Question , If VPW never taught these things How would he know that absolutely nobody could receive them????
Sounds like Ego boosting to me
Obvious in 20/20 hindsight, isn't it?
Now, I bought this book and put it on a shelf.
So, I have an excuse. This was the first time I've ever READ IT.
Those of you who read it once and didn't run screaming THEN
are having a VERY surreal experience NOW.
"There's not a question that cannot be answered biblically."
Yep. But is it the RIGHT answer? Or does every question live in a biblical context?
"Why is the sky blue"..Better get out a concordance to find the answer to this one.. Maybe the book should have been named: "Da Vey. vic (and later loy), living in la-la land".
"It was like a burning light. It just cooked me on the inside"
Questionable. Sounds more like an LSD experience.. maybe somebody slipped the old codger a "mickey".
"Some things God taught me that night in Tulsa, I've never taught- no one would have been able to
receive them"
Perhaps this supposedly validated his claim that he forgot more than that poor ole preacher ever knew.. at least to him.
"The holy spirit field-that's the field God raised me up for."
There's something ABSOLUTELY fishy about this statement. It's too packaged or something...can't quite put my finger on it? OH RIGHT!!!! The smart-A$$, motor-cycle maniac...was being raised for the Holy Spirit field? How could God limit himself like this???
And to claim such a thing? WOWZA...he surely had NARCISSISTIC balls.
It was like a burning light. It just cooked me on the inside
when I had my experience I felt the inside of me was as warm from the light as the outside-when it was over I felt like I had been exposed to sunshine on the inside--so I don't discount this as being a vaild feeling of the manifestation, that said--there are many possibilities
1- VPW actually experiencecd the manifestation
2- VPW wanted so badly to experience SIT he thought he experienced the manifestation and had heard from others how it felt
3- VPW experienced the manifestation didn't experience the feeling that others had but said he did
4- He lied about the whole SIT experience
5- He experienced it but somewhere down the road figured out how to use the experience to make his stature in the eyes of men grow.
"when I had my experience I felt the inside of me was as warm from the light as the outside-when it was over I felt like I had been exposed to sunshine on the inside--so I don't discount this as being a vaild feeling of the manifestation, that said--there are many possibilities
1- VPW actually experiencecd the manifestation
2- VPW wanted so badly to experience SIT he thought he experienced the manifestation and had heard from others how it felt
3- VPW experienced the manifestation didn't experience the feeling that others had but said he did
4- He lied about the whole SIT experience
5- He experienced it but somewhere down the road figured out how to use the experience to make his stature in the eyes of men grow.
Personally I'm for #5."
I see #1 and #5 as the same option.
By vpw's own doctrine,
#3 would be the same as well.
He said God never guaranteed a feeling.
He spoke of people's expectations colouring their results.
That's when he spoke about people "slain in the spirit" and so on.
As to #2 and #4,
I think #2 is possible.
I find #4-where it differs from #2-to be too improbable for me to accept.
I can believe vpw didn't experience it.
I can believe vpw WANTED to experience it.
So, I can believe #2.
I don't think it's credible that even his desire to experience was a total lie.
I think that there was SOME basis for a conviction.
The man RATIONALIZED his way thru many things,
but I don't think he set out with the express, premeditated purpose of lying.
I think, no matter what, he WANTED the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, he either experienced it, or wanted to so much he made something up.
In this case, I think it is most likely he DID experience something.
His story rings true, as written.
It's also consistent with his positions in pfal about the Holy Spirit field.
He took what WORKED for Stiles and repackaged it.
If he'd wanted to fake it, there were earlier steps he could have taken and saved time.
If you want to discuss the specifics of the LDS faith start a thread and ask your questions in the doctrinal forum--elsewise please stop trying to derail Wordwolf's thread
Ok, let's see....This episode we'll see BG Leonard, what vpw admits to learning from him, what vpw says about him, and the 3 things that vpw finds quoteworthy from BG Leonard.
pg-205.
===
"But how did you get the class started?" I asked him. "It was happening while you were here in Van Wert."
"After that trip to Tulsa lots of things fell into place. God just keeps giving it to you as you can take it. Someone in Tulsa gave me the name of B.G. Leonard, or sent my name to him, I can't remember which. Anyway, after Tulsa I began to get his monthly newsletter from Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I never read that thing. It was so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word. I never read it for two years. And then a couple of years after Tulsa, I had been working the Word about laying on of hands. I'd worked every scripture and seen how they worked together perfectly. That particular day, just after I'd worked it through, I'd gotten B.G. Leonard's newssheet. Well, I just crumpled it up and threw it in the wastebasket as usual. I did some other things, and later that day I took the wastebasket out to burn the rubbish. As I shook it out, this thing, which was on the bottom, fell out on top of the heap in the incinerator--opened. There staring me in the face was an article about laying on of hands. I read the first two lines fast, and they are perfectly accurate. So I pulled the whole thing out of the fire before it burned and read it through. The whole article was exactly what I had come up with in my months of research. So I went in and called B.G. Leonard on the telephone. He told me he loved me, but I couldn't come up to see him because he was in the middle of a class. So I took the next plane to Calgary. His place was called the Christian Training Centre."
Now here are ALL the direct quotes from Leonard.
Please note that, like everyone else, he can ID vpw on sight.
"And then he started preaching. Boy, oh, boy, was he with it! He taught his heart out for another hour and a half. Then everyone left, and I just sat there. He said, 'Hi, ya, there, Wierwille, I thought I told you, you couldn't come.' And I said, "Yeh, but I didn't hear you.' 'Well, where are you staying?' he asked me, and I told him. And he said "Why, you're in the middle of the red light district. That's all whores!' "
That was ALL the direct quotes from Leonard.
pg-207.
"He loved me, and I learned some stuff from him. He had tremendous believing. That's why I love the guy."
"The summer of 1953, our whole ministry went up-Dotsie and Donnie and some of the others from Van Wert. We took his whole trip- really learned a lot about the other manifestations of the holy spirit. But he worked from personal experiences. I worked what he taught from the accuracy of the Scriptures. When I came home, I made up my mind that I was going to tie the whole thing together from Genesis to Revelation. So I did, and in October, I had the very first 'Power for Abundant Living' Class. At that time, the Foundational Class and the Advanced Class were together-then whole thing in two weeks. But the syllabus today is basically the same. The basic principles from the Word are the same. The class has filled out. But I knew the greatness of our age-the age of holy spirit and that every truth must fit in the framework of the manifestations. I just had to teach it to somebody."
"I taught without a syllabus, but the class was the same. You could throw the syllabus away now and I could still teach it. It's a burning reality in my soul."
