The good it did for me early on was later erased. Then I was back where I started and in a worse situation for putting real life on hold for so long while in pursuit of twi approval.
Mark, I didn't want to let this one die on the 2nd page just yet. You've asked some very good questions on these polls of yours.
I think there was no value at all to TWI, but I was in during the 90's and missed all the great times that people wax nostalgic about. I have tried to find something good about my experience and I can't find a d*mn thing. I am smarter and wiser, but I don't think it's because of anything GOOD or of value from TWI. ;)-->
That being said, I do completely and honestly see how people DO have good things to share and good memories of their time in TWI. I love to read about those times and about the fun people had. I'm just not one of those people. :)-->
I actually asked all three of those questions together for a good reason.
"Value" is a personal view of what the reader got out of the time in TWI on a personal basis.
"Correct Doctrine" is a personal belief of what was sold by TWI (a view of the quality of the product)
"Regret" looks at whether a person considers their decisions to be mistakes or not.
The interesting thing about asking the three questions as a set is that about 30% of the people responding to the questions think that what TWI thought was right and that they really liked their involvement in TWI (at least at some point in time). (If you look at a poll posted by WW, you'll note that 17% of the respondents of his poll believed TWI was "really accurate.") But nobody, NOBODY wishes he/she was still active in TWI (according to the "regrets" question).
I find that to be absolutely fascinating. Frankly, its not the result I was expecting. But, it is what it is. If the results would be consistent, I should be able to ask an additional question about how one worships/fellowships and about 20-30% of the respondents should answer with CES/CFF/etc. or that they would if they could. Based on anecdotal evidence from the quality/nature of posts, I don't believe I'd find that type of result. (I honestly think I'd see about 10% -- do either of you think the percentage would be much different?)
So what does that mean? There are a number of possibilities, but that might be best left for discussion. Should a new thread be started to explore the hold of Wierwillian theology on people who don't/won't practice with Wierwillian groups (I say Wierwillian not because I believe he had an original thought in his life, but a convenient abbreviation for the fusion of other groups' theologoies that he taught through TWI and have been carried on to one degree or another through the offshoots). Or would such a thread be inflammatory?
I find that to be absolutely fascinating. Frankly, its not the result I was expecting. But, it is what it is. If the results would be consistent, I should be able to ask an additional question about how one worships/fellowships and about 20-30% of the respondents should answer with CES/CFF/etc. or that they would if they could. Based on anecdotal evidence from the quality/nature of posts, I don't believe I'd find that type of result. (I honestly think I'd see about 10% -- do either of you think the percentage would be much different?)
I don't think you'll find a 30% CES/CFF/Offshoot response, but I think it would be higher than 10%. More people follow their doctrine and structure than readily admit on here because of the backlash from those who don't, I think. :)--> Anonymously I think more people would admit to it.
quote:
So what does that mean? There are a number of possibilities, but that might be best left for discussion. Should a new thread be started to explore the hold of Wierwillian theology on people who don't/won't practice with Wierwillian groups (I say Wierwillian not because I believe he had an original thought in his life, but a convenient abbreviation for the fusion of other groups' theologoies that he taught through TWI and have been carried on to one degree or another through the offshoots). Or would such a thread be inflammatory?
Sounds like a great thread and yes, it could become inflammatory because of the high emotional investment people make regarding their spiritual beliefs. MOST of us can discuss heated things without flaming others and hopefully we're all learning to ignore those who do flame. ;)-->
I'd also like to know more about the people who voted that they wished the TWI they knew and loved was still around. Do they mean that they loved being involved with TWI so much that even knowing about all the abuse, plagarism, lies and manipulation they'd still go back to TWI if they could feel the same way they did when they were initially involved?
Do they mean that if TWI really was what they THOUGHT it was when they were involved and feeling all warm and fuzzy about it, that they would go back?
What exactly do they mean that they would go back to? Given the answer it could be perceived as them voting that if TWI brought back PFAL, re-instituted the ROA and WOW program, started playing awesome music again and people went back to love-bombing and allowing people to come and go as they please that they would return despite all the ugliness and evil that would most likely continue.....
*shrug* I dunno.
