This is the About The Way forum! (For new readers/posters.)

[WordWolf]

This post is meant specifically for the people who just got here.

Hello!

This is the About the Way forum,

of the Greasespot Cafe messageboards,

on the Greasespot Cafe website.

Let me give you a small tour of them, in reverse order.

====

First, the website. The main page is here...

http://www.greasespotcafe.com

The purpose of the website is here...

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main/aboutus.htm

The MAIN MENU of the website had access to many documents.

Some of them are direct quotes from twi leaders.

Some of them are editorials and commentaries on actions taken by twi.

For those of you who are not experts on EVERYTHING about twi,

I recommend taking a few WEEKS and looking over EVERYTHING in the

MAIN MENU and DOCUMENTS sections.

You will certainly be surprised by SOME of the things you will find,

no matter WHO you are.

=====

Now, then, the Discussion Forums.

Their groundrules are here...

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main/forums.htm

After reading them over, just click to enter the Forums.

As you can see, there are many forums.

Some (down below) are Archives of significant discussions.

Some are meant for finding extwi people, asking for prayer, and so on.

Some discussions (like Politics) will be controversial. Some threads, in fact,

some forums, will probably offend you. I recommend not entering those forums.

:D-->

No one will penalize you for being disinterested in a particular forum.

Frankly, if you find yourself involved heavily in ALL the forums,

I recommend turning the computer off for a while and walking around.

The GREASESPOT 101 forum will be of some use for you in "coming up to speed".

It's where posts are placed that are intended for new people to read pretty

early on.

As you can see, not every forum is even vaguely relevant to discussing twi.

Two of them will be of particular interest for those who want to discuss twi

a lot: Doctrinal, and About The Way.

'Doctrinal' is where discussion of teachings, doctrines and answers to the

question "what is God's true position on...?"

For all other discussions on The Way, proceed to About The Way.

In About The Way,

we discuss practices and policy of twi,

both PAST and PRESENT.

We discuss the origin of practices and policy,

and the TRUTH behind things we were told by various leaders.

We also discuss the morality of the actions taken by leaders in twi,

and what the RIGHT thing to do would have been,

and the consequences to the people of the actions they took.

=====

Please note that it WILL surprise you that twi never told you the truth behind

MANY things that happened-like the many lawsuits, and the many times lcm was

caught committing adultery.

It WILL surprise you to see the degree of plagiarism used by vpw-

who took nearly everything he ever taught from other people,

then went on to claim-in writing-that it was all from God and him and no one

else working on it. vpw occasionally mentioned slight assistance

by a few other Christians in a few things, but the truth of the matter is

that he copied entire works of those people whom he characterized as being

slightly useful. vpw claimed to have a connection to God UNIQUE to Christians

since the First Century AD, and taught that twi thus had truths UNKNOWN since

that time. Those were all deliberate lies, and the full details are all over

this forum.

You will PROBABLY be hurt, shocked, and offended at many things that happened

in twi history. You will probably be hurt, shocked and offended at many things

done BY Victor Paul Wierwille, L.Craig Martindale, and many others.

Your first impulse might be to call all the people who speak against twi as

"liars".

Please keep reading before CONCLUDING this is the case.

Do you think ONE person's account of being raped is false?

Keep reading-MANY women have come forth. Many spoke out at the time of the

rapes, and twi was able to make them disappear. With the invention of the internet,

this is now IMPOSSIBLE.

Do you think ONE person's claim of plagiarism is false?

Keep reading-MANY books have been shown, line by line, to have been lifted entirely

from other writers.

Do you think ONE person's claim of leadership ruining lives is false?

Keep reading-MANY people's lives were ruined, and many people have spoken out.

Many of you have had specific wrongs done you by people in twi. You probably said that

you were the only such victim. Keep reading. Chances are, there were MANY people who

were victims of the same wrong-and they've already posted on this.

Know someone who was drugged and raped? Know someone who was molested as a child?

Know someone who was beaten 1/2 to unconsciousnes by 'children's fellowship'?

You're not alone, and we've discussed all of them.

===

Please understand that if you are prepared to call hundreds of people LIARS, and to

claim that ALL evidence that twi was an evil, ungodly organization which attracted

many loving, Godly Christians,

that you are in the MINORITY here.

Most here have formed their opinions based on the INFORMATION they've found from

MANY sources (this site and others). Some posters are no longer Christians.

