"the Way:Living in Wonderland"

[def59]

Vpw drones:

If Whiteside is accurate and vpw said all women are liars, then why should we believe her book?

[Ham]

Def, not quite so sure about that. Bullinger Publishing Trust sold rights for publication to Kregel and others I think.. even der vey bought rights (shared with others though..) to publish the Companion Bible. A few hundred copies were marred with the label "American Christian Press" during their brief ownership of said rights..

[def59]

since ewb was dead, they could use his writings and no heir was going to speak up, they could lionize and criticize him when it suited their purpose.

With Leonard being alive, they had to watch their step.

[Ham]

True.. that makes a little more sense to me now.

[Ham]

But still, with the raw copying.. surely did not spare him the plaigiarism they abundantly showed to others..

Hmmm.

Makes me wonder a little more.

vic knew the guy, personally.

Perhaps vic was counting on BG being "a nice guy" about it all.

[WordWolf]

Let's see, where were we...

pg-209, vpw on the genesis of the White Book.

quote:

"Somewhere in there I wrote the first holy spirit book. I

can't remember exactly what year."

1954.

quote:

I'd been working those 385 scriptures and they began to all

fall into place."

quote:

"We're having the sixth edition

printed now of that book: Receiving the Holy Spirit Today.

It's a great piece of research.

Lots of the stuff I teach is not original. Putting it all together

so that it fit-that was the original work. I learned wherever I

could, and then I worked that with the Scriptures. What was right

on with the Scriptures, I kept; but what wasn't, I dropped.

Vale from Florida was the one who taught us about interpretation and

prophecy. But he didn't understand the other manifestations. It took

BG Leonard and others to teach us healing and believing.

But in the holy spirit field, our piece of research is the most

thorough and original coverage of the subject. And believe me, I've

seen about everything in that field. No one really goes into it."

pg-210

quote:

"Do you know that three times in those early years people

tried to kill me?" he remarks suddenly, facing me squarely. I wait,

hoping for details, but Doctor relaxes his shoulders in a barely

noticeable gesture, and then launches into a new theme.

[WordWolf]

pg-210, 211, he speaks about Dr E.E. Higgins.

She's the one who would call him up every night, asking

what God taught him that day.

quote:

"God told me to teach the Word of God to others, but He

never told me to how many people. She used to come to Van Wert

on weekends. She'd stay at the "Y". She'd say it was like

coming home. She gave me my first copy of Bullinger's

How to Enjoy the Bible. She said, when she first heard

me teach, that I taught like he wrote, and I'd never met the man

or even read his stuff.

quote:

"She taught me the great respect and love I have for the

human body-the tenderness of it. She loved the body, like I love

the Word of God. She just stood in awe of how magnificently it was

put together. She rid me of my hang-ups, that false stuff, and

taught me the beauty of the human body. We used to talk about the

human body-where the life was located."

How many people see that little comment as a dire warning,

given 20/20 hindsight?

[ToadFriend]

I know this won't be a popular post in this thread, but I believe that God made it snow for Victor Paul Wierwille ... just as I believe God could make it snow for any of us, if the need was there.

TF

[rascal]

Wordwolf, that IS ominous in light of what we now know...shiver

[WordWolf]

Well,

it wasn't exactly on topic for this thread (at least until we discuss the exact

quote), but you brought it up.....

=====

Could God make it snow for any of us?

I believe all the Christians here will say "yes".

(I'm supposing that you mean the "snow on the pumps".

The Tulsa snow job was confirmed to be a untruth in great detail.)

There's several sub-issues here. Was this supposedly REAL snow, or a VISION of snow?

All indications SEEM to be that it's supposed to be REAL snow.

If it WAS, then it arrived in exactly ONE spot, with some of it instantly on the

ground, and some of it heavy in the air. It then VANISHED.

Could God do that? Well, yes. Whether you think God would go thru all that trouble

when a VISION would work as well is a matter of opinion.

If it was a VISION, then this goes back to the original question-

which it would anyway. The supposed snow was to confirm that God would teach

vpw God's Word like it had not been known since the 1st century, if vpw would teach

it to others.

The teachings and practices vpw taught and instituted bear NO resemblance to the

1st century church.

They decentralized authority-he concentrated it in one person-himself.

They spread out the money where there was need-vpw concentrated it at hq, where it

STAYED.

Their leaders led austere lives, Paul working a secular job at one point.

vpw piled up luxuries for himself of nearly every kind.

Their emphasis was on spiritual basics. vpw emphasized intellectual study.

They had signs, miracles and wonders as day-to-day events. vpw-well, I suppose he

saw a FEW here and there.

Furthermore,

"The Word like it hadn't been known since the 1st century" is a FICTION. In the 1st

century, they had the Old Testament (the Torah), and a few of the letters where they

could be found. It sounds like such a neat slogan, though.....

