I agree with this woman. We're told to check for ID and confirm it all the time!
I recently had a deputy sherriff (never remember if 2 r's or 2 f's) knock on my door, no POUND on my door. Scared the bejezus outa my and my daughter with the loud knocking.
Had it not been still early evening and light out and had his face not been looming hugely in my door window, I'd not have answered the door. Also we had the advantage that this officer is the school liason officer, so my daughter said 'oh yeah,that's officer Brooks'. Well, she also added an aside of "Moooom, what'd you do?" -->
Any person can easily get a uniform of an officer of the law, a badge,etc. Happens too often.
This seems to be one of those things where they tell us it's ok to check out credentials until we actually do check 'em out.
I say do it anyway, if in doubt. Same goes to utility people, delivery people, etc.
They could argue that older folks can be tough too. But holy smokes. The lady was seventy three years old, and here the guy is trying to interrogate her like a common criminal in the middle of the night, and she is not exactly a Ma Barker type.. at least that I can tell.
The "interrogation" doesn't go quite right, so he just writes her a ticket..
I think the one officer deserves whatever beating he gets in the press on this one.
"The exchange that occurred between the officer and the resident was unproductive to the point that the officer felt the charge was necessary," said Jim Sughrue, a representative with the Raleigh Police Department.
Doesn't say a whole heck of a lot.
Doesn't condemn the officer, but doesn't exactly justify his actions either.
Too bad in a way.. one goon can really muck up the whole works.
I think the PD will be pretty vague as they try to distance themselves from this incident... and I think the little old lady will get lots of press... (as she should, I believe)
Lately there's been a rash of "home searches" here by uniformed people with police cars bought from the auctions...
There's no way the PD can make this stand up if she did in fact call 911 and then come back after verification... the ACLU and a litany of other groups will be all over this like stink on you know what...
Police officers are people too. They have bad days just like the rest of us. Sometimes they unnecessarily lose their temper....(I know that never happens with any of us), but, well, when you deal with criminals, morons and idiots most of the day on most days, well, it happens. I am not justifying this guy's behavior
We don't REALLY know what happened, nor do we have the whole story. Remember that there are 3 sides to every story: Yours, Mine and what really happened. :)--> Perception is everything. Maybe this lady puts out poison to kill the neighbor's cats who roam the neighborhood; maybe she's been visited by the police numerous times for harrassing neighbors.....who knows. The police will not speak of any record or encounters they've had with her previously because they aren't allowed to. If the media knows or finds out about it, they will never tell because it just doesn't make for a good story like it does as it stands. Maybe she's just a sweet little old lady who encountered an officer having a really bad day.
I'm sure there's an internal investigation going on and, IF they find that the officer acted inappropriately he will have some sort of discipline applied to him. It has happened with officers that I know very well.
That being said.....one bad officer or one bad incident doesn't make the whole force bad, nor does it make all police officers bad.
Doncha just *love* it when extreme examples like this are usually portrayed as tho' they are the norm? And yet many of the same ones trying to convey this undercurrent are usually the same ones who whine about why the police are never there, and why there is such _lawlessness_ in the land nowadays.
Makes you wanna throttle somebody, doesn't it? ;)-->
Sorry. :o--> Yes, it does make me wanna throttle somebody. LOL! I'm passionate about our officers, even though my favorite one chose a cult over me.
Here's an example of another type of experience similar in some ways to the one above:
quote:
My ex was directing traffic one morning at a very busy major highway and the turn off to the local high school. Traffic is a major clusterf**k and people are ignoring his directions and it's creating a dangerous situation for the cars as well as himself and another officer directing traffic with him.
He stands in front of this car and puts his hand up to stop them. The car keeps coming. He yells, "STOP YOUR ****ING CAR!!! at the top of his lungs.
Lady with a young child in the car who is going the opposite direction and also stopped at that particular intersection overhears this. Calls the police chief to complain about his language and the bad example he's setting......She neglects to mention that both officers were almost hit a few times and that the car he yelled at was a high school girl who was talking on her cell phone or something and not really paying attention. She also neglected to mention the crash that would have resulted in him getting run over or a crash happening. AND what no one else knew was that he didn't get a lick of sleep the night before because his wife was sick and he was helping take care of her.
And then there's the guy he wrote a much cheaper "failure to obey traffic control device" ticket instead of the wreckless driving ticket he should have gotten....the guy took him to court even though he was doing over 20 miles over the speed limit. Our plans for his day off were ruined because he had to go to traffic court thanks to this guy who got a break from my ex.....
when dealing with the elderly it should first be assumed that vague or unsatisfactory answers to police questions could at the very least be the result of senility, bad hearing or a combination thereof. I find it silly that the PD would say that the patrol car was in plain site when 1) it was at night and 2) many 73 year old people could't see a mountain if it was in front of them. I know people half that age who couldn't see a car on the street at night either.
Sounds to me like an inexperienced officer or one who had a bad day. Of course the department would never back down from this for legal reasons. I wonder what made this "investigation" so urgent that the officer couldn't wait for her to verify his identity ?
It must not have been *that* urgent since he had time to issue a citation. Maybe he thought she was going to run from the scene ? Damage to a neighbor's fence isn't exactly up there with the great train robbery. Of course the officer will claim that he didn't know that she was 73 until he issued the citation though it certainly couldn't have escaped his attention that she was advanced in age (look at her picture in the link) - unless he is just clueless or vindictive.