Anyway, after Tulsa I began to get his monthly newsletter from Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I never read that thing. It was so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word. I never read it for two years
So he has this great spritual revelation in TULSA
Knows how to speak in tongues
HAs the Holy Spirit (direct communication with God)
And with all this he doesn't get the message that he is suppossed to read the newsletter.
BUt wait he says 'it was so badly priinted you could hardly make out a word' Whos Neliie! that means--can it be!?!?--that he actually did read it at least some of the time -- but that contradicts-----
But the syllabus today is basically the same. The basic principles from the Word are the same. The class has filled out
it's the basically the same that worries me--I mean I can understand how a teaching or class in the five senses world evolves--But per VPW God was right there showing him--so it should not have needed to be changed at all.
So I went in and called B.G. Leonard on the telephone. He told me he loved me, but I couldn't come up to see him because he was in the middle of a class. So I took the next plane to Calgary. His place was called the Christian Training Centre." ... "And then he started preaching. Boy, oh, boy, was he with it! He taught his heart out for another hour and a half. Then everyone left, and I just sat there. He said, 'Hi, ya, there, Wierwille, I thought I told you, you couldn't come.' And I said, "Yeh, but I didn't hear you.' 'Well, where are you staying?' he asked me, and I told him. And he said "Why, you're in the middle of the red light district. That's all whores!' " That was ALL the direct quotes from Leonard.
pg-207.
"He loved me, and I learned some stuff from him. He had tremendous believing. That's why I love the guy."
And that's why I didn't listen to him about his Red Light District comment.
"The summer of 1953, our whole ministry went up-Dotsie and Donnie and some of the others from Van Wert. We took his whole trip- really learned a lot about the other manifestations of the holy spirit. But he worked from personal experiences. I worked what he taught from the accuracy of the Scriptures.
That's why my class is better than his.
When I came home, I made up my mind that I was going to tie the whole thing together from Genesis to Revelation. So I did, and in October, I had the very first 'Power for Abundant Living' Class. At that time, the Foundational Class and the Advanced Class were together-then whole thing in two weeks. But the syllabus today is basically the same. The basic principles from the Word are the same. The class has filled out. But I knew the greatness of our age-the age of holy spirit and that every truth must fit in the framework of the manifestations. I just had to teach it to somebody."
Oh, but not for free.
"I taught without a syllabus, but the class was the same. You could throw the syllabus away now and I could still teach it. It's a burning reality in my soul."
And you have to have it in three installments so that I can make bunches of moola.
He told me he loved me, but I couldn't come up to see him because he was in the middle of a class. So I took the next plane to Calgary. His place was called the Christian Training Centre." ... "And then he started preaching. Boy, oh, boy, was he with it! He taught his heart out for another hour and a half. Then everyone left, and I just sat there. He said, 'Hi, ya, there, Wierwille, I thought I told you, you couldn't come.' And I said, "Yeh, but I didn't hear you.'
So let's see--VPW is told that Leonard is in the middle of a class and he doesn't want to see VPW right then. I mean he is told by Leonard himself
SO what does VPW do??
Disregards Leonards express wishes and shows up anyway
(so if VPW told you you couldn't come to the ROA and you showed up anyway how long did it take the "bless patrol" to send you packing???)
THen when confronted about his misdeed
(we all know VPW was big on confronting)
Does VPW
1-acknowledge his error
2-apologize for disrespecting Leonards wishes
or
3-blow Leonards justifiable annoyance off.
Scenario
A Piffle class is running-VPW is teaching it live-suddenly in walks someone that not only isn't registered but someone who was told by VPW himself that he couldn't attend---
"And then a couple of years after Tulsa, I had been working the Word
about laying on of hands. I'd worked every scripture and seen how they worked together
perfectly."
"There staring me in the face was an article about laying on of hands. I read the first two
lines fast, and they are perfectly accurate. So I pulled the whole thing out of the fire
before it burned and read it through. The whole article was EXACTLY WHAT I HAD COME UP WITH IN MY MONTHS OF RESEARCH."
Another "amazing" coincidence- first he comes up with Bullinger's stuff independantly, other folks stuff, and now, B.G.'s.
It's just "amazing" to me..
A little side note, hopefully not too far off the beaten track..
Why is it that the bookstore offered other works, like Bullinger, Kenyon, etc.- but NOT Leonards?
Leonards materials were available for purchase, just as well as the others.
The name "Leonard" was almost whispered under vic's Drambuie soaked breath..
All I heard about Leonard was this little exerpt in TWLIL.
I dunno- I can only guess, but perhaps vic was TERRIFIED at the prospect of "HIS" people picking up Leonard's book, and reading RHST line by line, and word by word..
There is some logic in this question, I think..
Lessee. vic "borrowed" a plenty from Bullinger, Kenyon, etc. Yet he still allowed their works to be sold in the bookstore. Why?
But we get to Leonard, who was still alive at the time..
Why not Leonard's materials? The idea that Leonard's works were somehow "messed up" or "incomplete" do not agree with this statement:
"There staring me in the face was an article about laying on of hands. I read the first two lines fast, and they are perfectly accurate"
"The holy spirit field-that's the field God raised me up for."
There's something ABSOLUTELY fishy about this statement. It's too packaged or something...can't quite put my finger on it? OH RIGHT!!!! The smart-A$$, motor-cycle maniac...was being raised for the Holy Spirit field? How could God limit himself like this???
And to claim such a thing? WOWZA...he surely had NARCISSISTIC balls.
Wonky :blink:"
========================
The part that still leaves me in amazement is that some people read that statement of
"Someone in Tulsa gave me the name of B.G. Leonard, or sent my name to him, I can't remember which. Anyway, after Tulsa I began to get his monthly newsletter from Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I never read that thing. It was so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word. I never read it for two years. And then a couple of years after Tulsa, I had been working the Word about laying on of hands. I'd worked every scripture and seen how they worked together perfectly. That particular day, just after I'd worked it through, I'd gotten B.G. Leonard's newssheet. Well, I just crumpled it up and threw it in the wastebasket as usual. I did some other things, and later that day I took the wastebasket out to burn the rubbish. As I shook it out, this thing, which was on the bottom, fell out on top of the heap in the incinerator--opened. There staring me in the face was an article about laying on of hands. I read the first two lines fast, and they are perfectly accurate. So I pulled the whole thing out of the fire before it burned and read it through. The whole article was exactly what I had come up with in my months of research."
===
vpw's slanted viewpoint doesn't fit. Yeah, right......a monthly newsletter that was "so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word." In one breathe, vpw loathes leonard's work.....in another, it is PERFECTLY ACCURATE. And the highlighted point that veepee wants to make........"the whole article was exactly what I had come up with in my months of research."
