences when
they KNEW something wasn't right. That was then.
quote:
It's so easy for us to view it 30 years later and say that it was evil
Seems that for some of us, that's hardly "easy".
vpw rapes someone. That's evil. Some of us can't easily call it that.
quote:
but it wasn't meant to be an evil...the corps wasn't meant to be evil.
No, it was meant to serve vpw under the cover of being a
godly program. Was SOME good wrought? Sure. Was some BAD wrought?
Sure. Its motives were impure from its inception, which tainted the
reaults. The execution certainly was impure, which is why we're having
I talked with a lady last night who fled her first appointment as well...when she was taken back, it had been arranged to knock her out with drugs for the procedure.
I would be that lady Rascal referred to in her post. I had just turned 18 and my mom still held the purse strings. It was either do as I was told or live on the street. I did as I was told and of course she told me what to do using TWI as her 'source of authority'.
I remember being taken to a clinic and sitting there in the reception area listening to the women talking to each other. Many were 'regulars' and were talking about their abortions as if it was an everyday thing. Some were hookers cause they were discussing not knowing which of their 'johns' was the father. I totally freaked out and ran out of there as fast as I could.
There was no talking me into going back inside that clinic, so my mom took me home and next arranged for me to have the procedure done outpatient at a hospital by a OB/GYN doc. I remember lying there in the room and hearing the doc walking down the hallway to the room. He was laughing and teasing the nurses as he walked, a few of the ladies would squeal and laugh as he patted them on their butts as he passed by them. Then he was in the room and put me under before I could run away again.
I supposed I should mention that I was told (without any tests being run) that the baby may not have been normal anyway, since his father had used drugs in his past. I was young enough I bought that lame excuse, of course today I know better.
Years later, 10 to be exact, I broke it off with a TWI boyfriend I had been dating for some time. I was living in a little cottage behind a main house in a safe neighborhood. I forgot to lock my door one night, something I did on occasion without any worries, but that night the ex got drunk and decided he was horny. He came to my place, late at night when I was asleep, let himself in the door and I woke up to find him standing over me in my bedroom. I know I don't need to tell anyone here what happened next.
About 2 to 3 weeks later I got very, very sick. My neighbor arranged to get me to the ER and they gave me some medicine to make me feel better, then handed me another script telling me to make sure I took the prenatal vitamins, they were really good. I freaked .. I had no idea I was pregnant. A few days later is when the bleeding started.
I couldn't afford to go into a hospital for a D and C to clean myself out after I started the miscarriage, so I went the only route I could afford .. an abortion clinic. As I laid there, awake, and listened as the doctor did the procedure, I couldn't help but think of the real abortion I'd had when I was 18. That is when it hit me soooo hard that I had murdered my 1st child. While I've repented and know God will forgive me, forgiving myself for not being stronger and fighting more doesn't come so easy.
Today I have taped to my monitor a lapel pin, still attached to the little plastic card. It is called Precious Feet and it is a pair of feet molded out of silver, the same size the feet of a 10 week old fetus in the womb are. I found it at a Christian Bookstore near where I live. I look at it many times a day and it helps me mourne the loss of that baby I killed.
OM told me a long time ago that I shouldn't take any letters I received from vpw as actually from vpw himself because there were many people who opened and answered vpw's mail. I asked him how he knew this and he said that he used to do it for vpw all the time.
Actually, it was something he said on the board, it was this...
quote:
Regarding VPW's so-called responses...would it surprise you to
learn that his mail was screened and it's quite possible that he never
saw what Coolwaters wrote? I know this firsthand, because I wrote him
myself and got back responses signed by his screeners, but signed
"Victor Paul Wierwille". I examined and investigated and found out that
one of my letters was screened, and VPW never saw it. So, yes, it's
possible that VPW didn't know about it and she got responses from
letter screeners.
So,
unless it was something in chat or elsewhere,
he said he himself sent something that was screened, not that he was a
Oldies and possibly a few others can only seem to view TWI in light of thier own experience.
As far as Oldies is concerned, your personal experience is meaningless, didn't really happen (or you are lying about it), if it contradicts his experience (real or imagined).
That is when it hit me soooo hard that I had murdered my 1st child.
