Mo, I have heard your story before and am always deeply moved by what you and your children have gone through. Unlike the naive, I know that women back then did not have much of a voice, I am glad there are advocacy groups out there now to help women in these situations. I know that the police did not take women seriously, even in the 80's and some of the 90's. They just had no idea or interest to help battered women.
There are very many corrupt social workers out there, there are many good ones. Sometimes its the luck of the draw. I know I have seen it myself in many cases, social workers have their own problems.
Bottom line is that you do not have to justify yourself to anyone. You know what happened, your regrets, hind sight is 20/20. No one has walked in your shoes but you. No one can say well I would of...since they were not there and did not live the experience. Its so easy to sit on the sideline of someone's life, so much harder to step into their shoes.
I think it is very brave of you to say what you went through. You can help others sort through their own personal pains that were related to TWI. There are many, for every "I had a great time in the way story" there are many more "the way hurt me and my family story" You post here and share your story with us, just think of those who have gone through the same thing, but feel ashamed and cannot post. Of course, it does not help that people want to bash others for their stories. But, you do not let it stop you and go as far as anwering those who want to blame the victim. I applaud you.
I hope your children will some day soon get the help they need. I hope that they will rise above. You did, I know they have it in them.
I want to say thank you to all those who have offered their support and love here for my children and myself
I Want to speak to those who feel differently
I want to say that I know where you are coming from. I was raised in a good family, a good neighborhood, with God and values.
When Social Services entered my life, my first thought was "thank God, they will get the B------- out of the house and away from me and the kids" What happened was I got the social worker with the Cocaine habit, who walked into the room and literally his first words were
"your're wearing a black pantsuit which means you are a manic depresseive who beats her kids to relieve her stress"
He was in charge of my case--His opinions were what mattered. I asked to see a judge and was told "we (DFYS) make the decisions the courts function is merely to rubber stamp our decisions"
and I fought on ---
you see I believed in the system, I believed that we had the best jurisprucdence in the world.
I believed that the truth will out, I believed that Social Services was to protect the weak. I believed that if I were innocent I had nothing to fear. I believed the great American myth we have all been raised with.
The reality is so different
It isn't about truth it's about which side has the most resources to make their version stick
It isn't about child welfare --it's about a multi million dollar industry of doctors, lawyers, foster parents, social workers, day care providers, judges, cops, investigators and state agencies that hold the banner of "child Abuse" high as they stuff their pockets.
It's not about reuniting families --it's about keeping the statistics on the high end to funnel more state dollars in to the municipal coffers and more federal dollars into the state coffers
It's about terrified woman, and children and men too whose only support is a caseworker who has to operate within the system. A good caseworker can do so much a bad caseworker .......
THe Urquhart & Dilley cases funneled in excess of $80 Million dollars into State coffers over the next several years, for the combating of child abuse, from federal matching funds--can you imagine how much more it would have been if one or all of us had died???
you think I am exagerating? The Mc MArtin Case, Ruby Ridge, Waco, Rodney King, and countless other examples show a system sated with its own power, self righteous in its dominion.
IN the past three years in Alaska at least two children have died in foster care, the punishment for the foster parents --none to negligible.
Studies have shown that if the money spent on foster care were instead funneled back to the families with case management geared toward removing the abuser, counseling and support for the rest of the family the success rate would double. But the foster care system continues to go on with calls for more foster care workers and more funds. WHY??
YOu can never know what it is like to fight this battle until you have been in the midst of it. Over the years I have encountered more that one person who feels as MJ does. On at least two occassions I recieved calls from those same people down the road when they found their own families impacted by social services--stunned, shocked and horrified as the realities of the sytem slapped them hard in the face.
Be prepared all it takes is one phone call from a disgruntled neighbor, a divorce, a bruise that can't be explained, a child who complains that "mommy is mean"...
that's all it takes and the octopus takes over--And you jump through hoops, and you cry, and you plead, and you beg--and it goes on because you are a statistic --the easy course to remove the abuser permanently from the home and make sure he never comes back--is costly and time consuming--much easier to continue to provide/force "services' and keep the dollars flowing
your story is why I wrote what I did about Gods grace in a family.
your not alone in dealing with misfortune.
or drama in the family or criminal courts.
these things happen every moment of the day.
I never said I trusted social workers or the courts far from it, I have a judge and a ruler and a King that takes care of those He calls by name. His name isnt money or corrupt power it is Jesus christ.
