praising or cursing

[LG]

mj,

Mean little people like you are not worth bothering with.

[Ham]

quote:

IF we're talking spiritual sources, let's talk spiritual sources exclusively.

I for one, believe that life is spiritual to begin with..

But anyway, let's say a guy learns about the lord while he's in JAIL. Certainly can't describe a jail as a godly, christian, love evoking atmosphere..

Still doesn't excuse actions taken by sadistic guards or other officials.

Is God "there"? Apparently. Some people actually claim they got born again, and learned the bible while there.

What about a freak show, with a hooligan of a "minister", who hides behind religious skirts while pillaging and raping his "flock"?

Ah, they got "the word"- but it still does not validate the campaign as a godly, religious event..

Just for ME- I personally conclude that this is no different. God has no choice BUT to be there.. though He may rather be somewhere else!

I can think of a couple of posters that got FURIOUS when I asked what the "results" were.

"You'll be SUPRISED with the RESULTS you'll get from coming back to.... so and so.."

Please, list them..

Myself, twenty some years of servitude, and I was suprised with the LACK of results.

"Well, I spoke in tongues"

I say, "If you were just a LITTLE MORE than a animal, you could still SIT, even in a RC church"

"I am so peaceful"

Of COURSE you are. "They" will hide every bit and all of the questionable doo doo, and "let" you live in your "perfect" world. No worries, mate.. believing will fix everything..

"I am so blessed".. SURE you are. Well, let's hear what the definition of "blessed" is-

"Well, its just, you know, so blessed".

Really convinces me.. no frowns in der vey..

I suggest that MANY of the "blessings" were no more than a carefully crafted illusion. A bunch of nice, smiley people, enjoying each other's company.. nothing wrong with that in itself. But I saw a group of people in the corner bar here like that last week.

Didn't make the bar God, either..

[Allan]

I just don't get that to some of you just about every evil thing that happens in the world somehow gets traced back to t.w.i.

No way have I defended their evil actions just because myself and MANY others walked away with great truths.

There is usually two sides to most stories !

Any 'innies' or 'lurkers' reading this, listen up..

You can leave t.w.i. a happy and well adjusted person and live an even more fulfilling life for you and your family.

You will not die or have any more evil happen to you than the next joey on the street.

Many of us left and still hold on to the truths learnt and are still moving forward with the things of God.

[templelady]

Morning everyone!

Brother Speed --Thank you for putting you olife on the line for us

Oldies _ God did bless us in those seven years--We got out alive-- and that was not a sure outcome

I am still waiting fot those defenders of TWI to answer one of my intial questions

quote:

Show me one Leader that started out in TWi Bad and grew good because of their influence. Show me one leader that became more loving and more Christlike the longer he was with TWI

As for MJ --this is just speculation on my part but there are so many things posted and the way the phraseology reads-- so tell me MJ

Are you still in a wheelchair??

[Ham]

One more thing.. I think they made "Christianity" LOOK FUN. Yes, no more drably robed characters smacking the back of your hand with a ruler if you stepped the wrong way..

at least at first.

Sure- "you can be a christian, and have the time of your life, too". So appealing to the mind and body of man..

Look at loy. Just quote the bible, be able to put on a good show, and all is well. Just go ahead then, rape as much of the flock as you want to, all things are INDEED pure, you know..

Same for vic.

[Allan]

Can't speak for mj but we went through t.w.i. corps with 5 kids, all STILL happy and well adjusted,heck, now we're onto grandkids.

I don't get 'your logic' either Rascal..therein do we bless God and curse God ??

That is the hallmark of what type of 'cool waters' flows from the fountain.

[Allan]

Is MJ in a wheel chair ? What does that have to do with a person or are your 'true colors' starting to 'project through' temple lady..

Oh o.k. wait for the apology and the retraction !!

[Ham]

quote:

I just don't get that to some of you just about every evil thing that happens in the world somehow gets traced back to t.w.i.

You are right on a point here. Not every evil thing in the world gets traced back to TWI- just about sixty-five percent of the evil in MY life.

I still fight this ..... A guy pulls in front of me on the road.. "God, can't we do SOMETHING about this?" Almost EVERY STINKING TIME. At least now, it only takes me three seconds to flush that stinking thought down the drain.

And there's LOADS of other crap, so deeply imbedded, its taken YEARS to root it out..

[Tom Strange]

Allan said (me in bold):

quote:

I just don't get that to some of you just about every evil thing that happens in the world somehow gets traced back to t.w.i.

