"the Way:Living in Wonderland"

[jkboehme]

Per WW:

"...Actually,

I'd say the growth of the ministry was due to 3 factors:

A) the class itself-which was Leonard's

B) the taping of the class-which was just filming Leonard's work

C) the Christians on the field-without which fewer people would have

taken that class. They were the "advertising" and Leonard

provided the substance. vpw himself was purely in Marketing there..."

____________________

It seems to me that the "marketing" done by VPW/LCM/TWI was of the multi-level marketing scam variety, aka pyramid or ponzai scheme. Compare TWI's unethical income via AB$ & the selling of classes to the typical pyramid scheme. Heavy at the bottom of the pyramid with newbies recruiting ever more newer newbies, with the fund$ proceeding to the top of the pyramid, the top being the BOT/BOD/Top leadership. Probably ~ 90-95% of the funds were used for the self-aggrandizement of the top leadership, with the remainder going for additional window dressing for the ever increasing bait (grace on the surface) & switch (a core & Corps of hyper-legalism with exploitative manipulation and control via FEAR).

[Belle]

Exactly JKBoehme!

There have been discussions on that here before and it's a very accurate description. The sad thing is that all the people at the bottom of the pyramid were not only working for free, they were also PAYING to run the class.... It was their electricity, the wear and tear on their carpet, their chairs/tvs/vcrs, their toilet paper, their snacks, coffee and cups.... those at the very bottom were spending money on things TWI should have been providing out of the money they were charging for the class.

All they got for all the time, hard work and money they spent on the classes in their homes was a homemade card....whoopee!! :blink:

[templelady]

All they got for all the time, hard work and money they spent on the classes in their homes was a homemade card....whoopee!!

Gosh Darn it, Belle< I want you to know we worked HARD on those cards--under direction of the Mogite of our area

[WordWolf]

Right.

In a traditional Ponzi scheme,

the entire thing is a scam.

The people on the top get most of the money,

and the people below them at each level get money from the level

below THEM.

That means the only level getting NO money is the bottom level.

In twi, there wasn't that distribution. It all went to the top.

===

Actually, I'm unsure if the Territory Coordinators

received a salary. Looking back,

it's my impression that the 89 split sent the

corps-grad Territory Coordinators

looking for cars and jobs.

If the coordinators are considered Ponzi levels,

then they DID get something back.

Everybody Limb level or higher had a house,

car and a comfortable salary.

=========

Before the 89 split,

the people who ran classes received some thanks

from the GRADS who retook it, who passed the hat

as a gesture of thanks.

Of course, locally, we filled the classes with as

many people as we could-new students, staff

and grads. (No, just the coordinator got a gift.)

So passing the hat around among the grads

covered more than just a Pez dispenser.

I know one class, the coordinator was given

a leatherbound Companion Bible.

I'm unsure of the others.

However, that was the LOCALS paying,

and, of course, not a plugged nickel came from

the powers-that-be.

With the exception of the tapes and books,

EVERYTHING came from us locally.

====

AFTER the 89 split,

all us locals left, and all the fun left with us.

[WordWolf]

The film was made fall of 1967.

He was making plans to visit the fellowship in San Jose, when he

makes another ashcan discovery...

"The day before I left to go out there, I saw an article in Christian Life magazine. The truth is I never read Christian Life. I used to get it, look over the titles and pictures and throw it into the wastebasket. But that particular time, I was led to look through that magazine, and I saw in it an article about a group of young hippie Christians doing missionary work in Haight-Ashbury. I read it, and Father said, 'Put it in your briefcase.'"

pg-231, he arrives in San Jose, and tells them he wants to go to

Haight-Ashbury. From there he goes to "the Living Room", a

Christian house in Haight-Ashbury. There he meets Ted Wise, who

invites him to Novato to the House of Acts...

pg-231. At the House of Acts with Ted...

"I went with him. We got there. The women were in the kitchen: Sandi Heefner, Judy Doop and Ted's wife. It was interesting because they were mixing up stuff-a big green salad in a bowl, bread, doing a whole trip.

I don't know how many we had around the table- maybe 16 -and then the

men came home, Steve Heefner and Jimmy Doop. They had just spent the day witnessing in Haight-Ashbury. We all had supper together. The women cleaned the table and all the men yakked.

