HAte takes energy--more energy than I have to spare on the likes of VPW , LCM, RR etal.
I ask God not to hold their sins against them.
I cannot forgive what TWI did as an organization with the assistance of the individuals to my children.
But then, as someone pointed out, I can't forgive them for what they did to someone else. Their forgiveness must come from my children. And that is not my business even to bring up in either of my sons lives, much less my daughters.
But forgiveness is predicated on the sinner's repentence asd asking for forgiveness.
Did/have VPW, RR, LCM, J&C K---, S & P A-------, RU, SU, SD and so many others who knew the truth of Alaska quietly confess to their maker in the still wee hours of the morning that they had sinned and ask for HIS forgiveness??
I don't know but For THEIR sakes I hope so, and
knowing GOD, I know if their repentance was true forgiveness was granted just as it granted to us all in the same circumstances.
My Current Anger toward TWI is their steadfast refusal to say two little words "I'm Sorry" not just to me, not to just my children, but to the countless other me's, and children out there that they and the actions they condoned have caused a lifetime of hurt and scars.
Until as an an entity I see true Repentance from TWI I will continue to post, to rant, to vent on this forum until that"evil Empire" collapses
I believe there are still good people in TWI but they are frightened people intent on protecting themselves. They are taught not to perform kindnesses that they would like, for fear of encouraging weakness, they are taught to bring others fault's up for scrutiny, which has the effect of making their own life look better and keeps them out of the heat.
I personally don't have alot of trust where TWI innies are concerned. They may be good people but the teachings they've absorbed and the pressure they are under make them so they are not good friends, and often not even good to their familiies due to their beliefs.
The doctrine and practical habits that trickle down from the root, which I do believe is rotten, does have an effect on the little people.
This is important to grasp because when one can finally separate the people from the entity, one can finally see the cult.
Ok Miss Cool I'm trying to grasp this. So I have a question. What is or what makes up the entity? Is it the charter or the buildings or what? I ask because I would say at least the trustees are a part of that entity. So could you be so kind as to explain a bit more.
The Structure. In this case it is/was known as 'The Way Tree'.
The Official Rules. In any corporate organization there are Articles of Incorporation and By-laws.
The Governing Body. In this case, the BOD of 3.
TWI was/is built upon what amounts to a pyramid scheme. This coupled with a bod of 3 and no system of checks and balances ends up being a top-heavy system that requires a huge anchor to keep it from toppling. That anchor, in twi's case, was/is all of the resources of those who are not at the top.
With this sort of organization, the only possible results are the stealing, killing and destroying of those on the bottom for the sake of those on the top.
If twi were anything but a church, it would be facing criminal actions against the organization.
I think the number of really nice people still in twi is/has diminished rapidly,the rapidly rising 'climate' of twi leads me to think the really nice people will at some point be heavily confronted and then hopefully they will do the right thing and jump ship with 'the good stuff'.
The Structure. In this case it is/was known as 'The Way Tree'.
The Official Rules. In any corporate organization there are Articles of Incorporation and By-laws.
The Governing Body. In this case, the BOD of 3.
Thanks Cool for the reply.
So the charter or bylaws and articles of Inc. And the trustees or BOD and then the way tree or structure. This makes up the entity that you are refering to when you say you hate TWI.
Ok so now I am confused again. If these are the things you Hate then why did you post this?
quote:
Originally posted by oldiesman:
So then when you say "I HATE TWI" "I HATE TWI" "I HATE TWI", what you really hate is the corporate entity and not Rosealie or Yves, or Howard Allen?
Exactly.
Are these people not part of the BOD or in Howards case was. You said you hate the entity which includes them but you don't hate them. If they are one of the three parts you hate how can you not say you hate them? I'm lost here.
Yeah, I still have a problem with the word 'hate' so....I dislike intensely those who hide behind or within t.w.i.s' structure/entity so as to enable them to continue their deviant ungodly unrighteous behavior because they know that in 'the world' brothers and uncles would be busting down their doors to exact some well deserved recompense !
I also have a theory that some of them actually believe that because they are 'so right on with the Word' and so 'gung ho' with it that they are 'allowed' to sin a little ??
After a while, "corporate the entity" takes on a life of its own.
Initially, it was VP.
Later VP's inner circle.
Then Martindale's inner circle.
By now it's moving along under it's own momentum (or intertia) regardless of what any individual does
Exactly, Oak, exactly.
***************************
quote:
Originally posted by Allan:
Yeah, I still have a problem with the word 'hate' so....I dislike intensely those who hide behind or within t.w.i.s' structure/entity so as to enable them to continue their deviant ungodly unrighteous behavior because they know that in 'the world' brothers and uncles would be busting down their doors to exact some well deserved recompense !
Wow, Allan! You've got it exactly, too! I'm amazed...and impressed!
quote:
I also have a theory that some of them actually believe that because they are 'so right on with the Word' and so 'gung ho' with it that they are 'allowed' to sin a little ??
