Rascal..I take offense at some things you say.."as WE sit in our little fellowships"
etc..
You know very well YOU are not involved in any 'fellowship' groups.
I really take offense because you think some of us are that 'dumb' to believe you that you have some sort of penchant for God but in reality sound determined to blaspheme Him any opportunity you get.
Look, Allan, you're coming across as if you are defending twi and what twi did/does to people's lives...and as if there is something wrong with rascal for daring to speak out against the evils of twi.
I know I am offending him and others cw, but if I can just communicate my disgust, my anger as being against a man and ministry who used God...rather than an assault on God or Christian values.....
Don`t know Allan, seems like it is you who have been doing the majority of the name calling and mud slinging this week...could it be that you haven`t left twitville as far behind as you think?
Also consider, if one is sitting in an outhouse, ummmm maybe that really isn`t *truths* you are holding on to....;-)
Come on Allan, I think that you are a good guy....
What I have to say may not be your cup of tea, but my points are still valid for consideration.
Ex 70s, I hear those sentments....wouldn`t it be nice if twi continues to dwindle to the point where there won`t BE anybody left at hq to be the recipient of any drive bys...lol
Mr. Hamm, great points about the shennanigans of twi and the like souring people against redemption....Twi experience has made me at times, seriously leary about my childrens involvement in christianity....
Shell, thanks for understanding....thanks for your clarity ..... you make this sound normal and healthy, rather than some nut job, insanely spewing venom at random.....
CW, you are SO right... if we stop telling, someone may not hear the warning. If even one more person gets seduced into twi...it is too many....Thankyou.
Abby, thanks....
Evan, I am not to that point yet....I mean, yeah I see God using what I have learned to alert us and others to hypocracy ...I also see myself as no longer intimidated by bullies...a much more confident, self reliant person........but I cannot bring myself to say...I thank God for my twi involvement....
I am a home school mom, can I ask who the name of your speaker was or could you pt me?
Daddy H, I think that I spent so many years pretending thatwhat I thought or felt didn`t matter, or that it was wrong to speak up, that I needed to simply renew my mind...be happy, only one thought at a time you control it...only speak positives.....maybe that is why I am here vomitting all over the screen 20 years later....
Guys I sure apreciate each and every one of you.......
Allan, the best I can say in defense of myself is...
When someone is thanking God for twi, saying that he is responsible for some great benefit recieved from involvement in twi....I seem to be no longer able to feel gratefull...
The reason for this it has become so difficult to read someone praising vp or twi, is because instead of fondly remembered teachings and meetings... I now hear the cries and tears of the children, I see the devistated faces of my sisters betrayed, I am haunted by the empty arms of the parents who were required to abort their children in service to God....
I cannot, feel like God led us there ....
I am so sorry that I cannot share your view on this matter.
I do not feel evil, Allan or that God hates me for this.
I thought that Evan put it very nicely...I've been out for 18 years now...and to this day, I see things "differently" than most folks...I can smell it coming from a mile away...and I have my experience in twi to thank for that...Once you've been conned by the cornfield preacher, shall we say, you gain a new perspective.
But in reality, most of us "leaves on the tree" were sincere folks who thought we were doing the right thing...as far as the leadership of twi goes...where do we draw the line? I was an area coordinator once... ...does that count? I mean...there were some good folks who got near the top...but it wasn't about whether God was working in twi or not...God works in individuals...not non-profit organizations...
...This bogus idea that twi was something "spiritually special" was what fed the elitist, egomaniac, delusional, fever...that spread throughout and turned many into asskissing ladder climbers (or in this case, tree climbers)...with this attitude prevalent, what else could anyone expect?
...but as I said, I have twi to thank for understanding this process.
Then why are you tauting twi teaching and treating rascal in the same manner a twig or branch leader would treat her?
quote:
...but I will reply if someone tries to lay blame on God whilst at the same time trying to purport a 'Christian' outlook.
First, rascal has not blamed God. If you're seeing that, then you're projecting.
Second, since when is it 'unChristian' to have normal human feelings and reactions? Oh...yeah...twi taught you that...never mind...
quote:
...Hey mate..I left all the personal name calling behind me in twitsville..maybe some people have more 'waybrain' than they would like to think !!
Just because you don't out and out say a name, the above quote is the same thing as calling 'some people' waybrain. Thanks for looking at the splinter in the eye of 'some people'...
quote:
If holding onto 'foundational Biblical truths' learnt means I sit in an out-house rather than a castle, I take that as a priviledge, I'm sure Jesus can relate to that !!
First, there was no truth taught in twi. It was all twisted to the point that people...you included...ended up not recognizing the truth.
Second, if you're still holding on to 'foundational Biblical truths' then you don't know Jesus...and therefore cannot be sure of anything about Him.