{{{{{{Bikerbabe}}}}}}
That was the thought that hit me after the kids were gone. It's stayed with me to this day-
there are days I honestly feel that losing my kids was the punishment I had to pay for killing "David"
And {{{{{{{{Rascal}}}}}}}
We won't have to say we are sorry because our little ones have been with Heavenly Father this entire time and know what unconditional love and forgiveness means better than we do
Our reunion with them will be one of the blessings we will have.
Oh gosh cm, that link was SO applicable, and I missed it.
ALL you have to do is switch out armstrongs name and the name of his church and you have the pressures of twi.
Thanks friend.
It is amazing what one will do to avoid risking the displeasure of God and dissapointing of ones spiritual leaders....and it seems to be a fairly common occurance....the former jw`s say it is the same for them as well.
I think it is really despicable to envoke the threat of God to assure compliance.
I think about the intrusion into our personal lives, unpardonable by any standard , yet sop because they had the authority of their position as ministers of God.
The finances inspected, grown adults having to submit requests to go on vacations with every detail of who what where staying complete with phone numbers. Who we lived with....gosh I was ordered to move out of my Mom`s house where I was working and saving money (I wanted to go in the corpes) at leaderships demand, and with the roomate they chose.
I was required to sell my two horses, place my two dogs in homes, ordered to cease bringing the sick animals home from the pet store to nurture, ordered to stop humane society and sheriffs dept activities.
My tc even demanded that I sell him my car for a rediculously low sum before I went wow...damn him (I loved that car and had had it since high school)
I ignored my mothers pain and refused to go to my grandmothers funeral,
Turned my back on all friends and family who didn`t want the word
None of these were things that I particularly wanted to do, some were devistating, but was strong armed into compliance, because it was deemed that it was as necessary if I wanted to be my *best for God*.
This was happening in the late 70s early 80s, it was completely beyond reason in the 90s.
Thanks ((mark)) it is ok, it has been many years, what I wrestle with now is not so much what we did ....but that we were led to believe by ministers we trusted...that God required it...whatever it was they were demanding we do...
Some folks were smart enough to see through the bs...I think maybe it had something to do with being very young and idealistic.
Of COURSE I feel stupid and naieve now for allowing anybody to have that kind of authority and power over my life...
Absolutely Danny, I have the same physical reaction myself at times, it can be like a kick in the stomache....
I wish the issues and ideas could be explored without having to get dragged off topic dealing with the finger pointing and attempts at recriminations....
I have to agree with Imbus somewhat, in that discussing this with the opposition, I am forced to logically consider what I believe and why...sometimes resulting in a much clearer pov.
Sometimes the finger pointing and mischaracterization ends up goading me into spewing way more information than I would have normally divulged otherwise, forcing examination of some of one`s dirtier little secrets...
I think this has to be part of the growing and healing process...if one has to spend all of your time trying to figure out how to defend the indefensible, I think that a person may end up being forever stuck in the quagmire of the warped perception of spirituality and the world that was presented in twi.
Seeing things thru the eyes of God's Love can turn the worst into what we have long for deep in our soul. To know the Love of Christ that passes knowledge and therefore hard to put into words.
A lady once posted how she felt that damage sustained from her procedure and consequently being prevented from ever having children afterwards could have been her punishment.
I had to point out that I had done the same evil thing...and yet had gone on to have children...he certainly wouldn`t deny her children and then allow me to have some for the same sin?
I am just saying that I think God loves each of us a whole lot more than that.
If he is capable of sorrow, I`ll bet he was right their crying with us each one of us as we submitted.
I was 15yo, a ward of the court, and literally forced to have an abortion..."either in the hospital with your mother by your side, or here in my office, handcuffed, with two police women by your side." That was the 'choice' given to me by my probation officer.
I mourn my baby to this very day. I still carry terrible guilt, shame and sorrow. I am now 46yo.
This was pre-twi...but was the trigger that sent me looking into 'alternative' religions. TWI came into my life within the year.
When I was 18yo and pregnant with my daughter, it was a HUGE blessing from God that twi did not know early enough to tell me to have an abortion.
What happened instead was that twi did everything they could to talk me into giving my daughter up for adoption.
