That supposedly dead pile of equine bones is still running classes, collecting "abundant sharing" and lauding men's opinions above the God they claim to worship.
Beat away, I say
Just a little joke for James there Oak. Hey beat away on the horse or anything else you want to. Cool by me. I do see his point though there is I'm sure enough in the archives to keep one busy for a lifetime, well almost but I'm sure enough to get the point anyway. You could just bump them up each day and save a ton of posting time for more fun things. Just a thought....
Well, if the poor, tired, dead (?) thing doesn't want any more of the beatings of a lifetime, perhaps it should quit running itself against my stick. Really- da*n thing keeps coming back, for more and more.
"See? I'm a kinder and gentler horse now.."
"You just oughta forgive me for stinking so bad.."
"If you just leave me alone, I PROMISE not to run anybody ELSE over.."
Reminds me of some of the old Twilight Zone episodes, or the old movie "It Came from Outer Space"..
Despite serious beatings, "It" refuses to die, and just keeps coming back again, and again, and again..
Sucker LOOKS dead, just lying there.. playing dead.. barely cracking an eyelid once in a while, just waiting for somebody to put down the club, and look the other way...
Probably will play dead for ANOTHER decade or so.. :)-->
I belieive there is no truth...just stories that folks have built belief systems arround. The Bible, Koran, LD Saints etc... I'v learned from my experiance with TWI to never ever, ever put all my aggs in one basket. I have a bumper sticker on my car that reads," God is to big to fit inside any one religion"....Bible included!
Yes perhaps I am wasting valuable time by posting, as I'm certainly NOT posting to shove this to the top.
Funny thing is..these "criminals" that rascal seems to think that I'm supporting are none other than you & I..I am encouraging each of us to love the other...I'm NOT advocating that you support the current TWI outfit & its manipulators...what I'm saying is...in spite of what TWI re-engineered the Bible to sound like & for us to believe...that its no reason to just dump the Bible...SITing..prayer...fellowshipping etc...just because the leaders are/were corrupt...what I'm saying is..I saw very few of the effects while "out on the field" (my home town fellowships etc) & i think this is cthe case for many who were not Way Corpse....there were good ggood loving people in our areas who are still good & loving with good intentions who we still need to love & reach out to..WHAT REALLY CHANGED IN US BACK IN THE 80'S?????? FEARS CHANGED US... fear that we were duped & fear that those who taught us were corrupt & yet I suggest that truth cannot be destroyed in spite of the sin nature of anyone who teaches or leads.
The dead horse many are beating isn't worth beating..there's NO upside to the negative accusations that are more than rampant than the truth found here about God REALLY loving us & being there for us in spite of the evil of "men"...
what I'm saying is...in spite of what TWI re-engineered the Bible to sound like & for us to believe...that its no reason to just dump the Bible...SITing..prayer...fellowshipping etc...just because the leaders are/were corrupt...
Once again, no one is taking the position that the bible should be dumped just because the leadership is corrupt. You've made your point and triumphed over a nonexistant position.
Hey James, it certainly is NOT you and I that we are denouncing here.......Oh HE__ no....that is the vilest of insult....*I* CERTAINLY wasn`t drugging or rapeing anyone, and I don`t believe that you were either .....
I wasn`t destroying anyone for non compliance with my sexual deviancy...I wasn`t stealing other mens wives, seducing abused teens, ...I wasn`t ordering abortions, I wasn`t covering for pedophiles,and wife beaters, attempting to protect them from prosecution by the authorities ....moving them to a new area to place them in a position of authority over unsuspecting believers....
I wasn`t extorting protection money from people in God`s name ...and then spending it on frivolities and shopping trips for the *good* girls.....I wasn`t destroying lives and families at a whim.....
These are just SOME of the crimes that we lay at the feet of the leaders of twi...starting at the top with vpw....and YES these were crimes perpetrated....by the vilest of criminals.
No James, that was not me....but that IS the twi that I am so vehemently outspoken about.
You n me James, we were just the poor dupes that covered for these monsters.
Our wholesom countenance, our love for God, our desire to please him....is what the leaders hid behind fella.....people saw US and assumed that twi was a safe wholesom place to be.....
Nope, the only crime *I* am willing to admit that I partook in.....was in supporting and enabeling these monsters to prey upon unsuspecting christians....they couldn`t have done it without us fools...