Many are Christians who don't accept some, many, or most of the things twi taught

as "The Truth". The non-Christians have different opinions, and some of them hold

nothing against Christians. The various Christians have different opinions,

and some of them are comfortable with brothers in Christ with whom they disagree

doctrinally.

There is no one single opinion of the posters.

There is no universally accepted opinion of the posters.

(There are even a few people who are convinced vpw never wronged anyone.)

Please try not to be accusatory, vicious or otherwise rude in posting.

Enjoy your stay.

Oh-

Please note:

twi has people who read EVERY post here (including this post.)

If you sign up as a member, and are still IN twi or know ANYONE still in twi,

it is a good idea to leave all personally identifiable information out of your

profile AND your posts. They try to assemble clues to the identities of posters in

an attempt to control the flow of information from twi.

NEVER POST ANYTHING YOU DO NOT WANT TWI TO LEARN.

=================================================

Regardless of how much you and I will personally disagree on many subjects,

I hope that all of you will look things over and make informed decisions,

and sensible ones,

even if they're not decisions I would have made.

Finally,

if you find that you are disinterested in the discussions here, leave!

There's no law saying you have to read anything here, let alone post.

Go find a messageboard and website you LIKE-

there's millions of them out there!

The "links" list has several you might like BETTER than this one, even.

[Sunny1]

Hello WordWolf.

Just by reading what you have written here, I realize that I have not dealt yet with my experience in The Way.

The way I know that is because I still have an emotional attachment to my captor. But reading what you have written here is jarring my brain and that is the most important part of getting it all straight -- not my heart. I suppose it's all connected.

I've been out for 5 years -- not that long really. I was in for 14. It's kind of scary to realize that I've not dealt yet because to me that means I'm going to start dealing with it. . . .

[Belle]

Excellent, WordWolf! Thank you!

[Allan]

Maybe if you delete 'try not to be accussatory, viscious or rude in your postings' your statement might be a bit more honest.

Oh and how about adding 'if you disagree with some of us or happen to mention you still believe some of the stuff taught in twi you will be ridiculed, flamed etcc..

That would be more honest Wordwolf.

I know 'Waydale' and the earlier version of 'greasespot' helped a lot of 'innies' to leave but I wonder if the current 'mood' of this forum would actually help people decide to stay !!

You know..might as well stay in der Vey and be criticized, ridiculed, picked on etc.. and then at least they wouldn't have to listen to paganistic,atheistic diatribe.

[Goey]

Posted by Alan:

quote:

Maybe if you delete 'try not to be accussatory, viscious or rude in your postings' your statement might be a bit more honest.

Care to explain?

Pointing out a logical flaw, or showing something to be false that was presented as at fact is not being viscious or accusatory. It is a part of the debate process. However, certain folks will almost always cry fowl when their ideas are challenged.

quote:

Oh and how about adding 'if you disagree with some of us or happen to mention you still believe some of the stuff taught in twi you will be ridiculed, flamed etcc..

That would be more honest Wordwolf.

Actually it would be quite dishonest for the most part. Many of us here still believe "some of the stuff taught in TWI", yet we are not flamed or ridiculed for the most part. Disagreement here can, (but does not always) lead to "ridicule and flaming". Some folks know how to disagree politly, others admittedy need to grow up a bit here. However, there always seems to be that small element here, that accuses other of flaming and ridicule when they are simply being challened on their ideas. Can't help that.

It seems that where the so-called ridicule and flaming comes in, is when some folks assess TWI by their own particular experience and deny the experiences of others as if they never happened.

It happens when folks deny, gloss-over, or minimize the clearly documented offenses of TWI and its leaders, just because they think they were "blessed" by those same leaders.

It happens when folks deny the hard facts of the abuses that happened to many and then call the fact-bearers liars -- or even worse, blame the victims for the evil done to them at the hands of their heros. This will almost certainly bring on the "ridicule and flaming".

[Belle]

sometimes, too, the way things are worded - regardless of position - will generate so called flaming or perhaps less than cordial comments. It's easier to get people to listen to your position or to seriously consider one's position when spoken politely and from an informed, unemotional position than as an attack or as if one is looking for a fight or "daring" someone to disagree.

