Yep. I remember a couple of times here, "they" seemed to encourage people to get rid of pictures and memorabilia- that somehow it was devilish, and "just get over it and move on in life, etc, etc, etc.."
The branch coordinator was upset to hear the deceased persons voice on the answering machine once.. could have been a lot more gracious about it.
TWI shows its spiritual bankruptcy exactly here. It was while standing outside the borrowed church after a TWI memorial service that I realized on a deep level that TWI was an inadequate body for my Christan life with God.
Rigid, know-it-all, doctrinaire systems like TWI's cannot flex and bend with life's deeper more difficult issues (mental illness is another one).
You get a tremendous sense of well-being on a superficial level - but how many Wayites survive tragedies with their 'positive believing' intact? I saw very few - though I did see victims shook to their very core (beneath the veneer).
Life hands out tragedies - you can 'believe' to avoid them in an organization that can't handle them.
Or you can accept them as mostly unavoidable and develop real, meaningful, genuinely spiritual, mature and lasting ways to righteously cope with them by God's help.
Yeah, I`d have to say that this was sop in some areas of twi....
One lady posted years ago, that when her young niece died ...while the parents were out of the house....(possibly at the funeral?) twig people went into the house and removed every picture and bit of memorabilia connected with the little girl...it was as if she had never existed.
One lady even posted once of noticing after several years, that a picture of a deceased pet was allowed to remain on the wall...but there wasn`t one of the deceased child.
Pretty brutal....but it was viewed as a shamefull thing...the parents believing had somehow failed the child....dove said that if she ever tried to speak of her son, she was shut up...it was viewed as being *negative* and she just needed to renew her mind.
I can't renew my mind to the point that I have copmpletely gotten over 3 senior proms, 3 junior proms, 3 first dates, 39 birthdays, 18 Christmas', Thanksgivings, 4 th of July's, Easter and other assorted holidays that I missed and my kids are still alive.
To know that there is no hope of ever regaining what was lost on this earthly plane and then to have even the smallest shred of comfort/memory removed by a bunch of ^&*(&^*&%^&$$%$&^*^(*&(
Eight years after my husband died while in TWI I'm still pi$$ed about them refusing to let my dad speak at the memorial service, his horrible arguement with Bob Moynihan in my kitchen and my parents refusal to attend the service at all after that spectacle.
As well as my brother who was turned away, not welcome at the service, because he's gay.
Then to put a cherry on this mess, Moynihan's TRASHING of my husband at a twi meeting within weeks of his death. I wonder if his still in twi family knows about that meeting.
I lost my mom shortly after I joined TWI. I was 23. She died of the worst of all sins, cancer. No one from TWI would help me take care of her or even visit me while I was taking care of her. No one from TWI came to the funeral (at a Synogogue).
A few years later my grandmother died. She was in the hospital while I was sitting through yet another class. My sister-in-law called me to tell me my uncle was disconnecting her life support and I should come right away. Leadership (can you believe I actually felt I had to ask PERMISSION to go see my grandmother on her death bed??????)told me the choice was mine, but of course pointed out I wouldn't be allowed to finish the class and would have to take it another time.
I didn't make it to Detroit in time, she was gone before I got there. Again, no one from TWI came to the funeral or comforted me while I mourned.
Amen Abi, that's the bottom line. I thought about all that after the dust settled when Bob died and realized that I hadn't been comforted, but was the one doing the ministering and comforting of every freakin body else.
I was ordered, condemned, ridiculed, but not comforted.
Shortly after I took the class my roomate died I had lived with him for over a decade .
I was so lost and lonely and shocked he had died in a fall in the house and hit his head .
It was awful and I wanted to go the funeral, but had a hard time going I was told "let the dead bury the dead ". it allowed me the excuse not to go say goodbye. My mom and sister both went and they only knew How much I had loved him.
I hope he forgives me.
my best story is a twi leader came to my house one day and let her self in. I was watching my sister's beloved cat while she was on vacation the cat got out when the she walked in she never told me. We spoke for a minute and my little child came in the house and told me the cat was dead hit by a car. she had to watch her being run over she was barely school age. we all flipped out screaming and all My leader could would say is it was only a cat. I threw her out of my house and my children NEVER wanted to go back to their house again.
