From one extreem to the other

[Belle]

Matt 24:24

quote:

For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform great miraculous signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God's chosen ones.

And, in vee pee & craig's own words: the value of the counterfit is increased by its likeness to the original.

"deceivers and devil sirits will give you just enough truth to suck you in and then they hit you with the lies and they'll get away with the biggest lies they can"

They were telling us what they were doing. We just didn't listen.

[rascal]

Good point Belle, can you cross post this to the false prophet thread? (I don`t know how) :-(

I think that this has bearing on that discussion.

[Belle]

I'd be glad to. :D-->

[Second James]

Bramble...sorry it took me a few to reply to your question..as I check this about twice a week at times & this was a busy week for me.

When a person gets deceived (tricked, fooled..whatever you want to call it)...in any kind of trickery..there's one person KNOWING what will ultimately screw up the person they want to fool or deceive..TWI INC knew what they were doing in signing up people for the WC (for example)...what was in it for TWI...free labor? females to prey on? Ego trips to be satisfied? We could go on & on...what was in it for the WC signee??? Paid positions in the future? Ladder climbing possibilities....spiritual growth? We could go on and on...& in all fairness..many WC who did make it thru their years are proud of what they got from the WC training...they saw the downsides at times I'm sure BUT wanted the benefits promised.

Were they deceived? YES & NO Not being told of certain agendas by TWI left them to discover the atrocities..& in that vein..YES they were deceived...BUT NO in the area of benefits they definitely did receive. Were they victims? perhaps IF they got "ruined" attempting to jump thru the hoops required of them & couldn't do it...

We should own what we sign up for in life. My adventure in the TWImobile was one of ups & downs & I OWN UP TO what I fell for & attempt to forgive & move on..many many people have a super hard time forgiving & moving on in their lives because of the trickery of TWI..I feel for them honest. But there was NO GUN TO OUR HEADS...not that I recall...was there one held to yours or anyone's out there in Cyberspace?? JJ

[Belle]

A figurative gun, JJ.

A gun that said if I left the walls of Zion I would be a greasespot by midnight.

A gun that said I would die like the other people who died after rejecting TWI.

A gun that said "we will ruin your marriage, and we can do it" if I left.

A gun that said if I left I would be utterly alone in the world and that God would no longer be able to protect me.

A gun that I cowered away from everytime something did go wrong, even the least little bit, after I left.

A gun that said I would be possessed if I came onto the internet.

Yep, emotional, spiritual blackmail. Works just as well as a gun, imo.

[rascal]

James, that is NOT why I signed up for the way corpes....nor what many others had in mind either...

I applied for the way corpes because I was TOLD that if I really believed this stuff...that I really loved God.....that it would behoove me to learn to serve God to the best of my ability.

I was TOLD that the BEST way to accomplish this was to complete the corpes program....

GOD needed us ...God NEEDED us trained to be douloses, ... the way corpes was the BEST way......DAMN IT.... there was nothing mercenary or ladder climbing about it for most of us....just a desire to be a blessing to God and best be abpe to minister to people to make this world just a little better place......grrrr ....

Earnest, honorable, NOBLE ambitions....hijacked and utilized to do nothing more than service the apetite of twi.

James you deeply offend me with your assumptions concerning our motivations and your attempts to place blame on the people who`s hearts and motives were so pure....most of us never DREAMED dreamed that our efforts were being utilized by evil to masquerade behind...or to enable and support it.

We had no idea upon entering the way corpes that our sisters would be required to *minister* sexually to the leaders....our children would be required to submit to beatings while we stood by helplessly....our tithe that we gave freely and went without ourselves being used to buy toys for the leadership.....our time, our youth and our lives would no longer be our own....meerly resources to be squandered by evil men...AUUGH!

THANKFULL???? I think not grrrrr

[Bramble]

Well, James, there was the belief--shared by all the innies I knew in the 90s--that there was no protection outside the household of TWI. That devil spirits were everywhere, and we were who they were after. Dirty tops to your fridge could bring them into a believer's home, after all.Your walk had to be precise etc(heck, that was taught before the nineties.)

There was a good friend whose child was born dead after a difficult delivery--guess why? During the fog years they didn't ABS to TWI.

So while you can say no one held a gun to people's heads, fear was the motivator for not leaving during tough times. Years of responding to fear motivation, I might add. And don't forget--everything was tied to Bible verses,by the one True Ministry that brought us the Truth of the Word as it hasn't been known since the First Century. You think that wasn't confusing?

The one thing that nearly stopped us from leaving was the LC asking "What about your children? You'll be outside the hedge of protection."

I don't really know what exway people you are talking about, ones who take no responsibility for their actions while in the Way??? Perhaps you should give some examples.

We should own what we signed up for in life? Who, exactly, signed up for abuse? Who are you scolding?

I signed up for the more abundant life--Which I finally have a grip on now, having left that crap lifestyle and belief system(IMO)behind.

Fruit? Rotten fruit to gag on, sure. We ended up with lots of that via TWI.

[Second James]

Belle...your figurative gun didn't force you to remain did it?..in other words...you were told what you listed & by gosh you made a DECISION not to believe that crap & off you flew...NOT DECEIVED..not fooled or tricked & you prooved that what they said was a deception by your own decision not to believe such bunk.If you were fooled into believing that crap..you would still be an innie still lurking. I'm sure you own your decision to leave right?