Yep, Skyrider.
almost sounds like 'but I wrote it first, he plagiarized me'
but more like 'since I came up with in on my own, its not like plagiarism or anything.
BTW,
Brother Speed,
vpw DID say Leonard relocated him to a decent hotel.
I didnt include it because I wasnt trying to retype every word in the book-
I only wanted what was germane to the discussion.
I'm not sure if you meant
"and vpw stayed in the Red Light District".
I am a little curious how someone could be in the 'middle" of a Red Light District
and not even notice.
I mean, back before Times Square was "cleaned up",
if you walked down the average street,
you found out you were in a Red Light District of some kind.
Guys would whisper stuff to passers-by.
In broad daylight.
I don't know what it was like at NIGHT back then.
(Nor do I wish to.)
Perhaps the normal "I'm scandalized" reaction of most ministers
wasn't quite so hair-trigger in vpw.
'templelady':
"So let's see--VPW is told that Leonard is in the middle of a class and he doesn't want to see VPW right then. I mean he is told by Leonard himself.
So what does VPW do??
Disregards Leonards express wishes and shows up anyway
(so if VPW told you you couldn't come to the ROA and you showed up anyway how long did it take the "bless patrol" to send you packing???)
THen when confronted about his misdeed
(we all know VPW was big on confronting)
Does VPW
1-acknowledge his error
2-apologize for disrespecting Leonards wishes
or
3-blow Leonards justifiable annoyance off.
Scenario
A Piffle class is running-VPW is teaching it live-suddenly in walks someone that not only isn't registered but someone who was told by VPW himself that he couldn't attend---
What would VPW DO???
the ego and self justification is unbelievable."
======
And yet,
you have an example RIGHT THERE to compare it with-
Brother Leonard's response.
He was within his rights to send vpw home, or at least out of his classroom.
Yet he did not.
Why?
I'm thinking he decided it was more loving to let him stay even though,
"technically",
it would be wrong.
Knowing how vpw would snap people's heads off, this just makes HIM look worse by
"After that trip to Tulsa lots of things fell into place. God just keeps giving it to you as you can take it. Someone in Tulsa gave me the name of B.G. Leonard, or sent my name to him, I can't remember which. Anyway, after Tulsa I began to get his monthly newsletter from Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
I never read that thing. It was so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word. I never read it for two years. And then a couple of years after Tulsa, I had been working the Word about laying on of hands. I'd worked every scripture and seen how they worked together perfectly. That particular day, just after I'd worked it through, I'd gotten B.G. Leonard's newssheet. Well, I just crumpled it up and threw it in the wastebasket as usual. I did some other things, and later that day I took the wastebasket out to burn the rubbish. As I shook it out, this thing, which was on the bottom, fell out on top of the heap in the incinerator--opened.
There staring me in the face was an article about laying on of hands. I read the first two lines fast, and they are perfectly accurate. So I pulled the whole thing out of the fire before it burned and read it through. The whole article was exactly what I had come up with in my months of research. So I went in and called B.G. Leonard on the telephone. He told me he loved me, but I couldn't come up to see him because he was in the middle of a class. So I took the next plane to Calgary. His place was called the Christian Training Centre."
==========================
"I never read that thing.
It was so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word.
I never read it for two years."
So,
he claimed he never read it.
And, he claimed it was ILLEGIBLE- "you could hardly make out a word."
"I just crumpled it up and threw it in the wastebasket as usual."
In the rubbish, the paper, which was CRUMPLED- OPENED.
Unless he had a less-efficient manner of crumpling, he balled up the paper without looking-
then it was UNBALLED.
Must have been a "miraculous unballing."
The article stared him in the face.
He read the first 2 sentences, and they were accurate.
Ok,
start with a barely-legible sheet of paper.
Then CRUMPLE the paper.
Then uncrumple it and try to READ it.
It is now LESS than barely-legible.
How did he read it?
He said nothing about a miraculous reading or anything.
Ok,
let's suppose all of that happened-somehow-exactly as reported.
vpw works on something, and Leonard worked on something,
and they came up with the same results.
(I've had that happen before, myself.)
vpw's response?
He has to go from Ohio up into Canada NOW and see Leonard.
Face-to-face.
Why?
Was it because Leonard could have saved him "months of research",
"The summer of 1953, our whole ministry went up-Dotsie and Donnie and some of the others from Van Wert. We took his whole trip- really learned a lot about the other manifestations of the holy spirit. But he worked from personal experiences. I worked what he taught from the accuracy of the Scriptures. When I came home, I made up my mind that I was going to tie the whole thing together from Genesis to Revelation. So I did, and in October, I had the very first 'Power for Abundant Living' Class. At that time, the Foundational Class and the Advanced Class were together-then whole thing in two weeks. But the syllabus today is basically the same. The basic principles from the Word are the same. The class has filled out. But I knew the greatness of our age-the age of holy spirit and that every truth must fit in the framework of the manifestations. I just had to teach it to somebody."
"I taught without a syllabus, but the class was the same. You could throw the syllabus away now and I could still teach it. It's a burning reality in my soul."
============
Ok, here's the timetable.
vpw takes Leonard's entire class (not an interrupted one) in the summer of 1953.
Let's say it was the beginning of summer to allow for maximum time.
6/21 is the FIRST day of summer.
So, figure he takes Leonard's "whole trip"-
at least 2 weeks of concentrated material.
Let's say three weeks and say he took EVERYTHING.
That takes him thru the end of May and into the middle of June.
vpw claims he then took Leonard's classes and "tied the whole thing together from Genesis to
Revelation", and added Scripture to Leonard's class.
If vpw is being truthful, that means he would need to completely deconstruct Leonard's class,
then completely rebuild it. He'd need to find the Scriptures to match EVERYTHING Leonard
taught.
Do you know how LONG that would take?
When CG attempted to take the Advanced class (1/3 the material) and improve on it,
he worked on it sporadically over YEARS. It would have been at least 6 months of concentrated work-
and that was TWEAKING and IMPROVING-not completely taking it apart and building a NEW CLASS.
That would have taken one person over a year if working completely alone.
So vpw takes Leonard's class, and a few months later, runs his first PFAL class.
He has NOT had enough time to build an entirely new class.
He had time to make a few cosmetic changes.
He had time to memorize blocks of Leonard's class.
So, realistically, this could NOT be that different a class.
Further,
if he rebuilt it, he would have a definite outline for doing so, between DEconstruction and REconstruction.
It should have been relatively simple to take the most basic outline, add a paragraph on each
session's contents, then hand it off to a secretary for typing and photocopying.
That would have been a rough syllabus.