Yes. This is exactly the mentality behind twi's 'spiritually mature enough to handle it' shtick. Sigh.
***************************
White Dove,
I fully believe that if men like Howard Allen, vpw and lcm were never a part of the structure of twi, they would not have been able to get away with what they got away with...or even perpetrate it in the first place...at least not as far and as often as they did.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. TWI's structure was designed (either by purpose or by accident...I don't know...but after hearing UH the few times I heard him, I think it was by design...but not to the ends it was taken) to give the bod absolute power.
With few exceptions, there has not been a person on the bod...or in any 'leadership' position in twi...who could function effectively outside of twi's structure...out in the 'real world'...without some major personal thinking/personal habits overhauls.
This is not just found in twi, either. Pat Robertson is going down a very similar path his predecessor went down: thinking he has the right, the authority, the power to say and do as he darned well pleases...regardless of the rest of humanity...or what the bible says.
This is also not a 'new' or 'modern' problem. Look at King David in the bible...or any of the many other kings. Or the Pharisees.
I guess what I'm saying boils down to 'love the sinner, hate the sin'. (But not like Fred Phelps does it!!!!)
There is individual sin...and then there is group sin.
Most often our minds tend towards looking at 'mob mentality' when we think of group sin. But in actuality, 'mob mentality' is not the norm.
However, there is another kind of group sin that happens every day, thousands of times per day, and is so commonplace that most of us are active (either passively or aggressively) participants and don't even realize it. It's found in every group of people everywhere.
It's simple selfishness.
How is selfishness a group sin? If the group did not tolerate it, it would not happen.
There's oh so much more I can say about this! But I think it's going to be easier to communicate what I'm trying say if there's a back-and-forth going on. So I'll stop here and hope for you...or anybody else...to ponder these things here with me.
:D-->
And, btw, thank you...and everybody else...for participating in this discussion! You all make me think and reason!
That is funny that you say that, when I first entered TWI, there were times I thought.."hey this is a pyramid scheme...I got recruited and then I recruit and the more I recruit the more "status" oops spiritual I get. The more the higher ups notice me and the faster I climb up that ladder. For what? Oh yeah a crown in the after life. :)-->
I absolutely hated my family coordinator, she was a theif, a liar, and a cheat, but very much admired by TWI, maybe it was her big.....ya know
I remember you saying awhile back that it was a pyramid scheme...and it's stuck with me all this time...which is where this topic came from, btw. So TYVM! :D-->
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ex70sHouston
Just remember that the vast majority of people who are still in are nice.
Also remember.
The corporate culture that is there comes from the people. When the members don't like whats happining the culture changes or dies.
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oldiesman
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Shellon
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CoolWaters
Exactly.
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oldiesman
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Oakspear
I hate that guy who used to sit next to me at Word in Business, carrying a huge briefcase, two clipboards, three bibles, and a Day-Timer.
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Oakspear
I mean I hate the organization that convinced him to bring all that stuff
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templelady
HAte takes energy--more energy than I have to spare on the likes of VPW , LCM, RR etal.
I ask God not to hold their sins against them.
I cannot forgive what TWI did as an organization with the assistance of the individuals to my children.
But then, as someone pointed out, I can't forgive them for what they did to someone else. Their forgiveness must come from my children. And that is not my business even to bring up in either of my sons lives, much less my daughters.
But forgiveness is predicated on the sinner's repentence asd asking for forgiveness.
Did/have VPW, RR, LCM, J&C K---, S & P A-------, RU, SU, SD and so many others who knew the truth of Alaska quietly confess to their maker in the still wee hours of the morning that they had sinned and ask for HIS forgiveness??
I don't know but For THEIR sakes I hope so, and
knowing GOD, I know if their repentance was true forgiveness was granted just as it granted to us all in the same circumstances.
My Current Anger toward TWI is their steadfast refusal to say two little words "I'm Sorry" not just to me, not to just my children, but to the countless other me's, and children out there that they and the actions they condoned have caused a lifetime of hurt and scars.
Until as an an entity I see true Repentance from TWI I will continue to post, to rant, to vent on this forum until that"evil Empire" collapses
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Bramble
I believe there are still good people in TWI but they are frightened people intent on protecting themselves. They are taught not to perform kindnesses that they would like, for fear of encouraging weakness, they are taught to bring others fault's up for scrutiny, which has the effect of making their own life look better and keeps them out of the heat.
I personally don't have alot of trust where TWI innies are concerned. They may be good people but the teachings they've absorbed and the pressure they are under make them so they are not good friends, and often not even good to their familiies due to their beliefs.
The doctrine and practical habits that trickle down from the root, which I do believe is rotten, does have an effect on the little people.
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WhiteDove
Ok Miss Cool I'm trying to grasp this. So I have a question. What is or what makes up the entity? Is it the charter or the buildings or what? I ask because I would say at least the trustees are a part of that entity. So could you be so kind as to explain a bit more.
