Bishop Spong Tells Religious "Progressives" to Stick It to Conservatives

[markomalley]

quote:

Bishop Spong Tells Religious "Progressives" to Stick It to Conservatives

Mark Tooley

Contrasting his own sense of divine love with the ostensible "hate" of conservative Protestants and Catholics, Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong insisted, "I don't want to denigrate any human being."

But Spong lashed into traditional Christians in a scorching speech to Michael Lerner's Conference on Spiritual Activism on July 21 in Berkeley, California. He hailed Lerner as a "major force for peace in our nation and the world."

(snip)

"I rise up to say 'no' to popular religion in America today," Spong declared, calling American religiosity "tribal" and the "blessing of private prejudices."

Warning against this supposed "tribal" religion, Spong insinuated a connection between conservative Christians and Islamist terrorists. He noted, as if it were some kind of proof, that both Osama bin Laden and George W. Bush "invoke" God.

Spong, who is the retired Episcopal Bishop of Newark, has long been a biting polemicist on behalf of liberal religion, writing books suggesting that the Virgin Mary was a prostitute and St. Paul a "self-hating gay man,"

while denying that Christ was divine and rejecting a personal God. "It's time to name evil as evil when sounded in pious accents of biblical religion," Spong declared blazingly.

(snip)

Growing churches in America and around the world are theologically orthodox, which disturbs Spong greatly.

(snip)

Spong fretted that the Bible in America has become a "force in public policy as an arbiter of right and wrong." Those who quote it make "fascinating points" and "assume the Bible is always right," he observed.

But the Bible has been a "major force in dark chapters of American history," Spong ominously warned. It has been used to support slavery, oppress women, and justify war, he charged. And now the Bible is being used to "make abortion illegal" and to "oppose end of life decisions," Spong complained. The Bible is even being used to justify the "preservation of living cadavers," he said, in an apparent reference to the case of severely disabled Terri Schiavo.

(snip)

Dismissing orthodox Christians as credulously simplistic, Spong claimed that beliefs about God descending onto Mount Sinai or Jesus ascending into Heaven were based on archaic assumptions of a "three-tiered universe" that placed God and Heaven right above the clouds.

Even if Jesus were ascending at the speed of light, he still would not have yet left our galaxy after 2,000 years, Spong chuckled, crediting this clever observation to the late astronomer Carl Sagan.

The Bible calls the Hebrews the "chosen people," Spong mockingly recalled. "If God has chosen people, then he also has unchosen people," Spong warned.

"Have you read the Bible from the Egyptian standpoint?" Spong asked to laughter, pointing out that God did not treat the Egyptians kindly in the Book of Exodus.

I came across this article and thought that it might be an interesting source of discussion for folks here. I know there are a few who would not appreciate the comments; however, some other folks might find themselves in complete agreement with his words -- they may even wish to consider checking into his church!

After all, who wouldn't enjoy this scene:

[Ron G.]

Berkely is just full of buffoons like this clown, it seems.

[GarthP2000]

Ummmm, what parts did you snip out, hmmm?

And frankly, I fail to see how what Spong said constitutes a 'hate article', as it were. ... Besides, I thought that we were above using 'politically correct' concepts like that. ;)-->

[LG]

quote:

Originally posted by GarthP2000:

Ummmm, what parts did you snip out, hmmm?

And frankly, I fail to see how what Spong said constitutes a 'hate article', as it were. ... Besides, I thought that we were above using 'politically correct' concepts like that.

Ummmm, why don't you click the link and find out, hmmm?

And frankly, nobody said anything about "a 'hate article', as it were," or said anything about Spong hating. He was the one who used the word "hate," not Mark or the author of the article.

[Trefor Heywood]

You need people like Spong to counteract the Falwells and the Robertsons. :D-->

[Tom Strange]

what's in the picture? give me a ball of mud for mine eyes...

[mstar1]

Welcome back Mark, good to see you posting again.

I am not in any real danger of becoming an Episcopalian any time soon,and I am not familiar with Bishop Spong.

But I will say the Bishop makes some valid points and observations that i wouldn't cast aside too quickly simply because the articles writer had an obvious bias and wrote in a disingenous manner to make him appear like a wingnut.

[markomalley]

Thank you mstar

Here's another article written in a clearly secular paper (North Jersey News):

Bishop Spong steps up fight against evangelism

It says:

quote:

Time hasn't mellowed John Shelby Spong.

Quite the contrary.

Now 74, the famously provocative and liberal Episcopal bishop from North Jersey has become one of America's most outspoken critics of the powerful Christian Right.

"I really resent having the Christian faith being taken over by people who identify with hating gay people and abortion rights," Spong said in an interview. "The public face of Christianity is being shaped by Pope Benedict XVI, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell."

Spong led the seven-county Diocese of Newark for 24 stormy years before retiring in 2000. He still lives in North Jersey, in a secluded Morris County neighborhood near the grounds of Greystone Hospital.