I do not blame them . I do not blame her now (in case your reading this ) they come and read here I know.
but we needed help we were in shock and upset.
it gets better, so that weekend was the limb meeting the hostess another twig leader have alot of cats all over the place my kids point blank asked me Why they mattered but ours didnt.
they felt she killed the cat, which she did kind of. by not telling me she got out. she didnt know she would be killed.
In honestly a total stranger I had never met came to me with a cat in her arms and said she was sorry for my loss, at that limb meeting. some good alot of bad.
After a year and a half in the 17th WC, I left the program and it was during that year that my Dad died of a heart attack, totally unexpected, the Country co-ordinator who was RG at the time said to me "if you hadn't split from the WC program he would have never died, it was cause you broke your commitment to God that he died" Well for years I carried that with me, I was so afraid to make another commitment incase I backed out and would cause another tragedy.
Some eight years ago, a woman in my branch unexpectedly died of heart complications and her husband asked me to do the memorial service.
In my preparations for this memorial service, I received a phone call from Bob Moneyhand's secretary concerning this deceased woman's brother who was listed as mark/avoid in Florida.....and this brother had all intentions of attending this memorial service. Moneyhands had all but told this guy that he was NOT welcome to attend.....but told him that he'd have to phone me and get my permission.
Well.......I TOTALLY DISAGREED WITH MONEYHANDS ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION, and when I talked with this brother I gave him my gracious condolences and welcomed his arrival with open arms. He traveled thru the night by bus and a couple of guys in the branch picked him up at the bus station and housed him. We treated him as an equal, a brother in Christ.
The day of the memorial service, I made sure that the immediate family....including this brother....were comforted and supported throughout the day. After the service and all, I specifically invited him over to our house for the evening! At this invitation, he openly wept. He could not believe that we were treating him with such love. He reminded me that he was mark/avoid by Bob Moneyhands.......but I refuted it by saying that, on THIS day, it did not have any bearing on my actions. He needed to be comforted and uplifted.
The hardness of twi leadership in a memorial service setting was just ANOTHER RED FLAG that hurried my departure from twi. And, from what I heard about the treatment to the Wierwille family at the time of Don's death.......it was standard operating procedure by then.
God Almighty will deal with these injustices in due time.
An older woman in our fellowship died and the corp guy told every one in the twig when they could visit her in the funeral home, visit her family, and what food items to bring after the funeral. We were told not to contact her family, who were also in the twig, unless instructed to by him. At the funeral he showed absolutely no emotion, rushed through the service, and allowed no one to linger for a minute. We were rushed to the grave yard, had a quick service, and told to meet at the families home for a meal. After the meal we were told to immediately leave, and let the family work out the loss. I don't recall anyone helping the family afterwards deal with their loss, or even discuss it.
These few posts alone should be enough to make any intellegent, thinking, caring, half-spiritual participant in Way Ministries sit down, pray and begin the difficult process of finding the exit door.
Re: TWI attitudes and behaviors surrounding loss ... As I said before, it's HERE that TWI shows it's inadequacy as a servant ministry of God. It's like an ultraviolet light in a lab revealing someting the unaided eye may not be able to see.
Don't wait for your loved one's death. Or your own (for YOUR loved one's sake!)
Get to a place where you (they) will have the resources, the strength, the comfort, the fellowship, the competent pastoral care you (they) deserve. And even if you feel you (they) don't deserve better - hey, grace happens, thank God!
When my father was on his death-bed -- after years of illness, too tired to fight the fight anymore -- the "comfort" that I got from my LC was, "It's not to late for him to believe to be healed."
In other words, I was supposed to take what might be my last precious moments with my dad and preach to him about a ministry and the beliefs I held -- and he and I had discussed at length -- for 10 years already.
I was still very much a waybot back then but at least I had enough heart left in me to ignore that bit of advice, and just let my dad know I loved him right to the end, no matter what.