Good questions, Mark. Thanks for asking them. Thanks to everyone for voting. :)-->
in a bucket of 500 degree asphalt... (due to stumbling while carrying said bucket)
and immediately started to panic. This panic manifested itself at first in the linear, highly-auditory panic - the LHAP mode (running around screaming at the top of my lungs). But shortly devolved into the vertical, moderately obscene panic - VMOP mode (jumping up and down in place while cursing at the top of my lungs).
After considerable effort put into both of these modalities, I eventually resorted to the simpler, but every bit as ineffective, LDAW mode (lying down and wimpering).
After considerably more time these techniques all gave way to the DTYSAFPO coping strategy (drink till you're stupid and finally pass out).
Then after just a few short weeks, everything was just fine. Boy, and the lessons I learned!
Geeze, I sure miss "hot" roofing! I mean, back in the beginning, before it got all messed up. Wow, we had so much fun, and the people were all so great! Sniff...
I remember a time I went to help somebody with some roofing work..
They covered up a big hole in the roof with some tar paper. The one guy turned to the other and said, "no problem here, WE'LL remember that there is a hole there.."
Interesting approach to this topic, Mark. Thanks for the thought provoking questions. I actually felt like I didn't have answers for them.
Value?
I'm feeling like the period from the America Awakes National tour in '76 through Sound Out '84 could be called the "golden years" of TWI. From '71 through 1975 things were "ramping up" one might say. After Sound Out, I don't remember any big national event that the ministry was focusing on.
VPW's health took a turn south. POP hit in '86 and all hell broke loose, LITERALLY.
The collective ministry focus on the big deal events, in a sense WAS The Way's ministry. Lots (maybe most) of the GREAT times centered around those events. The way I see it, building for those big events, built the ministry, it gave us goals and objectives more tangible than "Word Over The Word." After each event the ministry was bigger, more capable, etc.
Of course, I'd love to relive those great times in my present reality of life. I'd love it if I could feel like my oldest who is in her first full week of college on the east coast could be in her first full week of in residence in The Way Corps too. That's where the problem begins, at least in my thinking. I can trust that there is a measure of integrity at Yale and that my daughter actually IS getting "the finest education money can buy" from some of the finest minds in anywhere in the world in their fields.
The bad entered TWI (IMO) when "major leadership" forgot that they had "enough" of people's lives to make themselves personally rich and powerful... enough. TWI could have grown and become an institution. It seems the basic focus at the top leadership level was, or maybe became off kilter. Lost the integrity.
I think it could be great if the TWI of "the golden years" were alive & well today. With today's communication technology and "yesterday's heart" TWI could be well on the way to "Word Over The World" by now and be filling in the gaps, so to speak.
I think there was great value in the IDEA that was TWI. What I wish were around now is a truly home based, truly Christian organization that REALLY believes the Bible.... and acts accordingly.
Then, I think the good would FAR outweigh the bad (which we will always have with us) our daily fellowship would be worth whatever hardships we faced along the way and there absolutely would be good to the place.
I attend and do work for the ministry of a great church. There are a LOT of great churches, ministries in the US & world. Getting one church to work together with us on ANYTHING at all is worse than pulling teeth. Even within denominations pretty much every church has an "every church for himself" attitude.
My church does THIS. Your church that. Godspeed brother, you do your thang, WE'll do ours. The non spoken thing is that "everbody" seem believe God is telling them to do what they do, so they DON'T wanna do an idea YOU might have.... To have a single-minded national group of people focused on building... whatever, like TWI used to be would be heavenly.
At one time TWI could send a single message around the world, and have it confirmed as recieved - - accurately in less than 24 hours (remember Blue Alerts anyone? Green? Red? etc??) over the phone. We could mobilize our people in every major city in the country at the snap of a finger have people show up at pretty much any location in the country.
What I wish, as far as TWI being around today would be.... Imagine. Twig Coordinator training in Indianapolis at the dome where the Colts play. Every TC gets a Varizon, or NextTel cellphone on the nationwide free calling plan ("IN," or whatever) TWI foots the bill for (say 1,000) minutes per mo. Training states that you pay for your minutes over the plan limit. Any believer who wanted, could purchase a phone and be part of the plan. How about a ministry that utilized the collective buying power of all of our tithes and ABS to buy a Family plan from a cell phone carrier. Imagine the discount!
Unlimited text messaging, every service at levels from HQ, root (international), Limbs, maybe down to area, streamed live to the web. The archived by subject title. Custom cellphone or pocket PC browsers powered by bluetooth (or whatever proprietary communications protocol believers may have invented) that can can pick up and dial into live teachings happening all over the world in "every" language.