Ok,
so either vpw told the truth or he did not.
He did not have sufficient TIME to have done this in the manner he stated.
Further,
the 1.0 version of anything is rather different, say, than the 4.5 version.
That's because there's years of refinement and improvements over years,
and the makers find better ways of doing things.
vpw claims the 1.0 version of pfal is largely the same as the FINAL result.
Something like saying that decades more work didn't advance it past a 1.9 version.
The only reason that would be, is if the INITIAL DRAFT was a FINAL VERSION.
Supposedly, he made this in a few months of complete reconstruction.
This is impossible.
If he was just copying a final version from LEONARD, however,
it's possible it was ALREADY nearly as good as it COULD get, thus not
requiring major overhauls to improve it.
So, on paper,
it makes sense that vpw lied and just copied over Leonard's completed
class as his own "completed class".
That still leaves reality.
Those people who have taken both Leonard's class and vpw's class
have said that Leonard's class DOES have all the Bible in it,
and all of the supposed "original" material of pfal was straight out
of Leonard's class. The most ridiculous example of this is that the
imaginary examples-Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup and Henry
Belocco were ALL from Leonard and just transliterated over.
(Snowball Pete may not have been mentioned. However, he
only appears once in 12 episodes of pfal, so that's not significant.)
In short,
there is no reason to believe vpw is telling anything resembling the truth
here.
He took Leonard's class.
He claimed to make improvements on it, then a few months later
(too soon to overhaul it), he taught Leonard's class with a new name.
There was no syllabus or textbook initially.
Over time-and time spent with books on the Holy Spirit field-
textbooks "were written" that were Bullinger and Stiles' books
with a new name and cover.
According to some people,
God wanted him to teach "his" class.
However, "his" class was LEONARD's class.
The only difference for several years was the name of the class and the name of its
"originator."
It would have been easier to make arrangements to arrange for LEONARD's
class than to spend months slapping his name on a transliteration.
The only gain for that time was vpw's name added to it.
So, then, that would mean God wanted Leonard's class to be taught,
but vpw's name attached to it and Leonard's name removed.
If you want to believe that makes sense, go ahead.
"'Somewhere in there I wrote the first holy spirit book. I can't remember exactly what year.'"
"'I'd been working those 385 scriptures and they began to all fall into place.'"
"'We're having the sixth edition printed now of that book: Receiving the Holy Spirit Today. It's a great piece of research.
Lots of the stuff I teach is not original. Putting it all together so that it fit-that was the original work. I learned wherever I could, and then I worked that with the Scriptures. What was right on with the Scriptures, I kept; but what wasn't, I dropped.
Vale from Florida was the one who taught us about interpretation and prophecy. But he didn't understand the other manifestations. It took BG Leonard and others to teach us healing and believing. But in the holy spirit field, our piece of research is the most thorough and original coverage of the subject. And believe me, I've seen about everything in that field. No one really goes into it.'"
"Do you know that three times in those early years people tried to kill me?" he remarks suddenly, facing me squarely. I wait, hoping for details, but Doctor relaxes his shoulders in a barely noticeable gesture, and then launches into a new theme."
Seeing how vpw works, I can see how Mike operates. Don't listen to anyone else, unless he agrees withy you and don't respond to anyone unless they pay obeisance to you.
Ok, let's translate this into plain truthful English...
==========
pg-209, vpw on the genesis of the White Book.
"'Somewhere in there I wrote the first holy spirit book. I can't remember exactly what year.'"
[...by cutting-and-pasting Stiles' book and Bullinger's book on the subject.]
"'I'd been working those 385 scriptures and they began to all fall into place.'"
[ I 'worked' them as they appeared in Stiles' and Bullinger's books, and they were
already 'in place' as a result. But that didn't stop me from adding my name to their work.]
"'We're having the sixth edition printed now of that book: Receiving the Holy Spirit Today. It's a great piece of research."
[ It's a pretty good combination of the contents of 2 other books,
neither of which are ever mentioned IN that book.]
"Lots of the stuff I teach is not original."
[ 99% of the stuff I teach is not original-but taken ENTIRELY from other people's books and
classes, teaching style and method of speech.]
"Putting it all together so that it fit-that was the original work."
[ Well, it all "fit" since it was of God, but reassembling their books into my book, and adding
Bullinger and Stiles into Leonard to make the Foundational class, I consider that "original"
since no one ever put them alongside each other. Of course, I'll never mention their names
because I don't want to have my paper-trail followed.]
"I learned wherever I could,"
[ No arguments there.]
"and then I worked that with the Scriptures. What was right on with the Scriptures, I kept; but what wasn't, I dropped."
[When Christians said something I thought was correct, I copied over their work.
When non-Christians said something I thought was correct, I copied over their work.
And I added tithing to the mix because the 10% was coming to ME now.
Actually comparing things to Scriptures was incidental in many cases.
That's how the "Law" of Believing became a Session I mainstay.]
"Vale from Florida was the one who taught us about interpretation and prophecy. But he didn't understand the other manifestations. It took BG Leonard and others to teach us healing and believing."
[This is vpw giving credit. This is not a bad thing. It is NOT a substitute for the legal requirements
of citation, nor the moral requirement of being honest. ]
"But in the holy spirit field, our piece of research is the most thorough and original coverage of the subject. And believe me, I've seen about everything in that field. No one really goes into it.'"
[ It's the most thorough because it combines the thorough works of more than one good writer.
It is not even SLIGHTLY original. ]
"Do you know that three times in those early years people tried to kill me?" he remarks suddenly, facing me squarely. I wait, hoping for details, but Doctor relaxes his shoulders in a barely noticeable gesture, and then launches into a new theme."
[ This is changing the subject, and inflating one's own self-importance.
He's supposedly important enough to warrant murder attempts.
Then again, those might have been fathers of young women who had received
pg-210, 211, he speaks about Dr E.E. Higgins. She's the one who would call him up every night, asking what God taught him that day.
======
"God told me to teach the Word of God to others, but He never told me to how many people.
She used to come to Van Wert on weekends.
She'd stay at the "Y".
She'd say it was like coming home.
She gave me my first copy of Bullinger's<BR>How to Enjoy the Bible. She said, when she first heard me teach, that I taught like he wrote, and I'd never met the man or even read his stuff."
"She taught me the great respect and love I have for the human body-the tenderness of it. She loved the body, like I love the Word of God. She just stood in awe of how magnificently it was put together. She rid me of my hang-ups, that false stuff, and taught me the beauty of the human body. We used to talk about the human body-where the life was located."
========
[How many people see that little comment as a dire warning, given 20/20 hindsight?]
