The Lemonade Stand

[def59]

quote:

What I did learn from TWI:

Salvation is by grace, not works. (Cf. the RC doctrine I had dealt with prior.)

The Bible makes sense. :)-->

I can forgive others because God HAS FORGIVEN me.

Jesus was a man, not God. (To me, this makes his sacrifice much more poignant.)

I have the privilege of sharing what I know to help others. -->

What I learned from TWI's mistakes: Teaching someone to be strong doesn't mean teaching them to be hard-hearted.

There's more; but that's what comes to mind immediately.

George

George, since I left twi I embraced the idea that Jesus was fully God and fully man and that made his sacrifice even more poignant. That the God of the universe would choose to live in a body of flesh and live with us and share our limitations is astounding. To see his desire to glorify God and that we would live a holy life so much that he would die on a cross is truly astounding.

[Nottawayfer]

I learned to love myself. I never had that for myself prior because I was not in an environment growing up to understand or know that. My parents weren't horrible, but they were swimming in their own dysfunctional ways and had no business really to bring any children into th world. They never encouraged us to do much. Miraculously (IMHO) my sister and I got out of that dysfunction and are pretty happy individuals despite all we've been through. I do attribute that partly to twi (particularly Walter C's corny class on the renewed mind).

[Nottawayfer]

Oh yeah, and I do understand the Bible better. I know verses and they, like in Laleo's situation, do end up comforting me in a lot of situations.

[Nottawayfer]

I can say this honestly: I learned to show love to people. And I am not meaning in a sexual way. I was afraid to do this prior to being involved in twi because of my upbringing.

I can say this despite a lot of abusive things which happened because there was a handful of good people who really tried to live what they were teaching.

Edited August 20, 2005 by NottaWayfer

[Belle]

Hmmmmm.....I've honestly thought about this and, perhaps I'm a bit different. I was raised in a very loving, very normal family. I was raised in the Baptist church and was extremely involved in the youth group and all the activities that includes.

I learned about God. I memorized scriptures. I learned how to read the Bible. I was raised by a banker so I already knew how to budget and invest my money. Daddy was also a neatnik and very organized. I got his genes, although my house isn't always as neat as his. ;)-->

I was naive, but not ignorant about life in the "real world" and was on the path to a nice career by the time I was introduced to TWI. I was happy to get answers to questions that I'd always had, but now I realize those answers are wrong.

What TWI did for me was stroke my ego by giving me more knowledge than the average minister and foster my self-righteous attitude I was already prone to. It enabled me to be right in every situation and to "love" people by getting in their face.

I honestly don't think I got any benefit from TWI. If I did, it's such a small benefit that I can't think of it. I suppose, if I had to pick something it was meeting you wonderful people here as I'm not in touch with anyone in or out that I met while in TWI.

Again, I was already an adult, a young adult, but an adult when I got involved and I was never in during any warm fuzzy time period. Craig was in full control and cutting people left and right when I got involved. I never even had vee pee's advanced class. But, maybe I'm unique. :)-->

[Oakspear]

quote:

Oakspear: I learned that I can live with just about anyone, after what I had to put up with in Way Homes, WOW families, and such, which has definitely helped me over the past couple of decades. So, thanks.

You probably learned to eat anything, too, after my cooking ; - )

[Nottawayfer]

quote:

since I left twi I embraced the idea that Jesus was fully God and fully man and that made his sacrifice even more poignant. That the God of the universe would choose to live in a body of flesh and live with us and share our limitations is astounding. To see his desire to glorify God and that we would live a holy life so much that he would die on a cross is truly astounding.

Very well put def! Thanks! :D-->

[BikerBabe]

I'm trying to think of anything good I got from TWI. I did learn from them how to harden my heart to anything and anyone, which I have used at times when dealing with someone who has just been thru a painful experience, so I am able to stay calm and listen to them talk it thru, without getting torn up myself in the process. I also am able to sit calmly while someone screams bloody murder at me, calling me every name in the book and not bat an eye, thinking to myself 'what an idiot, you can shut up at any time now'.

All the other memories are very painful and depressing.

[laleo]

quote:

Originally posted by def59:

George, since I left twi I embraced the idea that Jesus was fully God and fully man and that made his sacrifice even more poignant. That the God of the universe would choose to live in a body of flesh and live with us and share our limitations is astounding. To see his desire to glorify God and that we would live a holy life so much that he would die on a cross is truly astounding.

def59: I'm sure this would make for an interesting debate in the Doctrinal section, should you choose to start a thread there.

I have no doubt most of us can come up with lists of ideas and beliefs that have changed post-TWI. What I'm most interested in is hearing what, if anything, you have preserved from the experience (hopefully, after thoughtful evaluation).

[laleo]

Belle: While this probably doesn't speak to your experience, I once knew someone in The Way with a Baptist background whose favorite verse was the one that says that God will never leave us or forsake us. She said that her Baptist upbringing led her to believe that whenever she sinned or even made a mistake, God would literally desert her, and the thought filled her with terror. For her, believing in a God who didn't demand perfection, who didn't punish every offense, was something worth preserving.

