You see you have plan to leave and that the here and now step
But where do you go next
This is a place of fellowship but one might need one on one fellowship with people here by Email or there may be some who live close to you that you can visit from time to time
Plus there are many loving churches out there
Xways groups are good but you may not be ready for them but most are good
I would say a place you have no links (like a church) can help you found loving people to talk if needed
the thing I am try-ing say do not lose your love for God and his son
I do not know what is best for you but find a loving place to help you even if its just having drinks with an person from here that lives close to you or a friend outside the Way
I think Lindy makes some great points about it being YOUR decision. When I left, it was without any drama at all. My attendance at fellowship got less and less frequent until I was just gone. I didn't hate anyone or have any desire to pick fights. It was just the right thing for me and my family. My wife and I are very happy and the kids are thrilled to be out of Way Prison.
Your husband is afraid that there is "nothing out there for him." It just depends on what you're looking for in a fellowship.
Are you looking for a bunch of people who all agree on every point of doctrine? I daresay you don't have that in The Way right now. In fact, there never was a time when everyone agreed on EVERYTHING. Just look at the disparity of beliefs concerning sex outside of marriage, and it's clear that there were disagreements on major points of doctrine right along.
Do you want a place where most of the people agree on most points of Biblical interpretation, like 4 crucified, speaking in tongues, etc.? Then check out the offshoot groups. There are some big ones that have classes and big meetings, and smaller ones at the state and local levels.
Or are you most concerned with finding people who love God, and want to lovingly help others? Is "walking in love" the most important part of doctrine in your family? Check your local churches. I daresay there are plenty that have done the love thing better than TWI, and for many more years. Don't discount the rest of the body of Christ. They don't discount you.
I know exactly how your husband feels about there not being fellowship/good teaching outside twi. That's what I struggled with the most when I parted company with the organization.
There are plenty of other fellowships run by exway folks, and there are churches if you can look past the trinity teachings and don't worry about every single word spoken there being "accurate." Love and fellowship don't require agreement on everything in the Bible.
I think JustThinking and Shaz both make very good points.
Especially since you still have other family members in, backing off slowly might do less to jeopardize your relationship with them than a big, dramatic confrontation or shoving the GS Web site URL under their noses. When I was a committed innie, if anyone had done either to me I'd have gone right into the defensive mode.
Like Belle's husband, I would have said, "Any organization run by people will be imperfect, because people are imperfect," and I would have disregarded the criticism of leadership's behavior.
If it's the corruption that bothered you, rather than the doctrine, one of the offshoots might be a "safe place to land." For some people these offshoots have been helpful in the transition from twi to some other form of fellowship. Others like the offshoots when they check them out, and they stick around.
Of all the offshoots I'm aware of, CFF, so I hear, retains much of the doctrine of PFAL but isn't afraid to reexamine it. Its leaders don't want to repeat the mistakes/wrongs of twi. If you're near HQ, CFF's HQ isn't that far from you. I know both its founders, and they're good men.
I don't recommend Chris G's group (former bus driver for VPW), for many reasons. A lot of people like CES (JAL's group), but I can't get past their promotion in the past of Momentus training (and their failure to renounce it today) or their "personal prophecy" doctrine.
Or you can be like me. You can suddenly discover that you're quite capable of reading the Bible and seeking fellowship wherever you find it without joining any group.
Whatever you decide, I wish you and your husband well.
Thank you all for your words, and most of all, I will not forget God, or His son. That is really what it is all about, being able to "remember" the Lord, without tainted images. I am striving the find this balance in our lives again or for the first time...
Just this morning my husband sadly said, "I love the people and fellowshipping." I said I love them too, but I don't even agree with some doctrine....and then I hit him with the hammer about Doc V and his escapades. He said, "so are you going to tell me any worse stuff like he cut limbs off and sent them to the 4 corners...?" (chuckling in shock) Then he said other funny stuff, so he doesn't get mad at me, he's just trying to sort this stuff out..can't understand how his upbringing had flaws (even though his parents raised an excellent man, to love God first and love his family.) I don't think I am interested in any offshoots, I have problems with any Dr followers and groups that will moan about the Way all day. Church to him sounds like such a turn-off totally, like selling out to the devil himself, and any of you raised in the Way, you know how that "church" sounds....it scares him half to death! So, discussions, and more dicussions are pending...I have a feeling this will be a slow process.
Herbiejuan-Gs wouldn't let me reply, but NO, I am not [edit**] ,FYI. Thanks for the offer.:)-->
I pray everyday, that God will guide my steps and that I am walking uprightly.
