but i KNOW God will protect his "little ones" if their parents are willing to stand with HIM on doing what is right. and as Allen stated a simple willingness to say NO is all it takes...
So I guess you're saying that God abandoned his "little ones" in this case, since templelady didn't "do what was right".
quote:
I do not believe it was a "circle of conspriacy to protect a twi person
Naw...THAT never happens!
Law enforcement and the courts would not have had to be in on it. In a dispute over an innie and an outie spouse, who do you think the TWI "leadership" would back? When you have no friends outside TWI, and you suddenly leave, who are you going to get to back you up? Do you think it's impossible that TWI could produce witness after witness testifying what an awful mother templelady was?
quote:
be honest. Allen is right if you it is up to the individual to stand on his/her own and say what is right or wrong in life for them or their children. children are victims they have o voice the parents can empower themselves, if they chose and frankly it doesnt sound like you did MO. now blame twi, for all of it.
I am genuinely sorry for you Temple lady, whatever you think of me, but I tell you this, if you lived near me I would help you to win back your kids,considering as others have said that there are no extenuating circumstances on your part.
I think if I remember rightly you are/were Mormon ? hence the name Templelady ?
Did that have something to do with their outcome ?
There was no putrid fruit from twi we allowed to get a grip on our lives,but we 'ran away' with the apples so to speak !!
I lost custody because when the goings on of Mr Urquhart and my husband became known --no one believed I knew nothing about it.
I haven't even got started on the Physical, psycological and emotional abouse issues in my house.
I'm not going into the dynamics of social workers, courts, plea bargains, etc.
I haven't talked to my daughter in 7 years becuase she has been told all her life that there is no way I couldn't have known.
Never mind that I was the soul bread winner and was so exhausted I could hardly see straight as well as all the rest that goes with battered wife syndrome.
Did i know about the sexual abuse--H**ll no it took place out of our house when I was at work.
Yeah did I make mistakes you bet I did.
Take the kids and leave--I always find that so funny when people say it
And where in the days in the mid 80's does one go in Alaska with three kids ??
And just when precisely was I going to do it???
When exactly was my husband not present or if he was gone which child did he take with him??
And I was to leave that child behind??
And of course leadership Was a great help--they are the ones who sent Mr U to Alaska after he molested another believers child stateside!!!
What ever mistakes I made, I made but I Will not bow my head because someone with the midset
quote:
oh im not blaming the victim and you do have your crowd of attention seeking ramble here
Figure the pain I and countless others went through is somehow attention seeking.
You want attention seeking look to LCM or your sainted VPW
as I said earlier Failing to destroy goodness is not the same thing as creating goodness.
TWI has never created anything good and any good that came from TWI came from people who were good to start with. Show me one Leader that started out in TWi Bad and grew good because of their influence. Show me one leader that became more loving and more Christlike the longer he was with TWI.
Perhaps you need to condsider that I and the "attention seeking rabble" would have nothing to post if TWI's offences were not legion
You and I know what twi did and did not conspire about...we know because we were there.
Those who were not there and who dare to impose their version of things...well, sounds attention seeking to me...ya know?
Also sounds like they probably knew more than they are telling...because they probably were part of the cover-up somehow...and THAT'S been admitted by at least one of these twi loyalists.
I told everything I knew to Alaskan authorities...and it took 2 years for any action to come into play.
Why?
Because twi methodically covered up everything.
The investigation was hindered and thwarted because twi told people to make it so.
When Rich finally went outside of twi circles and raped non-twi children, THEN AND ONLY THEN twi had no control...THEN AND ONLY THEN the rest of his crimes became obvious...THEN AND ONLY THEN the whole house of cards came down.
None of these people criticizing you and me and others have come up with what they thought they could have done differently than any of us did. No, they don't go that far...they just criticize.
That speaks of a guilty conscious, imo. That speaks of knowing or suspecting things and keeping silent...or of being part of the crowd that called us liars and 'seed' and the rest of the crap twi put us through.