I think that your statement is about the nastiest slam against the posters here at gspot I have ever read....I don`t think any of us here did these things....and deeply resent the implication that our pure hearted intentions were anywhere close to being in the same catagory as the actions of these villains ....it is a deeply insulting allegation to make.
FEARS CHANGED US... fear that we were duped & fear that those who taught us were corrupt
I don't know. I think it is more that REALITY changed "us".
For me anyway. Not fear.
You MAY think the horse is dead, but.. looky HERE . This is pretty recent- how about 2004? And THE SAME bunch keeps trying to sell their devilish "ware"..
They would LOVE to sweep this thing under the rug.
This is not a twenty or thirty year old case, of someone not treating me nice or something. It seems to be a common habit of excusing evil:
(YES, YES, YES - he is HIGHLY supported by the Branch and state leadership - they packed his house up when he was arrested and visited him in jail and encouraged him on the phone etc...) He is in the ministry to this day.
I think things are far more serious than a few doctrinal "issues" or people just being a little mean.. I could live with that, go my separate way and say "so what".
As far as upside? Well how about the fact that our willingness to share the ugly detail about the viscious crimes committed against us has been instrumental in helping THOUSANDS of people in their decision to leave the bondage of an evil organization, One that to this day.... continues to steal, kill and destroy in GOD`S name.
Our beatings administered to said horse are having a profound impact on the ability of an evil group to continue to decieve unwarey people.
Hopefully, the deceased equine assaults will continue to be administered untill the evil of twi is no longer capable of affecting a single person.
It is always dissapointing when one doesn`t see or understand the profit of what we do....but that in NO way absolves us of our responsibility to warn others of the danger once we are aware of it ourselves.....
What twi is to the bible, Ron Pompeil is to hiding bald spots with spray paint...It seems apparent that twi impacted people's opinions of the bible, one way or the other...
"From one extreme to the other"...sure, a person's spiritual life is a very deep and personal thing...to find out that the wizard was just some guy standing behind a curtain has short circuited a lot of folks. Personally, I view twi as a continuation of the "traveling preacher tent shows" of a previous generation...the Elmer Gantry of the post VietNam era. At any rate, Veepee Wierwille impacted the Christian world about as much as a junebug impacts the front of an 18 wheeler going down the highway. It was only those of us who were directly involved (and were HAD)...that give a rats a$$ about any of it...
...Of course we are going to rip them a new one, every chance we get...because they deserve it and it helps other people to become knowledgeable of the facts and decide to hightail it out of there.
As far as the bible is concerned...that's a personal issue. twi cured me of "group think" forever...Is there a God?... my twi experience does nothing to encourage or discourage my faith...my faith is personal and it is strong.
On August 6th...Rascal stated the following: & I quote "these criminals that good ole James wants us to LOOOVE...f-cked up little kids"...basically I've been advocting all along that we love one another (which MUST make us all criminals) if thats the adgenda Rascal THINKS I'm advocating..it is Rascal's assumption..BUT not mine..I personally see no upside in speaking evil of people who have done others wrong...& yepper there was much evil done by these leaders...some of it criminal.
Then Rascal writes on August 8.."I think your statement is about the nastiest slam against the posters at GSC that I have ever read."
Rascal...YOU YOU YOU are the one that assumes I condone loving these higher ups..I don't condone it..(Read what I've posted)..I advocate loving each other and getting rid of resentments & bitterness via forgiveness. The dead horse beating will continue & yepper...they most defintely provide a warning for those who are still in or are contemplating joining..& I say hooooooray for you all in saving someone from these awful TWI leaders who are abusive.
I hope this clears up my position as I'm long gone from twi & ITS horrors ...I learned some things that are yet of value to me..but never condoned the BS that some of the WC tried to level on me & my family..
God Bless You Rascal for your comittment to see others delivered from this EVIL.. ;^) jj
You posted a question asking about our unwillingness to support twi in the same fashion we did 20 years ago. ....I in return attempted to explain why my pov had altered significantly (180 degrees) since leaving and why I could no longer in good conscience continue my former zealous support of that group.
Apparently, even as carefully as I have attempted to explain my antipathy towards these criminals and my lack of willingness to *love* or excuse these wolves.....you are still unable understand or apreciate my pov, oh well no problem....but honestly...Did you REALLY even want an answere to your question....was it a genuine query or an oportunity for you to critisize and complain about others who didn`t subscribe to your current set of opinions?
Perhaps we are simply all looking at diffferent pieces of the same puzzle, rather than viewing the over all picture.
