So true, Bliss. :)--> I was young, excited, energetic and would give people the shirt off my back if they not only needed it, but merely wanted it. People seemed to genuinely enjoy being around me.
10 years later:
I felt like my prayers were bouncing off the ceiling.
I was oppressed and suffering from major self-esteem issues.
I was sad that I was never good enough for God.
I was worried about not being where God could bless and protect me.
I was suffering from panic attacks (but they were my fault)
I was egotistical because I knew more Bible than anyone outside TWI
I was cold and harsh with people because their "believing" was causing all the problems in their life.
I was un-sympathetic because they wouldn't listen to my know-it-all advice.
I was giving money out of fear and out of greed.
I felt so taken advantage of that I didn't want to help people with anything, much less give them my shirt.
I became very lonely.
I became very depressed.
I became physically and mentally ill.
Now, after only one year of freedom:
I have hope
I have joy
I have peace
I'm way more patient with people and situations
I have more control over my temper
I'm feeling, experiencing and enjoying my emotions!
I am getting healthy again
I have friends - TRUE friends
I have a great relationship with my family
I get along great with my co-workers (most of them :)--> )
I have a home and confidence in my savings and my future security
I love life! :D-->
I love others (regardless of what they believe)!:D-->
At the risk of torturing a metaphor, our "fruit", by which I mean the fruits listed in Galatians 5, aren't there so much to decorate the tree. The fruit is there to provide sustenance and nourishment for others in need.
Sure, I want peace, love joy to decorate my life. But I have it to provide for others.
And you know what? It's in giving the sustenance that seeds are scattered and some actually grow up to be trees planted by the river.
At the risk of torturing a metaphor, our "fruit", by which I mean the fruits listed in Galatians 5, aren't there so much to decorate the tree. The fruit is there to provide sustenance and nourishment for others in need.
Sure, I want peace, love joy to decorate my life. But I have it to provide for others.
And you know what? It's in giving the sustenance that seeds are scattered and some actually grow up to be trees planted by the river.
Thanks, Evan. Lightbulbs are going off in my head. I thought it was too good not to repeat.
Exactly what has been missing in my life for the last 10 years. Sure, in the beginning I had
fruit because I was learning about God and the bible and I was so happy I could fly...
So yes Oldies, I think TWI did good, for some. Depends on who their overseers were for one.
I happend to be "lucky" and had the best dang TC in the world (MO). We had a blast. Still friends to this day, (not in TWI). But somewhere
along the way, and shortly after, it was more and more
burdensome. I turned into a fruitless tree.
My fruit to help others was as much as "hey you want to come to my fellowship cuz that is the only way I'll help you!"
Well, a little praise report here:
Over the last 3 months or so, (since our new discovery and freedom),
we have helped more people than ever in the last 10 years! We have been such a help in our neighborhood, doing things we used to scoff at, and we are blessed! No strings attached.
No, "hey, how can I get the Word in here" thinking the whole time.
Just "I want to help, what can I do for YOU!"
It was great. My hubby and I are like different people.
I want to help others.
I want to be like Jesus Christ, and have him as a brother.
I want to give without agenda.
I want to make a difference in someones life..
I can, and I will.
bliss
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it." Mark Twain
I was a nice 'hardcase' guy before I got involved in twi,I was a nice 'hardcase' guy whilst in and I left still the nice 'hardcase' guy but with a lot more of the rightly divided Word.
I get your point, but I'd dispute one thing right off...the part about the "rightly divided word" as there is no such thing, biblically. The phrase itself is an incorrect interpretation. Sorry to nitpic but tis so.
Wierwille's "administrations thingy" is one of the biggest errors of his teaching system, effectively removing Jesus from His Lordship from those who fully walk out the implications.
probably more for the 'doctrinal section' but the administrations in the Bible seem to be glaringly obvious unless one believes in the pre-existence of Jesus, the 'deity' of Jesus etc..
The Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus was 'Michael the archangel'etc..
I still believe that 95% of the Bible is plain common horse sense (to quote someone else)
probably more for the 'doctrinal section' but the administrations in the Bible seem to be glaringly obvious unless one believes in the pre-existence of Jesus, the 'deity' of Jesus etc..
Not necessarily. ;)-->
You've been invited to the doctrinal section many times, Alan. Are you afraid to go down there or do you just enjoy derailing threads?
probably more for the 'doctrinal section' but the administrations in the Bible seem to be glaringly obvious unless one believes in the pre-existence of Jesus, the 'deity' of Jesus etc..
The Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus was 'Michael the archangel'etc..
I still believe that 95% of the Bible is plain common horse sense (to quote someone else)
I cannot gather where the notion of Jesus' pre-existence - or Jesus being God - is in some way contrary to the system of "administrations". How explain then our main contributor to the old teaching we received - the "ultra-dispensationalist" Bullinger, or his collegue A.E. Knoch, who emphasized our Lord's pre-existence?
Unfotunately, I seem to resemble Jack Fruit these days.
Allan, I need not argue dispensationalism with you. I'll just say that I am a limited dispensationalist myself and I believe Jesus preexisted (as what/whom isn't altogether clear to me) and that he is certainly divine. I just don't buy that unorthodox, unwarranted and unhealthy form that Bullinger or Wierwille espoused. It does cut at the root of jesus' direct Lordship over our lives.
The gospels don't apply directly to you? For that I am very very sorry.
I didn't start off that way......that was the reason I got in the vey, to bear fruit and serve others..... I learned it from years of being led by rotten practice.
bummer
but....I have already changed... start gathering baskets people, my fruit is ripe and it's coming down! (no sexual comments please)
Well, I think I developed a lot more "fruit" after leaving that lousy excuse for a religion.
I have seen people with real problems change- people TWI would drop in a heartbeat- just by consistently lending a hand, and without shoving my current set of arcane dogmas down their throat.
I think I would call it longsuffering- for lack of better definition.
The Evan makes a real good point:
quote:
At the risk of torturing a metaphor, our "fruit", by which I mean the fruits listed in Galatians 5, aren't there so much to decorate the tree
But that was what "fruit" was supposed to be used for in the old ministry. Hang it on the tree, and the people will come..
My fruit doesn't get hung on any stinking tree anymore..
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Belle
So true, Bliss.
:)--> I was young, excited, energetic and would give people the shirt off my back if they not only needed it, but merely wanted it. People seemed to genuinely enjoy being around me.
10 years later:
I felt like my prayers were bouncing off the ceiling.
I was oppressed and suffering from major self-esteem issues.
I was sad that I was never good enough for God.
I was worried about not being where God could bless and protect me.
I was suffering from panic attacks (but they were my fault)
I was egotistical because I knew more Bible than anyone outside TWI
I was cold and harsh with people because their "believing" was causing all the problems in their life.
I was un-sympathetic because they wouldn't listen to my know-it-all advice.
I was giving money out of fear and out of greed.
I felt so taken advantage of that I didn't want to help people with anything, much less give them my shirt.
I became very lonely.
I became very depressed.
I became physically and mentally ill.
Now, after only one year of freedom:
I have hope
I have joy
I have peace
I'm way more patient with people and situations
I have more control over my temper
I'm feeling, experiencing and enjoying my emotions!
I am getting healthy again
I have friends - TRUE friends
I have a great relationship with my family
I get along great with my co-workers (most of them
:)--> )
I have a home and confidence in my savings and my future security
I love life!
:D-->
I love others (regardless of what they believe)!
:D-->
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TheEvan
At the risk of torturing a metaphor, our "fruit", by which I mean the fruits listed in Galatians 5, aren't there so much to decorate the tree. The fruit is there to provide sustenance and nourishment for others in need.
Sure, I want peace, love joy to decorate my life. But I have it to provide for others.
And you know what? It's in giving the sustenance that seeds are scattered and some actually grow up to be trees planted by the river.
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oldiesman
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tonto
TheEvan said:
At the risk of torturing a metaphor, our "fruit", by which I mean the fruits listed in Galatians 5, aren't there so much to decorate the tree. The fruit is there to provide sustenance and nourishment for others in need.
Sure, I want peace, love joy to decorate my life. But I have it to provide for others.
And you know what? It's in giving the sustenance that seeds are scattered and some actually grow up to be trees planted by the river.
Thanks, Evan. Lightbulbs are going off in my head. I thought it was too good not to repeat.
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Shellon
Sounds like alot of 'fruit' to me. The right kind!
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bliss
Thanks Evan,
Exactly what has been missing in my life for the last 10 years. Sure, in the beginning I had
fruit because I was learning about God and the bible and I was so happy I could fly...
So yes Oldies, I think TWI did good, for some. Depends on who their overseers were for one.
I happend to be "lucky" and had the best dang TC in the world (MO). We had a blast. Still friends to this day, (not in TWI). But somewhere
along the way, and shortly after, it was more and more
burdensome. I turned into a fruitless tree.