Maybe these 'miserable comforters' didn't know specifically about you and I and our experiences, but Rich was raping children in many different locations...and Rich was not the only pedophile aided and abetted by twi.
And what do the terms 'aid' and 'abet' mean anyway? And, if there is no fault or responsibility associated with aiding and abetting, why does society consider these things crimes?
I am so sorry that after sharing these incredibly difficult things that devistated your lives......(I wish that I could cross post this on to the lemonade thread and tell folks to add their sugar and try to make THESE lemons platable)
But geeeze after baring your soul.....you have to put up with a damned idiot who insist on trying to point the finger of blame at you is reprehensible.
(You utterly disgust me with your cruelty mj)
It happened on the child abuse threads, it happened on the sexual abuse threads, the abortion threads...it will happen anytime someone steps up and exposes the evil that was the very foundation of twi.....
If CW wasn`t here to back up your account, no doubt you would be termed a liar, but as it is, not being able to argue the content of you post... all one can do is try to attack you, try to somehow make you seem a little less credible.
It is like somehow, if they can smear just a little mud on you, it will make what twi did a little LESS dirty.
I can only thank you for your candor, it leaves no doubt to anyone as to the viscious nature of twi leaders...they KNEW damn it...and they covered...all the way up the way tree to vp....
You said it, and I believe that you are entirely correct, this is not the fruit born of a *healthy* tree.
Allan, that was a classy thing to say, I agree, I earnestly wish that there was some way that we could all make it right Mo.
I have to say that many of us upon closer examination of the fruit that we left with, upon closer examination, decided that just past the shiney exterior, it was rooten on the inside, some pieces had worms.
It was difficult to try to cut away the rot and find anything not tainted...
God has provided healthy trees for us to partake of wholesom fruit.
I'm apalled. Truly apalled. I don't read any posts by a certain someone anymore, but after reading Rascal's comments I had to go back and read what she was talking about. Cold, cruel and just plain uncalled for....and people wonder why victims don't post more on here. Sheez!!
Mo, you don't have to explain, much less, defend yourself to anyone and I'm sorry that you felt like you had to. I hope that those who knew and did nothing to help you whether by hinderances or by just not speaking up....I can only hope that they get what they've got coming to them. We already know one of them is miserable because her posts make it obvious.
Too bad this horrible disgusting crime is probably past the statute of limitations. If RU was never charged for the crimes he did to twi children,,maybe someone could sue him AND the way for the cover up.
I do not think twi cared enough about anyone in the group to spend two years testifying for the good of anyone.
could be people testified against a person if they felt that way about someone but it is only personal opinion.
I highly doubt the way went into court and testified about the good or bad of anyone.
individuals maybe and that is how they felt if they did..
social workers and all hmm trained professinals who deal with abused chidlren everyday. now they must be bias FOR the way as well?
come on.
I make no judgement about why you lost your children , I do not know why all im saying the fact you were involved in twi could work against you in these cases more than for you.
this is a little tiny cult in ohio not some muti million defense lawyer, and your trying to tell me they funded his defense? I do not believe it. I never saw the way give out any money for the like of that.. unless absolutly forced in name to defend themself as in the lawsuits against them.
you may have felt your were fighting twi. I understand that, but I ask you did twi the company go to court and testify your were a bad mother who deserved to lose custody?
or was it family friends who rallied against you to lose your kids?
even so they are only opinions .
I do not believe twi ever taught molesting children was meat of the word. this was a man you marrried a man you chose to have children with . how it played out for you sounds devasting and I also am sorry but how in hell was twi responsible for what happened to you?
it is like if your kid get molested within the family you and your hubby goes to a church, the church is blamed because some side with him and do not believe you, then the whole congregation is evil and supports child molestation?
it also sounds like you had alot of agenda other than the children . Im truly sorry they were victims.
