I think there was some of that going on. There wouldn't have been so much MOG worship had there not been the desire to have the MOGs approval of our lives.
Joyce Meyer talks a lot about giving your money to her ministry otherwise you won't get anything out of her ministry. I think she's kind of moggish (she has that midwestern maiden look with the tacky earrings). I went to see her in San Diego a few years ago, and I was taken back by her thoughts about giving to HER ministry. I know she has a few good things to teach, but the money thing really got to me.
I would agree with WayferNot on the $$ thing. But I do agree she has a message that can be very healing and she is straight to the point about stuff.
I was so blown away when a local church gave me (for free!) 3 different teaching series without asking for anything. All 3 were nicely packaged, even came with some discussion/workbook type handouts as well.
Oh and one of the guys that wrote "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" also has written one called "Tired of Measuring Up" which has been an interesting read. That goes along with the approval addiction.
I enjoy Joyce Meyer when I catch her on TV. I find her easy to listen to... humorous and self-depricating... and I can take little bits of her message to heart, even if I don't agree with all of her doctrine. There is almost always a practical side of her message that I like.
As for asking for money... I've heard her talk about the need for giving, but I've never heard her stress HER ministry and HERS alone, but then again, I'm not an avid follower, either. Just catch her occassionally. But what preacher doesn't ask for money? And if you think what she's teaching is helping you, then in my opinion, she has a right to ask you to help her keep it going. A workman is worthy of his hire and all that.
Sorry... didn't mean to derail with that last post...
I think Approval Addiction is a good term that pretty accurately describes the track we were on in twi... you are approved before God (and the mogglets) if you prove yourself a workman of the Word. Today, that means you are approved if you come to fellowship. Tomorrow that means you are approved if you take the Foundational class. Later it means the Intermediate, Advanced, and Collateral Classes. Then, it means the WIBP and AdvClass Specials, and the ROA, and WOW, and Corps... and if you ABS enough, and if you do exactly everything your leadership tells you to do, the way they tell you to do it when they tell you to do it, if they are in a good mood when you do it.
We lived and died by their approval, because we equated it with God's approval.
And we conditioned ourselves so that, unless we received constant assurances and approval, we thought we MUST be screwing something up. (after all, they were pretty quick to tell us how much we screwed up)
And at what point did getting THEIR approval become more important than the approval of our family and loved ones, ESPECIALLY our spouse?
I, too, like Joyce Meyer, but, like Highway I don't listen to her all that much, so I haven't heard the requests for money. I have sent money to her and I get a magazine every so often, but I like how practical and logical her teachings are.
BTW, D*ttie Moneyhands gave me a Joyce Meyer book shortly before I left TWI. Now tell me...what would happen if my HFC had found out I was reading a Joyce Meyer book on my own without having gotten a copy from D*ttie? Hmmmmmmm.......
Maybe that's why I never climbed that high up on the knarley waytree...I was very aware of the climate of "men pleasing", and I resented the hell out of it. When I went into residence in the 10th corps, the place was full of asskissers, vying to be noticed. Living in the eyes of other people was the standard operating method in twi. I always thought that if God was choosing his leaders, then It wouldn't matter if ANYONE knew who I was. I watched as certain people "rose to the top" with their gregarious personalities and their adept know how at smootching the right butts...voila, limb leader!
No thanks...none of that for me.
A number of years ago, I met this old farmer. He was wearing raggedy overalls, was missing a few teeth and was not overly articulate...As we talked, he looked me in the eye and said "I ain't got much, and I ain't much to look at...but I kiss no man's foot!"...he smiled, winked and walked away with a gait in his walk that only a free man feels.
"I ain't got much, and I ain't much to look at...but I kiss no man's foot!"...he smiled, winked and walked away with a gait in his walk that only a free man feels.
And what a wonderful feeling it is! :D--> Thanks Groucho!
I think a big part of what confused us, Mr. H, was love. We were trying to live what we were taught. Leadership, however, right up to ol' VP, was trying to take advantage of our love. It wasn't mutual, which is how love should work. It was imbalanced, which is how abuse works.
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Nottawayfer
I think there was some of that going on. There wouldn't have been so much MOG worship had there not been the desire to have the MOGs approval of our lives.
Joyce Meyer talks a lot about giving your money to her ministry otherwise you won't get anything out of her ministry. I think she's kind of moggish (she has that midwestern maiden look with the tacky earrings). I went to see her in San Diego a few years ago, and I was taken back by her thoughts about giving to HER ministry. I know she has a few good things to teach, but the money thing really got to me.