And finally we got around to the Word. The discussion centered around the Holy Spirit. "

"They'd been reading the book of Acts, and I asked them if they wanted

me to teach them the Holy Spirit. They were hungry, but skeptical. It was 2am by the time I finished teaching from the book of Acts. Then they all got into a circle, and I started to lead them into speaking in tongues. None of them had spoken in tongues. The most interesting thing was how they all fought over the Word-Steve and Ted and Jim. They'd argue. I'd let them, then I'd give then the Word. Then they'd

argue some more, then I'd go on to another verse."

He said he liked how they were candid and upfront- if they didn't like you, they told you, if they did like you, they told you that. However, this is an amazing quote...

"And I liked especially the tenderness among them. You see,

they themselves had previously been on sex and dope, so they didn't

find fault with everything all the time. They'd hug and kiss each

other and that I liked. They were always affectionate. I saw a lot that I liked there."

==================

The women cleaned the table and all the men yakked

OK...couldn't pass this one up!!! Wonder if his respect for Jim, Steve and Ted went up 99% when he saw this!! <!--graemlin::bang:--> gag!!

This whole books drips of ME MYSELF AND I!!! It's absolutely PATHETIC!!!

"The most interesting thing was how they all fought over the Word-

Steve and Ted and Jim. They'd argue. I'd let them, then I'd give then the Word.

Then they'd argue some more, then I'd go on to another verse."

It's all there... my oh my oh my!! Pass the barf bag PLEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAASE!!!

====================

"And I liked especially the tenderness among them. You see,

they themselves had previously been on sex and dope, so they didn't

find fault with everything all the time. They'd hug and kiss each

other and that I liked. They were always affectionate.

I saw a lot<BR>that I liked there."

Egads....heeeeeeeellllpp!!!!!

"You see, they themselves had previously been on sex and dope, so they didn't

find fault with everything all the time"

What does this mean exactly? What is VP insinuating here? Was he possibly saying that he believed these young people to be 'liberal' with their ideas of sex and perhaps extra-marital sex was acceptable to them????

MY GOD...I think I need a tranquilizer <!--graemlin::(-->

[templelady]

"The day before I left to go out there, I saw an article in Christian Life magazine. The truth is I never read Christian Life. I used to get it, look over the titles and pictures and throw it into the wastebasket.

AGAIN??!!

I mean didn't we just go through this with Leonard??

VPW seems to spend a lot of time pointing out how he discarded anything anyone else had to say UNLESS there was some benefit to him

Or maybe I'm just jaded

[WordWolf]

AGAIN??!!

I mean didn't we just go through this with Leonard??

VPW seems to spend a lot of time pointing out how he discarded anything anyone else had to say UNLESS there was some benefit to him

Or maybe I'm just jaded

Maybe it's some subtle psychological thing.

You know-

he wants to conceal how important something is to him,

so he labels it "trash" and claims he threw it in the trash.

So, to himself he denies it had value.....

..unless it's about how he

"rescued it from the trash",

so he's entitled to call it his.

You know,

like if someone was discarding a dining-room-chair,

and you took it home and cleaned it up, it's yours.

So, he picked up Leonard's stuff, and the hippies,

and so they're his, now.

[Ham]

You see, they themselves had previously been on sex and dope, so they didn't

find fault with everything all the time

So the victster could be just another one of the "in crowd"..

[Oakspear]

Who was paying for all these subscriptions that got thrown in the trash?

[A la prochaine]

WW,

"I saw them in some old newsletters displayed at BG Leonard's 90th

birthday party, which we hosted for him. I was just casually leafing through some old

ones and you can imagine the jolt I got when my eyes landed on a familiar picture.

It was the old "1st Piffle Class" photo I'd seen so many times."

Is Evan saying that the actual first pictures of the the 1st PFFIL classes were actually pictures of Leonard's classes and not VP's?

[WordWolf]

Who was paying for all these subscriptions that got thrown in the trash?

Funny how that question didn't hit me until now, and I posted the thing

twice already. It only hit me on this re-read now myself.

(Seconds before I read Oakspear's post,

but hours after he posted it.)

If vpw was telling the truth,

the Christian Life subscription was wasted, and was

poor stewardship.

I once had a gift of a subscription to Christianity Today,

and I read that thing cover-to-cover,

and sometimes quoted things from it.

(Rarely, I even made photocopies.)

Then again,

it's possible they had some sort of free program

for preachers, and he just lined up for the free buffet.

Even so, it's STILL poor stewardship of the things

of God.