I personly owe eevry grace I have lived to HIM and Him alone.
I have never been disappointed.
that is my story. It is as exciting as tales of woe and injustice it is a peaceful righteousnes story of adventure and strength. far to deep and honest even for words sometimes.
But He can handle any adversity in life. God loves families and Jesus said to not forbid the little ones to come to HIM. I would not doubt you when you say it is a corrupt world we live in and sorry sad pathetic cases are had every day... every moment of every day. I only say we have a friend and attorny bigger and better than any man made system and He has won every single time. thank God I know HIm and I thank God for His HOLY Son in my life.
think what you will speak of what you will Im here to praise God for the grace I have seen in much adversary and trouble.
I am just being honest when I say I do not understand your choice to give your children away, but it is your life temple lady you must live it not me, I make no judgement.
I pray to live in 'service" to HIM only as do many many others who are out in this world loving god listneing to His directives and getting the job done.
I am just being honest when I say I do not understand your choice to give your children away, but it is your life temple lady you must live it not me, I make no judgement
I can't stand it.
You've not 'heard' a single word she said. MJ, did I understand you to say once that you were educated in the human service/social work field?
Okay MJ I am going to try to say this one more time so you will understand
Aggravated by 7 years of abuse, hubby, TWI, trials, Rich Urquhart etal I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in the late 80's
Multiple Sclerosis is a disease
It can't be cured by counseling
How fast it progresses or deblitates is not predicatable
THe State of Alaska, in its infinite wsidom in the 80's took the position, that A mother with a debilitating condition would be unable to adequately care for her children and so they would take them from her(one acquantance of mine lost her children because of severe back problems which made her a near invalid)
I could have gone to trial =--but how do you prove to a court that Multiple Sclerosis won't leave you in a wheel chair next month, next week, next Year ???
You Can't
So rather than put my children through another trial in a case I COULD NOT win I relinquished.
Research Geek posted this eloquent quote on another thread of another topic nearly a year ago. I believe that it has a certain relevance to be posted here and now.
“I also am thinking about the silent majority who have read this thread but not posted: our beloved lurkers. If just one of them gets healed, it was worth it.â€
you do not stand accountable to me. you need not explain anything to anyone, you chose to tell your story on this forum.
I personly would be dead before I gave my children over to a drug dealing child molester as you describe your ex.
that is me.
what I do not think is correct is "twi" called any authority and told them anything, they do not invest in humans in such a manner . in other words they frankly do not give a dam.
is is possible someone from twi made a telephone call. yes.
as this thread shows many people involved in the organization had personal agenda and even gripes with individuals and alot of family and friends got involved together and close ties where formed.
maybe Mo ****** the worng person off or her hubby had a person willing to tell them you were suffering to the point they felt you could not parent your children, and you agreed.
Yes shellon I have a very rich past and present with those who advocate for children in the courts and otherwise. it isnt about judgement sure a judge calls the shots it is the law, and consel is soughtby those directly involved in the case of problems facing the family, A family court primary mission to to keep the family intact and hepled by any means possible. A judge who consistently puts children into a foster care system or other wise living off the taxpayer will not be a judge long. Family court judges are voted into office. People who vote care about where money is spent and what is effective and helpful for the community at large for the most part.In temple lady case she admited she could no longer parent her children , no one judged her as unable to parent her children but her self. I may feel a certain manner will work for my personal life but certainly not all parents can or do raise their children in my personal style or opinions. the law is written for a safe gaurd as best as it can be and many are working on it everyday to do better i praise all the workers in the trenches with families trying to struggle thru such deep and abiding issues in life.
I think it is a system as all system go, it is political and costly and not always able to fix the complex problems families face but it is the only one we have, I willing pay for the services and do look at the outcomes in my area .
social workers must work and they work hard and long ALL of them ,theycan burn out easy for a reason. very little pay and an ungrateful community for the most part but most are in it because they want to help families or they can not or do not stick around to long. CPS workers are on my top five angels unawares group I pray for .