When I say 'twi' I mean my limb leader acting on what he claimed was instructions from HQ. I mean that twi, via the Kansas Limb, was going to handle all the legal proceedings and was going to give my baby to a corpse couple who couldn't have children.
Well, he didn't go WOW that year. He instead married me and gave the marriage a real gung-ho try of 2 full months before he left me stranded.
After that, my Limb Leader kept heavy pressure on me to give up my baby to twi. There were daily phone calls from him. He even got my parents and my grandparents involved to 'convince' me.
In the meantime, my husband filed for divorce.
Although the divorce had not even gone to court yet, he was allowed to go WOW the next opportunity. He went WOW leaving me and my baby to exist on $90/mo.
No gun, though. A gun would have been kinder.
And, oh, did I forget to tell you about when I got pregnant with my second child? You know, in Alaska? When I was told by my Limb Leader, my twig leader, my branch leader and many of my co-twiggies that my child was 'a son of Satan'? Oh yeah...I think I've mentioned this before. Sorry for boring you all...
But again, no gun (well, one of them did sit outside my apartment building all night, night after night, for several nights, with a gun in his lap, but let's not count that... --> ). A gun would have been too kind.
***************************
WordWolf,
What he said to me was edited out before I could quote it.
Since I can't 'prove' what he said, I will take what I said back.
A similar thing happened here in Michigan. The girl was pressured to give up her child for adoption and leave the father, cause he was an unbeliever.
She did, but eventually changed her mind, married the father and the case ended up in the courts because they wanted the child back.
It was before my days in TWI, but I came across the story on the internet - it made the papers. If I remember correctly, the father never signed over his parental rights so the adoption wasn't legit to begin with and I believe they did get their baby back.
My wife has never been able to bear children. I know her heartbreak well. It was not due to twi, however. Praise God she doesn't even know what twi is/was. She only knows that at one time I was in a cult. And that's enough for her.
I've been in the military since I was 17, through my twi years 85-87, and I have never been out of the service. I am 40y.o. now.
I bring up my military experience for a couple of reasons.
One, I know that der vey corpse was based upon the marine corps.
Two, military leaders cannot use love nor gun to motivate soldiers.
So how do these soldiers get motivated? How do these soldiers "get volunteered" to go to Iraq?
FEAR. Loss of benefits/retirement. Loss of income. Possible jail time in Ft. Leavenworth. Extra duty. Pay back bonuses or 'college money'. Fines.
Nope, no gun pointed to my head.
Why did I "volunteer" to stick around for 23 yrs? Please refer to FEAR.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
51
25
27
54
Popular Days
Sep 1
88
Sep 2
71
Sep 3
31
Sep 6
8
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 51 posts
oldiesman 25 posts
CM 27 posts
Ham 54 posts
Popular Days
Sep 1 2005
88 posts
Sep 2 2005
71 posts
Sep 3 2005
31 posts
Sep 6 2005
8 posts
CM
http://www.herbertwarmstrong.com/nobody_held_a_gun.htm
another example regarding this subject
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
restore is like restoring a car or a house
it's a process, takes time
it's not like your righteousness is deleted and restored, but made better as we build the building in the mind of fellowship with God that has been there since birth
yeah ok "without God and without hope"
why? because it's not recognized, sought after
seek and you will find
cuz it's really, really there....
you can't restore a house by holding a gun to it
you can't restore a car with threats
little by little
some things go quicker then other things
depends on the person
and on the Lord's timing
make any sense to anyone?
shoot, God is Love...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
markomalley
(((rascal)))(((MO)))
Ladies, words escape me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
just seeing God's forgiveness and experiencing it
will help to understand it
he's already forgiven things we don't even know about...
problem is, what we think he needs to forgive,
it gets stuck in our head and hinders us
recognize what has already been done
"it is finished"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Danny
Oldies will be gone for the weekend.
He is like talking to the devil himself.
I almost vomit just reading his garbage.
Its being molested all over. Just pick a subject. Same crap different day. Vp and twi was right. The comparison of their word to Moleck is so true.