TWI's website being a true internet portal with discussion forums like this one, topical chat rooms, an eBay type abundant sharing cyber-center where believers from all over the world could share of their abundance with those who need it. (I could get rid of some of the baby equipment in my basement!) This stuff would be available to every believer from any comuter in the world.
Imagine document repositories with an indexed library of every WC research paper ever written available for download as a pdf. Post pictures from your local area meeting. How about a before & after shot of YOUR guy with a whithered arm that you ministered to & he got healed?
Way Magazine on DVD! Electronic subsriptions. Get your way mag online OR in print. HQ staff would be near 5,000 by now and HQ would be like Microsoft's HQ. still keeping the quaint country charm.
Working late? Put on your headphones or speaker phone and conference call to twig. Text message this week's cookine provider to get an extra bag of Chips Ahoy on the way over.
The Safety Dept could have grown to include our own version of what we have here in Ohio.. Task force One. Imagine a group of believing believers, equipped with the finest and trained to hadle disaster relief like down in New Orleans area now.
I believe TWI COULD have grown into that by now.
Some people who came to TWI later 80's, 90's & beyond and even some who didn't get to HQ much never knew about was the cutting edge inventions, and things TWI staff did and were working on. We did work like a Biblical color - music harmony study where we related the music frequency lengths to wavelengths in light and charted color in relation to music notes. That allowed us to do paintings "in the key of an augumented c minor chord" if we wanted. Or whatever chord.
Ambassador One was the first plane of its type in the world to get an engine upgrade to "Super Condor" allowing it to fly faster, higher and over longer distances. That plane could take off from New Knoxville and fly overseas.
That auditorium was built to specs that would handle any stage show in production on broadway. When it was built it was said to be the best acoustical house anywhere between New York and Chicago. The plan was to bring traveling broadway shows to New Knoxville and give anyone in the area opportunities to see world class entertainment in their back yard. It has what at the time was "new" and state of the art cordless headphones and seven separate audio channels to do real time translations in up to seven languages simultaneously. You could sit anywhere in the aud. plop on the headphones nad hear whatever you were seeing translated into your language.
One thing I think almost "nobody" knew about was the "Snow Way." It was some newfangled arctic cat kinda all terrain snow vehicle with tracks like a tank. They planned to use it at Gunnison for tours up in the mountains in winter. We had a group of inventors who would pray & believe God to just invent stuff!
TWI's I.T. dept. built a software package we called "Wordworker, The Computerized New Testament" in 1979. We had people doing all kinds of stuff all over the country. ALL of that fizzled out when LCM took over and died altogether when POP hit the fan and was "buried" with the great exodus in 1989.
How do I know TWI could have done all that stuff
and even more? Well. Harve Platig was just a TWI staffer when I was there early 80's. He advanced to Vice President. Where would I have advanced to by now? What about others like LZ who was a senior person there back then? The talent in TWI was phenominal. Free thinking individuals with talent, brains and the spirit of God very much alive in them.
There was value. There absolutely was some good to the place. If we could have just kept moving in the direction and growing at the rate we were going...It could have happened.
Instead. You have Rosalie and co. lounging in her pool while WC servants dust, clean and bring them drinks.
Unfortunately few people were exposed to what value there may have been.
Absolutely.. others offered kind suggestions along the way (Igotout and others) and were not only ignored, but given "the bums rush" out of the joint..
Apparently there was some things- and people- of value in TWI. Why they threw both off the ship still is a puzzle to me.
Look what's left in their two-class society. The rosies and donnas, and the cleaners, dusters and food tasters.
when i took the PFAL class in the mid '70s, there were actual people who were really fired up to move the word as it 'should' have been taught.
But in and about the very late '70's things started to change dramatically. The leaders started to get as some people have said changing into gestappo type people.
There was actuall wanting to help people who wanted answers in thier lives. But it changed to the leaders wanting to controll who did what and when. Everything had to be done by "THIER" standards, not how it should be done with the love of GOD.
the way TWI is run now, there is absolutly no peace, love, compassion, or any sign of the GOD that is love and peace in sight at any of the TWI sites or at any of the classes that they offer.
