Hi Wayfer not, I agree that we all need that personal connection to God. God is so individual He knows us personally and what it would take for us to communicate with Him. All He needs is our willingnes.(surrender, not possession, I knew what you meant) When I think of TWI doctrine of God speaks to our spirit and our spirit speaks to our mind, I think about all the examples in the bible where God spoke to people in many ways. In the O.T. there was the burning bush, the writing on the wall, the still small voice, and many examples. In the book of Acts there was the knock him down and blind him (Paul), dreams (Peter) angels (Philip) visions (Ananias). We were never taught to look for God's voice in anything other than God's spirit speaking to ours, etc. And then ofcourse there was the man of God or top leadership, they could always speak for God to us. We were so limited by the doctrine we were taught. I am so thankful that God is finally out of the box for me. Thanks for your post. Jewel
Since leaving, I've been involved in churches which have a praise and worship portion of their service. I can't tell you how healing this has been to my life. I feel like I've been more opened to a new world of communication with Him.
Wayfer Not! --- I hear that. :)-->
I don't attend church these days, but once was a time I did and the ones I went to had the praise and worship. At first I was put off by it, but being the good
*guest* that I was -- I didn't mind. After all it was their thing, not mine.
However after I went a couple of times, I remembered the thing docvic talked about (being a *fan*atic), and realized they were doing something he espoused, but never did practice. And then I began to see it in a different light.
You're right -- it opens up an entirely *new* avenue for communication, one that was closed to us back in twi. And even though I don't get into it like others do, it does make an excellent setting for my personal interaction with God and Jesus.
I agree wayfer not. The first time i went to a praise and worship service...I spent the entire time singing with tears just streaming down my face. I was shocked by how powerful and healing the experience was..but I was also so frustrated by twit teaching that I didn't fully participate even though I wanted to. It has been a process for me to gradually get more into it...but as I lean on God more and more my peace I have grows deeper and greater.
Yeppers! The first few times I visited a real church with real love for God and for JC, I felt more "connected" than I have been since my h.s. connection with them.
TWI made it clinical and dependent upon my hoop jumping which makes no sense to me at all given the fact that my parents do make me jump through hoops for their love and appreciation. They expect nothing from me. How much more would my heavenly father expect from me????
Great points you guys....I was STILL hoop jumping even 5 years after leaving twi....doing everything to the letter, because I was so afraid of suffering the promised consequences...
Finally one day, I suffered a blow so grievous...I finally had taken all that I could stand and told God that I gave up, because nothing I had ever been taught about him worked or seemed to be true....I had done EVERYTHING required of me, was operating every single principle faithfully, and none of that protected me from the evil that befell.
It was so wierd...all I can describe it as is finally being at peace....I could almost hear God saying....allRIGHT....now that you don`t think you *know* it all....we can start over....
I hadn`t thought about it as surrendering to him.....but that is EXACTLY what it was...and do you know that the connection that I had been missing seemed restored....that is when the blessings and answered prayers and things started making sense again.
Words are so inadequate to describe the intimacy of that moment.
ex10, I love that song and play (practice) it on my digital piano all the time. It took me a while to get over the 'surrender' part because of waybrain, but I can now play and sing it with all my heart.
It's a cold, intellectual style that fails to touch the heart.
quote:
Exactly! We learned to cut off all emotions. No wonder we kept trying to prove ourselves-we weren't fufilled. We still needed the emotional attachment to our Father God and to our Lord Jesus Christ.
Exactly! We learned to cut off all emotions. No wonder we kept trying to prove ourselves-we weren't fufilled. We still needed the emotional attachment to our Father God and to our Lord Jesus Christ.
ABSOLUTELY! We learned so much ABOUT God, and yet I never really felt I *knew* him in twi.
It was all formulas and principles...
IF you do A+B+C = spiritual growth and being well pleasing to God.
As I look back on it, it was definatly *works* so that God would be happy/like me.
The church I go to also has awesome praise and worship and it's not all scripted. During some of the services, I work the LDS (laser display system) and you never know what's going to happen next. You just have to trust that God won't let you down (and He doesn't).
As far as raising holy hands, it is in the Bible in Ps 28:2 and I Tim 2:8. A few weeks ago, I saw something in church that reminded me of our relationship with our Heavenly Father. There was a dad holding his little child's hand to take him to kids' church. That child had to reach up in order to hold onto the hand. That's when I saw the connection: we raise our hands to God, as He reaches down to guide, direct, and/or comfort us because He is our Dad. It confirms that connection that we have with God.
As far as raising holy hands, it is in the Bible in Ps 28:2 and I Tim 2:8. A few weeks ago, I saw something in church that reminded me of our relationship with our Heavenly Father. There was a dad holding his little child's hand to take him to kids' church. That child had to reach up in order to hold onto the hand. That's when I saw the connection: we raise our hands to God, as He reaches down to guide, direct, and/or comfort us because He is our Dad. It confirms that connection that we have with God.