It is very sensational to read the paper, and hear about the one that failed and the child who died at the hand of an abuser, but this isnt the life and blood of what it is, it is the hundreds of cases and more added everyday on each desk , and the person willing to go into drug infested neighborhoods and very troubled families taking their own personal safety as only a second thought and help them sort through itall and fix the issues so the family can survive and often times floursih after their intervention.
they are unsung heros truly. Successful outcomes do not get in the papers or get posted on internet forums .
people feed off filth not wellness when searching for something to take the focus off their own life and on how another must be so much worse. It is very easy to say well isnt he just a scumbage and talk about how he should fry . YET a true step up would be to go into a conversation with them and try to work with the laws we do have in place to avoid another generation repeating the learned behaviour of abuse or neglect.
CPS workers, family court judges, lawyers advocating for children in the courts know the mess people can get into in life first hand every single day and still are able and willing to get in the fight with some of the most ill individuals and help in any way they are able.
Instead of talking about how terrible this or that must be they actualy attempt to do something with a solution... front lines of defense against the very scum of the earth to HELPin action and truth I consider each and every one and consider the work noble and very very needed today.
I never read that ANYWHERE. The way I read it, Mo did NOT agree with the state of Alaska in their "infinite" wisdom..
quote:
maybe Mo ****** the worng person off or her hubby had a person willing to tell them you were suffering to the point they felt you could not parent your children, and you agreed.
despicable.
Yep. She must have pi**ed somebody off, all the way up the vey tree..
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templelady
Fully agreed--
Rich if you are out there or if your lovely wife is
PLease feel free to post "your Side" I, and I am sure many others, would love to hear it
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mj412
no Im not micheal jackson nor do i have a wheel chair anywhere .
are you making stuff up ? I am not disabled in any way I work over forty five hours a week have a home and a large loving family and grand children .
mean little people? lol sticks and stones .no not little or mean .
I understand people get upset with the truth .
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Oakspear
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WordWolf
and traffic jams!
and IRS audits!
and mimes!
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templelady
Actually the truth deosn't bother me --it's the half truths, and sanctimonious self righteousness that drive me nuts
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AdiosMiCorazon
and rude people
ignorant people
and dumb people
Mo, I have heard your story before and am always deeply moved by what you and your children have gone through. Unlike the naive, I know that women back then did not have much of a voice, I am glad there are advocacy groups out there now to help women in these situations. I know that the police did not take women seriously, even in the 80's and some of the 90's. They just had no idea or interest to help battered women.
There are very many corrupt social workers out there, there are many good ones. Sometimes its the luck of the draw. I know I have seen it myself in many cases, social workers have their own problems.
Bottom line is that you do not have to justify yourself to anyone. You know what happened, your regrets, hind sight is 20/20. No one has walked in your shoes but you. No one can say well I would of...since they were not there and did not live the experience. Its so easy to sit on the sideline of someone's life, so much harder to step into their shoes.
I think it is very brave of you to say what you went through. You can help others sort through their own personal pains that were related to TWI. There are many, for every "I had a great time in the way story" there are many more "the way hurt me and my family story" You post here and share your story with us, just think of those who have gone through the same thing, but feel ashamed and cannot post. Of course, it does not help that people want to bash others for their stories. But, you do not let it stop you and go as far as anwering those who want to blame the victim. I applaud you.
I hope your children will some day soon get the help they need. I hope that they will rise above. You did, I know they have it in them.
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templelady
I want to say thank you to all those who have offered their support and love here for my children and myself
I Want to speak to those who feel differently
I want to say that I know where you are coming from. I was raised in a good family, a good neighborhood, with God and values.
When Social Services entered my life, my first thought was "thank God, they will get the B------- out of the house and away from me and the kids" What happened was I got the social worker with the Cocaine habit, who walked into the room and literally his first words were
"your're wearing a black pantsuit which means you are a manic depresseive who beats her kids to relieve her stress"
He was in charge of my case--His opinions were what mattered. I asked to see a judge and was told "we (DFYS) make the decisions the courts function is merely to rubber stamp our decisions"
and I fought on ---
you see I believed in the system, I believed that we had the best jurisprucdence in the world.
I believed that the truth will out, I believed that Social Services was to protect the weak. I believed that if I were innocent I had nothing to fear. I believed the great American myth we have all been raised with.
The reality is so different
It isn't about truth it's about which side has the most resources to make their version stick
It isn't about child welfare --it's about a multi million dollar industry of doctors, lawyers, foster parents, social workers, day care providers, judges, cops, investigators and state agencies that hold the banner of "child Abuse" high as they stuff their pockets.