So,here is another question posed to me from some "innies". Why leave when everything is "good"now, nobody in your business, LCM gone, no more yelling, a new class out (video)soon, love coming back, you love your fellowship, the manifestations......?" Aside from "no more corruption", which who knows that answer, shoulda left then heh? But we didn't,we were ignorant, ok, so lets say they are trying to be the Biblical Research Ministry, we all thought we were involved in now? Does that mean we should stay..? I can't listen to another teaching from the previous 2 administrations, or on their works... I am rambling now, forgive me.
So,here is another question posed to me from some "innies". Why leave when everything is "good"now,
I gave that a lot of thought. My conclusion was that it seemed good when I got in too. But it wasn't. Not AT ALL. So why should I trust them now? Fool me once...
The Way promotes a "how could I leave?" mentality. To me, the real question is why do they deserve to have a you and a man like your husband? What have THEY done to earn your time, love, financial support, etc.? If any group is asking so much from people they should EASILY be able to produce a huge and VERY SPECIFIC list of what they do for YOU.
He is not sure there is anything else out there...for him..
Most of us have either heard or experienced this belief before. In my opinion it is a fear that comes from years of indoctrination and false teachings. TWI does not have a corner on anything at all, except upon the lives of those that allow them to have it.
TWI wants you to think "there is nothing else out there". But, if it is clearly thought through, this myth can be rather easlily be dispelled.
"There is nothing else out there" comming from someone raised in TWI is simply a reflection of TWI's indoctrination. However, for clarity we should finish that statement since it is kind of incomplete.
1. There is nothing else out there that can give me the rightly divided word.....
Didn't Wierwille teach the keys to us so that we didn't have to have someone tell us what the Bible meant? Why then did folks abandon these good basic keys in the 70's/80's and allow TWI do the so-called research for everyone with no questions asked? Besides there many many places out there that do allow questions and won't punish you for asking them.
2. There is nothing else out there where I can be with like minded believers.....
Likemindedness is highly overrated. If it's doctrinal stuff, anyone can find a church or a fellowship where others agree on the major points.
But, how important is it for everyone to believe that that there were four crucified with Christ and not 2, or that Peter denied Jesus 6 times instead of 3? -- Trivial stuff that is just that ..... trival. These are just arguing points that do not affect real faith and practice. There are thousands of places out there where you can share friutfull fellowship with others if you can let go of the "way brain" and the "I have all the answers" mindset that most of us inherited from TWI. What you won't find is a whole lot of places like TWI that make you tow the line and swallow stuff hook line and sinker. Stay away from these.
Of course many folks became comfortable having an organization like TWI think for them. Tell them what to think and what to do ..... So, it may be a bit uncomfortable at first to be allowed to think and decide for yourself - but ultimately quite rewarding.
3. "There is nothing else out there that can fulfill me."
Being truly fulfilled (spiritually) comes from within and from a relationship with God, and should not be dependant upon a church, an organization, or another person. For most, TWI has been more of a hinderance than a help - with it's legalism, closed minedness and stupid doctrines designed to control and make folks dependant upon them. You don't need another place like that. There is freedom in Christ - not bondage.
Rest assured that God has not limited himself to The Way International. He is God and HE is everywhere.
And the ole VP use to teach that temptation is now between what is good and what is best for his kids after they graduated from his class.
It is good they have lightened up on the surface, but best would include contacting all the innocent they accused and ran out of Zion on a rail. Its good they are not so controlling, but best would be to put as much if not more effort into putting families back together they ripped apart.
Is it best that many of the same leaders that climbed to the top kicking and scratching and ripping the lives of others are still in positions of responsibility?
What has changed is delivery and not the message! Rather than screaming and spitting you are evil, its delivered with a sickening sweet southern accent. " I am sowwwwwy you are evil!"
I understand how you all feel about checking churches out. I felt the same way. I got into twi as a teen and left in my thirties.
I was scared to death to try a church. The first couple of times I went I did it for the kids and it was ok. The sermons didn't effect me one way or another but the kids loved it.
Then I went to a church that really hit my heart. The first time I went I balled like a baby. Everything hit me like a ton of bricks. These people showed the love that I saw when I first started with twi and the fellowship with them was wonderful. The kids really loved this one too.
They had a youth pastor that when I went to get my daughter who was in high school at the time, I couldn't believe the response the kids were giving.
The youth pastor was so motivating you would not even had heard a pin drop. Not a muscle moved. There were about fifty teens there. It was so electrifying to see kids so in tune.
One day after church my daughter came to me crying and I asked her what was wrong. She cried, I just love this church and the people!!!!
I was sorry that we left that church as we had to move away.
I've tried a couple of more churches, some good some not so good. There were two other churches in that I did find that were just as close as the other one.
The church I go to now has a pastor that is so nonjudgemental. And is very inspiring and motivating.