Finally, although vpw taught others, EVERYTHING he taught (95% at the bare minimum)

can be traced DIRECTLY to the work of ANOTHER Christian which was ALREADY in effect

at the time. pfal was an cut-and-paste of the work (primarily) BG Leonard-

whose class vpw copied over word-for-word originally, and thus it was known to all

students of BG Leonard before vpw came around-

(secondarily) EW Bullinger-whose books had been around for perhaps half-a-century

before vpw heard of him, thus it was known to all his readers-

(tertially) JE Stiles-whose work and book on the holy spirit were ALSO in effect

long before, and whose book "Gifts of the Holy Spirit" was copied over almost

word-for-word into the 1st edition of the White Book.

Thus, the only things that had not "been known" before vpw ripped off the works of

others was a handful of names-"manifestation","administration"-if those weren't a

direct ripoff of someone else as well. Thus, the entire 1942 promise completely

failed to come to pass. vpw taught others, but at no point did he teach them

"God's Word as it has not been known since the 1st century" (for all the reasons I

just gave.) Since God does not fail His promises, the logical conclusion is that this

was NOT a promise of God. According to Scripture, if a man claims to speak in the

name of the LORD and what he says does NOT come to pass, then he is a FALSE PROPHET.

The only question then remaining is:

Did vpw invent this 1942 promise?

or did vpw receive a vision from a source other than the True God?

The possibility of him actually receiving this as revelation from God, as you see,

is excluded based on its phrasing and its results.

Given that BG Leonard wrote something similar, vpw read his book, and, some years

later began making this promise, it is most likely that vpw intentionally made it up

based on BG Leonard's writings.

=======

Knowing all this, you of course may STILL believe God made it snow for him.

However, all the evidence argues AGAINST it.

Just as Sarah did not exercise "blind faith", but rather

"judged Him faithful who had promised" (aka GOD), most of us will choose to

"exercise our senses to discern good and evil"

and say this is so unlikely based on a MOUNTAIN of evidence, that it's not even

worth considering once it's been exposed.

[skyrider]

quote:

Someone in Tulsa gave me the name of B.G. Leonard, or sent my

name to him, I can't remember which. Anyway, after Tulsa I began to get his monthly

newsletter from Calgary, Alberta, Canada.

I never read that thing. It was so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word. I never

read it for two years. And then a couple of years after Tulsa, I had been working the Word

about laying on of hands. I'd worked every scripture and seen how they worked together

perfectly.

That particular day, just after I'd worked it through, I'd gotten B.G. Leonard's newssheet.

Well, I just crumpled it up and threw it in the wastebasket as usual. I did some other

things, and later that day I took the wastebasket out to burn the rubbish. As I shook it

out, this thing, which was on the bottom, fell out on top of the heap in the incinerator--

opened.

There staring me in the face was an article about laying on of hands. I read the first two

lines fast, and they are perfectly accurate. So I pulled the whole thing out of the fire

before it burned and read it through. The whole article was exactly what I had come up with

in my months of research.

vpw's slanted viewpoint doesn't fit.

Yeah, right......a monthly newsletter that was "so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word." In one breathe, vpw loathes leonard's work.....in another, it is PERFECTLY ACCURATE.

And the highlighted point that veepee wants to make........"the whole article was exactly what I had come up with in my months of research."

[Brother Speed]

Awww,

I wanted to say, "all women are liars...and SHE teaches vpw about the human body."

Things that make you go hmmm.

[Brother Speed]

Yep, Skyrider.

almost sounds like 'but I wrote it first, he plagiarized me'

[Brother Speed]

but more like 'since I came up with in on my own, its not like plagiarism or anything.

[Ham]

quote:

"Do you know that three times in those early years people

tried to kill me?" he remarks suddenly, facing me squarely. I wait,

hoping for details, but Doctor relaxes his shoulders in a barely

noticeable gesture, and then launches into a new theme.

Anybody ever get the details on this? Who was it? Angry husband? Cast iron skillet bearing wife?

Or is it some kind of ellipsis:

"three times in those years, people tried to kill me..(and we all know we wouldn't have the verd like it has not been known since the first century if they had succeeded..)"

[WordWolf]

vpw was expounding on his trip to India. He said Bishop K.C. Pillai invited them to

India in 1955.

pg-215.

quote:

"Bishop Pillai was a converted Hindu who opened up for us the Eastern customs behind many scriptures. He had taken the class and had been teaching Orientalisms to us here. He said that Hindus would believe and would want to hear the Word of God.

We went as a family, Dotsie and I and the three oldest children. John Paul was two

months old, so he stayed with his aunt, Dotsie's sister. It had never happened before that a man of God and his whole family went on a missionary tour. And I went unaffiliated, not under the flag of any denomination."

First one in history???? How about that.

pg-216.

quote:

"The non-Christians, they were fabulously responsive. I met with

governors-of-states and other top men in the Central Government of India, as well

as leading professionals and businessmen. I was the first minister invited to

speak before the Jain convention.

