Allen you and MJ are either obtuse or you are functionally illiterate.
Either way I am through explaining to you
Seven years of my life fighting TWI and the state of Alaska literally for my children and my very lives, was/is enough. I'm not reliving any more of it here for your enlightenment
you want enlightenment can reread all the posts on this issue not just from me but from others--stretching back over at least 5 years and figure it out for yourselves
Allan, and mj, this behavior is a prime example of what was nastiest and most vile in twi.
Just stop for a miniute and LOOK at what you are defending Allan....
TWI without conscience moved a known pedophile into an area with unsuspecting people and placed him in a position of authority over those innocent ones.
TWI protected and covered for the pedophiles AFTER mo tried to get them turned in.
TWI visciously attacked and attempted to destroy cw and HER family when she tried to report the activities....
Children molested, Mothers discredited, twig co and childrens fellowship co allowed to continue predations.
This isn`t the only example of this EXACT behavior that has come to surface this year...read about the treatment that Mark N`s spouse/ex that tried to notify twi of her suspicions :-(
These three were BOTH convicted in a court of law of what is being discussed....and yet you coldly attack the person who`s life has been utterly and completely desecrated during her contact with twi......
You know, attack me all you like, but I wish the he11 you would leave mo alone...She has had enough blows delt, without having to deal with the two of you cruely trying to recriminate hr for what twi, and her tc did.
Mj, your behavior doesn`t suprise me a damned bit, you have slammed the victims of twi`s predation at every turn....you did it on the sexual abuse threads, the abortion threads, and the child abuse threads....and though I don`t understand your visciousness, or need to assault the person wronged, this behavior on your part is nothing new.
Allan, though you have been given every courtesy and the benefit of the doubt.....your behavior is cruel and insensitive...Kindness and understanding are certainly not in evidence in what you share here....
I have to say that association with twi has not seemed to have helped you develop into a decent Christian... all of the scriptures learned, and all of the sit, all of the biblical principles, and yet look at what you manifest....
You have slapped the lable christian on yourself , and yet your behavior here has been vile ....I see nothing Christ like in you, nor any example of God and his love.
This would lead me to believe that twi was not a spiritually healthy environment even for those might THINK that they escaped unscathed with their fruit.
Your behavior is a disgrace to the faith you profess.
Losing them because of those in a dangerous cult only worsens this.
Coming here to get an understanding of what has transpired and getting flak and abuse instead of the understanding that you desire and the prayers that you need--That I find reprehensible.
Even now, I am a soldier currently fighting against terrorism in Iraq. As I keep my head down from the flak over head I will pray for you and yours to the only God that I know.
Abusive people prey on those who they believe are weak and/or vulnerable.
Mo, you shared your heart regarding a very vulnerable topic - doesn't get more vulnerable that that, really.
What you may not realize is this is MJ's thing. Those of us who've read her posts for a while have seen the pattern. There is no point in defending or explaining yourself to an abusive person - it just fans the flames.
No need to explain to the rest of us either. Most of us get it. And most of us have seen enough of MJ's post to recognize what a twisted person she is.
Yes, Rascal, I'm in Iraq. Thanks for your support. Thanks for your prayers. I've prayed for you as well. I still pray for you and some other here. It's just that Mo has suddenly moved to the top of my list.
Allan you don`t care, that is patently obvious...that you are so callous is damning evidence that twi failed to teach you correctly.
What you escaped with....is putrid fruit, detrimental to your health and that of others....lending further support to the idea that twi deserves no praises or thankfullness as a christian or Godly ministry.
People seem to come away thinking that because of their scriptural knowledge and operation of biblical principles, that they are rightious and can safely ignore the most basic and important of commandments.
Seems a couple of folks think that this is just a "walk in the park" for people..
Ah, the guarantees in life..
"Well, it worked for ME"
Don't tell me that the Almighty somehow "blessed" you- you were damned LUCKY. Yep, I can use that word now..
Take your illusion of light and goodness into a situation where your only choice is very very bad, or much much worse. Let's see what it does to YOU. But no, you were never in that position.
Seems government involvement in something like this is very, very slow. But once they are involved, you may not exactly get the results you desire, or deserve, for that matter.
Even with them at their BEST, dealing with courts, judges, lawyers, social workers, you name it- can hardly be described as a pleasurable experience.