[jewel]

Hello again WordWolf. I posted on another threat today in answer to some things you had said to me. I just read your suggestions for new posters and thank you for all the great information and the path to find out more. I guess what I don't understand is why TWI would even care what is said here. They haven't any power over those of us who have left and know in their hearts it was the right thing to do. What can they do to me or anyone else now that we are gone? This is an honest question because I just don't understand. I believe many things you have stated about TWI and the debauchery it was and probably still is. But why would they care about those of us on this forum who have left and most of us left with a bad taste in our mouth. I would think they would just write us off to the devil (according to their doctrine) Should I go back and read the links you suggested? Jewel , a new poster

[Sunny1]

Hello, WordWolf.

It sounds like a lot of people don't know just how evil The Way is.

[Allan]

I think they do know how much evil was/is associated with twi,they might not be aware of just how much evil is just outside of twi as well, better to give them a balanced view I say.

[WordWolf]

quote:

Originally posted by Sunny1:

Hello, WordWolf.

It sounds like a lot of people don't know just how evil The Way is.

True.

To a degree, it's perfectly understandable.

Some of it just sounds ridiculous when you say it out loud-

until you look at dozens and dozens of eyewitness accounts.

vpw did such a complete job of controlling information (before the

internet) that it was almost impossible to think of him as anything

OTHER than "the next man of God to rise up after Paul's death"

("the Way:Living in Love", page 43.)

wierwille hid all his sources, then lied and said he had a special

connection from God and that's where he got such fantastic material.

He put forth that it was the result of "research and teaching for

30 years" ("the Way:Living in Love, page-34) rather than a handful of

ORIGINAL writers whose work he cobbled together. The purpose of doing

THAT was to inflate himself and elevate himself to that position.

His GOAL was for everyone to think he was far above all other

Christians, and only HIS group had "The Truth".

That way, when it came to evil things,

A) It was hard to believe such a "godly" man could sin so greatly

(Well, it was based on the false impression that he was a

"godly man" based on the knowledge he supposedly originated.)

B) he was able to use a veneer of godliness to confuse people and get

some to think that God was all right with him sinning

At first, it sounds ridiculous to hear of incidents of exhibitionism

by him, acts of rape, drugging THEN raping women, rationalizing

adultery in his own life, and so on. It's only after account after

account pile up that the weight of the evidence becomes inexorable.

It's not as ridiculous to examine his chain-smoking, his chronic

alcoholism, and his love of luxuries both at hq and when travelling,

and see that they DON'T paint a picture of a humble servant of God.

It's even sicker to realize that he's not even original, and other

conmen have abused the office of Leader among Christians to cover

despicable acts. lcm didn't come out of nowhere and just started

raping women-he was indoctrinated and trained by vpw, who chose him

as his successor for the sole reason of his LOYALTY to vpw

(which explains why he lacks any leadership ability). lcm was not

WORSE than vpw-he was just worse at covering his tracks.

========

Jewel?

Those are good questions, and there are a few answers.

The "WayGB" are concerned with what we say here for many reasons.

First of all, people who are still in sometimes post, and the WayGB

is fixated on uncovering their identities. Second, they resent that

they are unable to control information that is posted here. Sometimes,

things happen that they want hidden away, but that information gets

posted here for the whole world to see.

Posts here and other websites were the main reason twi had to make

lcm VANISH, and not simply keep him as "Head of the Research Dept"

after he was found guilty of crimes.

Posts here and other websites have fueled lawsuits.

Posts here and other websites broke the news when twi decided to

stick Mrs Wierwille in a nursing home, and ignore all committments

they had to her. That one was SUCH a public relations nightmare that

they insisted-after years of telling people to stay away from the

GSC- that their side of that story be posted here as well.

This was, in essence, an admission that their own members get MORE

news HERE than thru twi official news channels.

twi would LOVE to see us all silenced tomorrow.

When people nowadays want information, they go online.

When they hear of twi, they look and find US.

The information here helps them stay wary or clear, which denies

twi the chance to sneak up and trick them. This helps maintain

"negative growth" in twi, which has been the status quo since at least

1989.

As to them knowing what is right in their hearts, I doubt they do.

Remember, your heart contains what you place in it.

They've been feeding their hearts on a steady diet of twi propaganda

and never trying any other "food". So, their consciences are

severely malnourished.

Yes, I would recommend reading all the links.

I would also recommend reading ALL the documents and editorials

on this site, even if it takes a YEAR. It's worth having all the

information.

[WordWolf]

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:

I think they do know how much evil was/is associated with twi...