And yes, my hubby expected me to be all done mourning by the time I returned from the funeral. How utterly foolish. I've learned first-hand and through others that it takes the average person at least a year to completely get through the grieving process... each change of season, each new holiday, will bring with it memories and emotions you will have to deal with. There is no way to "make" yourself remember everything and deal with everything in a matter of days or even weeks. So I (apparently like countless other twiglets) mourned in secret.
These few posts alone should be enough to make any intellegent, thinking, caring, half-spiritual participant in Way Ministries sit down, pray and begin the difficult process of finding the exit door.
One would think that wouldn't one?
In our situation,I assumed it was powerful grief that caused my husband's family to carry themselves the way they did when he died. I got that they were following men they'd followed so long that it didn't occur to them to take the other road at this time.
But then I didn't either.
In hindsight, I should have packed a few things in a walmart bag, grabbed a few diapers for the baby, taken my husbands body and gotten on the plane with my parents.
(My parents have since told me that it was all they could do not to MAKE me go and definately considered pushing the issue drastically regarding my children).
Desperation is not the same as revelation.
Or revelation is not the same as desperation.
Whatever.
I understand now that TWI uses times of shock to their advantage. Suppose I had arranged for the transport of my husbands body and gone away?
What if I had not just gone through the motions of their memorial service?
What if I had not held my babies to me while their grandfather and the 'yeah right' man of god screamed at each other, but had gotten in to the fray and told them both to bite it?
Suppose I'd not accepted the invitation to have his cremated remains buried in the way woods, but tried to figure out paying for something else?
What if I'd insisted my brother be at the service?
I already know the answers to these questions, you probably do too.
Yeah, I think of the 'what if' when life happens and it's them.
When my wife's mother died the Way corps in our area was very good and very bad. The worst was the in residence corps person we were sponsoring at the time. So hardhearted and mean
about our loss in terms of comfort and sympathy. In seemed like her in residence training hardened her too much.Perhaps when her mother passed on she got the care she needed but she not have needed much.
God heals the heart not the way.
The Way is a dangerous cult. If you are in ....get out now.
We had a WC Alum who wanted desperately to have a child. She finally got pregnant and very excitedly shared her news after the requisite three months.
Soon after a sonogram showed something terribly wrong and she had to have an emergency abortion. Because she was so far along in her pregnancy she had to basically give birth to a stillborn baby. We were told this, but then told NOT to contact her and NOT to call her and that SHE REQUESTED to be left alone.
I spoke with her about this a few months later and she just poured her heart out to me and said how upset and depressed she was and that she couldn't figure out why not one person in the area seemed to care and not one person sent her a card, called to check on her or otherwise acknowledged her and her pain during that time. -->
WE HAD BEEN LIED TO! This poor woman went through the most horrendous ordeal of her life all by herself and thinking that no one cared about her and her husband all because of LIES from the local leadership. She was even more upset when I told her why no one had conacted her and how bad we all felt and how some of us cried for her pain and cried even more because we had wanted to comfort her but were told that she didn't want to even talk to us.
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Juan Cruz
TWI shows its spiritual bankruptcy exactly here. It was while standing outside the borrowed church after a TWI memorial service that I realized on a deep level that TWI was an inadequate body for my
skyrider
Some eight years ago, a woman in my branch unexpectedly died of heart complications and her husband asked me to do the memorial service. In my preparations for this memorial service, I received a pho
templelady
And I thought my nightmare was bad-- I guess it shows too things 1) someone somewhere has it worse than you 2) TWI is a bottomless pit of depravity
Ham
Yep. I remember a couple of times here, "they" seemed to encourage people to get rid of pictures and memorabilia- that somehow it was devilish, and "just get over it and move on in life, etc, etc, etc.."
The branch coordinator was upset to hear the deceased persons voice on the answering machine once.. could have been a lot more gracious about it.
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Juan Cruz
TWI shows its spiritual bankruptcy exactly here. It was while standing outside the borrowed church after a TWI memorial service that I realized on a deep level that TWI was an inadequate body for my Christan life with God.
Rigid, know-it-all, doctrinaire systems like TWI's cannot flex and bend with life's deeper more difficult issues (mental illness is another one).