The first and great comanment and the second like it. Where were they(twi). It was always about them and not God or love. It was always wrong and still is. The worship of a false God.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
lol Danny,
but he will change,
wether he likes it or not
one of those that maybe kicking
and screaming about it
but God Almighty is more powerful then
oldiesmen is
Link to comment
Share on other sites
imbus
I know oldies can be a pain in the butt but I veiw his views as the ying and yang of spirituality. With his opposition it clarifies and find tunes that which is completly compassionite,graceful and a few more Godly attributes... to my understanding. Without his opposition as antaginistic as it is, it helps to logically push circumstances to it compassionate conclusiuon. With his imput it certainly allows for me to make an informed decsion to keep pursueing the God of my understanding and not his.
The fact that he is done argueing for th weekend lets me know he take pleasue in being who he is. Argumentive and unreasonable. And that is O.K. You have to take a good look at the conterfit of a thing to be able to see the purity of the athentic. Thanks Oldies for making clear again the difference. I think I'll keep my God and leave your to your own demise. Have a good weekend!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
wasn't true,
that they didn't want to have abortions and were pressured to conform
until they did (no physical gun, but much social stigma)
or
that given the choice, they wanted to have the child but "leadership"
insisted they not,
or
that they thought abortion was WRONG no matter what the official
doctrine was, and they ONLY did it because someone was putting the
squeeze on them,
it occurs to me that you'd prefer to maintain your original POV rather
than actually increase in understanding.
Back then, they were actively pressured to do so, some freaked out
when they agreed under coercion, and some "leaders" were assigned
as "exit counselors" to get them to silence their consciences when
they KNEW something wasn't right. That was then.
Seems that for some of us, that's hardly "easy".
vpw rapes someone. That's evil. Some of us can't easily call it that.
No, it was meant to serve vpw under the cover of being agodly program. Was SOME good wrought? Sure. Was some BAD wrought?
Sure. Its motives were impure from its inception, which tainted the
reaults. The execution certainly was impure, which is why we're having
this discussion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BikerBabe
I would be that lady Rascal referred to in her post. I had just turned 18 and my mom still held the purse strings. It was either do as I was told or live on the street. I did as I was told and of course she told me what to do using TWI as her 'source of authority'.
I remember being taken to a clinic and sitting there in the reception area listening to the women talking to each other. Many were 'regulars' and were talking about their abortions as if it was an everyday thing. Some were hookers cause they were discussing not knowing which of their 'johns' was the father. I totally freaked out and ran out of there as fast as I could.
There was no talking me into going back inside that clinic, so my mom took me home and next arranged for me to have the procedure done outpatient at a hospital by a OB/GYN doc. I remember lying there in the room and hearing the doc walking down the hallway to the room. He was laughing and teasing the nurses as he walked, a few of the ladies would squeal and laugh as he patted them on their butts as he passed by them. Then he was in the room and put me under before I could run away again.
I supposed I should mention that I was told (without any tests being run) that the baby may not have been normal anyway, since his father had used drugs in his past. I was young enough I bought that lame excuse, of course today I know better.
Years later, 10 to be exact, I broke it off with a TWI boyfriend I had been dating for some time. I was living in a little cottage behind a main house in a safe neighborhood. I forgot to lock my door one night, something I did on occasion without any worries, but that night the ex got drunk and decided he was horny. He came to my place, late at night when I was asleep, let himself in the door and I woke up to find him standing over me in my bedroom. I know I don't need to tell anyone here what happened next.
About 2 to 3 weeks later I got very, very sick. My neighbor arranged to get me to the ER and they gave me some medicine to make me feel better, then handed me another script telling me to make sure I took the prenatal vitamins, they were really good. I freaked .. I had no idea I was pregnant. A few days later is when the bleeding started.
I couldn't afford to go into a hospital for a D and C to clean myself out after I started the miscarriage, so I went the only route I could afford .. an abortion clinic. As I laid there, awake, and listened as the doctor did the procedure, I couldn't help but think of the real abortion I'd had when I was 18. That is when it hit me soooo hard that I had murdered my 1st child. While I've repented and know God will forgive me, forgiving myself for not being stronger and fighting more doesn't come so easy.
Today I have taped to my monitor a lapel pin, still attached to the little plastic card. It is called Precious Feet and it is a pair of feet molded out of silver, the same size the feet of a 10 week old fetus in the womb are. I found it at a Christian Bookstore near where I live. I look at it many times a day and it helps me mourne the loss of that baby I killed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Actually, it was something he said on the board, it was this...