Abigail: I think most people in The Way were normal. In fact, they were among the kindest people I've met before or since. Not that there weren't more than a few "control freaks and boundary jumpers" (like Bramble pointed out), but I experienced a lot of kindness, too. I wonder if they also weren't drawn by the kindness, except their purpose was to exploit it (whether they realize it or not).

[def59]

quote:

Originally posted by laleo:

quote:

Originally posted by def59:

George, since I left twi I embraced the idea that Jesus was fully God and fully man and that made his sacrifice even more poignant. That the God of the universe would choose to live in a body of flesh and live with us and share our limitations is astounding. To see his desire to glorify God and that we would live a holy life so much that he would die on a cross is truly astounding.

def59: I'm sure this would make for an interesting debate in the Doctrinal section, should you choose to start a thread there.

I have no doubt most of us can come up with lists of ideas and beliefs that have changed post-TWI. What I'm most interested in is hearing what, if anything, you have preserved from the experience (hopefully, after thoughtful evaluation).

Laleo

As much as you want to control this thread, it will get away from you lickety-split. but good try nonetheless.

[laleo]

quote:

originally posted by George Aar:

Yes, so I am tremendously blessed in that I no longer spend any time trying to keep myself indoctrinated in mythologies. The real world may be harsh at times (and yes, I'm keenly aware of that at the present), but it's where I choose to live, and I wouldn't have it any other way...

Are myths necessarily a bad thing? I mean, even if you don't believe in the facts of the myths -- like whether those things really happened -- have you ever used the message as a street map to find your way through life?

I agree that the world is harsh, but don't you ever look for something to help navigate through it?

[laleo]

quote:

Originally posted by def59:

Laleo

As much as you want to control this thread, it will get away from you lickety-split. but good try nonetheless.

That made me laugh, def. Yeah, I was wondering if GS could tolerate a thread like this.

We'll see.

[Belle]

Laleo:

quote:

She said that her Baptist upbringing led her to believe that whenever she sinned or even made a mistake, God would literally desert her, and the thought filled her with terror. For her, believing in a God who didn't demand perfection, who didn't punish every offense, was something worth preserving.

Wow, Laleo, I never worried about God deserting me or "removing his hedge of protection" or "allowing bad things to happen" until I got into TWI. I always knew I was going to heaven and I always expected God to answer my prayers until I was taught in TWI that if I didn't give minimum 15% of my income or follow all of TWI's rules that God couldn't protect or bless me. That I was "tying his hands".

In fact, I never even thought about God not protecting me or anything bad happening to me until I was taught that there were so many things I had to do to stay where he could protect me. TWI was responsible for putting that fear and concern in my heart, not the Baptists.

[Abigail]

"I think most people in The Way were normal. "

well, I don't have many comparisons to draw on Laleo. I gave up on trying to fit in with what seems to by my idea of "normal" when I left TWI. The price is just to high if it means I have to stop being me. In or out of TWI, in my experience that seems to often to be the case.

"In fact, they were among the kindest people I've met before or since."

There I would agree with you for sure, at least in part. Those I knew my first few years in, most certainly were some of the kindest people I ever knew - and in a sense, I think that makes them abnormal too - lol lol. In my latter years with TWI, I would say the kind ones were few and far between. Those who had the most wonderful hearts got out before I did. I'm thankful I got out intact at all.

[laleo]

quote:

Originally posted by Belle:

TWI was responsible for putting that fear and concern in my heart, not the Baptists.

I don't doubt that and I never said otherwise. Like I said, I wasn't speaking to your experience.

Let me explain the purpose of this thread. It isn't to say that everyone got something good out of TWI, or that everyone has found something worthwhile in their experience. If you haven't, you haven't. I'm not saying you have or you should. (Plus, I'll concede that I was never involved in TWI during the Martindale years, so I can't speak to the level of social control and fear that others endured.) But others have found something good, and I'd like to hear what they kept.

If you don't like the topic, fine. But that's the topic.

Also, just out of curiosity, have you returned to the Baptist church? It sounds like you had a very good experience there.

[WordWolf]

quote:

Originally posted by laleo:

quote:

Originally posted by WordWolf:

I believe I learned some useful Bible stuff.

Whether I learned anything else WITH it, or whether I would have learned it elsewhere, are outside the scope of this thread.

Did you get your attention to detail (close reading skills) from The Way? Or were you already predisposed to it?

One from Column A, one from Column B.

I was predisposed towards it, but I never had a SYSTEMATIC approach,

and exposure to Bullinger's keys from "How to Enjoy the Bible"

(featured in pfal-the class and books, and the bookmark with the

keys) fit my approach and helped me REFINE it.

At the same time, I DO think there are times that a systematic

approach can find excruciating minutiae and turn out to be

completely WRONG, so I try not to worship my techniques, either.

("Must know when to break the rules.")

quote:

By the way, thanks for regaling my daughter with your Harry Potter facts. She thinks you're brilliant.

That's because I didn't give her ALL my musings. I had a list of

suspects for the HBP, and NONE of them were in the ballpark.

In fact, my initial suppositions on figuring him out were wrong.

