HA! I never realised this untill I just typed that.
All that "in the renewed mind, in the household" focuses on you and I. They totally minimize that agape is really about the unconditional love God has for us chillens (supposedly),the love OF God or eminating from God. Then it involves us imitating and reciprocating that love. (At least in terms of its usage in the Bible.) TWIt MOGS twisted it to mean that you could only love God while renewing your mind in the household. Once you left the household you not only couldn't have that love FOR God but God no longer loved you that way either. Not very unconditional is it? WOW! (Wool Over the Worlds eyes)
Good question, learning. These are the definitions as I remember them:
1. Love of and for God
became
2. Love of and for God in the rewnewed mind
became
3. Love of and for God in the renewed mind in manifestation
became
4. Love of and for God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the household
and I think there was even an extension of that, but my brain isn't working right now.
I believe shortly after I left they started back-tracking on the "in the household" part, but the damage had already been done. Unless they come right out and say "we've changed this..." people stay with the latest teaching and I doubt if they even realize the definition has changed.
I did a word study on this and it's nothing along the lines of what we were taught, imo. It's used of the men who "loved" the high places and other obviously unGodly uses.... Maybe it is just plain unconditional love since they would have loved the high seats even with all the evil and immoral egos and actions behind being able to sit in those seats.... hmmmm....
In contrast to agape, it seems that Eros love is something that makes us rise and strive and reach. Like strands of evolution. Like the act of somehow trying to be born again or saved. It has an ascending quality to it. A climbing, a leaping, if you will. There is a resistance to it (like gravity). We want to escape mortal limitations and enter into the kingdom of heaven, or some other experience of divine love. We want to leave mere conceptualization of this ultimate love, and know that we know that we know the love of God...and all that
Agape love seems the opposite. It is something we fall into. Something we relax to find. Something that is already there, as an ultimate ground. To be in it, has more of a descending quality. We descend, it descends. It takes less effort, and covers more territory. The opposite of climbing, it is the freefall into ever greater and greater depths of openness and spaciousness, if you will (which is often more frightening than climbing). And this freefall is said to cause a "splash" that ripples ever outward. ;)-->
I've heard it described as being more feminine, too, in that Agape falls down, wraps around and embraces us, rather than any sort of penetrating action or activity.
Like a descending dove, rather than a rising serpent
Like a new set of clothing
Like Jesus. He ascended in his struggles, his will, trying to accomplish things and improve himself and be better, and also descended, once the struggling was over, and allowed himself to "fall into place" in the world, regardless of his will.
in time, awareness of this ascension and descension happens simultaeneously. We rise and fall from breath to breath to breath.
Agape is not about control and competition, but about communion and cooperation. Effortlessly falling into place.
which involves perhaps one of the most frightening things of all to our mortal minds...surrender
The love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the prevailing household of the New Knoxville Cult of Cornfield Consciousness, as we faithfully send our 15 percent, blindly obey our leaders, and keep our mouths shut.
But really thanks for replying. I suppose what this will mean is that I should look into it more. Thanks for the remembering. But please don't stop the discussion on this. Each one adds something and brings our knowledge to a greater whole
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lindyhopper
Unconditional love.
the love of and for God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the household.
Don't think you are going to find that second one in any real scholarly theological writing.
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lindyhopper
HA! I never realised this untill I just typed that.
All that "in the renewed mind, in the household" focuses on you and I. They totally minimize that agape is really about the unconditional love God has for us chillens (supposedly),the love OF God or eminating from God. Then it involves us imitating and reciprocating that love. (At least in terms of its usage in the Bible.) TWIt MOGS twisted it to mean that you could only love God while renewing your mind in the household. Once you left the household you not only couldn't have that love FOR God but God no longer loved you that way either. Not very unconditional is it? WOW! (Wool Over the Worlds eyes)
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Cynic
My post on this page references some interesting material I came across on this.
The link should, but will not, send you to the particular post.
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Belle
Very interesting Cynic!
Good question, learning. These are the definitions as I remember them:
1. Love of and for God
became
2. Love of and for God in the rewnewed mind
became
3. Love of and for God in the renewed mind in manifestation
became
4. Love of and for God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the household
and I think there was even an extension of that, but my brain isn't working right now.
I believe shortly after I left they started back-tracking on the "in the household" part, but the damage had already been done. Unless they come right out and say "we've changed this..." people stay with the latest teaching and I doubt if they even realize the definition has changed.
I did a word study on this and it's nothing along the lines of what we were taught, imo. It's used of the men who "loved" the high places and other obviously unGodly uses.... Maybe it is just plain unconditional love since they would have loved the high seats even with all the evil and immoral egos and actions behind being able to sit in those seats.... hmmmm....
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sirguessalot
I've been fond of this word lately, all over again (now that some of the dogmatic dirt has rubbed off of it)
Here are a few interesting links on the subject, imo
Agape on wikipedia
Love on wikipedia
Agape Love by Haas
In contrast to agape, it seems that Eros love is something that makes us rise and strive and reach. Like strands of evolution. Like the act of somehow trying to be born again or saved. It has an ascending quality to it. A climbing, a leaping, if you will. There is a resistance to it (like gravity). We want to escape mortal limitations and enter into the kingdom of heaven, or some other experience of divine love. We want to leave mere conceptualization of this ultimate love, and know that we know that we know the love of God...and all that
Agape love seems the opposite. It is something we fall into. Something we relax to find. Something that is already there, as an ultimate ground. To be in it, has more of a descending quality. We descend, it descends. It takes less effort, and covers more territory. The opposite of climbing, it is the freefall into ever greater and greater depths of openness and spaciousness, if you will (which is often more frightening than climbing). And this freefall is said to cause a "splash" that ripples ever outward.
;)-->
I've heard it described as being more feminine, too, in that Agape falls down, wraps around and embraces us, rather than any sort of penetrating action or activity.
Like a descending dove, rather than a rising serpent
Like a new set of clothing
Like Jesus. He ascended in his struggles, his will, trying to accomplish things and improve himself and be better, and also descended, once the struggling was over, and allowed himself to "fall into place" in the world, regardless of his will.
in time, awareness of this ascension and descension happens simultaeneously. We rise and fall from breath to breath to breath.
Agape is not about control and competition, but about communion and cooperation. Effortlessly falling into place.
which involves perhaps one of the most frightening things of all to our mortal minds...surrender
my 2 cents
peace
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sirguessalot
ok,
if "heaven" is "high"
and "hell" is "low"
perhaps agape is the love that allows us to descend below even "hell," if you will
so we can learn to reach always ever further down
even as we reach up
if that makes any sense
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LG
That fits the TWI definition.
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Goey
Agape:
The love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation in the prevailing household of the New Knoxville Cult of Cornfield Consciousness, as we faithfully send our 15 percent, blindly obey our leaders, and keep our mouths shut.
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learning
Thanks Goey, that was just the one I remembered
:D-->
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learning
But really thanks for replying. I suppose what this will mean is that I should look into it more. Thanks for the remembering. But please don't stop the discussion on this. Each one adds something and brings our knowledge to a greater whole
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