I'm speechless. I'm so glad that I have been able to overcome the hard-heartedness, judgementalism and egotism that TWI taught and promoted.
This is why I ignore certain posters and have added yet another to my list. :)--> I shan't feed the monsters and, MO and CW, God bless your hearts!! Thank you for sharing your hearts and experiences with us despite the insensitive attacks. You are also at the top of my prayer list.
Brother Speed, thank you for your service to our country! Thank you, also, for your input here in our little corner of cyberspace. :)-->
It could have very easily been your kids or mine...your family or mine....
Allan didn`t escape harm because Allan was stronger or more spiritual, or that God liked him better or that he was somehow more worthey or special.....
Contrary to his opinion, I think that Allan has sustained more damage than he realises.
THINK about what you are saying....Mo and cw entered the ministry for the same reasons we did....to know God....
If you are saying that God led you there and blessed you.....then you are also saying that God is responsible for what happened to mo at the hands of the same people.
If God was responsible for leading you to twi for blessings ....then WHO the hell was responsible for leading mo and others who lost everything?
GOD???
That is a heck of a charge to lay at HIS feet.
Come here oldies, I have blessings for you...you come along as well mo...Oh wait, sorry, no blessings for you.....just viscious abuse, betrayal, and loss....
Geeeee thanks God! I am glad that you were at least nice to oldies and allan.
OM stop playing dense. You know da*ned well that rascal was NOT saying that SHE thinks god had anything to do with bring people into twi.
-->
The way you and others are acting on this thread reminds me of something my mother used to say: "Some people would argue with a buzz saw and cut of their noses to spite their faces."
Well...thinking again...I think you and others would rather cut off everybody else's noses...
***********************
BTW...
Rich is on Alaska's most wanted sex offender list now...
I wonder if he could be found having tea and scones at a few of these folks homes...? I mean, he'd be welcome, I'm sure...just to spite Mo or me or others whose children were victimized by him...
Because you minimize the impact God has had on people's lives while simultaneously augmenting the evil that some men have perpetrated, to the point that the goodness and blessings that came from God doesn't matter, only the evil counts for anything.
Now anytime he encounters something that would threaten his dichotomic
worldview, it might as well be written in Japanese or Chinese.
Ever try to read a website written in a language you don't know-
like Chinese or Japanese? It's the same thing.
quote:
You know da*ned well that rascal was NOT saying that SHE thinks god had anything to do with bring people into twi.
-->
The way you and others are acting on this thread reminds me of something my mother used to say: "Some people would argue with a buzz saw and cut of their noses to spite their faces."
Well...thinking again...I think you and others would rather cut off everybody else's noses...
So Oldies you and allan are saying that God called you to be blessed by him in twi, and ALSO that God called Mo and her children and so many others to be destroyed by some of the evil MEN in twi?
I am asking....why do you think God led Mo into twi, KNOWING what she and her children would face at the hands of SOME mens evil??
... and ALSO that God called Mo and her children and so many others to be destroyed...
I do not believe God called Mo and her children and so many others to be destroyed, inside twi or out.
Now you're asking why God allows evil and I said before that I believe it was best explained in PFAL.
It was answered to my satisfaction in PFAL.
God is the author of blessings and goodness. All good blessings and gifts come from Him.
However, we are living in this world, the god of this world is Satan, and we also are prone to getting hit by him in this world, yes, even from people who are saved, even from Christians who have done the truth and do the truth and God's will are prone to committing evil and sins and bad stuff.
God doesn't control man's freedom of will, and man is free to sin in this day and time.
God doesn't have much to do with that except try to dissuade it; sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
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templelady
No MORE--
Allen you and MJ are either obtuse or you are functionally illiterate.
Either way I am through explaining to you
Seven years of my life fighting TWI and the state of Alaska literally for my children and my very lives, was/is enough. I'm not reliving any more of it here for your enlightenment
you want enlightenment can reread all the posts on this issue not just from me but from others--stretching back over at least 5 years and figure it out for yourselves
Edited by templeladyLink to comment
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rascal
Allan, and mj, this behavior is a prime example of what was nastiest and most vile in twi.
Just stop for a miniute and LOOK at what you are defending Allan....
TWI without conscience moved a known pedophile into an area with unsuspecting people and placed him in a position of authority over those innocent ones.
TWI protected and covered for the pedophiles AFTER mo tried to get them turned in.