I was a single parent nearly their enitre childhood, I know the issues, many do, it is no excuse I have no idea why you say that is even a factor in why you lost custody.
this story about twi being a butch of child molesters. adding and helping one another just isnt going to fly when your the one who lost custody . do I think they didnt get involved ? YES when maybe they should have done something about these type of problems they didnt, I agree.
do I think allowing strangers into your home to read the bible and do manisfestations and being all loving and trusting is dangerous? YES and said so from day one when you have small children to protect it is down right foolish to share babysitting the way we did etc. but again this was a family issue. Do I think it is possible some like your hubby better than you and may have gone to court and said why he was a better parent? oh yeah twi had tight friendships like that most groups do. but that is not the organization doing anything to be involved in it at all.
if your husband was convicted of child molesting the courts did not give a rats foot what group you belonged to their job is to help the kids... it didnt work out well for you IM sorry,the fact you were involved in twi had little to do with your mess.
maybe twi leaders didnt believe you, they didnt need to, they didnt believe me on what I told them as truth either.
many have stood in that place.
that does not make them guilty of helping a child molester or funding his defense or helping him in any way. as far as proof of your allegations you lost in court why would twi believe you?
1. TWI KNOWS that this SOB was accused, at the least, of molesting kids.
2. TWI moves the SOB to the farthest reaches of the earth, and somehow, disregards to inform their "members" what said SOB did, no less what he was capable of.
3. SOB repeats what he did, only on a much larger scale than before.
4. TWI throws mud, dirt, sand, bricks, anything they can possibly find into the machinery to save their miserable, complicit hides, besides whatever good name they thought they had..
You tell me.
From what I can tell, TWI has DESTROYED this family. And who is the destroyer, biblically speaking?
Call it an isolated incidence if you wish- but just one time brands them as traitors, to all of us. They would have let the bastard do the same thing to my kids, or yours, if you have any.
And you'd be scum, the lowest of the earth if you blew the whistle on the greasy bastards.
There are those in my area that probably still don't even know that this happened.
I never saw the way give out any money for the like of that
It has been posted: their representative said that TWI would take care of their financial "obligation" of paying said SOB's bills for him while he was in the can..
You have no clue what you're talking about. You can't even get it straight was has been said and what hasn't been said (for example, NOBODY has said that twi paid for his defense).
I lived with Mo and her family. I KNOW what I'm talking about.
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Oakspear
Law enforcement and the courts would not have had to be in on it. In a dispute over an innie and an outie spouse, who do you think the TWI "leadership" would back? When you have no friends outside TWI, and you suddenly leave, who are you going to get to back you up? Do you think it's impossible that TWI could produce witness after witness testifying what an awful mother templelady was?
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WordWolf
Welcome, Penguin.
That image and many others are in the GSC Photo Gallery off the
main GSC site.
I recommend looking thru ALL the sections of the main site.
Sometimes people ask for information that's been sitting there
for YEARS (people who've been here years.)
I'll bet there's at least a FEW documents there that will come
as complete shocks to you.
(There's the Schoenheit paper that says "the Bible says adultery
is always wrong" which resulted in Schoenheit being ostracized
and twi said readers of it would get possessed, the audio clip
that someone died because a family member left twi, and so on.)
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Allan
I am genuinely sorry for you Temple lady, whatever you think of me, but I tell you this, if you lived near me I would help you to win back your kids,considering as others have said that there are no extenuating circumstances on your part.
I think if I remember rightly you are/were Mormon ? hence the name Templelady ?
Did that have something to do with their outcome ?
There was no putrid fruit from twi we allowed to get a grip on our lives,but we 'ran away' with the apples so to speak !!
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templelady
I lost custody because when the goings on of Mr Urquhart and my husband became known --no one believed I knew nothing about it.
I haven't even got started on the Physical, psycological and emotional abouse issues in my house.
I'm not going into the dynamics of social workers, courts, plea bargains, etc.
I haven't talked to my daughter in 7 years becuase she has been told all her life that there is no way I couldn't have known.
