Matthew 27:52 & 53--The Saints that rose at the resurrection

[cman]

The common belief was and is in many beliefs that upon Christ's ascension all the people that died would ascend with him. Leading captivity captive, as it is written. Daniel 12:2 as well as saying throughout the epistles that we were raised with him.

Not sure if this is the reason for this text but this is what I think of.

[OldSkool]

2 hours ago, Mike said:

This same idea of merging religions for unity was later taken up by the Catholic church in all their missionary work over the centuries.

That merging action was actually initiated by Constantine in the third century and his actions to develop a paganized version of Christianity set the scene for eventual emergance of the Roman Catholic Church. Rome shifted from persecuting Christians to paganizing Christians beliefs/practices in order to make Christianity palatable to Romans for political purposes. So, should the verses in question have been added or altered for those reasons, history is certainly supportive. 

I still feel there is a smallish chance that if the verses were actually added as forgeries, that Pharisees could have been the unseen hand in this case. They are cited in scripture as coming up with all kinds of schemes to hide Christ from the masses including but not limited to bribing the Romans to say that Jesus didnt rise but his disciples stole away his body in secret. So, with Christ taking his last breath it's somehwhat plausible that everyone in Judea knew or had hear of some version of what happened, such as the temple veil being ripped from top to bottom.. So, to say something totally false and unbelievable or even ridicoulous would serve to discredit the first century Church...totally my speculation, totally my opinion, Im just saying...perhaps..

Edited July 15, 2023 by OldSkool

[Mark Sanguinetti]

8 hours ago, cman said:

The common belief was and is in many beliefs that upon Christ's ascension all the people that died would ascend with him. Leading captivity captive, as it is written. Daniel 12:2 as well as saying throughout the epistles that we were raised with him.

Not sure if this is the reason for this text but this is what I think of.

Does cman also think that people who persecuted followers of Christ, for example religious 1st century Pharisees are also in heaven now???  In addition, people who committed crimes of theft and murder so that they could make much money. Does cman think they are in heaven now or in hell with punishment?? Honestly, I do not think either one. Instead I believe, like many people here, that they are in the grave or dead, awaiting a future resurrection of judgment as read in Revelation 20:11-15.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Mark Sanguinetti

[cman]

the easy way out is to put it off to some hypothetical theory... fine, ok, go ahead...

anyway, mark, not sure who you are speaking to.....

not understanding forgiveness is forgivable ..... the only way to know it and see how really big it is, is to experience it

[cman]

the answers have been right there all along, just cannot be comprehended without trust in God and the Holy Spirit...letting go and letting that spirit guide into all truth 

rather it's been beaten on and beaten till it's no longer relevant to say what the truth of the matter is

claiming to be a follower of Christ yet denying the power of the resurrection 

[Mark Sanguinetti]

5 hours ago, cman said:

claiming to be a follower of Christ yet denying the power of the resurrection 

If these followers of Christ, called Saints, were literally dead that were in graves, why did a number of Saints die in only a few years or the length of the earthly ministry of Jesus Christ?? Since this miracle was only written by a follower of Christ, who previously was perhaps a tax collector (Matthew 9:9-11) while working with the Romans. I wonder did only tax collectors have enough faith to see the power of the resurrection????? Using sarcasm! 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Mark Sanguinetti

[cman]

maybe there's a question in there...someone else can discover...

don't crap all over the seat and expect me to sit in it

[Raf]

As an unbeliever, I think you have to cling to the notion that these verses are not authentic and hope that the evidence supports that view.

The context is off. That should be enough to call it into question. 

To say it's obviously BS on the surface is inadequate: MANY verses are obviously BS on the surface. You can't dismiss scripture on that standard because you would dismiss most scripture. 

I would, as a believer, be most willing to conclude that these verses are forgeries on the grounds of contextual evidence and, as TWI did, point to the whatever textual criticism you can find to support it.