My fruit to help others was as much as "hey you want to come to my fellowship cuz that is the only way I'll help you!"
Well, a little praise report here:
Over the last 3 months or so, (since our new discovery and freedom),
we have helped more people than ever in the last 10 years! We have been such a help in our neighborhood, doing things we used to scoff at, and we are blessed! No strings attached.
No, "hey, how can I get the Word in here" thinking the whole time.
Just "I want to help, what can I do for YOU!"
It was great. My hubby and I are like different people.
I want to help others.
I want to be like Jesus Christ, and have him as a brother.
I want to give without agenda.
I want to make a difference in someones life..
I can, and I will.
bliss
"We should be careful to get out of an experience only the wisdom that is in it." Mark Twain
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Allan
I was a nice 'hardcase' guy before I got involved in twi,I was a nice 'hardcase' guy whilst in and I left still the nice 'hardcase' guy but with a lot more of the rightly divided Word.
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TheEvan
I get your point, but I'd dispute one thing right off...the part about the "rightly divided word" as there is no such thing, biblically. The phrase itself is an incorrect interpretation. Sorry to nitpic but tis so.
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Allan
I don't want to 'dissitate' but can I um say ..to whom it was written and um..administrations and thingeys like that ?
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rascal
Wow, shell, can I just copy your list? Lol
Life IS good, I enjoy my family,
I enjoy my horses, dogs, cats,
and various and assundry critters,
I enjoy my beloved home, my creek,
I enjoy genuine friends,
I enjoy karate,
Lots of joy here I guess :-)
All fruit in a bountifull and blessed life.
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TheEvan
Wierwille's "administrations thingy" is one of the biggest errors of his teaching system, effectively removing Jesus from His Lordship from those who fully walk out the implications.
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Allan
probably more for the 'doctrinal section' but the administrations in the Bible seem to be glaringly obvious unless one believes in the pre-existence of Jesus, the 'deity' of Jesus etc..
The Jehovah Witnesses believe Jesus was 'Michael the archangel'etc..
I still believe that 95% of the Bible is plain common horse sense (to quote someone else)
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Belle
Not necessarily.
;)-->
You've been invited to the doctrinal section many times, Alan. Are you afraid to go down there or do you just enjoy derailing threads?
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oldiesman
Allan don't go down there.
It's all a conspiracy to get you to go to the basement.
:D-->
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wwjesuslaughat
I thought this was a thread about body shapes.
I'm a pear.
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TheInvisibleDan
I cannot gather where the notion of Jesus' pre-existence - or Jesus being God - is in some way contrary to the system of "administrations". How explain then our main contributor to the old teaching we received - the "ultra-dispensationalist" Bullinger, or his collegue A.E. Knoch, who emphasized our Lord's pre-existence?
God forbid if we should think like horses.
Or resemble pears.
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TheEvan
Unfotunately, I seem to resemble Jack Fruit these days.
Allan, I need not argue dispensationalism with you. I'll just say that I am a limited dispensationalist myself and I believe Jesus preexisted (as what/whom isn't altogether clear to me) and that he is certainly divine. I just don't buy that unorthodox, unwarranted and unhealthy form that Bullinger or Wierwille espoused. It does cut at the root of jesus' direct Lordship over our lives.
The gospels don't apply directly to you? For that I am very very sorry.
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Ham
I sometimes wear Fruit of the Loom.. does that count?
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Belle
boxers or briefs?
;)-->
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Ham
Only The Shadow knows..
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wwjesuslaughat
How big a shadow is it?
;)--> 
:o-->
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Ham
All right. But I'll be "brief" about it..
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bliss
Alright children, behave!!!
(i wear thong
:o-->)
Do I have to bring this back?
I wanted to bear fruit, I ended up just a BEAR!
No longsuffering
No patience
Wasn't that kind
No joy
etc...
I didn't start off that way......that was the reason I got in the vey, to bear fruit and serve others..... I learned it from years of being led by rotten practice.
bummer
but....I have already changed... start gathering baskets people, my fruit is ripe and it's coming down! (no sexual comments please)
bliss
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Ham
Well, I think I developed a lot more "fruit" after leaving that lousy excuse for a religion.
I have seen people with real problems change- people TWI would drop in a heartbeat- just by consistently lending a hand, and without shoving my current set of arcane dogmas down their throat.
I think I would call it longsuffering- for lack of better definition.
The Evan makes a real good point:
But that was what "fruit" was supposed to be used for in the old ministry. Hang it on the tree, and the people will come..
My fruit doesn't get hung on any stinking tree anymore..
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