[alfakat]

Ala...yes, it was Vic running the 1rst PFAL class...ceppin' it was leonard's class he was running, under the title of... Receiving the Holy Spirit, NOT PFAL. In Other Words, veepster LIED and SAID it was HIS class but he was just running BG's class.... classic vicster all da vey..... <_< :wacko: :blink:

[templelady]

Okay,, ***DEEP BREATH HERE***

Are you telling me that

VPW ran Leonards class "Receiving the Holy Spirit" under Leonard's Direction FIRST????

And then turned around and re named it PFAL and ran it under his own name????

[WordWolf]

"As you know, Wierwille had recently taken Leonard's class.

He returned to O-hiya to teach Leonard's class with Leonard's blessing.

The accompanying article was about this Rev. Wierwille teaching CTC's

Gifts of the Spirit course to members of his congregation in O-hiya.

Turns out wierwille lied to the man, co-opted the man's work as his own.

FAMILIAR PATTERN!"

Here's what that means in plainer English.

vpw takes Leonard's class.

vpw REtakes Leonard's class.

vpw then goes off for a few months by himself.

vpw tells Leonard

"I'd like to run your CTC's Gifts of the Spirit course to my local congregation."

Leonard concludes that this would bless that single congregation,

and approves this, giving his blessing for this one Gifts of the Spirit class.

vpw then prepares to run "his" class-using Leonard's material but

slapping his name on it,

and calling it "Power For Abundant Living" rather than "Gifts of the Spirit".

While vpw tells the new students it is HIS class,

he tells Leonard he is running LEONARD's class,

and even provides Leonard with a copy of the class photos for

Leonard's scrapbook.

Leonard, trusting other Christians as he does,

believes vpw and does not realize vpw is lying through his teeth

until later,

after vpw has run several of "his" classes.

================

templelady:"

Okay,, ***DEEP BREATH HERE***

Are you telling me that

VPW ran Leonards class "Receiving the Holy Spirit" under Leonard's Direction FIRST????

And then turned around and re named it PFAL and ran it under his own name????"

===========

Not quite.

vpw ran Leonard's class, period.

He got Leonard's approval to teach LEONARD's class, and told him he would be

teaching LEONARD's class on a one-time basis.

He then taught LEONARD's class, and told Leonard that was what he was doing....

but he told all the STUDENTS

"This is MY class on Power For Abundant Living."

He then completed his deception to Leonard by sending Leonard a copy

of the class photos, saying

"Here's some photos of the students in your class."

Meanwhile, the students never HEARD of Leonard NOR his class.

They are told this is vpw's class.

Leonard then believes there are no further runs of HIS class.

Meanwhile, vpw runs more, and never tells Leonard....

Edited October 14, 2005 by WordWolf

[WordWolf]

'a la prochaine':

"And I liked especially the tenderness among them. You see,

they themselves had previously been on sex and dope, so they didn't

find fault with everything all the time. They'd hug and kiss each

other and that I liked. They were always affectionate.

I saw a lot that I liked there." Egads.

You see, <BR>they themselves had previously been on sex and dope, so they didn't<BR>find fault with everything all the time

What does this mean exactly? What is VP insinuating here? Was he possibly saying that he believed these young people to be 'liberal' with their ideas of sex and perhaps extra-marital sex was acceptable to them????

================

Well,

rather than my opinion,

let's have some quotes from an eyewitness.

Jim Doop said the following,

which you all may wish to memorize:

[About an incident with vpw]

"As we relaxed and had a second drink, he asked Judy and me to describe

what it was like to attend an orgy. We were taken back by the question

and embarassed by it, because even though it was part of our testimony

in our deliverance from sin to God's righteousness, no one had ever

asked us to describe what it was like to go to an orgy.

We found his curiousity shocking.

But we gave him a brief description which is really all we could give him

since our encounter with an orgy had been so brief.

We had attended one orgy sponsored by the San Francisco

Sexual Freedom League, but we were so overwhelmed by the

spectacle that we had left after twenty minutes.

'You know that's all available," V.P. said.

'God put it in I Corinthians 7:1 which He said

"It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

If it wasn't available to have sex outside the marriage

God would have said "best" instead of "good".

I could not believe what I was hearing.

I responded with 'I just thank God that He pulled

our souls out of that pit of debauchery.'

When Judy and I went to bed, I said to her,

'I don't believe what he said tonight,

and I'm going to forget it.

I must have misunderstood him.' "

==============

Let me repeat that, because it sounds VAGUELY IMPORTANT.

[About an incident with vpw]

"As we relaxed and had a second drink, he asked Judy and me to describe

what it was like to attend an orgy.