Never mind that I was the soul bread winner and was so exhausted I could hardly see straight as well as all the rest that goes with battered wife syndrome.
Did i know about the sexual abuse--H**ll no it took place out of our house when I was at work.
Yeah did I make mistakes you bet I did.
Take the kids and leave--I always find that so funny when people say it
And where in the days in the mid 80's does one go in Alaska with three kids ??
And just when precisely was I going to do it???
When exactly was my husband not present or if he was gone which child did he take with him??
And I was to leave that child behind??
And of course leadership Was a great help--they are the ones who sent Mr U to Alaska after he molested another believers child stateside!!!
What ever mistakes I made, I made but I Will not bow my head because someone with the midset
Figure the pain I and countless others went through is somehow attention seeking.
You want attention seeking look to LCM or your sainted VPW
as I said earlier Failing to destroy goodness is not the same thing as creating goodness.
TWI has never created anything good and any good that came from TWI came from people who were good to start with. Show me one Leader that started out in TWi Bad and grew good because of their influence. Show me one leader that became more loving and more Christlike the longer he was with TWI.
Perhaps you need to condsider that I and the "attention seeking rabble" would have nothing to post if TWI's offences were not legion
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CoolWaters
{{{{{Mo}}}}}
You and I know what twi did and did not conspire about...we know because we were there.
Those who were not there and who dare to impose their version of things...well, sounds attention seeking to me...ya know?
Also sounds like they probably knew more than they are telling...because they probably were part of the cover-up somehow...and THAT'S been admitted by at least one of these twi loyalists.
I told everything I knew to Alaskan authorities...and it took 2 years for any action to come into play.
Why?
Because twi methodically covered up everything.
The investigation was hindered and thwarted because twi told people to make it so.
When Rich finally went outside of twi circles and raped non-twi children, THEN AND ONLY THEN twi had no control...THEN AND ONLY THEN the rest of his crimes became obvious...THEN AND ONLY THEN the whole house of cards came down.
None of these people criticizing you and me and others have come up with what they thought they could have done differently than any of us did. No, they don't go that far...they just criticize.
That speaks of a guilty conscious, imo. That speaks of knowing or suspecting things and keeping silent...or of being part of the crowd that called us liars and 'seed' and the rest of the crap twi put us through.
Maybe these 'miserable comforters' didn't know specifically about you and I and our experiences, but Rich was raping children in many different locations...and Rich was not the only pedophile aided and abetted by twi.
And what do the terms 'aid' and 'abet' mean anyway? And, if there is no fault or responsibility associated with aiding and abetting, why does society consider these things crimes?
Know-it-alls know nothing...and they show it.
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rascal
I am so sorry that after sharing these incredibly difficult things that devistated your lives......(I wish that I could cross post this on to the lemonade thread and tell folks to add their sugar and try to make THESE lemons platable)
But geeeze after baring your soul.....you have to put up with a damned idiot who insist on trying to point the finger of blame at you is reprehensible.
(You utterly disgust me with your cruelty mj)
It happened on the child abuse threads, it happened on the sexual abuse threads, the abortion threads...it will happen anytime someone steps up and exposes the evil that was the very foundation of twi.....
If CW wasn`t here to back up your account, no doubt you would be termed a liar, but as it is, not being able to argue the content of you post... all one can do is try to attack you, try to somehow make you seem a little less credible.
It is like somehow, if they can smear just a little mud on you, it will make what twi did a little LESS dirty.
I can only thank you for your candor, it leaves no doubt to anyone as to the viscious nature of twi leaders...they KNEW damn it...and they covered...all the way up the way tree to vp....
You said it, and I believe that you are entirely correct, this is not the fruit born of a *healthy* tree.
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rascal
Allan, that was a classy thing to say, I agree, I earnestly wish that there was some way that we could all make it right Mo.
I have to say that many of us upon closer examination of the fruit that we left with, upon closer examination, decided that just past the shiney exterior, it was rooten on the inside, some pieces had worms.
