Again, this was about pressure being applied by the utilization of God and scripture as manipulation, as a weapon to enforce action and behavior that we personally found abhorrant, and really had nothing to do with what God wanted and needed from us.....
It is`nt about abortion...it is about being forced to do that which we found repugnant...
Every one of us had situations where unpleasant people were foisted off as room mates ... or meddeling in our marriages....or finances....demanding weekly/hourly scheduals with even time for sex listed.....told where we could go on vacation and required to submit a travel log.... or how many children we were to have or whether we could have a pet or not.... what city we lived in ... harsh punishment of our children by others...
ALL things we put up with because it was presented as what God required of a faithfull doulos.
Again, no physical gun....but the risk of losing God`s favor and protection if we didn`t comply...
We were a group that took the scriptures very seriously.
So yeah, when the scripture said it, we believed God required it.
I thought twi was pretty libertarian about it.
you can do your utmost for his highest, or not, it was your choice.
twi version of doing your utmost was going on these programs, wow, corps, etc.
The Corps was suppose to be the greatest commitment you can make because you were giving everything else up to move the Word
it is in that context that these things are to be viewed not Molech Worship.
quote:
OM, the thing that gets to me all the time about you is that I keep forgetting that you were NOT one of the 'rank and file' folks...that you WERE one of the folks that did things like run around with the old vicster in the motorcoach...and read and answer his mail (so you've claimed).
Coolwaters, where do you get your stuff?
I rode on a motorcycle trip with Dr. & Mrs. Wierwille who were in their motorcoach (I was on my motorcycle) for one month in 1984, that's it.
But I still believe twi was once on the right track.
An honest assessment of this, at least for me, was, it HAD to be before "they" did stuff like bully LADIES into having abortions, council rape victims to not make waves, just suck it in for the "greater good", etc.
Mr. Hammeroni, it occurs to me that most of these women actually wanted to have the abortions to stay in the corps, or didn't really want to be mothers, or didn't look on these abortions as an evil thing.
That was then.
How it was viewed then is the proper way to view it since that is the context they were in.
It's so easy for us to view it 30 years later and say that it was evil but it wasn't meant to be an evil...the corps wasn't meant to be evil.
Maybe not. But their intentions certainly did not or will not nullify the effect.
Just one small point: they seemed so to be so "skilled" at "motivating" women to do this, would indicate, at least to me, that they were in this kind of business for a LONG time.
True, THAT was not the corps people signed up for, but that's what MANY got, nonetheless.
I don't think ANY woman wants an abortion. God just didn't make us like that..
It seems logical to me, that the threat of something FAR WORSE would make something really really bad, and certainly devastating, a "better" choice between two evils.
OM told me a long time ago that I shouldn't take any letters I received from vpw as actually from vpw himself because there were many people who opened and answered vpw's mail. I asked him how he knew this and he said that he used to do it for vpw all the time.
************************
Abortion wasn't legal until 1973.
What was the pregnancy policy/fetus theory of twi before 1973?
Thirty years later.. yep. Kinda "tough" how crap like this comes back and bites em in the a**, isn't it?
But its still current. I haven't heard them reverse their position that an abortion is no more morally harmful than getting a manicure..
What about CURRENT staffers? How many do you think were forced into this vile "procedure" to keep their positions? Ah yes.. they DID have a "moratorium" on pregnancies, did they not..
OM told me a long time ago that I shouldn't take any letters I received from vpw as actually from vpw himself because there were many people who opened and answered vpw's mail. I asked him how he knew this and he said that he used to do it for vpw all the time.
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oldiesman
It was pretty serious stuff we once were involved in.
"let good and kindred go", remember?
"consider everything else loss for Christ" was the attitude of commitment.
Looking back on that now, I'm pretty astonished that I was that commited at one time to a noble cause.
I've mellowed since then.
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rascal
Again, this was about pressure being applied by the utilization of God and scripture as manipulation, as a weapon to enforce action and behavior that we personally found abhorrant, and really had nothing to do with what God wanted and needed from us.....
It is`nt about abortion...it is about being forced to do that which we found repugnant...
Every one of us had situations where unpleasant people were foisted off as room mates ... or meddeling in our marriages....or finances....demanding weekly/hourly scheduals with even time for sex listed.....told where we could go on vacation and required to submit a travel log.... or how many children we were to have or whether we could have a pet or not.... what city we lived in ... harsh punishment of our children by others...
ALL things we put up with because it was presented as what God required of a faithfull doulos.