We were taken back by the question and embarassed by it,

because even though it was part of our testimony

in our deliverance from sin to God's righteousness,

no one had ever asked us to describe what it was like to go to an orgy.

We found his curiousity shocking.

But we gave him a brief description which is really all we could give him

since our encounter with an orgy had been so brief.

We had attended one orgy sponsored by the San Francisco

Sexual Freedom League, but we were so overwhelmed by the

spectacle that we had left after twenty minutes.

'You know that's all available," V.P. said.

'God put it in I Corinthians 7:1 which He said

"It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

If it wasn't available to have sex outside the marriage

God would have said "best" instead of "good".

I could not believe what I was hearing.

I responded with 'I just thank God that He pulled

our souls out of that pit of debauchery.'

When Judy and I went to bed, I said to her,

'I don't believe what he said tonight,

and I'm going to forget it.

I must have misunderstood him.' "

=============

In plain English,

vpw asked for details about an orgy.

He then said "that" was "all available"-

that is, that God did not disallow it.

"All that" was an orgy.

vpw said God permitted ORGIES.

Not just premarital sex-

which IS wrong, and you don't need

to read Schoenheit's paper to know this-

but ORGIES.

Edited October 14, 2005 by WordWolf

[templelady]

So since the wording is it is GOOD NOT to touch a woman as Opposed to it is BEST NOT to touch a woman

WE get to toss the "NOT" Out???

Isn't tossing the NOT changing a word and isn't that PI

And Isn't PI The big NO

BUt silly me NOT is a form of NO therefore NOT And NO form a double negative which forms a positive---so NOT really isn't NOT

((**where are those barf bags from the other thrtead--I need a dozen or so""))

[Oakspear]

'You know that's all available," V.P. said.

'God put it in I Corinthians 7:1 which He said

"It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

If it wasn't available to have sex outside the marriage

God would have said "best" instead of "good".

The sex aside, this was typical Wierwille "biblical research": take a verse, decide that it doesn't mean what it plainly says, and supply the words that God would have used if God meant what everybody thought it meant

[WordWolf]

Well, not always.

A lot of the time, a plain meaning was retained.

The times when it was discarded are when vpw wanted it to say something

else. As a result, a convoluted explanation developed where what it

MEANT wasn't what it SAID, but rather what vpw WANTED it to mean.

I imagine there was also some alternate rendering of "fornication"

as in "flee fornication" and

"to avoid fornication" and so on,

which would allow him to not flee or avoid it.

[WordWolf]

================

Ok,

so someone might wonder,

aren't we taking this too far?

Granted, vpw claimed orgies were FINE with God.

And of course, this was after he'd been

DRINKING and not careful who he confided in.

("In vino, veritas.")

That, in and of itself,

does not indicate that vpw would actually

PARTAKE of orgies or sex, or that he would

actually drug women or anything.

It indicates a pattern of thinking that would

ALLOW such a thing, however.

From there, however,

you can follow the trail of broken lives.

vpw told a few people in his inner circle

that it was fine, and publicly said it was

wrong while privately acting as if it was right.

One poster discussed how this was "practiced"...

"You know what else is sick? Some of the parties these girls, not yet at the drinking age

of 21, went to...Well, there was Howard and other old guys and they had booze.

The got these kids drinking and then these old guys started kissing on them with an

overall orgy flavor to the event.

Now suppose one of your kids said, 'Mom and Dad, I went to this lecture of Jesus. It was

great! But then I was asked to a party and the old minister and other old male church

people gave us drinks and were pulling us on top of them touching us!

Mom and Dad, I was so drunk one of the old men placed his hand under my panties!'

We would all be outraged and go do some @$$kicking.

Yet here some of us sit and discuss if maybe VPW was a little horny or the 70's were

a free sex period...I grew up in the 70's and I was not into free sex and the idiot

Weirwille tried to get me...."

====

I think we all are familiar enough with the first-hand accounts of women who vpw

himself tried to force himself on, claiming it wasn't a sin, claiming God APPROVED

it..... I think we all are familiar enough with the first-hand accounts of women who

were victims of the people led into this sort of felony by their criminal ringleader.

Seeing the early stages of this being set,

seeing slips of the tongue,

this is disturbing, but, I believe,

necessary to see.

[WordWolf]

pg-233, vpw tells the Board of Trustees about the group, and they

offer to bring them onsite for a Summer School.

"We said we'd pay, and they'd be on a work scholarship.

They all copped out except Steve and Sandi and their son, Stevie.