They've only scratched the surface.

I'm sure it's news to you that all entrants to the way corps

were required to write an autobiography called

"From Birth to the Corps."

Actually, THAT part is common knowledge.

What was NOT common knowledge was the 2 uses to which they were

put.

A) vpw marked those women with histories of surviving abuse-

since abuse survivors make easier victims for future predators-

and THOSE women were targeted for molestation, rape, etc

by him

B) when people left twi, those "confidential" papers were

dug out, and used as "proof" the person had "backslidden

into old sins" rather than escaping because twi was evil.

Most people have NO IDEA twi has done these things, at the

directive of vpw and others.

[Ham]

quote:

I think they do know how much evil was/is associated with twi,they might not be aware of just how much evil is just outside of twi as well, better to give them a balanced view I say.

Yep. Sounds like the Curse of loy.. "Won't take my word for it? Just GO out there, just go and look. There is NOTHING godly or worthwhile, and things out there are just so darn EVIL... the WHOLE WORLD STINKS. Go ahead and GO. But don't say I didn't warn you about all the devils, beasts, and wild animals that await you.. "

That little tirade made MOST people afraid to go and even look..

I can outline evil for you fellow.

Almost ten years out of this stinking, opressive outfit, and the effects are just now starting to wear off.

[Belle]

p.s. This is not a Christian forum. All are allowed, encouraged and appreciated for sharing their opinion or point of view. Expect to have those opinions and points of view challenged, questioned and/or discussed. However, sometimes we have to agree to disagree. :)-->

[Ham]

I don't think that's too far off the beaten track..

May be helpful for those who "just got here".

Really. You're not gonna be a greasespot by midnight or anything..

All those tirades mean NOTHING.

Like voodoo, the only way they can effect you is if you believe them.

Sure, the world isn't paradise on earth or anything, but even the "devils" are friendlier than the leadership I left behind in TWI.

Case in point:

quote:

You know..might as well stay in der Vey and be criticized, ridiculed, picked on etc.. and then at least they wouldn't have to listen to paganistic,atheistic diatribe.

Same argument. "Stay, and put up with our junk for getting a few blessings, or just go out with 'them'"

Personally, I'd listen to paganistic, atheistic diatribe over that junk any day of the week..

its gotta be bad when the "unbelievers" make more sense.

[rascal]

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Hammeroni

Personally, I'd listen to paganistic, atheistic diatribe over that junk any day of the week..

its gotta be bad when the "unbelievers" make more sense.

ROFLMAO!

I am telling you that very few of the churches and religious organizations that we were taught to abhor....will hurt you like twi.

I personally do not think that the greatness of the word they teach amounts to much .... when evil flourishes so rampantly in that group.

Give me honest fellowship with my ignorant (according to twi) any day :-)

[jewel]

Thanks WordWolf for your answer. I did not realize that there would be people still in TWI that would come and read the posts here. I would think they may think the devil would just jump right out of the computer and get them. So why do they stay in TWI? I can only think TWI attracts people who want to be better than anyone else. (maybe like the "Church Lady" on Saturday Night Live) To tell you the truth I had to come to grips with that myself, after I left. I liked knowing "the truth" more than anyone else. It is a big ego trip to think you have the cornerstone on the truth. I do know some people stay because of fear and that is so sad. So GS is living proof to those still in that there is life after TWI. God help those still in. Jewel

[rascal]

quote:

Originally posted by jewel:

So GS is living proof to those still in that there is life after TWI. God help those still in. Jewel

Amen Jewel, We ARE proof that life is good outside of the walls of twi:-)

[Allan]

Agree to all of that as long as readers have an idea what kind of people are posting..

Maybe we could start off our posts like.."Hi, my name is Allan, I'm a Christian" or "Hi, my name is Rascal and I'm a Pagan" or "Hi, my name is Bramble and I'm a Wicca (witch), or "Hi, my name is Cool Waters and I'm a New-Ager" just thinking, it might help ??

[Belle]

Help in what way? So that people can be pre-judged and have the GSpot version of a nametag? So that people can be pigeon-holed into a single classification and be automatically discredited on whatever they say regardless of the topic just because of a classification?

GSPOT IS NOT A CHRISTIAN FORUM! Someone's path after TWI is in no way relevant to their comments on their experience in TWI. It also in no way discredits them and, in many cases, is totally irrelevant to the conversation.