Sure these churches don't teach everything I thought was the truth. I have found that most things I thought were the truth were wrong anyways and what I thought was really important was not all that important.
It was I that was being judgemental of these wonderful people.
I tried one of the offshoots but was not impressed with them. I didn't like some of the new stuff they were presenting. I felt that they were trying to be really different from twi but their set up was too similar. Plus the teachings didn't do anything for me.
Thanks Goey for that thorough scope, I will show that to hubby... your right about the doctinal trivial stuff not affecting faith and practice, I needed to hear that because I was an arguer of every "jot and tittle". I still hold true to the Words integrity though.....but it is not what I want my relationship with Christ to be about.
Wing- my husband said today that to look for an apology from theVey won't happen. It is not allowed by the "lawyers"(so he was told) So hurt and destruction of many families doesn't deserve an apology because they can get sued? Where is WWJD in that? I don't think God would have them tight lipped if they really were standing for Him, because after all, wouldn't God take care of them if they righted all wrongs? He is their sufficiency, right?
Don't be surprised if the people that you think are so loving turn out to be not so loving when you leave. Who I thought were my best friends weren't the friends I thought they were. My best friend was the one that turned on me and told everyone I was possessed.
The problem with that though was everyone had known me for years and knew I wasn't so they all ended up at my house one evening asking me what happened. When they were their people from twi came storming in my house and told them to leave. Well you can imagine what their response was. A lot of people in that area left because of it. I just wanted to leave quietly but twi wouldn't let it be quiet.
I know they say it has changed. I have a very hard time believing that. As you can see some people that just left even a year ago still had problems with twi. That was just a year ago. They can change the clothing on the outside but they can't change whats on the inside.
Their hearts are hardened from years of evil. People that are movitivated for the wrong reasons.
I know its scarey to even think about leaving. But really when you do leave it will be like walking in fresh air after being in a small room with people that hadn't bathed for a long period of time. It is very refreshing. And very healing. Sure it may hurt for a while but the feeling of being on your own and not being a kid anymore is very invigrating. You can do whatever you want without asking for permission and don't have to feel guilty if you don't go to twig because you want to spend time with your family.
And you will find that God is more loving than what you realized and that what you were told about if you leave that the hedge of protection from God won't be there and something bad is going to happen to you is BS. Heck even if you don't abundant share God is still there for you. God is so much bigger than this. Twi just told these things to keep people in fear of leaving.
So in simple words, it is not as scarey to leave twi as one may think. Try it you may just like it.
Hahhaaa, good one Wing (mind the nicname?), I will be sure to use that one!
Thanks for the info Vickles, i really feel that their is "more than this" out there. I really do. I have done some social stuff in some churches through other groups and was Very impressed with some of the prayers, (best I have heard in a long time)and their giving hearts. And this was a year ago......that started my yearning for more... of course I had to cringe when they ended the prayers with "in your name". I still have to rethink that one.
I would prepare to help your husband. He has alot of FEAR cause of the FEAR INTIMIDATION in the doctinal and practical areas of the Way doctrine. He is going to feel very responsible for his decsions and will weigh things heavily....myheart goes out to him and you...
Thanks,and I am sorry about what happened to you. I posed the question to my hubby about "would he leave me if I left the Way?"
He would not, I believe totally, but he knows that others didn't behave so admirably. It is unfortunate,but it seems that people got married with only One thing in common....the ministry, that's all. And then, when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, they elevated the commitment to the Way above their commitment to the other(which was a commitment made before God). I didn't realize that many were standing approved "before theWay" instead of God. Go figure.
I know why--because there is no gaurantee it won't get bad again. It's not like they've made any doctrinal changes. It all depends on whatever leadership you have and how they behave.
I wouldn't raise my children in such an unstable group, raise them to think TWI was all there is, only to have some crap leader stick it too them at some future time.
It's been awhile since I've left, but I was in for about 20 years. I understand where y'all are coming from. Like they always said in TWI, it's a way of life, but it's because they make it your whole life. I was lonely after I left for good (left a couple of times for a short time before), because besides going to work, there really isn't any life outside of the ministry. Absolutely everybody in your social circle is in. When you leave, you are M&A and all your "friends" are instructed no longer to be your friends as "your devil spirits may infect them."
But life goes on and if you stay strong (remember you still have God on your side outside of TWI), you can see that the more than abundant life is that much more abundant without the scrutiny of TWI. It was hard to find a church that I wanted to go to, because I would keep comparing the teaching to what I learned before. But, as was taught in the old Orientalism class, I just say, "Mind don't think that, think like this." -->
My children and I are extremely happy now. And I even have something that I was told I could never have; a pet. But not just any pet, I have a cat. At least during the early days, it was taught NEVER to have a cat as they can be possessed faster than any other being. That is why witches use them. (Never did hear any scripture back-up on that one.) Oh well, just rambling now.