I liked them all. I thought they were wonderful-free and honest. But

I saw their congestion, their lack of knowledge, lack of grounding

in the Word; and I knew that their communal living could not survive."

I especially LOVE LOVE LOVE to compare this next quote with a

young person called vpw...

"He was like lots of the young people today. He didn't know

how to work. But I knew you had to have discipline, self-discipline,

to really work that Word and learn. If you can't work in a field

or dig a ditch for a day, what kind of discipline would you have

working the Word of God?"

=======

Uncle Harry W:

"Our Dad said 'You haven't even learned to work well on the farm.

You'll never make a good preacher.'

But VP used to practice by preaching to the trees." Uncle Harry

chuckles at the recollection. "He'd go out to the woods for hours.

Dad thought he was loafing, but I knew what was going on. He was

preaching to the trees."

Really, Harry? You admitted you didn't SEE him most of the time.

Why wasn't he doing his chores in sight and preaching to the

animals on the farm, or, you know, the other kids, people who might

actually hear something of use? Maybe Dad was on to something.

David was a good shepherd FIRST, then a good man of God....

============

Judging from what he's saying,

the adult vpw said the teen vpw was disqualified for the ministry...

Edited October 15, 2005 by WordWolf

[WordWolf]

pg-234, we see Donnie Fugit arrive in summer 1969, speak to

someone in Wichita who was from Rye, NY-which led to the

beachhead in Rye.

In 1968 (yes, he jumped back a year...)

"Then Johnny Townsend, another young man who had the class

in the army, came here that summer in 1969. He stayed here two years.

Like so many of these young people,

he'd rather read than work.

He learned the Word, and he learned to work and study here.

He'd spoil this, spoil that, and then he'd learn. Now he heads

the state of Kansas, and he is the spiritual coordinator of the Western Region."

I don't know what the army teaches people about working, but I

get the impression that they work pretty hard there, even in

peacetime. vpw seems to disagree-at least at this moment.

=========================================

Once again,

I'd love to contrast vpw's comments about one youngster with his

"performance appraisal" by his own father.

"Uncle" Harry gave some interesting biographical details that help

fill in some of the blanks, especially about the youngest son in

the family, vp. page 77.

" We all had chores to do: milking, feeding the cows, horses, hogs and sheep."

"When VP was in high school, Dad wanted him to take over the farm later.

You see, that was the tradition-that the youngest son take over the farm,

just as he had done. But VP emphatically said no.

He'd always liked to study and said he wanted to study for the

ministry. Our Dad said 'You haven't even learned to work well on the farm.

You'll never make a good preacher.' "

=====================

Edited October 15, 2005 by WordWolf

[Akarizmatik1]

:blink:

I am only on post 100...

Oh My Goodness.......

Oh My Goodness........

I can not believe how hornswaggled I have been all these years. LOL. I was informed I would not stand back in 1980...just months after my 1st PFAL class...and did in fact leave the ministry on my own, just one year after my WOW experience, but thought the undoing of the ministry was due to the Martindale experience....I truely believed all those lies.

I went back into the ministry years later, and was in fact asked to leave because of my addiction to gambling at the time. Don 't most faiths attempt to HELP the members of their flock?...I just KNEW "I was not worthy of the family"

I still loved God, and I still believd, and still spoke in tongues, and still thought that VPW was one of the greatest Man of God since Christ himself! I never knew these things, but I am so glad to know now, and the facts are evident...I AM NOT THE GREASESPOT I WAS LEAD TO BELIEVE I WOULD BE!!!!

Thank you so much for the enlightenment. I will continue reading later...

All this time.....how wrong could I have been...to think the sun rose and set in vpw. :unsure:

My God! I feel so crapped on

[WordWolf]

Welcome to the Cafe.

As you can see, not everything was as it appears.

As you can see, there is life after twi.

[Brother Speed]

OMG! It takes me sooo long to read these posts! What with all the running to the bathroom because I'm so urpy and all. Technicolor yawn and then brush my teeth and then get back to reading maybe a day or too later. And I used to have a stronger constitution. Maybe it was the blinders that I had been wearing that kept me from feeling such ilk. Ewww, sorry gotta run again....

[templelady]

I thought I'd lived the worse of it--but everytime I think I can't find out something NEW & WORSE I do.

The pain, the anquish, the torn and shattered lives; all because of one man---It breaks my heart.

Welcome Akarizmatik1--take your time it's a lot to digest but we are all here for you.

PS GOOD MORNING IRAQ!!!!!

Edited October 16, 2005 by templelady