Furthermore, I believe it is a disgrace that some have chosen to stay with TWI at this point.
It is as if they are and have been condoning all the evils you speak of. At this point they know better.
Personally I would hate to be one of those men or women with absolutely no guts and no courage. I call them cowards. Some of them will go to their grave as cowards who stood for nothing and SUPPORTED evil. Few will attend their funerals I bet.
You took one line of one poster on a three page thread to harangue on...please, take a look at the bigger picture.
You apparently are unable to comprehend the motives for what I post....no matter, it does not negate their value, or my integrety.
As far as any blame I chose assigne? ....The way I see it. ... either twi was screwed up or God was...people were hurt, people died...
If you can stop frothing at the mouth long enough to give a coherant answere, I would welcome your input, as I have stated previously, every single poster here has something valuable to contribute.
It was a RHETORICAL question Allan...the answere being a resounding NO!....that leaves the alternative....twi being run by evil men masquerading as pastors....wolves in sheeps clothing perhaps?
I have no gratitude or praise for these who wrought such devistation in the name of God.
Allan, I posted what I really meant, most of the rest of the folks were able to understand the point being made without havingto have it spelled out....
I do not have to cater to your current understanding Allan. I will continue to write what I deem important, whether I have your approval or not.
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Allan
Rascal..I take offense at some things you say.."as WE sit in our little fellowships"
etc..
You know very well YOU are not involved in any 'fellowship' groups.
I really take offense because you think some of us are that 'dumb' to believe you that you have some sort of penchant for God but in reality sound determined to blaspheme Him any opportunity you get.
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Ham
Thanks for that little "gem", Mr. Eliphaz.
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rascal
Allan, you are mistaken brother, but that doesn`t offend me.
The only blaspheming *I* intend on doing, is against people whom decieve and destroy in God`s name....
As long as you and I can agree on that, then we remain alies on the same side of this battle.
respectfully, Cathy
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CoolWaters
Look, Allan, you're coming across as if you are defending twi and what twi did/does to people's lives...and as if there is something wrong with rascal for daring to speak out against the evils of twi.
Is this your intent?
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rascal
I know I am offending him and others cw, but if I can just communicate my disgust, my anger as being against a man and ministry who used God...rather than an assault on God or Christian values.....
It might make a differance.
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Allan
No I don't defend twi at all,but I will reply if someone tries to lay blame on God whilst at the same time trying to purport a 'Christian' outlook.
Hammeroni..did you call me Eliphaz ?
Hey mate..I left all the personal name calling behind me in twitsville..maybe some people have more 'waybrain' than they would like to think !!
As for sitting in an out-house..
If holding onto 'foundational Biblical truths'
learnt means I sit in an out-house rather than a castle,I take that as a priviledge,I'm sure Jesus can relate to that !!
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rascal
Don`t know Allan, seems like it is you who have been doing the majority of the name calling and mud slinging this week...could it be that you haven`t left twitville as far behind as you think?
Also consider, if one is sitting in an outhouse, ummmm maybe that really isn`t *truths* you are holding on to....;-)
Come on Allan, I think that you are a good guy....
What I have to say may not be your cup of tea, but my points are still valid for consideration.
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Oakspear
If one believes that what was taught in TWI was NOT "The Word of God", then how is criticizing their doctrine blaspheming God?
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Oakspear
and another thing ; - )
If the only way your god can get his "word" out is through a lying, abusive, egomaniac, then perhaps you need a new god.
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rascal
Ex 70s, I hear those sentments....wouldn`t it be nice if twi continues to dwindle to the point where there won`t BE anybody left at hq to be the recipient of any drive bys...lol
Mr. Hamm, great points about the shennanigans of twi and the like souring people against redemption....Twi experience has made me at times, seriously leary about my childrens involvement in christianity....
Shell, thanks for understanding....thanks for your clarity ..... you make this sound normal and healthy, rather than some nut job, insanely spewing venom at random.....
CW, you are SO right... if we stop telling, someone may not hear the warning. If even one more person gets seduced into twi...it is too many....Thankyou.
Abby, thanks....
Evan, I am not to that point yet....I mean, yeah I see God using what I have learned to alert us and others to hypocracy ...I also see myself as no longer intimidated by bullies...a much more confident, self reliant person........but I cannot bring myself to say...I thank God for my twi involvement....
I am a home school mom, can I ask who the name of your speaker was or could you pt me?
Daddy H, I think that I spent so many years pretending thatwhat I thought or felt didn`t matter, or that it was wrong to speak up, that I needed to simply renew my mind...be happy, only one thought at a time you control it...only speak positives.....maybe that is why I am here vomitting all over the screen 20 years later....