All TWI wants to do now is controll what people do in thier lives and rake in the money they say is due to get the spiritual protection that "TWI" says is available and offers.
GOD is love and it doesn't take 50 to 60 percent of the money a person makes to get it.
When i was in and was going to fellowships, if you didn't show up for a week or two, the belivers were more than glad to see you again. They didn't rake you over the coals as to why you wern't there or what caused u to leave GOD's protection.
All TWI is now is a bunch of legalistic ba$$tards that in practice don't really care about the people but the money that roll's in to the coffers.
What you said the ministry could have been like, could have been true if things hadden't made a bad turn somewhere and the train jumped the tracks.
Too bad we, the ex-belivers that are out ofd TWIts controll, couldn't take up where TWIts should have gone.
Can't u just see it now, Ted F. as the head of the music department and having GREAT sounding music produced with each and every CD produced? And WW as head of the reaserch department. Of course PAW would have to help with running a smooth and logical web page for all who want to be "in the know" bout what is happening with what's going on.
Its too bad that "we" as in current believers who are out of TWI's control HAVEN'T taken up where we left off in TWI. Current history shows that "some are of Lynn, some are of Shroyer, Geer, etc., just as what happened in the first century.
We've gone our separate ways. Some have said, "the hell with the whole "God thing" altogether. In reality it seems we're no different than the rest of the Christian church. There are people out there doing great things for God on one corner, others doing things for God on another.
Problem is there doesn't seem to be any one leader all of the other leaders are willing to follow... How about we rally behind Pat, "just kill the bastard" Robertson and his angel-haired sidekick? I don't mean to disparage the 700 Club but I think a LOT of people see them that way.
One thing VPW had going for him was the ability to make people believe and follow him. Maybe we've all been burned a little too crispy by the VP's, Robertsons, and others to EVER rally around a single charismatic leader of the entire church??? I don't know.
For me the other side of the coin is that is seems like far too many guys run churches & ministries more because THEY want to be king than they desire to serve THE King. They seem to live like, "Yeah, I'll serve the King, as long as I get to be the "king server." YOU follw me and I'll tell you which way the King says WE should go.
That's the basic business model for churches today in America. Personally, I think it turns off most of the best & brightest minds who have not been indoctrinated into the church as children. I think maybe they smell "something a little bit fishy" from their POV that "we" may feel is sweet smelling.
There will be no real spiritual revival in this country until the church does a better job of meeting people's basic spiritual needs without a "bible behind their back." Jesus got people's attention by filling their bellys with lunch. After that he just started talking, saying things that really made sense to them.
TWI, after getting people's attention, starting using us to feed their greed. Lost what value they had in the process. Was it a dream or a nightmare?
I'll throw my hat into the ring as leader of the new improved "church of what 'THEY' thought were rejects" people.
First thing though is to come up with the heads of the different parts of the cleaning crew and cesspool areas.
Fist off we need a person to take care of "Spit" pollishing all of our ashtrays (for those who smoke) and "Spitoons" for those who inbibe to the "chew".....................................
YEA!!! u guessed it, 'OL LCM himself. Why waist good spittle. RIGHT???????
For maintenance of the cesspool...... Drum roll please.................. R.R. (cause of all the Shineola she can spread)
AND D*nna M**tin**le as the cleanup lady for the guest bedrooms (sheets, vacuming, window washing, ECT.)
I offer fair and honest reporting to all of the belivers, or Pat can report any transgressions that occure.
All campaine goes into qa special coffer to be used as a fund for a huge BBQ every year 1 month after my Bday (which was in the same month as an annual event in Ohio (My Bday is in August)) for all the belivers.
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penguin
The good it did for me early on was later erased. Then I was back where I started and in a worse situation for putting real life on hold for so long while in pursuit of twi approval.
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rascal
Mark, the people I met were good, wonderfull, so I can`t say there was NO good in twi...but neither can I say that knowing them made it *worth it*....
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Belle
Mark, I didn't want to let this one die on the 2nd page just yet. You've asked some very good questions on these polls of yours.
I think there was no value at all to TWI, but I was in during the 90's and missed all the great times that people wax nostalgic about. I have tried to find something good about my experience and I can't find a d*mn thing. I am smarter and wiser, but I don't think it's because of anything GOOD or of value from TWI.
;)-->
That being said, I do completely and honestly see how people DO have good things to share and good memories of their time in TWI. I love to read about those times and about the fun people had. I'm just not one of those people.