We have been out for almost 7 years now and have a FANTASTIC relationship with God. Yes, we lost friends, but we have learned so much since then that has supported our decision to leave. One of the (many) reasons why we left was that we could not continue, in good conscience, to tithe to a corrupt organization.
Think about it...I wrote a check this morning and tithed $1,600...with GREAT JOY. For one thing, I know that our church will use part or all of that money to help others in our church who are sick or needy. I know because when we needed help, without asking, the church gave us money - a lot - and with NO strings attached. I know that part of the money will be used to continue to build our library so that people can build their own relationship with God. I know that part of the money will be used to help missions around the world bring people to Jesus Christ - even if it is not our church. MOST churches are excellent stewards of God's money.
How much have you ever received from the way in your time of need?
Believe me, your relationship with God will grow infinitely stronger beginning the moment you leave the bondage, corruption and control.
I left 2 1/2 years ago. I had a boyfriend who remained in. We kept dating for 4 months after I left, but I kicked him to the curb because of his rotten and offensive conservative attitude. (I am not saying all conservatives have rotten and offensive attitudes.)
I left without telling anyone. I sent an email to my FC and BC and told them that I would no longer be attending fellowship. I also told them that I wanted no contact--no phone calls, visits, or emails. I got one from the BC telling me how sad it was and asked if she contributed to it. I never answered her.
I was afraid to make that decision for several months. My main fear was "Where will I go?" God had more than taken care of me. I have received great healing in my heart from the pain I experienced from twi. I felt betrayed by them because of giving them almost 20 years of my life and learning they hid so much evil.
Churches can be a great place to decompress. You may have to go to a few before you find one that suites you. You will have a lot of things to deal with in your mind when you go (i.e., trinity), but the love there is real. I've seen many churches who truly care about their congregation and their community. That speaks volumes to me.
Maybe you don't want to go to church. I tried a few offshoots when I left, but it was twi-lite for me. I couldn't hack it.
Whatever you do, you will be happier to be out of a religion (yes, twi IS a religion) that is a big farce. You will start to discover more about yourself and won't be so uptight about use of words or other anal things like that. :P-->
So,here is another question posed to me from some "innies". Why leave when everything is "good"now, nobody in your business, LCM gone, no more yelling, a new class out (video)soon, love coming back, you love your fellowship, the manifestations......?" Aside from "no more corruption", which who knows that answer, shoulda left then heh? But we didn't,we were ignorant, ok, so lets say they are trying to be the Biblical Research Ministry, we all thought we were involved in now
Bliss here is an answer to what to tell the innies about leaving now- The reason things are good now is because the current leadersh+ has consistently lied and withheld the truth concerning VPW, LCM, lawsuits (that could bankrupt the ministry), And other sexual indiscretions by in the field WC that have hurt believers.
The Ministry appears to be in total denial of the facts and truths concerning its leaders, and the genuine sources of its foundational teachings. Add to this fact that it has not apparently had a truly original thought or insight on the Word in years. It Does not appear to be a genuine Research Ministry- because that should encourage questions, discussions and differences of opinion and honest truthful apologies and explanations from the top down as growth occurs- Has that ever happened in the past and is it happening now? The only apparent reason for its continued existence is provide a safe haven for leaders who cant do anything else- thus they provide a cocoon where believers can be comfortably numb a
quote:
"happy little world" … They just love their fellowship and the Word, and love going
The only thing that allows it to continue is its foundational belief that must be accepted without question: TWI is the only genuine and true fellowship and that all others are false. This belief is the root cause of the fear that bound me before and after I left and binds your husband and others today.
God is simply too big for that and we are simply too small.
A few biblical examples in the old testament - Balaam was a prophet- he was not an Israelite- God’s chosen people at the time. What he spoke came to pass.
Melchizedek king of Salem was the priest of the most high God who blessed Abraham and who in turn tithed to this priest.
Moses lived with and served and married the daughter of Jethro the priest of Midian. These were the believers Moses fellowshipped with when God first spoke to him!
Genuine fellowships are established by groups of people who seek to follow God in their hearts- Not with their organizations, in fact organization seem to do more to destroy genuine fellowship than build it in my opinion.