You get a tremendous sense of well-being on a superficial level - but how many Wayites survive tragedies with their 'positive believing' intact? I saw very few - though I did see victims shook to their very core (beneath the veneer).
Life hands out tragedies - you can 'believe' to avoid them in an organization that can't handle them.
Or you can accept them as mostly unavoidable and develop real, meaningful, genuinely spiritual, mature and lasting ways to righteously cope with them by God's help.
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rascal
Yeah, I`d have to say that this was sop in some areas of twi....
One lady posted years ago, that when her young niece died ...while the parents were out of the house....(possibly at the funeral?) twig people went into the house and removed every picture and bit of memorabilia connected with the little girl...it was as if she had never existed.
One lady even posted once of noticing after several years, that a picture of a deceased pet was allowed to remain on the wall...but there wasn`t one of the deceased child.
Pretty brutal....but it was viewed as a shamefull thing...the parents believing had somehow failed the child....dove said that if she ever tried to speak of her son, she was shut up...it was viewed as being *negative* and she just needed to renew her mind.
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templelady
RENEW YOUR MIND?????
I can't renew my mind to the point that I have copmpletely gotten over 3 senior proms, 3 junior proms, 3 first dates, 39 birthdays, 18 Christmas', Thanksgivings, 4 th of July's, Easter and other assorted holidays that I missed and my kids are still alive.
To know that there is no hope of ever regaining what was lost on this earthly plane and then to have even the smallest shred of comfort/memory removed by a bunch of ^&*(&^*&%^&$$%$&^*^(*&(
is beyond anything I ever comprehended
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Ham
This DOES bring back an old, old memory..
The "leadership" in the "good old days"..
I lost both of my parents at a rather young age. They apparently thought that I had spiritual problems because- drum roll please-
I didn't over it.
That must have been why I was getting the same results they were, jumping through the same hoops..
Friggin idiots.
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Ham
All this crap is nothing new, to der vey.
I would date this in the spring of 1975.
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Ham
Good grief- you never get over it. I am not wallowing in self pity or anything, but I still miss my parents.
Oh well..
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rascal
I am sorry (((Mr. Ham))) No we never get over it.
You were never allowed to mourn ....
You were expected to suck it up n put on a happy face...
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Shellon
Eight years after my husband died while in TWI I'm still pi$$ed about them refusing to let my dad speak at the memorial service, his horrible arguement with Bob Moynihan in my kitchen and my parents refusal to attend the service at all after that spectacle.
As well as my brother who was turned away, not welcome at the service, because he's gay.
Then to put a cherry on this mess, Moynihan's TRASHING of my husband at a twi meeting within weeks of his death. I wonder if his still in twi family knows about that meeting.
I'm done shutting up about this stuff.
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Abigail
I lost my mom shortly after I joined TWI. I was 23. She died of the worst of all sins, cancer. No one from TWI would help me take care of her or even visit me while I was taking care of her. No one from TWI came to the funeral (at a Synogogue).
A few years later my grandmother died. She was in the hospital while I was sitting through yet another class. My sister-in-law called me to tell me my uncle was disconnecting her life support and I should come right away. Leadership (can you believe I actually felt I had to ask PERMISSION to go see my grandmother on her death bed??????)told me the choice was mine, but of course pointed out I wouldn't be allowed to finish the class and would have to take it another time.
I didn't make it to Detroit in time, she was gone before I got there. Again, no one from TWI came to the funeral or comforted me while I mourned.
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Shellon
Amen Abi, that's the bottom line. I thought about all that after the dust settled when Bob died and realized that I hadn't been comforted, but was the one doing the ministering and comforting of every freakin body else.
I was ordered, condemned, ridiculed, but not comforted.
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mj412
Shortly after I took the class my roomate died I had lived with him for over a decade .
I was so lost and lonely and shocked he had died in a fall in the house and hit his head .
It was awful and I wanted to go the funeral, but had a hard time going I was told "let the dead bury the dead ". it allowed me the excuse not to go say goodbye. My mom and sister both went and they only knew How much I had loved him.