Wordwolf, that IS ominous in light of what we now know...shiver
Awww,<BR><BR>I wanted to say, "all women are liars...and SHE teaches vpw about the human body."<BR><BR>Things that make you go hmmm.
"Do you know that three times in those early years people tried to kill me?" he remarks suddenly, facing me squarely. I wait, hoping for details, but Doctor relaxes his shoulders in a barely noticeable gesture, and then launches into a new theme."
Anybody ever get the details on this? Who was it? Angry husband? Cast iron skillet bearing wife?
Or is it some kind of ellipsis:
"three times in those years, people tried to kill me..(and we all know we wouldn't have the verd like it has not been known since the first century if they had succeeded..)"
I'm only in the middle of page 3 and I can't get over all the "I did..." "I said..." "I saw.."
VP speaks he learnt so much from everyone..but it sounds more like...
"They agreed with what I believed...and therefore, they were right on because of it!"
PUKE PUKE PUKE <!--graemlin::bang:-->
"She taught me the great respect and love I have for the <BR>human body-the tenderness of it. She loved the body, like I love the Word of God. She just stood in awe of how magnificently it was put together. She rid me of my hang-ups, that false stuff, and taught me the beauty of the human body. We used to talk about the human body-where the life was located."
If 'Calling him everynight' wasn't enough..then she visited him every weekend ... wowza <!--graemlin::eek:-->
That's quite the committed individual to Wierwille. What kind of life did she have?
Man oh man...I can hardly handle reading this stuff...I'm almost ready to hurl chunks. <!--graemlin:--> <!--graemlin::crazy:--><BR><BR>I'm so embarrased I even endorsed this book at one time in my life <!--graemlin:--> What dillusion was I under? <!--graemlin::crazy:-->
WordWolf:
Actually, I have a followup question for you....<BR>Take a woman this obsessed with vpw-
called EVERY night, visited town EVERY weekend- add that she "rid him of his hang-ups" about the human body,and I ask you,
WHAT happened between them when doors were shut?
WW, Yes, I wanted state that very thing you asked...but thought maybe I should let readers make their own conclusions. I find it very 'strange' that she stayed at the 'Y'. If she was such a dear friend,then why did she not stay with VP at his home??? Perhaps they wanted 'privacy'?
Feeling sicker by the minute... (insert smiley face that is the colour of green and looks like it's about to puke right about here ---> )
"Do you know that three times in those early years people tried to kill me?" he remarks suddenly, facing me squarely. I wait, hoping for details, but Doctor relaxes his shoulders in a barely noticeable gesture, and then launches into a new theme. Anybody ever get the details on this? Who was it? Angry husband? Cast iron skillet bearing wife?
Or is it some kind of ellipsis..
All I can say is that it reeks of
'LOOK AT ME - I'M THE Man of God ... and look at how the Devil is trying to destroy me. I have suffered so much for the Word. What have you suffered? NOTHING!!! (you peon YOU!)<BR><BR>I HAVE done all the research, I HAVE given it to you. My blood, MY sweat and MY tears...I give it to YOU!!"
Wow...what service, what doulos, what a MAN! I am nearly weak from disgust! <!--graemlin::(-->
She taught me the great respect and love I have for the human body-the tenderness of it. She loved the body, like I love the Word of God. She just stood in awe of how magnificently it was put together. She rid me of my hang-ups, that false stuff, and taught me the beauty of the human body. We used to talk about the human body-where the life was located."
SOunds like CFS in the early 80's SHUDDDER
THis is creepy, rid him of his hang-ups mmmmmmm
must have been the ones where Fornication and adulktry were bad
"Do you know that three times in those early years people tried to kill me?" he remarks suddenly, facing me squarely. I wait, hoping for details, but Doctor relaxes his shoulders in a barely noticeable gesture,
So let me understand--VPW the egoist of TWI, the one who called every minor incidnent an attack from the adversary, whose publicity machine never ceased telling us how much he had done and suffered for us, was almost assasinated three times, and it was never mentioned, no police reports, no lectures on "spritual trapdoors' the "wiles of the Adversary"--imagine that
Frankly I can't imagine it at all -- that would have been political hay and he woudl have used it to the fullest
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penworks
I agree that it is "garbage" insofar that it is propaganda. But I think it does have a certain value: it's a good case study on VPW's sick thinking (and lack thereof) and a red flag about the dangers
A la prochaine
If 'Calling him everynight' wasn't enough..then she visited him every weekend ... wowza That's quite the committed individual to Wierwille. What kind of life did she have? Man oh man...I can hard
Thomas Loy Bumgarner
I want to go back about Wierwille preaching to the trees, squirels, rocks and so forth. My a Protestant version
of St. Francis of Assissi. Too bad he didn't live according to the prayer associated with Francis. As the Church
lady character on Saturday Night Live(Dana Carvey) would say" Isn't that special? Could it be Satan?'.
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templelady
Question , If VPW never taught these things How would he know that absolutely nobody could receive them????
Sounds like Ego boosting to me
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WordWolf
Obvious in 20/20 hindsight, isn't it?
Now, I bought this book and put it on a shelf.
So, I have an excuse. This was the first time I've ever READ IT.
Those of you who read it once and didn't run screaming THEN
are having a VERY surreal experience NOW.
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A la prochaine
I'm BACK..... :P
"The holy spirit field-that's the field God raised me up for."
There's something ABSOLUTELY fishy about this statement. It's too packaged or something...can't quite put my finger on it? OH RIGHT!!!! The smart-A$$, motor-cycle maniac...was being raised for the Holy Spirit field? How could God limit himself like this???
And to claim such a thing? WOWZA...he surely had NARCISSISTIC balls.
Wonky :blink:
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templelady
when I had my experience I felt the inside of me was as warm from the light as the outside-when it was over I felt like I had been exposed to sunshine on the inside--so I don't discount this as being a vaild feeling of the manifestation, that said--there are many possibilities
1- VPW actually experiencecd the manifestation
2- VPW wanted so badly to experience SIT he thought he experienced the manifestation and had heard from others how it felt
3- VPW experienced the manifestation didn't experience the feeling that others had but said he did
4- He lied about the whole SIT experience
5- He experienced it but somewhere down the road figured out how to use the experience to make his stature in the eyes of men grow.
Personally I'm for #5
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WordWolf
"when I had my experience I felt the inside of me was as warm from the light as the outside-when it was over I felt like I had been exposed to sunshine on the inside--so I don't discount this as being a vaild feeling of the manifestation, that said--there are many possibilities
1- VPW actually experiencecd the manifestation
2- VPW wanted so badly to experience SIT he thought he experienced the manifestation and had heard from others how it felt
3- VPW experienced the manifestation didn't experience the feeling that others had but said he did
4- He lied about the whole SIT experience
5- He experienced it but somewhere down the road figured out how to use the experience to make his stature in the eyes of men grow.