Also, in all fairness, I do have the benefit of OTHER people's

musings-I'm not claiming that WWP's books are my own. ;)-->

(You can look them up on Mugglenet-the Unofficial Guide, the Plot

Thickens, etc.) My best skill there is filtering between guesses

and educated guesses. Meanwhile, I thought we were discussing

twi...

[George Aar]

quote:

Are myths necessarily a bad thing? I mean, even if you don't believe in the facts of the myths -- like whether those things really happened -- have you ever used the message as a street map to find your way through life?

I guess my initial response would be that, yeah, myths are a bad thing. I mean to believe in them. I never was much disposed to do that till my WayWorld daze.

And using them as a roadmap? How could you possibly trust a map that was made up? I don't get it.

But, then, I wouldn't...

[Belle]

Your thread, Laleo. I respectfully remove myself from the conversation.

[Linda Z]

laleo, interesting thread you've started here, and I appreciate your valiant attempts to keep it on topic. Good luck with that!

The number one thing I gained by my involvement was trust in God. Before PFAL, "God" was a pretty nebulous concept to me, even though I "believed in God," grew up in Sunday school and church, and had been led into SIT by some hippie Christian friends in California. After all that, I was still lost.

My experiences had convinced me God was real, but I just didn't know what to expect from Him, or if I could expect anything remotely consistent from Him. I was sure He was there but didn't know if I could ever have a real, two-way connection with Him.

In twi I learned that I could actually read the Bible and understand some of it, rather than depending on what someone else told me it said.

I learned that it's just as easy to dwell on positive thoughts as to stew in doom and gloom.

I still believe I can do all things (all things I should and need to do) through Christ who strengthens me.

I learned that if God gave His son for me, it behooved me to quit letting people use me as a doormat and quit "lookin' for love in all the wrong places."

I gained lifelong friends. My family, who all took PFAL eventually and got involved in twi fellowships, became much closer, much kinder to one antoher as a result. That benefit continues to this day.

I learned about the importance of giving (and no, I'm not talking about ABSing to twi).

In the Corps, I learned I could push myself a lot farther than I ever thought I could and could do a lot more than I'd ever dreamed--both mentally and physically.

Although I was taught basic etiquette and good manners by my parents, I learned more in twi, to the point where there are few social or business situations I find myself in where I feel at a loss.

Although I don't still believe everything I learned in PFAL or while in twi, ironically, it was there I gained some valuable tools for sorting through it all.

[Linda Z]

Belle, I wish I could build you a "way-back machine" so you'd have more of a context for what some of us older-timers are saying. I can't fully comprehend what it was like for you in twi during the time you were in, because I was gone by then. I had glimpses, though, and the way twi had become by the time you got there was the reason for my leaving.

I was "on the cusp," being on HQ staff when LCM was installed (sheesh, sounds like a plumbing term, doesn't it?) as president and for a couple years afterward. I saw the creeping legalism and the suspicion and the rage and the screaming and spitting, and I wanted no part of it.

This isn't to say it was perfect before. Hardly. One only needs to read these forums to see that. But when I got involved (1972), no one told me what to do. No one condemned me at every turn. No one stuck their noses in my business. If anyone had told me I had to give them my schedule or reveal my finances to them or get their permission to go on vacation, I'd have told them to plant their lips on my behind.

I don't think laleo was being "unwelcoming" toward you. I think she was just clarifying what kind of info she was seeking when she started the thread. I mean, it's not like there aren't any "everything about the way sucked" threads around here. :D--> :)-->

[Nottawayfer]

quote:

I gained lifelong friends. My family, who all took PFAL eventually and got involved in twi fellowships, became much closer, much kinder to one antoher as a result. That benefit continues to this day.

Great example Linda. :D-->

Everybody know there used to be days in twi where you would get love bombed by people. Especially at the ROA. Hugs and kisses were abundant. Some of it inappropriate though. When I first got involved in twi, I felt really uncomfortable by all of this. I thought my first TC was a lesbian because of it...LOL...she wasn't. These days you just don't see that in twi. Remember the days when you would see people reunite at the ROA? It was like they hadn't seen a long lost friends for almost a life-time.

My family became better at being able to show love. Even though my Dad never bought in to it, he took pfal. He didn't like the believers. I understand why. He had always been a man who never showed affection. I'm sure it was out of fear because he never grew up with that either.

We all became less afraid to show it after getting into twi. My Dad hugs my husband and my brother-in-law today. He is a lot more open because the rest of us kept it going. We made it the "norm", and so it allowed my Dad to become comfortable with it also.

[coolchef1248 @adelphia.net]

i learned the proper way to eat a banana if i was ever invited to the white house{you never know it could happen!}

but seriously i met some great and kind loving people,they did out number the low life leader shi*

and i got to meet all of you here -->

[coolchef1248 @adelphia.net]

quote:

Originally posted by coolchef1248 @adelphia.net:

i learned the proper way to eat a banana if i was ever invited to the white house{you never know it could happen!}

but seriously i met some great and kind loving people,they did out number the low life leader shi*

and i got to meet all of you here -->

[WhiteDove]

Hey cool did you post that twice to establish it for us? :D--> LOL