:)-->
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
belle
there were many many good times back in the 70's and early 80's
and a lot, i mean a lot of real love
til the gestapo arrived
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markomalley
Rascal/Belle:
I actually asked all three of those questions together for a good reason.
"Value" is a personal view of what the reader got out of the time in TWI on a personal basis.
"Correct Doctrine" is a personal belief of what was sold by TWI (a view of the quality of the product)
"Regret" looks at whether a person considers their decisions to be mistakes or not.
The interesting thing about asking the three questions as a set is that about 30% of the people responding to the questions think that what TWI thought was right and that they really liked their involvement in TWI (at least at some point in time). (If you look at a poll posted by WW, you'll note that 17% of the respondents of his poll believed TWI was "really accurate.") But nobody, NOBODY wishes he/she was still active in TWI (according to the "regrets" question).
I find that to be absolutely fascinating. Frankly, its not the result I was expecting. But, it is what it is. If the results would be consistent, I should be able to ask an additional question about how one worships/fellowships and about 20-30% of the respondents should answer with CES/CFF/etc. or that they would if they could. Based on anecdotal evidence from the quality/nature of posts, I don't believe I'd find that type of result. (I honestly think I'd see about 10% -- do either of you think the percentage would be much different?)
So what does that mean? There are a number of possibilities, but that might be best left for discussion. Should a new thread be started to explore the hold of Wierwillian theology on people who don't/won't practice with Wierwillian groups (I say Wierwillian not because I believe he had an original thought in his life, but a convenient abbreviation for the fusion of other groups' theologoies that he taught through TWI and have been carried on to one degree or another through the offshoots). Or would such a thread be inflammatory?
You tell me...
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Belle
I don't think you'll find a 30% CES/CFF/Offshoot response, but I think it would be higher than 10%. More people follow their doctrine and structure than readily admit on here because of the backlash from those who don't, I think.
:)--> Anonymously I think more people would admit to it.
Sounds like a great thread and yes, it could become inflammatory because of the high emotional investment people make regarding their spiritual beliefs. MOST of us can discuss heated things without flaming others and hopefully we're all learning to ignore those who do flame.
;)-->
I'd also like to know more about the people who voted that they wished the TWI they knew and loved was still around. Do they mean that they loved being involved with TWI so much that even knowing about all the abuse, plagarism, lies and manipulation they'd still go back to TWI if they could feel the same way they did when they were initially involved?
Do they mean that if TWI really was what they THOUGHT it was when they were involved and feeling all warm and fuzzy about it, that they would go back?
What exactly do they mean that they would go back to? Given the answer it could be perceived as them voting that if TWI brought back PFAL, re-instituted the ROA and WOW program, started playing awesome music again and people went back to love-bombing and allowing people to come and go as they please that they would return despite all the ugliness and evil that would most likely continue.....
*shrug* I dunno.
Good questions, Mark. Thanks for asking them. Thanks to everyone for voting.
:)-->
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oldiesman
The 70's were great but I had the time of my life going on the 1 month motorcycle trip with Dr. & Mrs. and the believers.
They took VP's motorcoach and way prods. motorcoach and there was no hanky panky on those coaches as far as I know.
:D-->
We did visit a striptease establishment upon our arrival in Canada.
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GarthP2000
Ohh, worth about $1.49.
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George Aar
Hell, looking back there was "value" in a lot of my experiences.
There was value in:
1. Putting my hand in a bucket of 500 degree asphalt
2. Going through the windshield of a GTO (after a rather sudden and dramatic stop)
3. Watching my father die of a heart attack
4. Getting fired from my job
5. Getting food poisoning
and the list goes on...
I don't recommend any of these experiences, BTW. But they do all contribute to making me who I am.
Should I wax poetic and talk about how "blessed" I am that they all happened to me?
I think not...
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Juan Cruz
Aw, George, won't cha just wax poetic about this for a moment or two? I would love to hear the story.
Did you think it was something else?
What did you think it was?
Remember, poetic
(or not...
as you wish).
Let me start you off...
I stuck my hand
in a bucket of 500 degree asphalt...
[Ok, you take it from there, Buddy...]