Personally I'm for #5."
I see #1 and #5 as the same option.
By vpw's own doctrine,
#3 would be the same as well.
He said God never guaranteed a feeling.
He spoke of people's expectations colouring their results.
That's when he spoke about people "slain in the spirit" and so on.
As to #2 and #4,
I think #2 is possible.
I find #4-where it differs from #2-to be too improbable for me to accept.
I can believe vpw didn't experience it.
I can believe vpw WANTED to experience it.
So, I can believe #2.
I don't think it's credible that even his desire to experience was a total lie.
I think that there was SOME basis for a conviction.
The man RATIONALIZED his way thru many things,
but I don't think he set out with the express, premeditated purpose of lying.
I think, no matter what, he WANTED the Holy Spirit.
Therefore, he either experienced it, or wanted to so much he made something up.
In this case, I think it is most likely he DID experience something.
His story rings true, as written.
It's also consistent with his positions in pfal about the Holy Spirit field.
He took what WORKED for Stiles and repackaged it.
If he'd wanted to fake it, there were earlier steps he could have taken and saved time.
Therefore, I do not say I know for certain.
My OPINION is that #5 is correct as well.
He pursued a geniune experience, had one,
then later decided to package and sell it.
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def59
Temple
Aren't LDS supposed to have some kind of "experience" that validates the church in their minds? If thjat is true, how does that compare to the pffle?
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templelady
def59
If you want to discuss the specifics of the LDS faith start a thread and ask your questions in the doctrinal forum--elsewise please stop trying to derail Wordwolf's thread
Thank you
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WordWolf
Ok, let's see....This episode we'll see BG Leonard, what vpw admits to learning from him, what vpw says about him, and the 3 things that vpw finds quoteworthy from BG Leonard.
pg-205.
===
"But how did you get the class started?" I asked him. "It was happening while you were here in Van Wert."
"After that trip to Tulsa lots of things fell into place. God just keeps giving it to you as you can take it. Someone in Tulsa gave me the name of B.G. Leonard, or sent my name to him, I can't remember which. Anyway, after Tulsa I began to get his monthly newsletter from Calgary, Alberta, Canada. I never read that thing. It was so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word. I never read it for two years. And then a couple of years after Tulsa, I had been working the Word about laying on of hands. I'd worked every scripture and seen how they worked together perfectly. That particular day, just after I'd worked it through, I'd gotten B.G. Leonard's newssheet. Well, I just crumpled it up and threw it in the wastebasket as usual. I did some other things, and later that day I took the wastebasket out to burn the rubbish. As I shook it out, this thing, which was on the bottom, fell out on top of the heap in the incinerator--opened. There staring me in the face was an article about laying on of hands. I read the first two lines fast, and they are perfectly accurate. So I pulled the whole thing out of the fire before it burned and read it through. The whole article was exactly what I had come up with in my months of research. So I went in and called B.G. Leonard on the telephone. He told me he loved me, but I couldn't come up to see him because he was in the middle of a class. So I took the next plane to Calgary. His place was called the Christian Training Centre."
Now here are ALL the direct quotes from Leonard.
Please note that, like everyone else, he can ID vpw on sight.
"And then he started preaching. Boy, oh, boy, was he with it! He taught his heart out for another hour and a half. Then everyone left, and I just sat there. He said, 'Hi, ya, there, Wierwille, I thought I told you, you couldn't come.' And I said, "Yeh, but I didn't hear you.' 'Well, where are you staying?' he asked me, and I told him. And he said "Why, you're in the middle of the red light district. That's all whores!' "
That was ALL the direct quotes from Leonard.
pg-207.
"He loved me, and I learned some stuff from him. He had tremendous believing. That's why I love the guy."
"The summer of 1953, our whole ministry went up-Dotsie and Donnie and some of the others from Van Wert. We took his whole trip- really learned a lot about the other manifestations of the holy spirit. But he worked from personal experiences. I worked what he taught from the accuracy of the Scriptures. When I came home, I made up my mind that I was going to tie the whole thing together from Genesis to Revelation. So I did, and in October, I had the very first 'Power for Abundant Living' Class. At that time, the Foundational Class and the Advanced Class were together-then whole thing in two weeks. But the syllabus today is basically the same. The basic principles from the Word are the same. The class has filled out. But I knew the greatness of our age-the age of holy spirit and that every truth must fit in the framework of the manifestations. I just had to teach it to somebody."
"I taught without a syllabus, but the class was the same. You could throw the syllabus away now and I could still teach it. It's a burning reality in my soul."
============
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templelady
Knows how to speak in tongues
HAs the Holy Spirit (direct communication with God)
And with all this he doesn't get the message that he is suppossed to read the newsletter.
BUt wait he says 'it was so badly priinted you could hardly make out a word' Whos Neliie! that means--can it be!?!?--that he actually did read it at least some of the time -- but that contradicts-----
it's the basically the same that worries me--I mean I can understand how a teaching or class in the five senses world evolves--But per VPW God was right there showing him--so it should not have needed to be changed at all.
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Brother Speed
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templelady
So let's see--VPW is told that Leonard is in the middle of a class and he doesn't want to see VPW right then. I mean he is told by Leonard himself
SO what does VPW do??
Disregards Leonards express wishes and shows up anyway
(so if VPW told you you couldn't come to the ROA and you showed up anyway how long did it take the "bless patrol" to send you packing???)
THen when confronted about his misdeed
(we all know VPW was big on confronting)
Does VPW
1-acknowledge his error
2-apologize for disrespecting Leonards wishes
or
3-blow Leonards justifiable annoyance off.
Scenario
A Piffle class is running-VPW is teaching it live-suddenly in walks someone that not only isn't registered but someone who was told by VPW himself that he couldn't attend---
What would VPW DO???
the ego and self justification is unbelievable
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WordWolf
'A la prochaine' date='Oct 7 2005, 02:48 AM'
"I'm BACK..... :P
"The holy spirit field-that's the field God raised me up for."
There's something ABSOLUTELY fishy about this statement. It's too packaged or something...can't quite put my finger on it? OH RIGHT!!!! The smart-A$$, motor-cycle maniac...was being raised for the Holy Spirit field? How could God limit himself like this???
And to claim such a thing? WOWZA...he surely had NARCISSISTIC balls.
Wonky :blink:"
========================
The part that still leaves me in amazement is that some people read that statement of
his NOW, knowing what we NOW know, and say
"Yes, that's correct."