Then again why rock their happy world – Ignorance Is Bliss – while you are ignorant anyway
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year2027
God first
Beloved bliss
God bless your loving heart
I have been out a long time
I have learn to look for the next step
You see you have plan to leave and that the here and now step
But where do you go next
This is a place of fellowship but one might need one on one fellowship with people here by Email or there may be some who live close to you that you can visit from time to time
Plus there are many loving churches out there
Xways groups are good but you may not be ready for them but most are good
I would say a place you have no links (like a church) can help you found loving people to talk if needed
the thing I am try-ing say do not lose your love for God and his son
I do not know what is best for you but find a loving place to help you even if its just having drinks with an person from here that lives close to you or a friend outside the Way
Gress Spot people are all over the world
But you must talk it over together
I just do not know what elst to say
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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JustThinking
bliss,
I think Lindy makes some great points about it being YOUR decision. When I left, it was without any drama at all. My attendance at fellowship got less and less frequent until I was just gone. I didn't hate anyone or have any desire to pick fights. It was just the right thing for me and my family. My wife and I are very happy and the kids are thrilled to be out of Way Prison.
JT
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shazdancer
Dear bliss,
Hi, and welcome!
Your husband is afraid that there is "nothing out there for him." It just depends on what you're looking for in a fellowship.
Are you looking for a bunch of people who all agree on every point of doctrine? I daresay you don't have that in The Way right now. In fact, there never was a time when everyone agreed on EVERYTHING. Just look at the disparity of beliefs concerning sex outside of marriage, and it's clear that there were disagreements on major points of doctrine right along.
Do you want a place where most of the people agree on most points of Biblical interpretation, like 4 crucified, speaking in tongues, etc.? Then check out the offshoot groups. There are some big ones that have classes and big meetings, and smaller ones at the state and local levels.
Or are you most concerned with finding people who love God, and want to lovingly help others? Is "walking in love" the most important part of doctrine in your family? Check your local churches. I daresay there are plenty that have done the love thing better than TWI, and for many more years. Don't discount the rest of the body of Christ. They don't discount you.
Regards,
Shaz
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Linda Z
bliss, welcome to GS!
I know exactly how your husband feels about there not being fellowship/good teaching outside twi. That's what I struggled with the most when I parted company with the organization.
There are plenty of other fellowships run by exway folks, and there are churches if you can look past the trinity teachings and don't worry about every single word spoken there being "accurate." Love and fellowship don't require agreement on everything in the Bible.
I think JustThinking and Shaz both make very good points.
Especially since you still have other family members in, backing off slowly might do less to jeopardize your relationship with them than a big, dramatic confrontation or shoving the GS Web site URL under their noses. When I was a committed innie, if anyone had done either to me I'd have gone right into the defensive mode.
Like Belle's husband, I would have said, "Any organization run by people will be imperfect, because people are imperfect," and I would have disregarded the criticism of leadership's behavior.
If it's the corruption that bothered you, rather than the doctrine, one of the offshoots might be a "safe place to land." For some people these offshoots have been helpful in the transition from twi to some other form of fellowship. Others like the offshoots when they check them out, and they stick around.
Of all the offshoots I'm aware of, CFF, so I hear, retains much of the doctrine of PFAL but isn't afraid to reexamine it. Its leaders don't want to repeat the mistakes/wrongs of twi. If you're near HQ, CFF's HQ isn't that far from you. I know both its founders, and they're good men.
I don't recommend Chris G's group (former bus driver for VPW), for many reasons. A lot of people like CES (JAL's group), but I can't get past their promotion in the past of Momentus training (and their failure to renounce it today) or their "personal prophecy" doctrine.
Or you can be like me. You can suddenly discover that you're quite capable of reading the Bible and seeking fellowship wherever you find it without joining any group.
Whatever you decide, I wish you and your husband well.
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bliss
Thank you all for your words, and most of all, I will not forget God, or His son. That is really what it is all about, being able to "remember" the Lord, without tainted images. I am striving the find this balance in our lives again or for the first time...
Just this morning my husband sadly said, "I love the people and fellowshipping." I said I love them too, but I don't even agree with some doctrine....and then I hit him with the hammer about Doc V and his escapades. He said, "so are you going to tell me any worse stuff like he cut limbs off and sent them to the 4 corners...?" (chuckling in shock) Then he said other funny stuff, so he doesn't get mad at me, he's just trying to sort this stuff out..can't understand how his upbringing had flaws (even though his parents raised an excellent man, to love God first and love his family.) I don't think I am interested in any offshoots, I have problems with any Dr followers and groups that will moan about the Way all day. Church to him sounds like such a turn-off totally, like selling out to the devil himself, and any of you raised in the Way, you know how that "church" sounds....it scares him half to death! So, discussions, and more dicussions are pending...I have a feeling this will be a slow process.
Herbiejuan-Gs wouldn't let me reply, but NO, I am not [edit**] ,FYI. Thanks for the offer.
:)-->
I pray everyday, that God will guide my steps and that I am walking uprightly.