I haven't heard them talking about EVERY evil thing. In this thread they are talking about VERY SPECIFIC things THAT WERE traced to twi, yet you deny them...

No way have I defended their evil actions just because myself and MANY others walked away with great truths.

By your denial of the testimony of the people who were involved in the middle of it, you do

Most of us didn't have to go through the worst that some of us here did... but that doesn't stop us from being outraged and in alliance with them.... that's a far cry from blaming twi for everything

You attempt to minimize this whole thing through your exaggeration is pathetic...

[Ham]

Took me YEARS to figure out that if I didn't get the front parking spot at the store, that it wasn't because my car was possessed or something..

Years to evaluate doctrine that was practically useless..

Yes, I was able to sort SOME good out of it.

[Oakspear]

quote:

Is that a threat? or what?

Read what's written:

quote:

So, you know what, mj? You don’t know what you’re talking about and you should shut the hell up!

Why would you think that's a threat?

People who don't know what they're talking about, while they have a right to speak, would better serve themselves, as well as everyone else if they would keep their mouths shut

[Allan]

WordWolf you should know better than to imply that just because some of us are blessed and better off for our time in (former t.w.i.)

that by that we are defending VPW and other things that went on..that is not honest scholarship !!

[Ham]

And the guilt- of coming to grips that I MYSELF at times betrayed my own brothers and sisters in Christ- at the prompting of that putrid organization.

Sounded logical at the time, at least. And they were reading the Bible..

I have only been successful in resolving only about seventy five percent of this crap..

The rest, I have to live with. May NEVER resolve it.

[Ham]

"I got so blessed because of der vey"- ptooie.

I think not.

[Allan]

Oakspear..instead of calling me 'buckwheat' can you shorten it to 'bucko'..I like that much better !!

[Oakspear]

quote:

I just don't get that to some of you just about every evil thing that happens in the world somehow gets traced back to t.w.i.

Naw, most of it I trace back to Wal-Mart

[Oakspear]

quote:

Oakspear..instead of calling me 'buckwheat' can you shorten it to 'bucko'..I like that much better !!

How about Mr. Wheat?

[Tom Strange]

Allan, no one has tried to deny you your experience in twi, why do you insist on denying them theirs? ...simply because it doesn't match yours...

And some of the things that happened to these folks you can't just say "get over it"... there are deeper wounds than you know or can imagine and I think it's presumptuous of you to think you can know what they're feeling and how they should react...

Not everyone had the same experience as you...

I didn't have the experiences that these folks did, but I have the compassion to let them try to deal with them in the best way they know how... rather than to tell them they are wrong for handling things the way they have... I wouldn't know... I haven't been there... have you?

[Allan]

I sympathise but I won't be made to feel guilty for what happened to some of the unfortunate ones in t.w.i. anymore than any of you feel guilty for the starving millions in Africa,oh yeah..that's our fault to..

Maybe stop 'navel gazing' and start 'outward focusing'.

[Tom Strange]

Dude... what the heck are you talking about?

when... at exactly what point...please show me... where ANYONE tried to make YOU FEEL GUILTY for what happened to them???

You're freaking nuts man! Like I said, no one has denied you your wonderful wayworld memories... surely one of the things you learned while becoming the Christian that you are was COMPASSION (although I'll grant you that you probably didn't learn much about it in twi)...

You have your memories and focus... these folks are trying to deal with some pretty devastating stuff... and all you can think to do is tell them "outward focus" and deny their experiences... I don't want to know anything else about you... you can call yourself a Christian... but you sure don't act like Christ...

[Ham]

quote:

but I won't be made to feel guilty for what happened to some of the unfortunate ones in t.w.i.

Nope. It was just- your ABS at WORK.

I don't feel guilty about that either, but it sure p*sses me off..

[Ham]

MY abs paid for staff members to be used as PROSTITUTES.

MY abs paid for the mog's "love nest" (motorcoach).

MY abs paid for loy to get his kicks with two women at the same time..

Sorry, YOUR abs did too.

Current abs is used to cover this crap up..

SOMEBODY paid for the lawyer fees, the settlements.. at least THAT money stands a chance of going to good use..

Feel guilty? NO. Just mad as hell.

[WordWolf]

quote:

Originally posted by Allan:

I just don't get that to some of you just about every evil thing that happens in the world somehow gets traced back to t.w.i.

Allan,

I'm going to take that at face value-that is, that you honestly believe that is

what is happening here. So, having been here since before Y2K, I'll try to offer a bit

more perspective-perhaps it will help.

Nobody that I've seen is accusing twi of "every evil in the world". They're accusing

them of "every evil that happens in twi."