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WordWolf
BTW,
Brother Speed,
vpw DID say Leonard relocated him to a decent hotel.
I didnt include it because I wasnt trying to retype every word in the book-
I only wanted what was germane to the discussion.
I'm not sure if you meant
"and vpw stayed in the Red Light District".
I am a little curious how someone could be in the 'middle" of a Red Light District
and not even notice.
I mean, back before Times Square was "cleaned up",
if you walked down the average street,
you found out you were in a Red Light District of some kind.
Guys would whisper stuff to passers-by.
In broad daylight.
I don't know what it was like at NIGHT back then.
(Nor do I wish to.)
Perhaps the normal "I'm scandalized" reaction of most ministers
wasn't quite so hair-trigger in vpw.
'templelady':
======
And yet,
you have an example RIGHT THERE to compare it with-
Brother Leonard's response.
He was within his rights to send vpw home, or at least out of his classroom.
Yet he did not.
Why?
I'm thinking he decided it was more loving to let him stay even though,
"technically",
it would be wrong.
Knowing how vpw would snap people's heads off, this just makes HIM look worse by
comparison...
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"After that trip to Tulsa lots of things fell into place. God just keeps giving it to you as you can take it. Someone in Tulsa gave me the name of B.G. Leonard, or sent my name to him, I can't remember which. Anyway, after Tulsa I began to get his monthly newsletter from Calgary, Alberta, Canada.
I never read that thing. It was so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word. I never read it for two years. And then a couple of years after Tulsa, I had been working the Word about laying on of hands. I'd worked every scripture and seen how they worked together perfectly. That particular day, just after I'd worked it through, I'd gotten B.G. Leonard's newssheet. Well, I just crumpled it up and threw it in the wastebasket as usual. I did some other things, and later that day I took the wastebasket out to burn the rubbish. As I shook it out, this thing, which was on the bottom, fell out on top of the heap in the incinerator--opened.
There staring me in the face was an article about laying on of hands. I read the first two lines fast, and they are perfectly accurate. So I pulled the whole thing out of the fire before it burned and read it through. The whole article was exactly what I had come up with in my months of research. So I went in and called B.G. Leonard on the telephone. He told me he loved me, but I couldn't come up to see him because he was in the middle of a class. So I took the next plane to Calgary. His place was called the Christian Training Centre."
==========================
"I never read that thing.
It was so badly printed, you could hardly make out a word.
I never read it for two years."
So,
he claimed he never read it.
And, he claimed it was ILLEGIBLE- "you could hardly make out a word."
"I just crumpled it up and threw it in the wastebasket as usual."
In the rubbish, the paper, which was CRUMPLED- OPENED.
Unless he had a less-efficient manner of crumpling, he balled up the paper without looking-
then it was UNBALLED.
Must have been a "miraculous unballing."
The article stared him in the face.
He read the first 2 sentences, and they were accurate.
Ok,
start with a barely-legible sheet of paper.
Then CRUMPLE the paper.
Then uncrumple it and try to READ it.
It is now LESS than barely-legible.
How did he read it?
He said nothing about a miraculous reading or anything.
Ok,
let's suppose all of that happened-somehow-exactly as reported.
vpw works on something, and Leonard worked on something,
and they came up with the same results.
(I've had that happen before, myself.)
vpw's response?
He has to go from Ohio up into Canada NOW and see Leonard.
Face-to-face.
Why?
Was it because Leonard could have saved him "months of research",
or was there an entirely different reason?
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===================
"The summer of 1953, our whole ministry went up-Dotsie and Donnie and some of the others from Van Wert. We took his whole trip- really learned a lot about the other manifestations of the holy spirit. But he worked from personal experiences. I worked what he taught from the accuracy of the Scriptures. When I came home, I made up my mind that I was going to tie the whole thing together from Genesis to Revelation. So I did, and in October, I had the very first 'Power for Abundant Living' Class. At that time, the Foundational Class and the Advanced Class were together-then whole thing in two weeks. But the syllabus today is basically the same. The basic principles from the Word are the same. The class has filled out. But I knew the greatness of our age-the age of holy spirit and that every truth must fit in the framework of the manifestations. I just had to teach it to somebody."
"I taught without a syllabus, but the class was the same. You could throw the syllabus away now and I could still teach it. It's a burning reality in my soul."
============
Ok, here's the timetable.
vpw takes Leonard's entire class (not an interrupted one) in the summer of 1953.
Let's say it was the beginning of summer to allow for maximum time.
6/21 is the FIRST day of summer.
So, figure he takes Leonard's "whole trip"-
at least 2 weeks of concentrated material.
Let's say three weeks and say he took EVERYTHING.
That takes him thru the end of May and into the middle of June.
vpw claims he then took Leonard's classes and "tied the whole thing together from Genesis to
Revelation", and added Scripture to Leonard's class.
If vpw is being truthful, that means he would need to completely deconstruct Leonard's class,
then completely rebuild it. He'd need to find the Scriptures to match EVERYTHING Leonard
taught.
Do you know how LONG that would take?
When CG attempted to take the Advanced class (1/3 the material) and improve on it,
he worked on it sporadically over YEARS. It would have been at least 6 months of concentrated work-
and that was TWEAKING and IMPROVING-not completely taking it apart and building a NEW CLASS.
That would have taken one person over a year if working completely alone.
So vpw takes Leonard's class, and a few months later, runs his first PFAL class.
He has NOT had enough time to build an entirely new class.
He had time to make a few cosmetic changes.
He had time to memorize blocks of Leonard's class.
So, realistically, this could NOT be that different a class.
Further,
if he rebuilt it, he would have a definite outline for doing so, between DEconstruction and REconstruction.
It should have been relatively simple to take the most basic outline, add a paragraph on each
session's contents, then hand it off to a secretary for typing and photocopying.
That would have been a rough syllabus.
Ok,
so either vpw told the truth or he did not.
He did not have sufficient TIME to have done this in the manner he stated.
Further,
the 1.0 version of anything is rather different, say, than the 4.5 version.
That's because there's years of refinement and improvements over years,
and the makers find better ways of doing things.
vpw claims the 1.0 version of pfal is largely the same as the FINAL result.
Something like saying that decades more work didn't advance it past a 1.9 version.
The only reason that would be, is if the INITIAL DRAFT was a FINAL VERSION.
Supposedly, he made this in a few months of complete reconstruction.
This is impossible.
If he was just copying a final version from LEONARD, however,
it's possible it was ALREADY nearly as good as it COULD get, thus not
requiring major overhauls to improve it.
So, on paper,
it makes sense that vpw lied and just copied over Leonard's completed
class as his own "completed class".
That still leaves reality.