Again, no physical gun....but the risk of losing God`s favor and protection if we didn`t comply...
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rascal
Well just so long as the babies were murdered for a *noble cause* .....
I suppose God has a special place reserved in heaven for those of us who demonstrated our awsome committment.
I`ll bet he is so proud...
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Ham
Yep.. let good and kindered go.. but it goes on:
this mortal life ALSO.
And by God, with the right kind of pressure, you were gonna live up to that stupid commitment even if it KILLED you.
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rascal
...and some it did
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Ham
Yes, it did.
:(-->
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oldiesman
We were a group that took the scriptures very seriously.
So yeah, when the scripture said it, we believed God required it.
I thought twi was pretty libertarian about it.
you can do your utmost for his highest, or not, it was your choice.
twi version of doing your utmost was going on these programs, wow, corps, etc.
The Corps was suppose to be the greatest commitment you can make because you were giving everything else up to move the Word
it is in that context that these things are to be viewed not Molech Worship.
Coolwaters, where do you get your stuff?I rode on a motorcycle trip with Dr. & Mrs. Wierwille who were in their motorcoach (I was on my motorcycle) for one month in 1984, that's it.
I never read and answered his mail.
:P-->
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Ham
Same result, nonetheless.
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rascal
Taking the scriptures seriously?
Since when do the scriptures say that it is ok to do what twi is guilty of?
THAT is the trouble oldies...Neither the scriptures nor God required these things of the committed....
but twi SAID they did...and SIAD that we would lose God`s protection if we didn`t do what they said....
THAT is what is evil and sinister about this.
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Ham
Yep. The priests of Molech were pretty convincing too..
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Ham
"Nothing less than your best" for god.. ptooie.
That was the bullet IN the stinking gun..
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rascal
THAT sumerizes what it has taken nearly 6 pages for me to try to say in one clear and concise sentence .... ...thankyou Mr. Hamm
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CM
a literalist type standpoint kills
rather then letting the Lord open the eyes of our understanding, we were deceived by men and women who thought they knew what God wants
This is why I have to keep it simple.
LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE
LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE LIFE
letting this mortal life go does not mean physical dieing!
letting goods and kindred go does not mean get rid of them!
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oldiesman
This is what we do not really know yet.
But I still believe twi was once on the right track.
God is the ultimate Judge.
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Ham
An honest assessment of this, at least for me, was, it HAD to be before "they" did stuff like bully LADIES into having abortions, council rape victims to not make waves, just suck it in for the "greater good", etc.
But that would have been before MY time with TWI.
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oldiesman
Mr. Hammeroni, it occurs to me that most of these women actually wanted to have the abortions to stay in the corps, or didn't really want to be mothers, or didn't look on these abortions as an evil thing.
That was then.
How it was viewed then is the proper way to view it since that is the context they were in.
It's so easy for us to view it 30 years later and say that it was evil but it wasn't meant to be an evil...the corps wasn't meant to be evil.
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Ham
Maybe not. But their intentions certainly did not or will not nullify the effect.
Just one small point: they seemed so to be so "skilled" at "motivating" women to do this, would indicate, at least to me, that they were in this kind of business for a LONG time.
True, THAT was not the corps people signed up for, but that's what MANY got, nonetheless.
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Ham
I don't think ANY woman wants an abortion. God just didn't make us like that..
It seems logical to me, that the threat of something FAR WORSE would make something really really bad, and certainly devastating, a "better" choice between two evils.
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CM
ok oldiesman let's pick....say 400 years ago
what was viewed as right to do then?
was it?
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CoolWaters
rascal,
OM told me a long time ago that I shouldn't take any letters I received from vpw as actually from vpw himself because there were many people who opened and answered vpw's mail. I asked him how he knew this and he said that he used to do it for vpw all the time.
************************
Abortion wasn't legal until 1973.
What was the pregnancy policy/fetus theory of twi before 1973?
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Ham
Thirty years later.. yep. Kinda "tough" how crap like this comes back and bites em in the a**, isn't it?
But its still current. I haven't heard them reverse their position that an abortion is no more morally harmful than getting a manicure..
What about CURRENT staffers? How many do you think were forced into this vile "procedure" to keep their positions? Ah yes.. they DID have a "moratorium" on pregnancies, did they not..
Still all done in the name of the almighty..
If I were the lord, I'd hurl..
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CM
c'mon oldies....
was it?
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CM
.......
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oldiesman
Are you ok?
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