Guys I sure apreciate each and every one of you.......
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rascal
Good point Oak, doesn`t speak very highly of God if vp was the best he could muster.
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rascal
Allan, the best I can say in defense of myself is...
When someone is thanking God for twi, saying that he is responsible for some great benefit recieved from involvement in twi....I seem to be no longer able to feel gratefull...
The reason for this it has become so difficult to read someone praising vp or twi, is because instead of fondly remembered teachings and meetings... I now hear the cries and tears of the children, I see the devistated faces of my sisters betrayed, I am haunted by the empty arms of the parents who were required to abort their children in service to God....
I cannot, feel like God led us there ....
I am so sorry that I cannot share your view on this matter.
I do not feel evil, Allan or that God hates me for this.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I thought that Evan put it very nicely...I've been out for 18 years now...and to this day, I see things "differently" than most folks...I can smell it coming from a mile away...and I have my experience in twi to thank for that...Once you've been conned by the cornfield preacher, shall we say, you gain a new perspective.
But in reality, most of us "leaves on the tree" were sincere folks who thought we were doing the right thing...as far as the leadership of twi goes...where do we draw the line? I was an area coordinator once...
...does that count? I mean...there were some good folks who got near the top...but it wasn't about whether God was working in twi or not...God works in individuals...not non-profit organizations...
...This bogus idea that twi was something "spiritually special" was what fed the elitist, egomaniac, delusional, fever...that spread throughout and turned many into asskissing ladder climbers (or in this case, tree climbers)...with this attitude prevalent, what else could anyone expect?
...but as I said, I have twi to thank for understanding this process.
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CoolWaters
Then why are you tauting twi teaching and treating rascal in the same manner a twig or branch leader would treat her?
First, rascal has not blamed God. If you're seeing that, then you're projecting.
Second, since when is it 'unChristian' to have normal human feelings and reactions? Oh...yeah...twi taught you that...never mind...
Just because you don't out and out say a name, the above quote is the same thing as calling 'some people' waybrain. Thanks for looking at the splinter in the eye of 'some people'...
First, there was no truth taught in twi. It was all twisted to the point that people...you included...ended up not recognizing the truth.
Second, if you're still holding on to 'foundational Biblical truths' then you don't know Jesus...and therefore cannot be sure of anything about Him.
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CoolWaters
Double post...sorry...
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igotout
Rascal,
Furthermore, I believe it is a disgrace that some have chosen to stay with TWI at this point.
It is as if they are and have been condoning all the evils you speak of. At this point they know better.
Personally I would hate to be one of those men or women with absolutely no guts and no courage. I call them cowards. Some of them will go to their grave as cowards who stood for nothing and SUPPORTED evil. Few will attend their funerals I bet.
What a LESS than abundant life!
John Richeson
Tampa, FL
Former 7th Corps grad
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WhiteDove
Quote
First, there was no truth taught in twi. It was all twisted to the point that people...you included...ended up not recognizing the truth.QUOTE
Come on COOL... NONE? ZERO? not one thing that was true? Please.......
It is well documented that VPW and others taught things borrowed from people that are recognised in the Biblical Academic community as being truthful.
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Allan
White Dove, this is one of the things I take issue with.."no truth taught in twi" !!
Come on 'rascal' and some of you others, be honest and vent your true motives for posting some of the things you do !!
And yes,Rascal has blamed, mocked God on her posts, keep it honest pllllease.
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rascal
Ummm Allan, I didn`t write that.
You took one line of one poster on a three page thread to harangue on...please, take a look at the bigger picture.
You apparently are unable to comprehend the motives for what I post....no matter, it does not negate their value, or my integrety.
As far as any blame I chose assigne? ....The way I see it. ... either twi was screwed up or God was...people were hurt, people died...
If you can stop frothing at the mouth long enough to give a coherant answere, I would welcome your input, as I have stated previously, every single poster here has something valuable to contribute.
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Allan
Page one of this thread..Rascal.."could God really be responsible, does He really deserve praise for such devastation wrought in His name"? end quote
Aah, I get it now..did God reallyyy say..
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rascal
It was a RHETORICAL question Allan...the answere being a resounding NO!....that leaves the alternative....twi being run by evil men masquerading as pastors....wolves in sheeps clothing perhaps?
I have no gratitude or praise for these who wrought such devistation in the name of God.
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Allan
Rascal..if thats' what you reallyyyy meant maybe you should have said 'NO' at the end of the thread ?
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rascal
Allan, I posted what I really meant, most of the rest of the folks were able to understand the point being made without havingto have it spelled out....
I do not have to cater to your current understanding Allan. I will continue to write what I deem important, whether I have your approval or not.
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Oakspear
use smaller words rascal
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