So,
unless it was something in chat or elsewhere,
he said he himself sent something that was screened, not that he was a
screener.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Goey
Are you guys still trying to convince Oldiesman?
This has been going on for years now.
Oldies and possibly a few others can only seem to view TWI in light of thier own experience.
As far as Oldies is concerned, your personal experience is meaningless, didn't really happen (or you are lying about it), if it contradicts his experience (real or imagined).
Why waste your keystrokes?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Frankly, I question the assertion that they view twi thru
their own experience.
They filter their own experience so heavily that it would
be more accurate to say
"they view twi through how they wish to remember it".
Frankly, if Oldies was sitting on one end of a couch, and
vpw was on the other end drugging and raping some chick,
I'd expect him to put a spin on THAT, not stop it from happening,
and deny it happened the way it unfolded before his very eyes.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
True Goey, and once again we are dragged off track ...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
templelady
{{{{{{Bikerbabe}}}}}}
That was the thought that hit me after the kids were gone. It's stayed with me to this day-
there are days I honestly feel that losing my kids was the punishment I had to pay for killing "David"
And {{{{{{{{Rascal}}}}}}}
We won't have to say we are sorry because our little ones have been with Heavenly Father this entire time and know what unconditional love and forgiveness means better than we do
Our reunion with them will be one of the blessings we will have.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Oh gosh cm, that link was SO applicable, and I missed it.
ALL you have to do is switch out armstrongs name and the name of his church and you have the pressures of twi.
Thanks friend.
It is amazing what one will do to avoid risking the displeasure of God and dissapointing of ones spiritual leaders....and it seems to be a fairly common occurance....the former jw`s say it is the same for them as well.
I think it is really despicable to envoke the threat of God to assure compliance.
I think about the intrusion into our personal lives, unpardonable by any standard , yet sop because they had the authority of their position as ministers of God.
The finances inspected, grown adults having to submit requests to go on vacations with every detail of who what where staying complete with phone numbers. Who we lived with....gosh I was ordered to move out of my Mom`s house where I was working and saving money (I wanted to go in the corpes) at leaderships demand, and with the roomate they chose.
I was required to sell my two horses, place my two dogs in homes, ordered to cease bringing the sick animals home from the pet store to nurture, ordered to stop humane society and sheriffs dept activities.
My tc even demanded that I sell him my car for a rediculously low sum before I went wow...damn him (I loved that car and had had it since high school)
I ignored my mothers pain and refused to go to my grandmothers funeral,
Turned my back on all friends and family who didn`t want the word
None of these were things that I particularly wanted to do, some were devistating, but was strong armed into compliance, because it was deemed that it was as necessary if I wanted to be my *best for God*.
This was happening in the late 70s early 80s, it was completely beyond reason in the 90s.
CM your posts are beautifull, thankyou.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Thanks ((mark)) it is ok, it has been many years, what I wrestle with now is not so much what we did ....but that we were led to believe by ministers we trusted...that God required it...whatever it was they were demanding we do...
Some folks were smart enough to see through the bs...I think maybe it had something to do with being very young and idealistic.
Of COURSE I feel stupid and naieve now for allowing anybody to have that kind of authority and power over my life...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Absolutely Danny, I have the same physical reaction myself at times, it can be like a kick in the stomache....
I wish the issues and ideas could be explored without having to get dragged off topic dealing with the finger pointing and attempts at recriminations....
I have to agree with Imbus somewhat, in that discussing this with the opposition, I am forced to logically consider what I believe and why...sometimes resulting in a much clearer pov.
Sometimes the finger pointing and mischaracterization ends up goading me into spewing way more information than I would have normally divulged otherwise, forcing examination of some of one`s dirtier little secrets...
I think this has to be part of the growing and healing process...if one has to spend all of your time trying to figure out how to defend the indefensible, I think that a person may end up being forever stuck in the quagmire of the warped perception of spirituality and the world that was presented in twi.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CM
Thanks rascal...
Seeing things thru the eyes of God's Love can turn the worst into what we have long for deep in our soul. To know the Love of Christ that passes knowledge and therefore hard to put into words.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
You do a pretty darned good job of putiing it into words CM.(edited for wrong initials lol)
Thanks
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
((((Mo)))) he cannot be punishing you for that.