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George Aar
O.K., if you insist:
I stuck my hand
in a bucket of 500 degree asphalt... (due to stumbling while carrying said bucket)
and immediately started to panic. This panic manifested itself at first in the linear, highly-auditory panic - the LHAP mode (running around screaming at the top of my lungs). But shortly devolved into the vertical, moderately obscene panic - VMOP mode (jumping up and down in place while cursing at the top of my lungs).
After considerable effort put into both of these modalities, I eventually resorted to the simpler, but every bit as ineffective, LDAW mode (lying down and wimpering).
After considerably more time these techniques all gave way to the DTYSAFPO coping strategy (drink till you're stupid and finally pass out).
Then after just a few short weeks, everything was just fine. Boy, and the lessons I learned!
Geeze, I sure miss "hot" roofing! I mean, back in the beginning, before it got all messed up. Wow, we had so much fun, and the people were all so great! Sniff...
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Ham
Ah, memories of roofing..
I remember a time I went to help somebody with some roofing work..
They covered up a big hole in the roof with some tar paper. The one guy turned to the other and said, "no problem here, WE'LL remember that there is a hole there.."
Then I leisurely take a stroll accross the roof..
No problem for THEM!
:D-->
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Juan Cruz
George,
Well....
what it lacks in poetry
it makes up for
-in cool acronymns
-AND my healthy dose of
Schadenfreude
now back to the very important topic of this thread - which, I think, you have already nailed down,
cleverly,
logically,
fairly poetically.
All the best,
JC
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Belle
George, you have got to be the funniest curmudgeon I've ever met.
:)--> Thank you for induldging us!
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HCW
Interesting approach to this topic, Mark. Thanks for the thought provoking questions. I actually felt like I didn't have answers for them.
Value?
I'm feeling like the period from the America Awakes National tour in '76 through Sound Out '84 could be called the "golden years" of TWI. From '71 through 1975 things were "ramping up" one might say. After Sound Out, I don't remember any big national event that the ministry was focusing on.
VPW's health took a turn south. POP hit in '86 and all hell broke loose, LITERALLY.
The collective ministry focus on the big deal events, in a sense WAS The Way's ministry. Lots (maybe most) of the GREAT times centered around those events. The way I see it, building for those big events, built the ministry, it gave us goals and objectives more tangible than "Word Over The Word." After each event the ministry was bigger, more capable, etc.
Of course, I'd love to relive those great times in my present reality of life. I'd love it if I could feel like my oldest who is in her first full week of college on the east coast could be in her first full week of in residence in The Way Corps too. That's where the problem begins, at least in my thinking. I can trust that there is a measure of integrity at Yale and that my daughter actually IS getting "the finest education money can buy" from some of the finest minds in anywhere in the world in their fields.
The bad entered TWI (IMO) when "major leadership" forgot that they had "enough" of people's lives to make themselves personally rich and powerful... enough. TWI could have grown and become an institution. It seems the basic focus at the top leadership level was, or maybe became off kilter. Lost the integrity.
I think it could be great if the TWI of "the golden years" were alive & well today. With today's communication technology and "yesterday's heart" TWI could be well on the way to "Word Over The World" by now and be filling in the gaps, so to speak.
I think there was great value in the IDEA that was TWI. What I wish were around now is a truly home based, truly Christian organization that REALLY believes the Bible.... and acts accordingly.
Then, I think the good would FAR outweigh the bad (which we will always have with us) our daily fellowship would be worth whatever hardships we faced along the way and there absolutely would be good to the place.
I attend and do work for the ministry of a great church. There are a LOT of great churches, ministries in the US & world. Getting one church to work together with us on ANYTHING at all is worse than pulling teeth. Even within denominations pretty much every church has an "every church for himself" attitude.
My church does THIS. Your church that. Godspeed brother, you do your thang, WE'll do ours. The non spoken thing is that "everbody" seem believe God is telling them to do what they do, so they DON'T wanna do an idea YOU might have.... To have a single-minded national group of people focused on building... whatever, like TWI used to be would be heavenly.
At one time TWI could send a single message around the world, and have it confirmed as recieved - - accurately in less than 24 hours (remember Blue Alerts anyone? Green? Red? etc??) over the phone. We could mobilize our people in every major city in the country at the snap of a finger have people show up at pretty much any location in the country.