I mean you no disrespect, I understand your pov, as it was once my own.
I can however completely disagree with your statement and yet still retain a respect for you personally.
but never condoned the BS that some of the WC tried to level on me & my family..
How sure can you be of this? Just wondering. Quite a few of the bastards were MASTERS of manipulation.. and meddling.
Maybe I'm not as intelligent as you.
I am just coming to grips with some of the crap they pulled off..and its been over six years since I've left in the joint.
How they worked over me and (now ex) wife, in particular.
They did stuff to make her look like she was nuts..
And did things to make me think they were the greatest thing since pizza hit the scene.
I'm STILL figuring out what happened.
Only thing I can say: if indeed you and your family got the good, and avoided the evil, hurray. Go your merry way, enjoy life.. ignore the stinking dead horse.. maybe to you, it is dead.
Uhhh James, the *slam* I was referring to is when you said that my critisizms when directed at twi were including you and me....read that entire post to understand whom I am speaking of please, and how and why I do not identify myself or you as in the same catagory with those I castigate.
Everybody has an agenda. Not that there's anything wrong in that..
But why is it: anybody who was "somebody" in the tree, would rather that we just "got over it". Like J*hn L*nn. "Just get over it, we got to leave with the gold.."
Maybe he wants us to buy some more "gold".
Some of us left with a bag of .....
Seems these allegations of evil intent and practice many times "offends" those- who were in charge.
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WhiteDove
Just a little joke for James there Oak. Hey beat away on the horse or anything else you want to. Cool by me. I do see his point though there is I'm sure enough in the archives to keep one busy for a lifetime, well almost but I'm sure enough to get the point anyway. You could just bump them up each day and save a ton of posting time for more fun things. Just a thought....
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WhiteDove
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Ham
Well, if the poor, tired, dead (?) thing doesn't want any more of the beatings of a lifetime, perhaps it should quit running itself against my stick. Really- da*n thing keeps coming back, for more and more.
"See? I'm a kinder and gentler horse now.."
"You just oughta forgive me for stinking so bad.."
"If you just leave me alone, I PROMISE not to run anybody ELSE over.."
Good grief- the darn horse is BEGGING for it.
Cripe- DIE already, sucker..
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Ham
Reminds me of some of the old Twilight Zone episodes, or the old movie "It Came from Outer Space"..
Despite serious beatings, "It" refuses to die, and just keeps coming back again, and again, and again..
Sucker LOOKS dead, just lying there.. playing dead.. barely cracking an eyelid once in a while, just waiting for somebody to put down the club, and look the other way...
Probably will play dead for ANOTHER decade or so..
:)-->
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WhiteDove
It's like a timex watch - It takes a licking but still keeps on ticking..... Eventually the lithium battery will die.
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Oakspear
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WhiteDove
You aren't getting married at one of those cult halftime wedding things are you?
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imbus
I belieive there is no truth...just stories that folks have built belief systems arround. The Bible, Koran, LD Saints etc... I'v learned from my experiance with TWI to never ever, ever put all my aggs in one basket. I have a bumper sticker on my car that reads," God is to big to fit inside any one religion"....Bible included!
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WhiteDove
Hey Oak your signature did you get the idea from this Dylan song? Just curious.
One More Cup of Coffee(The Valley Below)
Your breath is sweet
Your eyes are like two jewels in the sky.
Your back is straight, your hair is smooth
On the pillow where you lie.
But I don't sense affection
No gratitude or love
Your loyalty is not to me
But to the stars above.
One more cup of coffee for the road,
One more cup of coffee 'fore I go
To the valley below.
Your daddy he's an outlaw
And a wanderer by trade
He'll teach you how to pick and choose
And how to throw the blade.
He oversees his kingdom
So no stranger does intrude
His voice it trembles as he calls out
For another plate of food.
One more cup of coffee for the road,
One more cup of coffee 'fore I go
To the valley below.
Your sister sees the future
Like your mama and yourself.
You've never learned to read or write
There's no books upon your shelf.
And your pleasure knows no limits
Your voice is like a meadowlark
But your heart is like an ocean
Mysterious and dark.
One more cup of coffee for the road,
One more cup of coffee 'fore I go
To the valley below.
Copyright © 1975 Ram's Horn Music
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Oakspear
Yes WD, but I first heard it done by Chris Duarte
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Second James
Yes perhaps I am wasting valuable time by posting, as I'm certainly NOT posting to shove this to the top.