How else do you want us to label ourselves? Want us to tell our sexual orientation? Our race? Our heritage? Our education level? Our occupation? Our shoe size?

I would like to think we're no longer as small-minded as we were while in TWI. I would also like to think it's enlightening and a good exercise to listen to and allow others' points of view, experiences, beliefs and thoughts.

[Nottawayfer]

As someone who was enlightened by GSC, I can say that a lot of things I found out helped me to exit twi.

I started posting as an innie in October 2002. Ironically I started posting after chastising my innie boyfriend (ex BF now) at the time for even reading GSC. He came to my house for lunch one day telling me all kinds of things he read and how F'd up twi is. This was based on things he read in GSC.

It must have stirred my curiousity because I had only read GSC a little after I left HQ. I never dared to read it while on Staff because someone would have caught me since the only internet available was at the local libraries. At that time, I thought posters were a bunch of disgruntled people who would say anything. Because of the ex-boyfriend, I started to read GSC once again. Then more things happened in my life because of twi which started to make me question my involvement. The control they were trying to take over my personal life was a HUGE issue for me. I started searching back in my mind the past 20 years of my involvement with twi to determine if it had been as rosy as I had been led to believe. NO! It wasn't!!!

I made a decision that the ACS 2002 would be my decision-making moment with my future of twi. That trip was a huge waste of money! It was re-hashed crap which had already been taught and then presented to advanced class grads. Any newbie could have been there. It showed me twi was not growing. Making a decision to leave was an emotional time for me. I tried to talk myself out of leaving. I got into many discussions with GSers about it. I even got mad and told GSers they dwelling in their sorrow and that I was done posting. But then reality set in for me. I was STILL involved in a group trying to take over my life! I continued to read GSC even though I didn't post.

Someone posted that they had information for me. I emailed them, and the rest is history. The email helped me to make my decision. It helped me to realize that I was unhappy and living a lie. No abundance, no real happiness, no harmony, nothing they promised on the green card. Sure, I could have been just as unhappy in any church, but I was in a group who deemed themselves THE ONLY ONE WITH THE TRUTH! How does that truth fit in with all of the practical errors over the years? This was a huge turning point for me.

Thanks to GSC I left the first week of December 2002! GSC is not a perfect place either, but it does help people to see the reality of a terrible organization which calls itself godly.

[Goey]

quote:

Agree to all of that as long as readers have an idea what kind of people are posting..

Maybe we could start off our posts like.."Hi, my name is Allan, I'm a Christian" or "Hi, my name is Rascal and I'm a Pagan" or "Hi, my name is Bramble and I'm a Wicca (witch), or "Hi, my name is Cool Waters and I'm a New-Ager" just thinking, it might help ??

Alan, that was truly uncalled for. You don't act very "Christian" to me. From one Christian to another, I would much rather hang out with the so called pagans, witches and new agers than with you.

[BikerBabe]

Hi, my nick is BikerBabe, I'm a brat.

[jewel]

Hey BikerBabe, We are all brats, that's why we need a Saviour. Jewel

[Bramble]

quote:

Agree to all of that as long as readers have an idea what kind of people are posting..

Maybe we could start off our posts like.."Hi, my name is Allan, I'm a Christian" or "Hi, my name is Rascal and I'm a Pagan" or "Hi, my name is Bramble and I'm a Wicca (witch), or "Hi, my name is Cool Waters and I'm a New-Ager" just thinking, it might help ??

Allan, this is not a Christian forum, it is an ex Way forum. Not all ex Way are Christian, but they can still speak about thier experiences in TWI. If Pawtucket wants the non Christians to leave, he can say so. It is his forum.

If you click on names you can read profiles--that may tell you about the person.

Rascal, as far as I know, is Christian, but with you around, you just might steer her my way. The anti witness--turning people off from your faith..

If being on a message board with non Christians is so horrifying, maybe you could join one of the all Christian ex Way forums, or start your own.

Someone not Christian is not automatically eeeviiilll. Just as someone who is Christian is not automatically good.

Since I've never been involved in, say, the prison system, or with drug dealers or violent gang members, my closest brush with evil folk has been some experiences I've had with Way Leaders.

Edited for clarity, my bad.

Edited August 21, 2005 by Bramble

[Allan]

I don't think I've ever said non-Christians are evil but I might tend to think that someone who believes they are an 'anti-witness' has some serious 'spiritual issues' ?!