TWI visciously attacked and attempted to destroy cw and HER family when she tried to report the activities....
Children molested, Mothers discredited, twig co and childrens fellowship co allowed to continue predations.
This isn`t the only example of this EXACT behavior that has come to surface this year...read about the treatment that Mark N`s spouse/ex that tried to notify twi of her suspicions :-(
These three were BOTH convicted in a court of law of what is being discussed....and yet you coldly attack the person who`s life has been utterly and completely desecrated during her contact with twi......
You know, attack me all you like, but I wish the he11 you would leave mo alone...She has had enough blows delt, without having to deal with the two of you cruely trying to recriminate hr for what twi, and her tc did.
Mj, your behavior doesn`t suprise me a damned bit, you have slammed the victims of twi`s predation at every turn....you did it on the sexual abuse threads, the abortion threads, and the child abuse threads....and though I don`t understand your visciousness, or need to assault the person wronged, this behavior on your part is nothing new.
Allan, though you have been given every courtesy and the benefit of the doubt.....your behavior is cruel and insensitive...Kindness and understanding are certainly not in evidence in what you share here....
I have to say that association with twi has not seemed to have helped you develop into a decent Christian... all of the scriptures learned, and all of the sit, all of the biblical principles, and yet look at what you manifest....
You have slapped the lable christian on yourself , and yet your behavior here has been vile ....I see nothing Christ like in you, nor any example of God and his love.
This would lead me to believe that twi was not a spiritually healthy environment even for those might THINK that they escaped unscathed with their fruit.
Your behavior is a disgrace to the faith you profess.
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Brother Speed
Mo,
Losing your children is a most terrible thing.
Losing them because of those in a dangerous cult only worsens this.
Coming here to get an understanding of what has transpired and getting flak and abuse instead of the understanding that you desire and the prayers that you need--That I find reprehensible.
Even now, I am a soldier currently fighting against terrorism in Iraq. As I keep my head down from the flak over head I will pray for you and yours to the only God that I know.
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Abigail
Abusive people prey on those who they believe are weak and/or vulnerable.
Mo, you shared your heart regarding a very vulnerable topic - doesn't get more vulnerable that that, really.
What you may not realize is this is MJ's thing. Those of us who've read her posts for a while have seen the pattern. There is no point in defending or explaining yourself to an abusive person - it just fans the flames.
No need to explain to the rest of us either. Most of us get it. And most of us have seen enough of MJ's post to recognize what a twisted person she is.
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rascal
Brother speed,you are in Iraq?
May I say thank you for what you are doing? You will be in my prayers.
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Brother Speed
Yes, Rascal, I'm in Iraq. Thanks for your support. Thanks for your prayers. I've prayed for you as well. I still pray for you and some other here. It's just that Mo has suddenly moved to the top of my list.
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Allan
so do you feel better now Rascal..
What you just said about me was the most right on spiritual posting I have seen you do.
My only question is are you so accurately describing me..or that little 'rascal' inside of you..
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WordWolf
Allan's reply illustrates what was said on page 9 about him.
People post specifics and how people destroyed their lives when they tried to prevent
evil from being done,
and all he hears is "bwah-bwah-BWAH-bwah" like in those Charlie Brown cartoons.
You could hand him court documents asserting the evildoing of people in twi,
individually and as a consortium,
and he'd STILL defend them,
and the next time we discussed it, he'd ask the SAME questions answered in the
documents he already read.
Frankly reminds me of some lyrics I heard once:
From Don Henley's "If Dirt Were Dollars", for those interested.
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rascal
Allan you don`t care, that is patently obvious...that you are so callous is damning evidence that twi failed to teach you correctly.
What you escaped with....is putrid fruit, detrimental to your health and that of others....lending further support to the idea that twi deserves no praises or thankfullness as a christian or Godly ministry.
People seem to come away thinking that because of their scriptural knowledge and operation of biblical principles, that they are rightious and can safely ignore the most basic and important of commandments.
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rascal
Gosh, with all that you have on your plate Brother speed, I am gratefull.
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Ham
Seems a couple of folks think that this is just a "walk in the park" for people..
Ah, the guarantees in life..
"Well, it worked for ME"
Don't tell me that the Almighty somehow "blessed" you- you were damned LUCKY. Yep, I can use that word now..