It was difficult to try to cut away the rot and find anything not tainted...
God has provided healthy trees for us to partake of wholesom fruit.
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Ham
May I add, they were SO successful, that only this year, this little "transgression" came to my attention.
They would've shipped the SOB off somewhere ELSE and not told anybody, if they could have- heck, they already did it once.
Does that answer the question?
But let's not blame der vey, by no means. They were far far too "busy", "moving da verd".
Too busy- just plain worn out from reaming people like me for breathing "their" air, or putting four ice cubes in the cup instead of three..
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Ham
Some of the reports given here may be considered petty, but I don't think so.
I think ALL the accounts have great value. They really can give people a proper perspective about what really got "leadership's" attention.
What got their "attention":
Don't tithe, as a minimum
Don't go to "twig", or whatever it is now..
Fail to be able to regurgitate the latest rag article in front of "friends"
God forbid, don't put four cubes of ice in the MOG's diet coke..
Fail to stand for the SOB when he walks in at the right time..
Fail to contribute by bringing new blood to the latest and greatest class, more than a class or so in a row..
Just makes you "worthless", "unproductive".
REALLY gets their attention.
Contrast this to the "attention" "Mr." Urquhart receives from the hands of der vey:
"Promise not to do it again?"
"Sure, sure.."
"OK. Lets just let bygones be bygone. Here, we have a place for you in Alaska, no worries 'mate'."
I saw one guy reamed at least three or four new holes- IN FRONT OF FORTY PEOPLE!!!! - for-
singing too loudly.
This coincides closely with the time of "Mr" Urquharts "service" in der vey.
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Belle
((((((MO))))))) ((((((CW))))))
I'm apalled. Truly apalled. I don't read any posts by a certain someone anymore, but after reading Rascal's comments I had to go back and read what she was talking about.
Cold, cruel and just plain uncalled for....and people wonder why victims don't post more on here. Sheez!!
Mo, you don't have to explain, much less, defend yourself to anyone and I'm sorry that you felt like you had to. I hope that those who knew and did nothing to help you whether by hinderances or by just not speaking up....I can only hope that they get what they've got coming to them. We already know one of them is miserable because her posts make it obvious.
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Ham
ONE of the things that REALLY bothers me about this, is how der "good" ole vey has left this situation UNRESOLVED.
Cover it all up, call the victim "possessed" or worse, claim it wasn't all that bad..
makes this a CURRENT issue.
Not that I expect to get one, but they owe ME an explanation.
Why they were so spiritually inept.
Why they couldn't see evil if even if it spit in their face.
How they could miss so MANY "details".
WHY they would just rather cover it up.
They owe.
They would have let the same SOB do the same .... to MY kids.
I was just "lucky"- that they did not ship the bastard off to MY area.
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Ham
Yep. And I'd a found myself here, years later, facing the same crap.
"Well, you just shoulda believed or something.."
Ptooie.
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Ham
Or, "but, but, it was so much FUN for the rest of us.. heck, even some folks got to SIT"
Double Ptooie.
They sold us a stinking illusion.
And took extraordinary efforts to ensure that the little bubble would not break.
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Brother Speed
triple ditto Mr Hammeroni
The difference in how I was treated before piffle and during my wow year was explained thusly:
at first its the milk of da werd, now its the meat of the werd
yeah, Mr. Hammeroni, I hear ya!
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Brother Speed
not a bitter pill to swallow at first, but little by little...then bam, its too bitter to give up
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
belle your response to mo tells me you truly are a belle
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penguin
Too bad this horrible disgusting crime is probably past the statute of limitations. If RU was never charged for the crimes he did to twi children,,maybe someone could sue him AND the way for the cover up.
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Ham
Yep. And they made sure it was served raw.
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oldiesman
Got raw meat?
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mj412
I do not think twi cared enough about anyone in the group to spend two years testifying for the good of anyone.
could be people testified against a person if they felt that way about someone but it is only personal opinion.