Rascal (Is it Cathy?)Never said those were YOUR specific reasons for joining the WC..I too at one point nearly joined & passed on it for the choice of marrying a non WC!!..But my reasons were like yours & I too have a loving giving heart (sorry I offend you at times...sure don't mean to my dear)...I get your point about doing what you're instructed to do..sorta like joining the Army & following orders...& in that case..I can see where you di what you were told....I can identify to a slight extent having been a Twig leader under WC here in Indiana & being told what to do & how to do it...& yet many times I refused to do what I was told (afterall, you CANT JOIN THE WAY) LOLOLso I was free to "buck the leadership & did it frequently, as I had to chose what I believed in my heart of hearts many times instead of what some Nazi wacko was demanding that I teach or do. Ah,,its a free country & can damned well decide for myself what I will & will not do.

Thats what frustrates me so often about this forum...as many posters were WC and their experiences are from the WC "commanded" perspective..those of us not under that TWI thumb so to speak didn't HAVE to go that route under the scrutiny of the nut above us.

Just wish we could designate whether or not a certain poster was in the WC or not, as I think it would clarify alot of reasons for a particular perspective & different reply.

Thank you Rascal though for your honesty..I don't come here to offend, but I do have my thoughts as you DO have yours..AH God Bless America..where we can say what we think EH????

Hugs..

[Belle]

quote:

Belle...your figurative gun didn't force you to remain did it?..in other words...you were told what you listed & by gosh you made a DECISION not to believe that crap & off you flew...NOT DECEIVED..not fooled or tricked & you prooved that what they said was a deception by your own decision not to believe such bunk.If you were fooled into believing that crap..you would still be an innie still lurking. I'm sure you own your decision to leave right?

I get what you're saying, JJ. But it took years for me to get to the point of even questioning whether what they were teaching and saying was true or not. The figurative gun did force me to stay in the beginning when I started realizing something wasn't right. I thought what wasn't right was me - my commitment, my un-renewed mind, my lack of giving more than 15% of my income, my continued communication with my "unbelieving family".... - it took a really long time for me to get to the point of even considering that the gun was an illusion.

I own my decision to leave and I own my decision to get involved, get married and stay. I really do. I just think that either you are much less gullible, naive or just more bold than I and others who endured the beatings (figuratively and literally) and perhaps that's why you seem to belittle or dis-believe us when we tell you that for a time we didn't have a choice. Okay, you're gonna say we did - and we did - but we didn't see it and we sure didn't see it that way. As soon as we did, we did something about it. *shrug* Maybe it's just one of those things you can't really understand unless you've "been there".

[Second James]

Smart girl Belle...its like I told a person when talking about this same subject ......."once I stepped outside of the Way...THEN I could see clearly with my own eyes"..but while within the walls..your narrowed perspective doesn't allow you to think outside the box!

We're ALL guilty of being stupid (I submit)..but wise enough eventually to re-think it..once you're out in the fresh air! I am SUPER thankful to have shaken the Way dust off my feet & life!

The curse we can get rid of is the constant rememinder that as a victim, we're dumb & still dumber..& thats a lie....don't let that victim within you keep you on the Way's trash heap..tell it to go to hell..that you're God's kid & a smart one at that..smart enough to leave.

[rascal]

Fair enough James, I guess that you were a whole lot smarter than me.

I bought into it all. At 17 I believed what I was taught.

I was taught very early that if I wanted to grow with God, become effective as a valiant warrior in the spiritual battle....I must oney leadership first and formost.....the story of peter obeying Jesus in spite of the circumstances was drummed into my head....

I didn`t think I HAD a choice if I was to remain within the will of God.

I did terrible things for God, things that broke my heart ....because twi leadership said that THEY spoke for God and that GOD almighty himself required obediance in these matters.....

Stupid? Oh HELL yeah I admit it....but that doesn`t excuse twi from being very evil and taking advantage of our youthfull naevity.

I do not trust this group that manifested such evil....

I do not trust their interpretation of God`s will....

Frankly, it will be a long time if EVER I will even trust scripture again after having it utilized as the authority to enforce leaderships every base desire.

I HATE twi for what they manipulated us into doing for God.

[Allan]

I have just realized something and that is that being an 'International' at campus and h.q.

we probably felt differn't at things that went on as say compared to many of you who had to live in the 'midst' of it all.

When we got back to our respective countries we had to deal with the .... in our own backyards as anyone reading my threads would have seen.

For at times seeming 'insensitive' I sincerely apologise.(Must be the differn't brand of coffee I'm drinking !!)

Having said that,Selina and I have no regrets having had sold our house to go 'in-res'.

We learnt a lot, managed to avoid nearly all the .... going on in your guys backyards(twi)

and are still utilizing a lot of the good stuff to keep serving God to the best of our ability.

Bless you and LOVE YOU ALL !!

[rascal]

I believe that the second story occured in the late 90s.

I knew and cared for the family, but had been out for quite a while when this occured.

The details were relayed to me by someone who left long after I did.

[rascal]

I think that you nailed it Allan!

Probably the people that taught and blessed you were entirely different than the folks that bedeveled some of us....there were some OUTSTANDING teachers and ministers that were attracted to twi for a time....I agree that knowing and learning from some of them were a privelige.

[rascal]

Mstar, I guess that is why Jesus said .... by their *fruit* you will know them...

[Second James]

Rascal...I get it that you bought into the whole deal & I hert for you as well that you were affected so adversely & all in the name of God to boot. I sure pray that you can eventually go back to scripture as far as studying as I'm sure you still apply it in your life. I'm just SOOOOOOOOO thankful that people some l8 years ago blew the whistle loud enough for all to hear..as we sure "thought" we were onto something great..almost like Paul persecuting the Christians before Jesus blew the whistle on him!! Bless You Cathy!

[Second James]

Hurt is what I meant!! LOLOLOL