Take your illusion of light and goodness into a situation where your only choice is very very bad, or much much worse. Let's see what it does to YOU. But no, you were never in that position.
Seems government involvement in something like this is very, very slow. But once they are involved, you may not exactly get the results you desire, or deserve, for that matter.
Even with them at their BEST, dealing with courts, judges, lawyers, social workers, you name it- can hardly be described as a pleasurable experience.
You have no clue.
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Belle
I'm speechless. I'm so glad that I have been able to overcome the hard-heartedness, judgementalism and egotism that TWI taught and promoted.
This is why I ignore certain posters and have added yet another to my list.
:)--> I shan't feed the monsters and, MO and CW, God bless your hearts!! Thank you for sharing your hearts and experiences with us despite the insensitive attacks. You are also at the top of my prayer list.
Brother Speed, thank you for your service to our country! Thank you, also, for your input here in our little corner of cyberspace.
:)-->
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rascal
Damned Lucky is right Mr. Hamm...
It could have very easily been your kids or mine...your family or mine....
Allan didn`t escape harm because Allan was stronger or more spiritual, or that God liked him better or that he was somehow more worthey or special.....
Contrary to his opinion, I think that Allan has sustained more damage than he realises.
THINK about what you are saying....Mo and cw entered the ministry for the same reasons we did....to know God....
If you are saying that God led you there and blessed you.....then you are also saying that God is responsible for what happened to mo at the hands of the same people.
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CoolWaters
Good point!
And here's a question...
Did either Allan or mj have children while in twi?
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oldiesman
God gave man freedom of will and man sins, does evil, make mistakes, gets possessed, whatever you call it.
Satan is the god of this world, has authority to work in the here and now.
God is light, and in Him is no darkness at all.
Better to blame man (which you do all the time anyway, those whos sins you magnify) or the Devil, but not God.
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rascal
My point is perfectly valid Oldies.
If God was responsible for leading you to twi for blessings ....then WHO the hell was responsible for leading mo and others who lost everything?
GOD???
That is a heck of a charge to lay at HIS feet.
Come here oldies, I have blessings for you...you come along as well mo...Oh wait, sorry, no blessings for you.....just viscious abuse, betrayal, and loss....
Geeeee thanks God! I am glad that you were at least nice to oldies and allan.
I just don`t think that he was responsible.
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CoolWaters
OM stop playing dense. You know da*ned well that rascal was NOT saying that SHE thinks god had anything to do with bring people into twi.
The way you and others are acting on this thread reminds me of something my mother used to say: "Some people would argue with a buzz saw and cut of their noses to spite their faces."
Well...thinking again...I think you and others would rather cut off everybody else's noses...
***********************
BTW...
Rich is on Alaska's most wanted sex offender list now...
I wonder if he could be found having tea and scones at a few of these folks homes...? I mean, he'd be welcome, I'm sure...just to spite Mo or me or others whose children were victimized by him...
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oldiesman
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Brother Speed
(((((Rascal)))))
(((((Belle)))))
Thank you both
ps Belle - You are on my prayer list as well.
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CM
Hi Oldiesman,
tell us, what was that impact?
did we get to know God?
did you?
what exactly did happen?
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WordWolf
He's not playing-he IS that dense.
It was a goal, he worked hard to reach it.
It was a dream-he made it happen.
Now anytime he encounters something that would threaten his dichotomic
worldview, it might as well be written in Japanese or Chinese.
Ever try to read a website written in a language you don't know-
like Chinese or Japanese? It's the same thing.
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rascal
So Oldies you and allan are saying that God called you to be blessed by him in twi, and ALSO that God called Mo and her children and so many others to be destroyed by some of the evil MEN in twi?
I am asking....why do you think God led Mo into twi, KNOWING what she and her children would face at the hands of SOME mens evil??
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oldiesman
Now you're asking why God allows evil and I said before that I believe it was best explained in PFAL.
It was answered to my satisfaction in PFAL.
God is the author of blessings and goodness. All good blessings and gifts come from Him.
However, we are living in this world, the god of this world is Satan, and we also are prone to getting hit by him in this world, yes, even from people who are saved, even from Christians who have done the truth and do the truth and God's will are prone to committing evil and sins and bad stuff.
God doesn't control man's freedom of will, and man is free to sin in this day and time.
God doesn't have much to do with that except try to dissuade it; sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
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oldiesman
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