I highly doubt the way went into court and testified about the good or bad of anyone.
individuals maybe and that is how they felt if they did..
social workers and all hmm trained professinals who deal with abused chidlren everyday. now they must be bias FOR the way as well?
come on.
I make no judgement about why you lost your children , I do not know why all im saying the fact you were involved in twi could work against you in these cases more than for you.
this is a little tiny cult in ohio not some muti million defense lawyer, and your trying to tell me they funded his defense? I do not believe it. I never saw the way give out any money for the like of that.. unless absolutly forced in name to defend themself as in the lawsuits against them.
you may have felt your were fighting twi. I understand that, but I ask you did twi the company go to court and testify your were a bad mother who deserved to lose custody?
or was it family friends who rallied against you to lose your kids?
even so they are only opinions .
I do not believe twi ever taught molesting children was meat of the word. this was a man you marrried a man you chose to have children with . how it played out for you sounds devasting and I also am sorry but how in hell was twi responsible for what happened to you?
it is like if your kid get molested within the family you and your hubby goes to a church, the church is blamed because some side with him and do not believe you, then the whole congregation is evil and supports child molestation?
it also sounds like you had alot of agenda other than the children . Im truly sorry they were victims.
I was a single parent nearly their enitre childhood, I know the issues, many do, it is no excuse I have no idea why you say that is even a factor in why you lost custody.
this story about twi being a butch of child molesters. adding and helping one another just isnt going to fly when your the one who lost custody . do I think they didnt get involved ? YES when maybe they should have done something about these type of problems they didnt, I agree.
do I think allowing strangers into your home to read the bible and do manisfestations and being all loving and trusting is dangerous? YES and said so from day one when you have small children to protect it is down right foolish to share babysitting the way we did etc. but again this was a family issue. Do I think it is possible some like your hubby better than you and may have gone to court and said why he was a better parent? oh yeah twi had tight friendships like that most groups do. but that is not the organization doing anything to be involved in it at all.
if your husband was convicted of child molesting the courts did not give a rats foot what group you belonged to their job is to help the kids... it didnt work out well for you IM sorry,the fact you were involved in twi had little to do with your mess.
maybe twi leaders didnt believe you, they didnt need to, they didnt believe me on what I told them as truth either.
many have stood in that place.
that does not make them guilty of helping a child molester or funding his defense or helping him in any way. as far as proof of your allegations you lost in court why would twi believe you?
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Ham
Lessee..
1. TWI KNOWS that this SOB was accused, at the least, of molesting kids.
2. TWI moves the SOB to the farthest reaches of the earth, and somehow, disregards to inform their "members" what said SOB did, no less what he was capable of.
3. SOB repeats what he did, only on a much larger scale than before.
4. TWI throws mud, dirt, sand, bricks, anything they can possibly find into the machinery to save their miserable, complicit hides, besides whatever good name they thought they had..
You tell me.
From what I can tell, TWI has DESTROYED this family. And who is the destroyer, biblically speaking?
Call it an isolated incidence if you wish- but just one time brands them as traitors, to all of us. They would have let the bastard do the same thing to my kids, or yours, if you have any.
And you'd be scum, the lowest of the earth if you blew the whistle on the greasy bastards.
There are those in my area that probably still don't even know that this happened.
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Ham
But to implicate, or suggest MO somehow was responsable for all this..
kind of like accusing Jeffry Dalmer's parents of failing to teach him proper etiquette.
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Ham
It has been posted: their representative said that TWI would take care of their financial "obligation" of paying said SOB's bills for him while he was in the can..
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CoolWaters
mj,
You have no clue what you're talking about. You can't even get it straight was has been said and what hasn't been said (for example, NOBODY has said that twi paid for his defense).
I lived with Mo and her family. I KNOW what I'm talking about.
You're just being a 'Monday morning quarterback'.
Actually, you're being worse...
You're being Rich Urquhart all over again.
Can you for one moment just back off?
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