It's not about reuniting families --it's about keeping the statistics on the high end to funnel more state dollars in to the municipal coffers and more federal dollars into the state coffers
It's about terrified woman, and children and men too whose only support is a caseworker who has to operate within the system. A good caseworker can do so much a bad caseworker .......
THe Urquhart & Dilley cases funneled in excess of $80 Million dollars into State coffers over the next several years, for the combating of child abuse, from federal matching funds--can you imagine how much more it would have been if one or all of us had died???
you think I am exagerating? The Mc MArtin Case, Ruby Ridge, Waco, Rodney King, and countless other examples show a system sated with its own power, self righteous in its dominion.
IN the past three years in Alaska at least two children have died in foster care, the punishment for the foster parents --none to negligible.
Studies have shown that if the money spent on foster care were instead funneled back to the families with case management geared toward removing the abuser, counseling and support for the rest of the family the success rate would double. But the foster care system continues to go on with calls for more foster care workers and more funds. WHY??
YOu can never know what it is like to fight this battle until you have been in the midst of it. Over the years I have encountered more that one person who feels as MJ does. On at least two occassions I recieved calls from those same people down the road when they found their own families impacted by social services--stunned, shocked and horrified as the realities of the sytem slapped them hard in the face.
Be prepared all it takes is one phone call from a disgruntled neighbor, a divorce, a bruise that can't be explained, a child who complains that "mommy is mean"...
that's all it takes and the octopus takes over--And you jump through hoops, and you cry, and you plead, and you beg--and it goes on because you are a statistic --the easy course to remove the abuser permanently from the home and make sure he never comes back--is costly and time consuming--much easier to continue to provide/force "services' and keep the dollars flowing
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mj412
your story is why I wrote what I did about Gods grace in a family.
your not alone in dealing with misfortune.
or drama in the family or criminal courts.
these things happen every moment of the day.
I never said I trusted social workers or the courts far from it, I have a judge and a ruler and a King that takes care of those He calls by name. His name isnt money or corrupt power it is Jesus christ.
I personly owe eevry grace I have lived to HIM and Him alone.
I have never been disappointed.
that is my story. It is as exciting as tales of woe and injustice it is a peaceful righteousnes story of adventure and strength. far to deep and honest even for words sometimes.
But He can handle any adversity in life. God loves families and Jesus said to not forbid the little ones to come to HIM. I would not doubt you when you say it is a corrupt world we live in and sorry sad pathetic cases are had every day... every moment of every day. I only say we have a friend and attorny bigger and better than any man made system and He has won every single time. thank God I know HIm and I thank God for His HOLY Son in my life.
think what you will speak of what you will Im here to praise God for the grace I have seen in much adversary and trouble.
I am just being honest when I say I do not understand your choice to give your children away, but it is your life temple lady you must live it not me, I make no judgement.
I pray to live in 'service" to HIM only as do many many others who are out in this world loving god listneing to His directives and getting the job done.
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Shellon
I can't stand it.
You've not 'heard' a single word she said. MJ, did I understand you to say once that you were educated in the human service/social work field?
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templelady
Okay MJ I am going to try to say this one more time so you will understand
Aggravated by 7 years of abuse, hubby, TWI, trials, Rich Urquhart etal I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis in the late 80's
Multiple Sclerosis is a disease
It can't be cured by counseling
How fast it progresses or deblitates is not predicatable
THe State of Alaska, in its infinite wsidom in the 80's took the position, that A mother with a debilitating condition would be unable to adequately care for her children and so they would take them from her(one acquantance of mine lost her children because of severe back problems which made her a near invalid)
I could have gone to trial =--but how do you prove to a court that Multiple Sclerosis won't leave you in a wheel chair next month, next week, next Year ???
You Can't
So rather than put my children through another trial in a case I COULD NOT win I relinquished.
Is that clear???
Any other questions??
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WordWolf
OTHER questions?
No,
but you'll want to keep quoting this answer when this SAME question keeps coming
up over....and over....and over....
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Oakspear
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Brother Speed
Word wolf,
Research Geek posted this eloquent quote on another thread of another topic nearly a year ago. I believe that it has a certain relevance to be posted here and now.
“I also am thinking about the silent majority who have read this thread but not posted: our beloved lurkers. If just one of them gets healed, it was worth it.â€
Amen RG, Amen
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templelady
Oh yes one other interesting side note
by 1989 I had divorced hubby and left TWI
So how did DFYS find out that I had been diagnosed with MS in 1987???