So,here is another question posed to me from some "innies". Why leave when everything is "good"now, nobody in your business, LCM gone, no more yelling, a new class out (video)soon, love coming back, you love your fellowship, the manifestations......?" Aside from "no more corruption", which who knows that answer, shoulda left then heh? But we didn't,we were ignorant, ok, so lets say they are trying to be the Biblical Research Ministry, we all thought we were involved in now? Does that mean we should stay..? I can't listen to another teaching from the previous 2 administrations, or on their works... I am rambling now, forgive me.
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JustThinking
bliss,
I gave that a lot of thought. My conclusion was that it seemed good when I got in too. But it wasn't. Not AT ALL. So why should I trust them now? Fool me once...
The Way promotes a "how could I leave?" mentality. To me, the real question is why do they deserve to have a you and a man like your husband? What have THEY done to earn your time, love, financial support, etc.? If any group is asking so much from people they should EASILY be able to produce a huge and VERY SPECIFIC list of what they do for YOU.
JT
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Goey
Bliss,
Welcome to GS.
Most of us have either heard or experienced this belief before. In my opinion it is a fear that comes from years of indoctrination and false teachings. TWI does not have a corner on anything at all, except upon the lives of those that allow them to have it.
TWI wants you to think "there is nothing else out there". But, if it is clearly thought through, this myth can be rather easlily be dispelled.
"There is nothing else out there" comming from someone raised in TWI is simply a reflection of TWI's indoctrination. However, for clarity we should finish that statement since it is kind of incomplete.
1. There is nothing else out there that can give me the rightly divided word.....
Didn't Wierwille teach the keys to us so that we didn't have to have someone tell us what the Bible meant? Why then did folks abandon these good basic keys in the 70's/80's and allow TWI do the so-called research for everyone with no questions asked? Besides there many many places out there that do allow questions and won't punish you for asking them.
2. There is nothing else out there where I can be with like minded believers.....
Likemindedness is highly overrated. If it's doctrinal stuff, anyone can find a church or a fellowship where others agree on the major points.
But, how important is it for everyone to believe that that there were four crucified with Christ and not 2, or that Peter denied Jesus 6 times instead of 3? -- Trivial stuff that is just that ..... trival. These are just arguing points that do not affect real faith and practice. There are thousands of places out there where you can share friutfull fellowship with others if you can let go of the "way brain" and the "I have all the answers" mindset that most of us inherited from TWI. What you won't find is a whole lot of places like TWI that make you tow the line and swallow stuff hook line and sinker. Stay away from these.
Of course many folks became comfortable having an organization like TWI think for them. Tell them what to think and what to do ..... So, it may be a bit uncomfortable at first to be allowed to think and decide for yourself - but ultimately quite rewarding.
3. "There is nothing else out there that can fulfill me."
Being truly fulfilled (spiritually) comes from within and from a relationship with God, and should not be dependant upon a church, an organization, or another person. For most, TWI has been more of a hinderance than a help - with it's legalism, closed minedness and stupid doctrines designed to control and make folks dependant upon them. You don't need another place like that. There is freedom in Christ - not bondage.
Rest assured that God has not limited himself to The Way International. He is God and HE is everywhere.
I wish you and your family well.
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wingnut
And the ole VP use to teach that temptation is now between what is good and what is best for his kids after they graduated from his class.
It is good they have lightened up on the surface, but best would include contacting all the innocent they accused and ran out of Zion on a rail. Its good they are not so controlling, but best would be to put as much if not more effort into putting families back together they ripped apart.
Is it best that many of the same leaders that climbed to the top kicking and scratching and ripping the lives of others are still in positions of responsibility?
What has changed is delivery and not the message! Rather than screaming and spitting you are evil, its delivered with a sickening sweet southern accent. " I am sowwwwwy you are evil!"
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vickles
I understand how you all feel about checking churches out. I felt the same way. I got into twi as a teen and left in my thirties.
I was scared to death to try a church. The first couple of times I went I did it for the kids and it was ok. The sermons didn't effect me one way or another but the kids loved it.
Then I went to a church that really hit my heart. The first time I went I balled like a baby. Everything hit me like a ton of bricks. These people showed the love that I saw when I first started with twi and the fellowship with them was wonderful. The kids really loved this one too.
They had a youth pastor that when I went to get my daughter who was in high school at the time, I couldn't believe the response the kids were giving.
The youth pastor was so motivating you would not even had heard a pin drop. Not a muscle moved. There were about fifty teens there. It was so electrifying to see kids so in tune.
One day after church my daughter came to me crying and I asked her what was wrong. She cried, I just love this church and the people!!!!
I was sorry that we left that church as we had to move away.
I've tried a couple of more churches, some good some not so good. There were two other churches in that I did find that were just as close as the other one.