Funny thing is..these "criminals" that rascal seems to think that I'm supporting are none other than you & I..I am encouraging each of us to love the other...I'm NOT advocating that you support the current TWI outfit & its manipulators...what I'm saying is...in spite of what TWI re-engineered the Bible to sound like & for us to believe...that its no reason to just dump the Bible...SITing..prayer...fellowshipping etc...just because the leaders are/were corrupt...what I'm saying is..I saw very few of the effects while "out on the field" (my home town fellowships etc) & i think this is cthe case for many who were not Way Corpse....there were good ggood loving people in our areas who are still good & loving with good intentions who we still need to love & reach out to..WHAT REALLY CHANGED IN US BACK IN THE 80'S?????? FEARS CHANGED US... fear that we were duped & fear that those who taught us were corrupt & yet I suggest that truth cannot be destroyed in spite of the sin nature of anyone who teaches or leads.
The dead horse many are beating isn't worth beating..there's NO upside to the negative accusations that are more than rampant than the truth found here about God REALLY loving us & being there for us in spite of the evil of "men"...
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Oakspear
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rascal
Hey James, it certainly is NOT you and I that we are denouncing here.......Oh HE__ no....that is the vilest of insult....*I* CERTAINLY wasn`t drugging or rapeing anyone, and I don`t believe that you were either .....
I wasn`t destroying anyone for non compliance with my sexual deviancy...I wasn`t stealing other mens wives, seducing abused teens, ...I wasn`t ordering abortions, I wasn`t covering for pedophiles,and wife beaters, attempting to protect them from prosecution by the authorities ....moving them to a new area to place them in a position of authority over unsuspecting believers....
I wasn`t extorting protection money from people in God`s name ...and then spending it on frivolities and shopping trips for the *good* girls.....I wasn`t destroying lives and families at a whim.....
These are just SOME of the crimes that we lay at the feet of the leaders of twi...starting at the top with vpw....and YES these were crimes perpetrated....by the vilest of criminals.
No James, that was not me....but that IS the twi that I am so vehemently outspoken about.
You n me James, we were just the poor dupes that covered for these monsters.
Our wholesom countenance, our love for God, our desire to please him....is what the leaders hid behind fella.....people saw US and assumed that twi was a safe wholesom place to be.....
Nope, the only crime *I* am willing to admit that I partook in.....was in supporting and enabeling these monsters to prey upon unsuspecting christians....they couldn`t have done it without us fools...
I think that your statement is about the nastiest slam against the posters here at gspot I have ever read....I don`t think any of us here did these things....and deeply resent the implication that our pure hearted intentions were anywhere close to being in the same catagory as the actions of these villains ....it is a deeply insulting allegation to make.
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Ham
I don't know. I think it is more that REALITY changed "us".
For me anyway. Not fear.
You MAY think the horse is dead, but.. looky HERE . This is pretty recent- how about 2004? And THE SAME bunch keeps trying to sell their devilish "ware"..
They would LOVE to sweep this thing under the rug.
This is not a twenty or thirty year old case, of someone not treating me nice or something. It seems to be a common habit of excusing evil:
something der vey would rather you did not read, or even threaten you'd get "possessed" by doing so:
This is the short version:
I think things are far more serious than a few doctrinal "issues" or people just being a little mean.. I could live with that, go my separate way and say "so what".
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rascal
As far as upside? Well how about the fact that our willingness to share the ugly detail about the viscious crimes committed against us has been instrumental in helping THOUSANDS of people in their decision to leave the bondage of an evil organization, One that to this day.... continues to steal, kill and destroy in GOD`S name.
Our beatings administered to said horse are having a profound impact on the ability of an evil group to continue to decieve unwarey people.
Hopefully, the deceased equine assaults will continue to be administered untill the evil of twi is no longer capable of affecting a single person.
It is always dissapointing when one doesn`t see or understand the profit of what we do....but that in NO way absolves us of our responsibility to warn others of the danger once we are aware of it ourselves.....
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Oakspear
"Bring out your dead horses, *clang* bring out your dead horses *clang* bring out your dead horses"
"Here you go"
"I'm not a dead horse yet"
"What"
"Nothing"
"He said he wasn't a dead horse"
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GrouchoMarxJr
What twi is to the bible, Ron Pompeil is to hiding bald spots with spray paint...It seems apparent that twi impacted people's opinions of the bible, one way or the other...