But he is everywhere these days, making roughly 250 public appearances a year. He has lectured from Alabama to Australia, sparred with Bill O'Reilly on Fox News and published tomes like "The Sins of Scripture - Exposing the Bible's Texts of Hate to Reveal the God of Love."

(snip)

In his most recent books, Spong rejects the notion that Jesus was born of a virgin. He suggests the Apostle Paul was a repressed homosexual. And he describes the core Christian belief that people are saved because God allowed his son to be crucified as "barbaric," "grotesque" and a "divine act of child abuse."

(snip)

"He is the Howard Dean of the theological world," said Chad Brand, a professor at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky. "He's the guy who people will pay attention to in order to learn what that side of the spectrum is saying. But I would imagine he has the support of less than 10 percent of the Christian community."

(snip)

His latest book - "The Sins of Scripture" - seeks to disarm religious conservatives by deconstructing the biblical verses they cite to support their position on gay rights and other political hot buttons.

"I think we have to recognize the Bible as a book written by people walking through history and shaped by their understanding of the world," he said. "To me, that journey to understand the call of God is never over. I think we are still journeying."

For all his iconoclasm, Spong said he wants to save Christianity, not destroy it. He said Jesus stands at the center of his life. He prayed fervently, he said, for one of his stepdaughters who was serving in the armed forces in Iraq.

"Do I think my prayer is going to stop a bullet from hitting her?" he asked. "No, I don't think that."

But, he added: "When I pray for someone, it's almost saying |the limits of my humanity can't reach them, so I've got to go through whatever channels I've got."

Spong said he seeks to call Christians to a new understanding of God - a God who is the all-powerful source of life but doesn't intervene to win wars, punish evildoers or bestow riches on the blessed.

"If God is an interventionist God, then it gets to be very scary when you ask, 'Whose prayers are going to change God's mind?'Ÿ" he said.

"Then you would have to say God is immoral because he didn't intervene to stop the murder of 6 million Jews in the Holocaust."

(snip)

(Note to Garth: the snipped parts are, for the most part, reactions from conservatives to him...interesting, but non-sequitur)

And, to the strange one: the picture is that of a couple of clowns doing the consecration at a "Clown Mass" in a Mass. Episcopal church. Sorry the resolution is so bad.

[satori001]

I think Democrats like Spong (what a perfect name) and Dean should get all the publicity they crave. The vast no-wing conspiracy, called "undecided" every election, needs to get a good whiff of what these guys are about.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

In the midst of his unorthodox belief system, Spong makes some lucid observations of the religious, right wing zealots...

Progressives SHOULD stick it to the conservatives...

[markomalley]

Groucho...I agree...you all should stick it to us...keep trying, I'm sure you'll get it right some day.

:D-->

[mstar1]

Well I am not going to pretend to understand his theology based on a few small articles, or dismiss it totally based on the opinions of a few conservatives that disagree with him.

He was grouped with Michael Lerner of Tikkun and Jim Wallis of Sojourners at the conference you first mentioned. They are two voices that I do respect-and although I have differences with both, they have things to say which imo should be listened to

Although he appears as a radical(a little too overtly political and reactionary as a religious leader for me)on first glance-I do think that Christianity could benefit in the long run, and sometimes does, when it listens to the voices that at first hearing seem to come from the fringes.

[Tom Strange]

Is his name pronounced the same as sponge? or does it rhyme with bong?

[mstar1]

quote:

Progressives SHOULD stick it to the conservatives...

I don't exactly think that they should "Stick it to' the conservatives.

The progressive and more liberal elements of christianity have pretty much done their 'church stuff', remained politically passive and stayed more or less quiet while the conservative and especially the far right elements have moved into the political realm , successfully promoted their agendas, made a lot of noise and now speak as if they are they only form of christianity.

Thats far far from true , the american right wing is a small facet of christianity that has gained some worldly power-- thats all.

Christianity needs voices like Spong and Wallis, not to 'stick it to the conservatives' so much as to break the ice and open doors for progressive christianity to have a voice and let people know that not every christian is bound to end up in the far right like they would have you believe.

So far I find somethings interesting about Spong and somethings I disagree with but it is about time somebody stood up

[Jim]

Yawn.

Take it to Doctrine.

[LG]

Not that my opinion matters much, but I don't think this belongs in either the doctrinal or politcal forum, though it contains elements of both, as do many other Open forum topics.

[ChattyKathy]

quote:

Contrasting his own sense of divine love with the ostensible "hate" of conservative Protestants and Catholics, Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong insisted, "I don't want to denigrate any human being."

But it's okay to do so with God and His Son, Mary and Paul. (regardless which version of his words you read)

I want to give his sound ideas attention but I'm sorry I just can't get past him. Maybe another day.

Mark, you're a welcome sight, don't be such a stranger. -->