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smurfette
I would agree with WayferNot on the $$ thing. But I do agree she has a message that can be very healing and she is straight to the point about stuff.
I was so blown away when a local church gave me (for free!) 3 different teaching series without asking for anything. All 3 were nicely packaged, even came with some discussion/workbook type handouts as well.
Oh and one of the guys that wrote "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" also has written one called "Tired of Measuring Up" which has been an interesting read. That goes along with the approval addiction.
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TheHighWay
I enjoy Joyce Meyer when I catch her on TV. I find her easy to listen to... humorous and self-depricating... and I can take little bits of her message to heart, even if I don't agree with all of her doctrine. There is almost always a practical side of her message that I like.
As for asking for money... I've heard her talk about the need for giving, but I've never heard her stress HER ministry and HERS alone, but then again, I'm not an avid follower, either. Just catch her occassionally. But what preacher doesn't ask for money? And if you think what she's teaching is helping you, then in my opinion, she has a right to ask you to help her keep it going. A workman is worthy of his hire and all that.
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TheHighWay
Sorry... didn't mean to derail with that last post...
I think Approval Addiction is a good term that pretty accurately describes the track we were on in twi... you are approved before God (and the mogglets) if you prove yourself a workman of the Word. Today, that means you are approved if you come to fellowship. Tomorrow that means you are approved if you take the Foundational class. Later it means the Intermediate, Advanced, and Collateral Classes. Then, it means the WIBP and AdvClass Specials, and the ROA, and WOW, and Corps... and if you ABS enough, and if you do exactly everything your leadership tells you to do, the way they tell you to do it when they tell you to do it, if they are in a good mood when you do it.
We lived and died by their approval, because we equated it with God's approval.
And we conditioned ourselves so that, unless we received constant assurances and approval, we thought we MUST be screwing something up. (after all, they were pretty quick to tell us how much we screwed up)
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Ham
The troubling thing to me about all of this..
How in the world did we (I) get to the place that we felt that their approval had any real value?
And when we reached that point, why was the illusion so powerful that we:
Disregarded shear evidence that said approval was not worth a crap..
Ignored the fire-engine red sins, or even crimes of those giving approval, or justified them with supposed biblical excuses..
or couldn't see that we were not inferior to "them" in any way, shape or form?
Personally, I lived for said approval, and just as desperately tried to avoid the threat of dissaproval.
I think this is something of a spiritual nature.
People trying to take the place of the Almighty.. as if their opinion has equal worth.
Friggin bastards.
I can tell you partly what it took for me to wake up.
Trying to seek approval from a Limb coordinator with the mental accuity of a twelve year old. His attempts at giving "reproof" was just a laughable..
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Belle
And at what point did getting THEIR approval become more important than the approval of our family and loved ones, ESPECIALLY our spouse?
I, too, like Joyce Meyer, but, like Highway I don't listen to her all that much, so I haven't heard the requests for money. I have sent money to her and I get a magazine every so often, but I like how practical and logical her teachings are.
BTW, D*ttie Moneyhands gave me a Joyce Meyer book shortly before I left TWI. Now tell me...what would happen if my HFC had found out I was reading a Joyce Meyer book on my own without having gotten a copy from D*ttie? Hmmmmmmm.......
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GrouchoMarxJr
Maybe that's why I never climbed that high up on the knarley waytree...I was very aware of the climate of "men pleasing", and I resented the hell out of it. When I went into residence in the 10th corps, the place was full of asskissers, vying to be noticed. Living in the eyes of other people was the standard operating method in twi. I always thought that if God was choosing his leaders, then It wouldn't matter if ANYONE knew who I was. I watched as certain people "rose to the top" with their gregarious personalities and their adept know how at smootching the right butts...voila, limb leader!
No thanks...none of that for me.
A number of years ago, I met this old farmer. He was wearing raggedy overalls, was missing a few teeth and was not overly articulate...As we talked, he looked me in the eye and said "I ain't got much, and I ain't much to look at...but I kiss no man's foot!"...he smiled, winked and walked away with a gait in his walk that only a free man feels.
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Belle
And what a wonderful feeling it is!
:D--> Thanks Groucho!
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shazdancer
I think a big part of what confused us, Mr. H, was love. We were trying to live what we were taught. Leadership, however, right up to ol' VP, was trying to take advantage of our love. It wasn't mutual, which is how love should work. It was imbalanced, which is how abuse works.
Regards,
Shaz
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
groucho
what a wonderful story about the farmer!
:)-->
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