What I wish, as far as TWI being around today would be.... Imagine. Twig Coordinator training in Indianapolis at the dome where the Colts play. Every TC gets a Varizon, or NextTel cellphone on the nationwide free calling plan ("IN," or whatever) TWI foots the bill for (say 1,000) minutes per mo. Training states that you pay for your minutes over the plan limit. Any believer who wanted, could purchase a phone and be part of the plan. How about a ministry that utilized the collective buying power of all of our tithes and ABS to buy a Family plan from a cell phone carrier. Imagine the discount!
Unlimited text messaging, every service at levels from HQ, root (international), Limbs, maybe down to area, streamed live to the web. The archived by subject title. Custom cellphone or pocket PC browsers powered by bluetooth (or whatever proprietary communications protocol believers may have invented) that can can pick up and dial into live teachings happening all over the world in "every" language.
TWI's website being a true internet portal with discussion forums like this one, topical chat rooms, an eBay type abundant sharing cyber-center where believers from all over the world could share of their abundance with those who need it. (I could get rid of some of the baby equipment in my basement!) This stuff would be available to every believer from any comuter in the world.
Imagine document repositories with an indexed library of every WC research paper ever written available for download as a pdf. Post pictures from your local area meeting. How about a before & after shot of YOUR guy with a whithered arm that you ministered to & he got healed?
Way Magazine on DVD! Electronic subsriptions. Get your way mag online OR in print. HQ staff would be near 5,000 by now and HQ would be like Microsoft's HQ. still keeping the quaint country charm.
Working late? Put on your headphones or speaker phone and conference call to twig. Text message this week's cookine provider to get an extra bag of Chips Ahoy on the way over.
The Safety Dept could have grown to include our own version of what we have here in Ohio.. Task force One. Imagine a group of believing believers, equipped with the finest and trained to hadle disaster relief like down in New Orleans area now.
I believe TWI COULD have grown into that by now.
Some people who came to TWI later 80's, 90's & beyond and even some who didn't get to HQ much never knew about was the cutting edge inventions, and things TWI staff did and were working on. We did work like a Biblical color - music harmony study where we related the music frequency lengths to wavelengths in light and charted color in relation to music notes. That allowed us to do paintings "in the key of an augumented c minor chord" if we wanted. Or whatever chord.
Ambassador One was the first plane of its type in the world to get an engine upgrade to "Super Condor" allowing it to fly faster, higher and over longer distances. That plane could take off from New Knoxville and fly overseas.
That auditorium was built to specs that would handle any stage show in production on broadway. When it was built it was said to be the best acoustical house anywhere between New York and Chicago. The plan was to bring traveling broadway shows to New Knoxville and give anyone in the area opportunities to see world class entertainment in their back yard. It has what at the time was "new" and state of the art cordless headphones and seven separate audio channels to do real time translations in up to seven languages simultaneously. You could sit anywhere in the aud. plop on the headphones nad hear whatever you were seeing translated into your language.
One thing I think almost "nobody" knew about was the "Snow Way." It was some newfangled arctic cat kinda all terrain snow vehicle with tracks like a tank. They planned to use it at Gunnison for tours up in the mountains in winter. We had a group of inventors who would pray & believe God to just invent stuff!
TWI's I.T. dept. built a software package we called "Wordworker, The Computerized New Testament" in 1979. We had people doing all kinds of stuff all over the country. ALL of that fizzled out when LCM took over and died altogether when POP hit the fan and was "buried" with the great exodus in 1989.
How do I know TWI could have done all that stuff
and even more? Well. Harve Platig was just a TWI staffer when I was there early 80's. He advanced to Vice President. Where would I have advanced to by now? What about others like LZ who was a senior person there back then? The talent in TWI was phenominal. Free thinking individuals with talent, brains and the spirit of God very much alive in them.
There was value. There absolutely was some good to the place. If we could have just kept moving in the direction and growing at the rate we were going...It could have happened.
Instead. You have Rosalie and co. lounging in her pool while WC servants dust, clean and bring them drinks.
Unfortunately few people were exposed to what value there may have been.
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Ham
Absolutely.. others offered kind suggestions along the way (Igotout and others) and were not only ignored, but given "the bums rush" out of the joint..
Apparently there was some things- and people- of value in TWI. Why they threw both off the ship still is a puzzle to me.
Look what's left in their two-class society. The rosies and donnas, and the cleaners, dusters and food tasters.
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danteh1
when i took the PFAL class in the mid '70s, there were actual people who were really fired up to move the word as it 'should' have been taught.