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jewel
Hi Wayfer not, I agree that we all need that personal connection to God. God is so individual He knows us personally and what it would take for us to communicate with Him. All He needs is our willingnes.(surrender, not possession, I knew what you meant) When I think of TWI doctrine of God speaks to our spirit and our spirit speaks to our mind, I think about all the examples in the bible where God spoke to people in many ways. In the O.T. there was the burning bush, the writing on the wall, the still small voice, and many examples. In the book of Acts there was the knock him down and blind him (Paul), dreams (Peter) angels (Philip) visions (Ananias). We were never taught to look for God's voice in anything other than God's spirit speaking to ours, etc. And then ofcourse there was the man of God or top leadership, they could always speak for God to us. We were so limited by the doctrine we were taught. I am so thankful that God is finally out of the box for me. Thanks for your post. Jewel
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dmiller
Wayfer Not! --- I hear that.
:)-->
I don't attend church these days, but once was a time I did and the ones I went to had the praise and worship. At first I was put off by it, but being the good
*guest* that I was -- I didn't mind. After all it was their thing, not mine.
However after I went a couple of times, I remembered the thing docvic talked about (being a *fan*atic), and realized they were doing something he espoused, but never did practice. And then I began to see it in a different light.
You're right -- it opens up an entirely *new* avenue for communication, one that was closed to us back in twi. And even though I don't get into it like others do, it does make an excellent setting for my personal interaction with God and Jesus.
David
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smurfette
I agree wayfer not. The first time i went to a praise and worship service...I spent the entire time singing with tears just streaming down my face. I was shocked by how powerful and healing the experience was..but I was also so frustrated by twit teaching that I didn't fully participate even though I wanted to. It has been a process for me to gradually get more into it...but as I lean on God more and more my peace I have grows deeper and greater.
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Belle
Yeppers! The first few times I visited a real church with real love for God and for JC, I felt more "connected" than I have been since my h.s. connection with them.
TWI made it clinical and dependent upon my hoop jumping which makes no sense to me at all given the fact that my parents do make me jump through hoops for their love and appreciation. They expect nothing from me. How much more would my heavenly father expect from me????
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rascal
Great points you guys....I was STILL hoop jumping even 5 years after leaving twi....doing everything to the letter, because I was so afraid of suffering the promised consequences...
Finally one day, I suffered a blow so grievous...I finally had taken all that I could stand and told God that I gave up, because nothing I had ever been taught about him worked or seemed to be true....I had done EVERYTHING required of me, was operating every single principle faithfully, and none of that protected me from the evil that befell.
It was so wierd...all I can describe it as is finally being at peace....I could almost hear God saying....allRIGHT....now that you don`t think you *know* it all....we can start over....
I hadn`t thought about it as surrendering to him.....but that is EXACTLY what it was...and do you know that the connection that I had been missing seemed restored....that is when the blessings and answered prayers and things started making sense again.
Words are so inadequate to describe the intimacy of that moment.
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ex10
Beautiful post, wayfernot.
My first venture into church, after exiting the way, I heard this hymn, altar call and all. It changed my (Christian) life.
I Surrender All
Crud, the link isn't working. Many apologies.
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WordWolf
The approach advocated by twi had its strengths (it played to
some of my strengths), but it also had its glaring weaknesses
(which played to mine as well as to others.)
It's a cold, intellectual style that fails to touch the heart.
If you do things in ADDITION to that, there are benefits.
However, to do things ONLY twi's way-which is true for ANY
single style- is to adopt their weaknesses as your own.
The more time I spend looking at the implementation in twi, the
more I become convinced that vpw taught a mechanized path is
because it can be observed, and it covers his own deficiencies
in understanding deeper matters of God that are NOT dependent
upon cold intellect.
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dmiller
Here ya go, Ex10.
:)-->
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/i/s/isurrend.htm
David
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ex10
Gee, thanks David.
:)-->
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act2
ex10, I love that song and play (practice) it on my digital piano all the time. It took me a while to get over the 'surrender' part because of waybrain, but I can now play and sing it with all my heart.
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penguin
It's a cold, intellectual style that fails to touch the heart.
Exactly! We learned to cut off all emotions. No wonder we kept trying to prove ourselves-we weren't fufilled. We still needed the emotional attachment to our Father God and to our Lord Jesus Christ.
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rascal
ABSOLUTELY! We learned so much ABOUT God, and yet I never really felt I *knew* him in twi.
It was all formulas and principles...
IF you do A+B+C = spiritual growth and being well pleasing to God.
As I look back on it, it was definatly *works* so that God would be happy/like me.
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moony3424
The church I go to also has awesome praise and worship and it's not all scripted. During some of the services, I work the LDS (laser display system) and you never know what's going to happen next. You just have to trust that God won't let you down (and He doesn't).
As far as raising holy hands, it is in the Bible in Ps 28:2 and I Tim 2:8. A few weeks ago, I saw something in church that reminded me of our relationship with our Heavenly Father. There was a dad holding his little child's hand to take him to kids' church. That child had to reach up in order to hold onto the hand. That's when I saw the connection: we raise our hands to God, as He reaches down to guide, direct, and/or comfort us because He is our Dad. It confirms that connection that we have with God.
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Nottawayfer
That's awesome! Thanks for that analagy!
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