Surely he wouldn`t be that vindictive?
Wouldn`t he have to punish each of us that way?
A lady once posted how she felt that damage sustained from her procedure and consequently being prevented from ever having children afterwards could have been her punishment.
I had to point out that I had done the same evil thing...and yet had gone on to have children...he certainly wouldn`t deny her children and then allow me to have some for the same sin?
I am just saying that I think God loves each of us a whole lot more than that.
If he is capable of sorrow, I`ll bet he was right their crying with us each one of us as we submitted.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brother Speed
The way I see it:
There are only TWO motivators is this world.
Love motivation, and
Fear manipulation.
Love is not what has transpired.
So that leaves what Oldies.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
On abortions and twi's wonderful family values...
I was 15yo, a ward of the court, and literally forced to have an abortion..."either in the hospital with your mother by your side, or here in my office, handcuffed, with two police women by your side." That was the 'choice' given to me by my probation officer.
I mourn my baby to this very day. I still carry terrible guilt, shame and sorrow. I am now 46yo.
This was pre-twi...but was the trigger that sent me looking into 'alternative' religions. TWI came into my life within the year.
When I was 18yo and pregnant with my daughter, it was a HUGE blessing from God that twi did not know early enough to tell me to have an abortion.
What happened instead was that twi did everything they could to talk me into giving my daughter up for adoption.
When I say 'twi' I mean my limb leader acting on what he claimed was instructions from HQ. I mean that twi, via the Kansas Limb, was going to handle all the legal proceedings and was going to give my baby to a corpse couple who couldn't have children.
Why would/did twi give a dang about my particular situation? Because my fiancé was going to go WOW and they didn't want me or my baby to interfere with his 'service to God'.
Well, he didn't go WOW that year. He instead married me and gave the marriage a real gung-ho try of 2 full months before he left me stranded.
After that, my Limb Leader kept heavy pressure on me to give up my baby to twi. There were daily phone calls from him. He even got my parents and my grandparents involved to 'convince' me.
In the meantime, my husband filed for divorce.
Although the divorce had not even gone to court yet, he was allowed to go WOW the next opportunity. He went WOW leaving me and my baby to exist on $90/mo.
No gun, though. A gun would have been kinder.
And, oh, did I forget to tell you about when I got pregnant with my second child? You know, in Alaska? When I was told by my Limb Leader, my twig leader, my branch leader and many of my co-twiggies that my child was 'a son of Satan'? Oh yeah...I think I've mentioned this before. Sorry for boring you all...
But again, no gun (well, one of them did sit outside my apartment building all night, night after night, for several nights, with a gun in his lap, but let's not count that...
--> ). A gun would have been too kind.
***************************
WordWolf,
What he said to me was edited out before I could quote it.
Since I can't 'prove' what he said, I will take what I said back.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Abigail
CW,
A similar thing happened here in Michigan. The girl was pressured to give up her child for adoption and leave the father, cause he was an unbeliever.
She did, but eventually changed her mind, married the father and the case ended up in the courts because they wanted the child back.
It was before my days in TWI, but I came across the story on the internet - it made the papers. If I remember correctly, the father never signed over his parental rights so the adoption wasn't legit to begin with and I believe they did get their baby back.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Brother Speed
I'm in the military, currently stationed in Iraq.
Thank you for your prayers.
All y'all are in my prayers daily.
My wife has never been able to bear children. I know her heartbreak well. It was not due to twi, however. Praise God she doesn't even know what twi is/was. She only knows that at one time I was in a cult. And that's enough for her.
I've been in the military since I was 17, through my twi years 85-87, and I have never been out of the service. I am 40y.o. now.
I bring up my military experience for a couple of reasons.
One, I know that der vey corpse was based upon the marine corps.
Two, military leaders cannot use love nor gun to motivate soldiers.
So how do these soldiers get motivated? How do these soldiers "get volunteered" to go to Iraq?
FEAR. Loss of benefits/retirement. Loss of income. Possible jail time in Ft. Leavenworth. Extra duty. Pay back bonuses or 'college money'. Fines.
Nope, no gun pointed to my head.
Why did I "volunteer" to stick around for 23 yrs? Please refer to FEAR.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.