The church I go to now has a pastor that is so nonjudgemental. And is very inspiring and motivating.
Sure these churches don't teach everything I thought was the truth. I have found that most things I thought were the truth were wrong anyways and what I thought was really important was not all that important.
It was I that was being judgemental of these wonderful people.
I tried one of the offshoots but was not impressed with them. I didn't like some of the new stuff they were presenting. I felt that they were trying to be really different from twi but their set up was too similar. Plus the teachings didn't do anything for me.
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bliss
Thanks Goey for that thorough scope, I will show that to hubby... your right about the doctinal trivial stuff not affecting faith and practice, I needed to hear that because I was an arguer of every "jot and tittle". I still hold true to the Words integrity though.....but it is not what I want my relationship with Christ to be about.
Wing- my husband said today that to look for an apology from theVey won't happen. It is not allowed by the "lawyers"(so he was told) So hurt and destruction of many families doesn't deserve an apology because they can get sued? Where is WWJD in that? I don't think God would have them tight lipped if they really were standing for Him, because after all, wouldn't God take care of them if they righted all wrongs? He is their sufficiency, right?
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wingnut
Gee Bliss, we all know which side the lawyers were on when Jesus walked the earth!
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vickles
Don't be surprised if the people that you think are so loving turn out to be not so loving when you leave. Who I thought were my best friends weren't the friends I thought they were. My best friend was the one that turned on me and told everyone I was possessed.
The problem with that though was everyone had known me for years and knew I wasn't so they all ended up at my house one evening asking me what happened. When they were their people from twi came storming in my house and told them to leave. Well you can imagine what their response was. A lot of people in that area left because of it. I just wanted to leave quietly but twi wouldn't let it be quiet.
I know they say it has changed. I have a very hard time believing that. As you can see some people that just left even a year ago still had problems with twi. That was just a year ago. They can change the clothing on the outside but they can't change whats on the inside.
Their hearts are hardened from years of evil. People that are movitivated for the wrong reasons.
I know its scarey to even think about leaving. But really when you do leave it will be like walking in fresh air after being in a small room with people that hadn't bathed for a long period of time. It is very refreshing. And very healing. Sure it may hurt for a while but the feeling of being on your own and not being a kid anymore is very invigrating. You can do whatever you want without asking for permission and don't have to feel guilty if you don't go to twig because you want to spend time with your family.
And you will find that God is more loving than what you realized and that what you were told about if you leave that the hedge of protection from God won't be there and something bad is going to happen to you is BS. Heck even if you don't abundant share God is still there for you. God is so much bigger than this. Twi just told these things to keep people in fear of leaving.
So in simple words, it is not as scarey to leave twi as one may think. Try it you may just like it.
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bliss
Hahhaaa, good one Wing (mind the nicname?), I will be sure to use that one!
Thanks for the info Vickles, i really feel that their is "more than this" out there. I really do. I have done some social stuff in some churches through other groups and was Very impressed with some of the prayers, (best I have heard in a long time)and their giving hearts. And this was a year ago......that started my yearning for more... of course I had to cringe when they ended the prayers with "in your name". I still have to rethink that one.
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likeaneagle
I would prepare to help your husband. He has alot of FEAR cause of the FEAR INTIMIDATION in the doctinal and practical areas of the Way doctrine. He is going to feel very responsible for his decsions and will weigh things heavily....myheart goes out to him and you...
God will never walk away from us.
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wingnut
My friends call me wingie, least they did before my java screwed up and I could chat
Wing is fine
:D-->
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bliss
Belle,
Thanks,and I am sorry about what happened to you. I posed the question to my hubby about "would he leave me if I left the Way?"
He would not, I believe totally, but he knows that others didn't behave so admirably. It is unfortunate,but it seems that people got married with only One thing in common....the ministry, that's all. And then, when it comes down to the nitty-gritty, they elevated the commitment to the Way above their commitment to the other(which was a commitment made before God). I didn't realize that many were standing approved "before theWay" instead of God. Go figure.
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herbiejuan
Bliss don't let Wingie pull yer leg I call him Wingz amoung other things
;)-->
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wingnut
I said friends!
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Bramble
Why leave when things are so good now??
I know why--because there is no gaurantee it won't get bad again. It's not like they've made any doctrinal changes. It all depends on whatever leadership you have and how they behave.
I wouldn't raise my children in such an unstable group, raise them to think TWI was all there is, only to have some crap leader stick it too them at some future time.
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jardinero
Hi Wingie!
J.
-->
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moony3424
It's been awhile since I've left, but I was in for about 20 years. I understand where y'all are coming from. Like they always said in TWI, it's a way of life, but it's because they make it your whole life. I was lonely after I left for good (left a couple of times for a short time before), because besides going to work, there really isn't any life outside of the ministry. Absolutely everybody in your social circle is in. When you leave, you are M&A and all your "friends" are instructed no longer to be your friends as "your devil spirits may infect them."