TWI called and told them!
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Ham
Copy and paste can be quite effective..
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mj412
temple lady
you do not stand accountable to me. you need not explain anything to anyone, you chose to tell your story on this forum.
I personly would be dead before I gave my children over to a drug dealing child molester as you describe your ex.
that is me.
what I do not think is correct is "twi" called any authority and told them anything, they do not invest in humans in such a manner . in other words they frankly do not give a dam.
is is possible someone from twi made a telephone call. yes.
as this thread shows many people involved in the organization had personal agenda and even gripes with individuals and alot of family and friends got involved together and close ties where formed.
maybe Mo ****** the worng person off or her hubby had a person willing to tell them you were suffering to the point they felt you could not parent your children, and you agreed.
Yes shellon I have a very rich past and present with those who advocate for children in the courts and otherwise. it isnt about judgement sure a judge calls the shots it is the law, and consel is soughtby those directly involved in the case of problems facing the family, A family court primary mission to to keep the family intact and hepled by any means possible. A judge who consistently puts children into a foster care system or other wise living off the taxpayer will not be a judge long. Family court judges are voted into office. People who vote care about where money is spent and what is effective and helpful for the community at large for the most part.In temple lady case she admited she could no longer parent her children , no one judged her as unable to parent her children but her self. I may feel a certain manner will work for my personal life but certainly not all parents can or do raise their children in my personal style or opinions. the law is written for a safe gaurd as best as it can be and many are working on it everyday to do better i praise all the workers in the trenches with families trying to struggle thru such deep and abiding issues in life.
I think it is a system as all system go, it is political and costly and not always able to fix the complex problems families face but it is the only one we have, I willing pay for the services and do look at the outcomes in my area .
social workers must work and they work hard and long ALL of them ,theycan burn out easy for a reason. very little pay and an ungrateful community for the most part but most are in it because they want to help families or they can not or do not stick around to long. CPS workers are on my top five angels unawares group I pray for .
It is very sensational to read the paper, and hear about the one that failed and the child who died at the hand of an abuser, but this isnt the life and blood of what it is, it is the hundreds of cases and more added everyday on each desk , and the person willing to go into drug infested neighborhoods and very troubled families taking their own personal safety as only a second thought and help them sort through itall and fix the issues so the family can survive and often times floursih after their intervention.
they are unsung heros truly. Successful outcomes do not get in the papers or get posted on internet forums .
people feed off filth not wellness when searching for something to take the focus off their own life and on how another must be so much worse. It is very easy to say well isnt he just a scumbage and talk about how he should fry . YET a true step up would be to go into a conversation with them and try to work with the laws we do have in place to avoid another generation repeating the learned behaviour of abuse or neglect.
CPS workers, family court judges, lawyers advocating for children in the courts know the mess people can get into in life first hand every single day and still are able and willing to get in the fight with some of the most ill individuals and help in any way they are able.
Instead of talking about how terrible this or that must be they actualy attempt to do something with a solution... front lines of defense against the very scum of the earth to HELPin action and truth I consider each and every one and consider the work noble and very very needed today.
well you asked shellon and there is my opinion.
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CoolWaters
Edited because I was in terrible form and getting personal.
I'm sorry.
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mj412
cool water
since you like to say OMG alot , God provides for my family, not social services or drugs. so while your screaming for Him ask Him for the truth .
or just keep ranting on with speculation and accusations, every one has their choices in life.
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Shellon
Again I ask did I understand you to say once that you were educated in the human service/social work field?
Please note word 'educated'. College, degree, training.
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CoolWaters
Edited because I was in terrible form and getting personal.
I'm sorry.
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mj412
yep bought and paid for.
thank God.
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Shellon
bought and paid for......um huh?
What'd ya buy and pay for?
If you mean your degree in a human service/social services related degree, I'm curious as to why you don't practice same or work in that field today.
I'll make it simple. I have an Associate of Applied Sciences Degree in Human Service, working on my Bachelor of Sciences in same.
Your degree?
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Ham
I never read that ANYWHERE. The way I read it, Mo did NOT agree with the state of Alaska in their "infinite" wisdom..
despicable.
Yep. She must have pi**ed somebody off, all the way up the vey tree..
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Ham
Edited because it contained the WORST insult I could throw at ANYBODY.
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