You see accusations of rape-not of people raped in Fortune 500 countries-but of people

raped in twi, often on grounds by the head OF twi (under more than one president.)

Nobody was told rape was an possibility in twi.

You see accusations of child molestation-not of children molested in a Montessori

school-but of children raped BY twi staff under twi auspices.

Imagine the shock to find out that child molestation was available in twi.

You see accusations of persecutions and witchhunts-not in Spain under Torquemada,

but by twi leaders acting in their capacity as leaders in twi.

Certainly, they didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition.

Leaders lied and stole, deceived, squandered "God's money" on personal luxuries,

diverted money FROM being used locally, isolated their followers from other Christians,

family, and most other people-except when it was time to get another class together.

Families were torn apart, people lived in fear that God would turn his back on them

if they disobeyed, and they were lied to and told other Christians were worthless.

Did I mention the rape and child molestation?

If not for the people who spoke up BEFORE, many of those same leaders would STILL be

in power.

If not for the speaking WE do, many other people might go along to some meeting, and,

next thing you know, be dragged into the same traps. I thank God I was spared all the

severe damage, and only received some of the error and hate.

No,

some people are not angry and bitter.

They are FURIOUS and filled with RAGE.

Is it an appropriate response?

Well, they're angry that people attacked the flock of God, molested children, raped

the sisters, and said it was GOD'S WILL FOR THEM TO COOPERATE.

Is that something worth getting furious over?

If not, you have no heart.

Some people need to heal in their own time.

How can you ask someone to "just get over" things like that? Some will heal fast,

some will heal slow.

I think you can see the point now.

quote:

No way have I defended their evil actions just because myself and MANY others walked away with great truths.

Some people here believe there were no truths in twi.

Many of us-some 60% of us here at the GSC, the place on the internet with the most

concentrated hostility about twi- believe at least SOME of the things were correct,

because we're still Christians. So we agree on either a few things or MANY things.

Few agree it was right for leadership to rape, molest, plagiarize, etc.

Those who believe there were truths point out that vpw and others LIED. They hid their

sources and said that THEY were the ONLY ones who held that truth, knowing that this was

a complete lie. They claimed it was a special connection from God to vpw that was the

source of that truth was a number of true, Godly, Christian authors whose work he

STOLE, slapped his name on, and dared to claim where originated by him.

So, those TRUTHS were surrounded with a shield of lies.

Those TRUTHS were not twi's truths. They were God's truths and were out in the world.

When they were found, they COULD have been scattered abroad. Instead, vpw carefully

gathered the information, repackaged it, then marketed it under his name, giving

out that himself was some great one.

Now, those TRUTHS were used as the packaging, and they were used to market a product-

and that product was twi. The product line included paying money for classes, books,

and programs. We were charged RETAIL at all times-despite the products all being

produced "in-house", keeping costs down AND twi didn't pay taxes since it was a

religion. The programs included the way corps- where people learned some good Bible

stuff at some points and served as a manual labour workforce-

and PAID CASH-MONEY to do the work!

FURTHER,

at all times, the leaders sat in the chief seats, were salaamed everywhere they went,

and that wasn't ENOUGH for them. They got to enjoy luxuries of every kind-and THAT

wasn't enough. They had to add rape and molestation on top of all that before they

said it was enough.

Then there are some who think that twi had NO truth-just lied and TOLD us that was

truth. The lies, corruption, luxuries, and unreported FELONIES become even more

offensive and obscene to them.

quote:

There is usually two sides to most stories !

If not more! There is a Japanese saying to the effect that

"the other side ALSO has another side."

quote:

Any 'innies' or 'lurkers' reading this, listen up..

You can leave t.w.i. a happy and well adjusted person and live an even more fulfilling life for you and your family.

You will not die or have any more evil happen to you than the next joey on the street.

Many of us left and still hold on to the truths learnt and are still moving forward with the things of God.

Now, THERE'S a statement I can endorse wholeheartedly,

although the "truths" I hold onto might be different than the "truths" you do.

Or they might be the same-you may be surprised.

It's times like this that I'm glad I never told twi everything I knew-

it's information I'm VERY glad lcm never got his hands on.

:D-->

[Ham]

quote:

MY abs paid for staff members to be used as PROSTITUTES.

Please note: in no way am I asserting that they were. Just that that is HOW THEY WERE TREATED.

These were human beings with feeling like you, for crying out loud..

[Ham]

My ex was (and still is) quite a "looker".

THANK GOD- we never were chosen to go on staff for any reason.