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CoolWaters
The parts of the entity are:
TWI was/is built upon what amounts to a pyramid scheme. This coupled with a bod of 3 and no system of checks and balances ends up being a top-heavy system that requires a huge anchor to keep it from toppling. That anchor, in twi's case, was/is all of the resources of those who are not at the top.
With this sort of organization, the only possible results are the stealing, killing and destroying of those on the bottom for the sake of those on the top.
If twi were anything but a church, it would be facing criminal actions against the organization.
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Allan
I think the number of really nice people still in twi is/has diminished rapidly,the rapidly rising 'climate' of twi leads me to think the really nice people will at some point be heavily confronted and then hopefully they will do the right thing and jump ship with 'the good stuff'.
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Oakspear
After a while, "corporate the entity" takes on a life of its own.
Initially, it was VP.
Later VP's inner circle.
Then Martindale's inner circle.
By now it's moving along under it's own momentum (or intertia) regardless of what any individual does
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Oakspear
As with anything with its own momentum, it takes a lot more effort to stop it than it does to get it going.
But as far as who or what I have a problem with (not hate), it's individuals who crapped on me and mine, not an organization.
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WhiteDove
Thanks Cool for the reply.
So the charter or bylaws and articles of Inc. And the trustees or BOD and then the way tree or structure. This makes up the entity that you are refering to when you say you hate TWI.
Ok so now I am confused again. If these are the things you Hate then why did you post this?
quote:
Originally posted by oldiesman:
So then when you say "I HATE TWI" "I HATE TWI" "I HATE TWI", what you really hate is the corporate entity and not Rosealie or Yves, or Howard Allen?
Exactly.
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dmiller
Wow -- a loaded question here.
Individuals make up the organization because they believe what it espouses.
The organization promotes because of individuals who are in it.
Makes me want to ask "Which came first -- the chicken, or the egg"?
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Allan
Yeah, I still have a problem with the word 'hate' so....I dislike intensely those who hide behind or within t.w.i.s' structure/entity so as to enable them to continue their deviant ungodly unrighteous behavior because they know that in 'the world' brothers and uncles would be busting down their doors to exact some well deserved recompense !
I also have a theory that some of them actually believe that because they are 'so right on with the Word' and so 'gung ho' with it that they are 'allowed' to sin a little ??
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CoolWaters
Exactly, Oak, exactly.
***************************
Wow, Allan! You've got it exactly, too! I'm amazed...and impressed!
Yes. This is exactly the mentality behind twi's 'spiritually mature enough to handle it' shtick. Sigh.
***************************
White Dove,
I fully believe that if men like Howard Allen, vpw and lcm were never a part of the structure of twi, they would not have been able to get away with what they got away with...or even perpetrate it in the first place...at least not as far and as often as they did.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. TWI's structure was designed (either by purpose or by accident...I don't know...but after hearing UH the few times I heard him, I think it was by design...but not to the ends it was taken) to give the bod absolute power.
With few exceptions, there has not been a person on the bod...or in any 'leadership' position in twi...who could function effectively outside of twi's structure...out in the 'real world'...without some major personal thinking/personal habits overhauls.
This is not just found in twi, either. Pat Robertson is going down a very similar path his predecessor went down: thinking he has the right, the authority, the power to say and do as he darned well pleases...regardless of the rest of humanity...or what the bible says.
This is also not a 'new' or 'modern' problem. Look at King David in the bible...or any of the many other kings. Or the Pharisees.
I guess what I'm saying boils down to 'love the sinner, hate the sin'. (But not like Fred Phelps does it!!!!)
There is individual sin...and then there is group sin.
Most often our minds tend towards looking at 'mob mentality' when we think of group sin. But in actuality, 'mob mentality' is not the norm.
However, there is another kind of group sin that happens every day, thousands of times per day, and is so commonplace that most of us are active (either passively or aggressively) participants and don't even realize it. It's found in every group of people everywhere.
It's simple selfishness.
How is selfishness a group sin? If the group did not tolerate it, it would not happen.
There's oh so much more I can say about this! But I think it's going to be easier to communicate what I'm trying say if there's a back-and-forth going on. So I'll stop here and hope for you...or anybody else...to ponder these things here with me.
And, btw, thank you...and everybody else...for participating in this discussion! You all make me think and reason!
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WhiteDove
Thanks Coolwaters! Pondering now.......
BBL....
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AdiosMiCorazon
Hey CW
That is funny that you say that, when I first entered TWI, there were times I thought.."hey this is a pyramid scheme...I got recruited and then I recruit and the more I recruit the more "status" oops spiritual I get. The more the higher ups notice me and the faster I climb up that ladder. For what? Oh yeah a crown in the after life.
:)-->
I absolutely hated my family coordinator, she was a theif, a liar, and a cheat, but very much admired by TWI, maybe it was her big.....ya know
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CoolWaters
Hey there {{{{{Adios!!!}}}} LTNS. How are you????
I remember you saying awhile back that it was a pyramid scheme...and it's stuck with me all this time...which is where this topic came from, btw. So TYVM!
:D-->
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