They responded because we brought with us only a teaching and research ministry

of blessing to the people, irrespective of religious allegiance, with no

acquisition of property and with no threat to the freedom of the nationals.

The response of the denominations-my own included-was supremely non-loving, even

vociferously opposed. The National Council of Churches in India informed me that

I was not representing the Evangelical and Reformed Church, which I never

claimed anyway. From then on I stopped all mission support except one dollar

per year.

quote:

"I could see that America was at a very low ebb spiritually. We had a lot

of religion, but we sure lacked knowledge of the accuracy and integrity of

God's Word, so that Christianity was just a name, a flag, a title.

pg-217.

quote:

"I wrote a long study of my research and observations called

the Dilemma of Foreign Missions. That caused some furor from the top

echelons. But all that has passed. I just needed the freedom to work and teach

to whoever was hungry. I didn't need the pressure, the man-made rules.

That's when I resigned in 1957 and we moved to that house on South Washington

Street. I asked twelve people to stand with me for one year. But many of them

were not in the curch. I was still hung up on the denomination. I told others

to stay with the church. I didn't want to disrupt anything, cause division or

hardship. I didn't want to hurt anyone, so I told them to stay with the

denomination."

My, THAT attitude certainly changed...if this account was true, of course.

He made it a hobby to attack denominations whenever he could.

[WordWolf]

pg-217 into 218, vpw now catches up to UH's account, in 1957.

quote:

"One night Harry came in and said, 'If you want to have the headquarters at

our old farm, I will remodel the house and pay for it, and we'll start the work

there the best we can.'

I called a Board of Directors meeting. The president wanted me to move to Troy,

and he got turned off. I must have lost thirty people that day who thought I was

totally wrong in my leading.

We started the work at the farm in New Knoxville in 1959, and moved there in

February of 1961. We opened the work in the basement of our house. That fall we

had much more interest than I'd anticipated, so we began work on the

Biblical Research Center."

Um, he had already left his organization with 10 people. Who was on this

Board of Directors, and what was there to "direct"? Sounds like his story runs

aground here.

[WordWolf]

pg-220, some more history.

April to July of 1961, they had a class in April, running to July.

Then Pillai ran a class on Orientalisms, then they ran an Advanced class.

quote:

"But in 1962, we began classes in Estangelo Aramaic with Dr. Lamsa himself.

He is the foremost scholar in Aramaic in the world even today. At that time, he was

working on his own translation of the Old Testament which was later published.

Several in that class had great ability-Bernita Jess who teaches our Aramaic class

now and Jim Chamberlin-those were two of them anyway."

(pg-221)

Summer camps run in Wisconsin in 1959, Indiana in 1960, and Miamisburg, Ohio in

1961.

quote:

But in 1962, we had our first Summer School and camp on the farm, and every

summer since then. It's a fantastic program. Renewed Mind is one of our classes.

Where else in the world can someone go and hear teaching on how to renew your

mind? Nowhere. That's why our camps and Summer School program are unique.

You can't get such teaching anywhere else in the world."

[Ham]

quote:

I called a Board of Directors meeting. The president wanted me to move to Troy,

and he got turned off. I must have lost thirty people that day who thought I was

totally wrong in my leading.

Makes me wonder about this too. Any of these people still alive? I'd like to hear the other side of the story..

[Ham]

Funny how the first time around, when I read that thing, I swallowed it all up like it was gospel truth..

[skyrider]

quote:

That's when I resigned in 1957 and we moved to that house on South Washington

Street. I asked twelve people to stand with me for one year. But many of them

were not in the curch. I was still hung up on the denomination. I told others

to stay with the church.

So.......after FOUR years of "pfal" still very interest or involvement.

So.......in 1957, veepee finally cut the church umbilical cord.

So.......twi really DID NOT start in 1942 if the HONEST TRUTH WERE TOLD.

[Ham]

quote:

You can't get such teaching anywhere else in the world

And keep saying that loud and long enough, perhaps people will believe it..

[Ham]

quote:

He loved me, and I learned some stuff from him. He had tremendous believing.

That's why I LOVE THE GUY

Explains everything.. why else would he leave him unnamed in the foundational class?

Love em and leave em I guess..

[A la prochaine]

OH MY GOD!!!!

I'm only in the middle of page 3 and I can't get over all the "I did..." "I said..." "I saw.."

VP speaks he learnt so much from everyone..but it sounds more like...

"They agreed with what I believed...and therefore, they were right on because of it!"

PUKE PUKE PUKE

[Oakspear]

"I called a Board of Directors meeting..."

Who was on this Board of Directors, and what was there to "direct"? Sounds like his story runs aground here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mrs. Wierwille mentioned a Board of Directors in Born Again to Serve. It was apparently made up of PFAL grads, but would not be the rubber stamp body that Wierwille envisoned, so he disbanded it and formed the Board of Trustees, with his brother and his old croney Ermal Owens as his yes-men