But in and about the very late '70's things started to change dramatically. The leaders started to get as some people have said changing into gestappo type people.
There was actuall wanting to help people who wanted answers in thier lives. But it changed to the leaders wanting to controll who did what and when. Everything had to be done by "THIER" standards, not how it should be done with the love of GOD.
the way TWI is run now, there is absolutly no peace, love, compassion, or any sign of the GOD that is love and peace in sight at any of the TWI sites or at any of the classes that they offer.
All TWI wants to do now is controll what people do in thier lives and rake in the money they say is due to get the spiritual protection that "TWI" says is available and offers.
GOD is love and it doesn't take 50 to 60 percent of the money a person makes to get it.
When i was in and was going to fellowships, if you didn't show up for a week or two, the belivers were more than glad to see you again. They didn't rake you over the coals as to why you wern't there or what caused u to leave GOD's protection.
All TWI is now is a bunch of legalistic ba$$tards that in practice don't really care about the people but the money that roll's in to the coffers.
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danteh1
HCW
What you said the ministry could have been like, could have been true if things hadden't made a bad turn somewhere and the train jumped the tracks.
Too bad we, the ex-belivers that are out ofd TWIts controll, couldn't take up where TWIts should have gone.
Can't u just see it now, Ted F. as the head of the music department and having GREAT sounding music produced with each and every CD produced? And WW as head of the reaserch department. Of course PAW would have to help with running a smooth and logical web page for all who want to be "in the know" bout what is happening with what's going on.
Any more IDEAs???
:D--> 
--> 
:D-->
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HCW
Yeah danteh, I feel you on that one.
Its too bad that "we" as in current believers who are out of TWI's control HAVEN'T taken up where we left off in TWI. Current history shows that "some are of Lynn, some are of Shroyer, Geer, etc., just as what happened in the first century.
We've gone our separate ways. Some have said, "the hell with the whole "God thing" altogether. In reality it seems we're no different than the rest of the Christian church. There are people out there doing great things for God on one corner, others doing things for God on another.
Problem is there doesn't seem to be any one leader all of the other leaders are willing to follow... How about we rally behind Pat, "just kill the bastard" Robertson and his angel-haired sidekick? I don't mean to disparage the 700 Club but I think a LOT of people see them that way.
One thing VPW had going for him was the ability to make people believe and follow him. Maybe we've all been burned a little too crispy by the VP's, Robertsons, and others to EVER rally around a single charismatic leader of the entire church??? I don't know.
For me the other side of the coin is that is seems like far too many guys run churches & ministries more because THEY want to be king than they desire to serve THE King. They seem to live like, "Yeah, I'll serve the King, as long as I get to be the "king server." YOU follw me and I'll tell you which way the King says WE should go.
That's the basic business model for churches today in America. Personally, I think it turns off most of the best & brightest minds who have not been indoctrinated into the church as children. I think maybe they smell "something a little bit fishy" from their POV that "we" may feel is sweet smelling.
There will be no real spiritual revival in this country until the church does a better job of meeting people's basic spiritual needs without a "bible behind their back." Jesus got people's attention by filling their bellys with lunch. After that he just started talking, saying things that really made sense to them.
TWI, after getting people's attention, starting using us to feed their greed. Lost what value they had in the process. Was it a dream or a nightmare?
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danteh1
Hey HCW
I'll throw my hat into the ring as leader of the new improved "church of what 'THEY' thought were rejects" people.
First thing though is to come up with the heads of the different parts of the cleaning crew and cesspool areas.
Fist off we need a person to take care of "Spit" pollishing all of our ashtrays (for those who smoke) and "Spitoons" for those who inbibe to the "chew".....................................
YEA!!! u guessed it, 'OL LCM himself. Why waist good spittle. RIGHT???????
For maintenance of the cesspool...... Drum roll please.................. R.R. (cause of all the Shineola she can spread)
AND D*nna M**tin**le as the cleanup lady for the guest bedrooms (sheets, vacuming, window washing, ECT.)
I offer fair and honest reporting to all of the belivers, or Pat can report any transgressions that occure.
All campaine goes into qa special coffer to be used as a fund for a huge BBQ every year 1 month after my Bday (which was in the same month as an annual event in Ohio (My Bday is in August)) for all the belivers.
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