I hope he forgives me.
my best story is a twi leader came to my house one day and let her self in. I was watching my sister's beloved cat while she was on vacation the cat got out when the she walked in she never told me. We spoke for a minute and my little child came in the house and told me the cat was dead hit by a car. she had to watch her being run over she was barely school age. we all flipped out screaming and all My leader could would say is it was only a cat. I threw her out of my house and my children NEVER wanted to go back to their house again.
I do not blame them . I do not blame her now (in case your reading this ) they come and read here I know.
but we needed help we were in shock and upset.
it gets better, so that weekend was the limb meeting the hostess another twig leader have alot of cats all over the place my kids point blank asked me Why they mattered but ours didnt.
they felt she killed the cat, which she did kind of. by not telling me she got out. she didnt know she would be killed.
In honestly a total stranger I had never met came to me with a cat in her arms and said she was sorry for my loss, at that limb meeting. some good alot of bad.
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Cowgirl
After a year and a half in the 17th WC, I left the program and it was during that year that my Dad died of a heart attack, totally unexpected, the Country co-ordinator who was RG at the time said to me "if you hadn't split from the WC program he would have never died, it was cause you broke your commitment to God that he died" Well for years I carried that with me, I was so afraid to make another commitment incase I backed out and would cause another tragedy.
Now I know better!!
Cowgirl
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skyrider
Some eight years ago, a woman in my branch unexpectedly died of heart complications and her husband asked me to do the memorial service.
In my preparations for this memorial service, I received a phone call from Bob Moneyhand's secretary concerning this deceased woman's brother who was listed as mark/avoid in Florida.....and this brother had all intentions of attending this memorial service. Moneyhands had all but told this guy that he was NOT welcome to attend.....but told him that he'd have to phone me and get my permission.
Well.......I TOTALLY DISAGREED WITH MONEYHANDS ASSESSMENT OF THE SITUATION, and when I talked with this brother I gave him my gracious condolences and welcomed his arrival with open arms. He traveled thru the night by bus and a couple of guys in the branch picked him up at the bus station and housed him. We treated him as an equal, a brother in Christ.
The day of the memorial service, I made sure that the immediate family....including this brother....were comforted and supported throughout the day. After the service and all, I specifically invited him over to our house for the evening! At this invitation, he openly wept. He could not believe that we were treating him with such love. He reminded me that he was mark/avoid by Bob Moneyhands.......but I refuted it by saying that, on THIS day, it did not have any bearing on my actions. He needed to be comforted and uplifted.
The hardness of twi leadership in a memorial service setting was just ANOTHER RED FLAG that hurried my departure from twi. And, from what I heard about the treatment to the Wierwille family at the time of Don's death.......it was standard operating procedure by then.
God Almighty will deal with these injustices in due time.
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Stayed Too Long
An older woman in our fellowship died and the corp guy told every one in the twig when they could visit her in the funeral home, visit her family, and what food items to bring after the funeral. We were told not to contact her family, who were also in the twig, unless instructed to by him. At the funeral he showed absolutely no emotion, rushed through the service, and allowed no one to linger for a minute. We were rushed to the grave yard, had a quick service, and told to meet at the families home for a meal. After the meal we were told to immediately leave, and let the family work out the loss. I don't recall anyone helping the family afterwards deal with their loss, or even discuss it.
Absolutely horrible.
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templelady
And I thought my nightmare was bad--
I guess it shows too things
1) someone somewhere has it worse than you
2) TWI is a bottomless pit of depravity
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Juan Cruz
These few posts alone should be enough to make any intellegent, thinking, caring, half-spiritual participant in Way Ministries sit down, pray and begin the difficult process of finding the exit door.
Re: TWI attitudes and behaviors surrounding loss ... As I said before, it's HERE that TWI shows it's inadequacy as a servant ministry of God. It's like an ultraviolet light in a lab revealing someting the unaided eye may not be able to see.
Don't wait for your loved one's death. Or your own (for YOUR loved one's sake!)