Those people who have taken both Leonard's class and vpw's class
have said that Leonard's class DOES have all the Bible in it,
and all of the supposed "original" material of pfal was straight out
of Leonard's class. The most ridiculous example of this is that the
imaginary examples-Maggie Muggins, Johnny Jumpup and Henry
Belocco were ALL from Leonard and just transliterated over.
(Snowball Pete may not have been mentioned. However, he
only appears once in 12 episodes of pfal, so that's not significant.)
In short,
there is no reason to believe vpw is telling anything resembling the truth
here.
He took Leonard's class.
He claimed to make improvements on it, then a few months later
(too soon to overhaul it), he taught Leonard's class with a new name.
There was no syllabus or textbook initially.
Over time-and time spent with books on the Holy Spirit field-
textbooks "were written" that were Bullinger and Stiles' books
with a new name and cover.
According to some people,
God wanted him to teach "his" class.
However, "his" class was LEONARD's class.
The only difference for several years was the name of the class and the name of its
"originator."
It would have been easier to make arrangements to arrange for LEONARD's
class than to spend months slapping his name on a transliteration.
The only gain for that time was vpw's name added to it.
So, then, that would mean God wanted Leonard's class to be taught,
but vpw's name attached to it and Leonard's name removed.
If you want to believe that makes sense, go ahead.
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WordWolf
pg-209, vpw on the genesis of the White Book.
"'Somewhere in there I wrote the first holy spirit book. I can't remember exactly what year.'"
"'I'd been working those 385 scriptures and they began to all fall into place.'"
"'We're having the sixth edition printed now of that book: Receiving the Holy Spirit Today. It's a great piece of research.
Lots of the stuff I teach is not original. Putting it all together so that it fit-that was the original work. I learned wherever I could, and then I worked that with the Scriptures. What was right on with the Scriptures, I kept; but what wasn't, I dropped.
Vale from Florida was the one who taught us about interpretation and prophecy. But he didn't understand the other manifestations. It took BG Leonard and others to teach us healing and believing. But in the holy spirit field, our piece of research is the most thorough and original coverage of the subject. And believe me, I've seen about everything in that field. No one really goes into it.'"
"Do you know that three times in those early years people tried to kill me?" he remarks suddenly, facing me squarely. I wait, hoping for details, but Doctor relaxes his shoulders in a barely noticeable gesture, and then launches into a new theme."
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def59
Seeing how vpw works, I can see how Mike operates. Don't listen to anyone else, unless he agrees withy you and don't respond to anyone unless they pay obeisance to you.
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WordWolf
Probably,
but please confine personal attacks in this thread to people from the book.
You didn't have any comments on the last set of quotes, there?
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WordWolf
Ok, let's translate this into plain truthful English...
==========
pg-209, vpw on the genesis of the White Book.
"'Somewhere in there I wrote the first holy spirit book. I can't remember exactly what year.'"
[...by cutting-and-pasting Stiles' book and Bullinger's book on the subject.]
"'I'd been working those 385 scriptures and they began to all fall into place.'"
[ I 'worked' them as they appeared in Stiles' and Bullinger's books, and they were
already 'in place' as a result. But that didn't stop me from adding my name to their work.]
"'We're having the sixth edition printed now of that book: Receiving the Holy Spirit Today. It's a great piece of research."
[ It's a pretty good combination of the contents of 2 other books,
neither of which are ever mentioned IN that book.]
"Lots of the stuff I teach is not original."
[ 99% of the stuff I teach is not original-but taken ENTIRELY from other people's books and
classes, teaching style and method of speech.]
"Putting it all together so that it fit-that was the original work."
[ Well, it all "fit" since it was of God, but reassembling their books into my book, and adding
Bullinger and Stiles into Leonard to make the Foundational class, I consider that "original"
since no one ever put them alongside each other. Of course, I'll never mention their names
because I don't want to have my paper-trail followed.]
"I learned wherever I could,"
[ No arguments there.]
"and then I worked that with the Scriptures. What was right on with the Scriptures, I kept; but what wasn't, I dropped."
[When Christians said something I thought was correct, I copied over their work.
When non-Christians said something I thought was correct, I copied over their work.
And I added tithing to the mix because the 10% was coming to ME now.
Actually comparing things to Scriptures was incidental in many cases.
That's how the "Law" of Believing became a Session I mainstay.]
"Vale from Florida was the one who taught us about interpretation and prophecy. But he didn't understand the other manifestations. It took BG Leonard and others to teach us healing and believing."
[This is vpw giving credit. This is not a bad thing. It is NOT a substitute for the legal requirements
of citation, nor the moral requirement of being honest. ]
"But in the holy spirit field, our piece of research is the most thorough and original coverage of the subject. And believe me, I've seen about everything in that field. No one really goes into it.'"
[ It's the most thorough because it combines the thorough works of more than one good writer.
It is not even SLIGHTLY original. ]
"Do you know that three times in those early years people tried to kill me?" he remarks suddenly, facing me squarely. I wait, hoping for details, but Doctor relaxes his shoulders in a barely noticeable gesture, and then launches into a new theme."
[ This is changing the subject, and inflating one's own self-importance.
He's supposedly important enough to warrant murder attempts.
Then again, those might have been fathers of young women who had received
the 'special blessing' of the mog. ]
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WordWolf
pg-210, 211, he speaks about Dr E.E. Higgins. She's the one who would call him up every night, asking what God taught him that day.
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"God told me to teach the Word of God to others, but He never told me to how many people.
She used to come to Van Wert on weekends.
She'd stay at the "Y".
She'd say it was like coming home.
She gave me my first copy of Bullinger's<BR>How to Enjoy the Bible. She said, when she first heard me teach, that I taught like he wrote, and I'd never met the man or even read his stuff."
"She taught me the great respect and love I have for the human body-the tenderness of it. She loved the body, like I love the Word of God. She just stood in awe of how magnificently it was put together. She rid me of my hang-ups, that false stuff, and taught me the beauty of the human body. We used to talk about the human body-where the life was located."
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[How many people see that little comment as a dire warning, given 20/20 hindsight?]
WordWolf:
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WordWolf
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templelady
THis is creepy, rid him of his hang-ups mmmmmmm
must have been the ones where Fornication and adulktry were bad
So let me understand--VPW the egoist of TWI, the one who called every minor incidnent an attack from the adversary, whose publicity machine never ceased telling us how much he had done and suffered for us, was almost assasinated three times, and it was never mentioned, no police reports, no lectures on "spritual trapdoors' the "wiles of the Adversary"--imagine that
Frankly I can't imagine it at all -- that would have been political hay and he woudl have used it to the fullest
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