But life goes on and if you stay strong (remember you still have God on your side outside of TWI), you can see that the more than abundant life is that much more abundant without the scrutiny of TWI. It was hard to find a church that I wanted to go to, because I would keep comparing the teaching to what I learned before. But, as was taught in the old Orientalism class, I just say, "Mind don't think that, think like this."
-->
My children and I are extremely happy now. And I even have something that I was told I could never have; a pet. But not just any pet, I have a cat. At least during the early days, it was taught NEVER to have a cat as they can be possessed faster than any other being. That is why witches use them. (Never did hear any scripture back-up on that one.) Oh well, just rambling now.
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TaylorCompany
We have been out for almost 7 years now and have a FANTASTIC relationship with God. Yes, we lost friends, but we have learned so much since then that has supported our decision to leave. One of the (many) reasons why we left was that we could not continue, in good conscience, to tithe to a corrupt organization.
Think about it...I wrote a check this morning and tithed $1,600...with GREAT JOY. For one thing, I know that our church will use part or all of that money to help others in our church who are sick or needy. I know because when we needed help, without asking, the church gave us money - a lot - and with NO strings attached. I know that part of the money will be used to continue to build our library so that people can build their own relationship with God. I know that part of the money will be used to help missions around the world bring people to Jesus Christ - even if it is not our church. MOST churches are excellent stewards of God's money.
How much have you ever received from the way in your time of need?
Believe me, your relationship with God will grow infinitely stronger beginning the moment you leave the bondage, corruption and control.
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Nottawayfer
Bliss,
I left 2 1/2 years ago. I had a boyfriend who remained in. We kept dating for 4 months after I left, but I kicked him to the curb because of his rotten and offensive conservative attitude. (I am not saying all conservatives have rotten and offensive attitudes.)
I left without telling anyone. I sent an email to my FC and BC and told them that I would no longer be attending fellowship. I also told them that I wanted no contact--no phone calls, visits, or emails. I got one from the BC telling me how sad it was and asked if she contributed to it. I never answered her.
I was afraid to make that decision for several months. My main fear was "Where will I go?" God had more than taken care of me. I have received great healing in my heart from the pain I experienced from twi. I felt betrayed by them because of giving them almost 20 years of my life and learning they hid so much evil.
Churches can be a great place to decompress. You may have to go to a few before you find one that suites you. You will have a lot of things to deal with in your mind when you go (i.e., trinity), but the love there is real. I've seen many churches who truly care about their congregation and their community. That speaks volumes to me.
Maybe you don't want to go to church. I tried a few offshoots when I left, but it was twi-lite for me. I couldn't hack it.
Whatever you do, you will be happier to be out of a religion (yes, twi IS a religion) that is a big farce. You will start to discover more about yourself and won't be so uptight about use of words or other anal things like that.
:P-->
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ckeer
Bliss here is an answer to what to tell the innies about leaving now- The reason things are good now is because the current leadersh+ has consistently lied and withheld the truth concerning VPW, LCM, lawsuits (that could bankrupt the ministry), And other sexual indiscretions by in the field WC that have hurt believers.
The Ministry appears to be in total denial of the facts and truths concerning its leaders, and the genuine sources of its foundational teachings. Add to this fact that it has not apparently had a truly original thought or insight on the Word in years. It Does not appear to be a genuine Research Ministry- because that should encourage questions, discussions and differences of opinion and honest truthful apologies and explanations from the top down as growth occurs- Has that ever happened in the past and is it happening now? The only apparent reason for its continued existence is provide a safe haven for leaders who cant do anything else- thus they provide a cocoon where believers can be comfortably numb a
The only thing that allows it to continue is its foundational belief that must be accepted without question: TWI is the only genuine and true fellowship and that all others are false. This belief is the root cause of the fear that bound me before and after I left and binds your husband and others today.
God is simply too big for that and we are simply too small.
A few biblical examples in the old testament - Balaam was a prophet- he was not an Israelite- God’s chosen people at the time. What he spoke came to pass.
Melchizedek king of Salem was the priest of the most high God who blessed Abraham and who in turn tithed to this priest.
Moses lived with and served and married the daughter of Jethro the priest of Midian. These were the believers Moses fellowshipped with when God first spoke to him!
Genuine fellowships are established by groups of people who seek to follow God in their hearts- Not with their organizations, in fact organization seem to do more to destroy genuine fellowship than build it in my opinion.
Then again why rock their happy world – Ignorance Is Bliss – while you are ignorant anyway
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