Get to a place where you (they) will have the resources, the strength, the comfort, the fellowship, the competent pastoral care you (they) deserve. And even if you feel you (they) don't deserve better - hey, grace happens, thank God!
Don't refuse grace - it's a sin.
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TheHighWay
When my father was on his death-bed -- after years of illness, too tired to fight the fight anymore -- the "comfort" that I got from my LC was, "It's not to late for him to believe to be healed."
In other words, I was supposed to take what might be my last precious moments with my dad and preach to him about a ministry and the beliefs I held -- and he and I had discussed at length -- for 10 years already.
I was still very much a waybot back then but at least I had enough heart left in me to ignore that bit of advice, and just let my dad know I loved him right to the end, no matter what.
And yes, my hubby expected me to be all done mourning by the time I returned from the funeral. How utterly foolish. I've learned first-hand and through others that it takes the average person at least a year to completely get through the grieving process... each change of season, each new holiday, will bring with it memories and emotions you will have to deal with. There is no way to "make" yourself remember everything and deal with everything in a matter of days or even weeks. So I (apparently like countless other twiglets) mourned in secret.
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Shellon
One would think that wouldn't one?
In our situation,I assumed it was powerful grief that caused my husband's family to carry themselves the way they did when he died. I got that they were following men they'd followed so long that it didn't occur to them to take the other road at this time.
But then I didn't either.
In hindsight, I should have packed a few things in a walmart bag, grabbed a few diapers for the baby, taken my husbands body and gotten on the plane with my parents.
(My parents have since told me that it was all they could do not to MAKE me go and definately considered pushing the issue drastically regarding my children).
Desperation is not the same as revelation.
Or revelation is not the same as desperation.
Whatever.
I understand now that TWI uses times of shock to their advantage. Suppose I had arranged for the transport of my husbands body and gone away?
What if I had not just gone through the motions of their memorial service?
What if I had not held my babies to me while their grandfather and the 'yeah right' man of god screamed at each other, but had gotten in to the fray and told them both to bite it?
Suppose I'd not accepted the invitation to have his cremated remains buried in the way woods, but tried to figure out paying for something else?
What if I'd insisted my brother be at the service?
I already know the answers to these questions, you probably do too.
Yeah, I think of the 'what if' when life happens and it's them.
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fortunateone
When my wife's mother died the Way corps in our area was very good and very bad. The worst was the in residence corps person we were sponsoring at the time. So hardhearted and mean
about our loss in terms of comfort and sympathy. In seemed like her in residence training hardened her too much.Perhaps when her mother passed on she got the care she needed but she not have needed much.
God heals the heart not the way.
The Way is a dangerous cult. If you are in ....get out now.
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outandabout
Oh, but it's "better" now.
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Belle
We had a WC Alum who wanted desperately to have a child. She finally got pregnant and very excitedly shared her news after the requisite three months.
Soon after a sonogram showed something terribly wrong and she had to have an emergency abortion. Because she was so far along in her pregnancy she had to basically give birth to a stillborn baby. We were told this, but then told NOT to contact her and NOT to call her and that SHE REQUESTED to be left alone.
I spoke with her about this a few months later and she just poured her heart out to me and said how upset and depressed she was and that she couldn't figure out why not one person in the area seemed to care and not one person sent her a card, called to check on her or otherwise acknowledged her and her pain during that time.
-->
WE HAD BEEN LIED TO! This poor woman went through the most horrendous ordeal of her life all by herself and thinking that no one cared about her and her husband all because of LIES from the local leadership. She was even more upset when I told her why no one had conacted her and how bad we all felt and how some of us cried for her pain and cried even more because we had wanted to comfort her but were told that she didn't want to even talk to us.
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ljn698
death of a loved one was always an awkward time in TWI world
it seems if you acted sad then the deal was you were "out of fellowship" and you should snap out of it or else you're no good
but then if you didn't act sad enough then you were an uncaring lout and therefore no good
i think i learned the rule of thumb for grieving the loss of a loved one while on the WOW year. (1984-1985)
it all depends on WHO dies as to how sad you're allowed to be
don't refuse grace-- it's a sin!! (DIG IT!)
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Shellon
whoa
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