"From one extreme to the other"...sure, a person's spiritual life is a very deep and personal thing...to find out that the wizard was just some guy standing behind a curtain has short circuited a lot of folks. Personally, I view twi as a continuation of the "traveling preacher tent shows" of a previous generation...the Elmer Gantry of the post VietNam era. At any rate, Veepee Wierwille impacted the Christian world about as much as a junebug impacts the front of an 18 wheeler going down the highway. It was only those of us who were directly involved (and were HAD)...that give a rats a$$ about any of it...
...Of course we are going to rip them a new one, every chance we get...because they deserve it and it helps other people to become knowledgeable of the facts and decide to hightail it out of there.
As far as the bible is concerned...that's a personal issue. twi cured me of "group think" forever...Is there a God?... my twi experience does nothing to encourage or discourage my faith...my faith is personal and it is strong.
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Second James
On August 6th...Rascal stated the following: & I quote "these criminals that good ole James wants us to LOOOVE...f-cked up little kids"...basically I've been advocting all along that we love one another (which MUST make us all criminals) if thats the adgenda Rascal THINKS I'm advocating..it is Rascal's assumption..BUT not mine..I personally see no upside in speaking evil of people who have done others wrong...& yepper there was much evil done by these leaders...some of it criminal.
Then Rascal writes on August 8.."I think your statement is about the nastiest slam against the posters at GSC that I have ever read."
Rascal...YOU YOU YOU are the one that assumes I condone loving these higher ups..I don't condone it..(Read what I've posted)..I advocate loving each other and getting rid of resentments & bitterness via forgiveness. The dead horse beating will continue & yepper...they most defintely provide a warning for those who are still in or are contemplating joining..& I say hooooooray for you all in saving someone from these awful TWI leaders who are abusive.
I hope this clears up my position as I'm long gone from twi & ITS horrors ...I learned some things that are yet of value to me..but never condoned the BS that some of the WC tried to level on me & my family..
God Bless You Rascal for your comittment to see others delivered from this EVIL.. ;^) jj
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rascal
I suppose we simply will have to disagree.
You posted a question asking about our unwillingness to support twi in the same fashion we did 20 years ago. ....I in return attempted to explain why my pov had altered significantly (180 degrees) since leaving and why I could no longer in good conscience continue my former zealous support of that group.
Apparently, even as carefully as I have attempted to explain my antipathy towards these criminals and my lack of willingness to *love* or excuse these wolves.....you are still unable understand or apreciate my pov, oh well no problem....but honestly...Did you REALLY even want an answere to your question....was it a genuine query or an oportunity for you to critisize and complain about others who didn`t subscribe to your current set of opinions?
Perhaps we are simply all looking at diffferent pieces of the same puzzle, rather than viewing the over all picture.
I mean you no disrespect, I understand your pov, as it was once my own.
I can however completely disagree with your statement and yet still retain a respect for you personally.
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Ham
How sure can you be of this? Just wondering. Quite a few of the bastards were MASTERS of manipulation.. and meddling.
Maybe I'm not as intelligent as you.
I am just coming to grips with some of the crap they pulled off..and its been over six years since I've left in the joint.
How they worked over me and (now ex) wife, in particular.
They did stuff to make her look like she was nuts..
And did things to make me think they were the greatest thing since pizza hit the scene.
I'm STILL figuring out what happened.
Only thing I can say: if indeed you and your family got the good, and avoided the evil, hurray. Go your merry way, enjoy life.. ignore the stinking dead horse.. maybe to you, it is dead.
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rascal
Gee Mr. hamm, and THIS could result in your going from one extreme to the other in your opinions and support of twi ??? Go figure.
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rascal
Uhhh James, the *slam* I was referring to is when you said that my critisizms when directed at twi were including you and me....read that entire post to understand whom I am speaking of please, and how and why I do not identify myself or you as in the same catagory with those I castigate.
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Ham
Yep Rascal..
Everybody has an agenda. Not that there's anything wrong in that..
But why is it: anybody who was "somebody" in the tree, would rather that we just "got over it". Like J*hn L*nn. "Just get over it, we got to leave with the gold.."
Maybe he wants us to buy some more "gold".
Some of us left with a bag of .....
Seems these allegations of evil intent and practice many times "offends" those- who were in charge.
Just a thought.. or a few.
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Belle
Ham, that's when I take that bag of ...., put it at their front door, set it on fire then ring the doorbell and run like h*ll!
:D-->
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