Now if it turned out that the officer had prior experience with this woman then he would have known that she was 73. And if based on previous experience with her she had been uncooperative in his view then they would have most likely deployed two officers ,perhaps a female officer, to the scene.
In general law enforcement is a thankless task and experienced officers recognize this yet still manage to conduct their work professionally and in a fashion that demonstrates intelligence and sensitivity to the situation at hand and I'm glad we have people out there willing to do the work. Just as there are bad mechanincs, plumbers, doctors, etc there are sure to be policemen who would do better at being something else.
If the woman really did just go in to call 911 to verify who he was, then the officer shouldn't have ticketed her. However, even if he'd beaten her to a pulp with his nightstick, that wouldn't reflect on "the kops," as a group or back up the notion that "no one respects them anymore."
well I guess I missed the point of the original story... I didn't have any of the thoughts or reactions that you guys are describing, and I see the point in your other stories as well Belle...
I merely thought that in this one instance, that it was a bit extreme, understandable on his side to a point as well, but extreme...
There is a case in Montana of a man who posed as an officer with all the trimmings from a good supply store, and he abducted many little boys and chopped them up an ATE them.
Nathanial Bar-Jonah
Childhood Years: At 17 years of age, David Brown (his name at that time) pled guilty after being arrested for dressing as a policeman and beating and choking an eight-year-old boy who he ordered into his car. After the beating the child recognized Brown who was working at a local McDonalds and authorities were called. Brown received a year of probation for the crime.
these Raleigh police gonna get beat up by an old lady? cant give time?
There needs to be a way to feel safe for both parties.
I sometimes post things to get conversation going and to see where it ends up. I like to see opposing sides of an idea or situation...especially here because most arguements are typically well thought out.
I appreciate Belles post since I've had a little experience with LEO's and have some first hand knowledge of what they sometimes have to deal with.
This one was particularly interesting, however, because here in Arkansas, we had what was dubbed "The Blue Light" rapist.
This guy dressed up like a cop, drove around at night in what appeared to be an unmarked squad car with a blue light mounted in the window and victimized young women for over a year, if I remember right. It was a very long time.
His actions, covering four or five counties, created such havoc that not only were young women terrorized, the police were virtually powerless to enforce simple traffic laws. People started to refuse to stop on a regular basis.
By the time the guy was caught, in several towns, local police were forced into a situation where they could no longer stop violators at night unless they escorted them to the nearest place with witnesses and then show their ID or they could summon another squad car.
When LEO's fail to treat all citizens with respect and courtesy or when private citizens can no longer determine which is the law enforcer and which is the law breaker, then chaos must soon ensue.
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Shellon
I agree with this woman. We're told to check for ID and confirm it all the time!
I recently had a deputy sherriff (never remember if 2 r's or 2 f's) knock on my door, no POUND on my door. Scared the bejezus outa my and my daughter with the loud knocking.
Had it not been still early evening and light out and had his face not been looming hugely in my door window, I'd not have answered the door. Also we had the advantage that this officer is the school liason officer, so my daughter said 'oh yeah,that's officer Brooks'. Well, she also added an aside of "Moooom, what'd you do?"
-->
Any person can easily get a uniform of an officer of the law, a badge,etc. Happens too often.
This seems to be one of those things where they tell us it's ok to check out credentials until we actually do check 'em out.
I say do it anyway, if in doubt. Same goes to utility people, delivery people, etc.
Not groveling, just good sense.
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Ham
They could argue that older folks can be tough too. But holy smokes. The lady was seventy three years old, and here the guy is trying to interrogate her like a common criminal in the middle of the night, and she is not exactly a Ma Barker type.. at least that I can tell.
The "interrogation" doesn't go quite right, so he just writes her a ticket..
I think the one officer deserves whatever beating he gets in the press on this one.
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Tom Strange
I think the PD will be pretty vague as they try to distance themselves from this incident... and I think the little old lady will get lots of press... (as she should, I believe)
Lately there's been a rash of "home searches" here by uniformed people with police cars bought from the auctions...
There's no way the PD can make this stand up if she did in fact call 911 and then come back after verification... the ACLU and a litany of other groups will be all over this like stink on you know what...
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Belle
Belle's soapbox warning
Police officers are people too. They have bad days just like the rest of us. Sometimes they unnecessarily lose their temper....(I know that never happens with any of us), but, well, when you deal with criminals, morons and idiots most of the day on most days, well, it happens. I am not justifying this guy's behavior
We don't REALLY know what happened, nor do we have the whole story. Remember that there are 3 sides to every story: Yours, Mine and what really happened.
:)--> Perception is everything. Maybe this lady puts out poison to kill the neighbor's cats who roam the neighborhood; maybe she's been visited by the police numerous times for harrassing neighbors.....who knows. The police will not speak of any record or encounters they've had with her previously because they aren't allowed to. If the media knows or finds out about it, they will never tell because it just doesn't make for a good story like it does as it stands. Maybe she's just a sweet little old lady who encountered an officer having a really bad day.
I'm sure there's an internal investigation going on and, IF they find that the officer acted inappropriately he will have some sort of discipline applied to him. It has happened with officers that I know very well.
That being said.....one bad officer or one bad incident doesn't make the whole force bad, nor does it make all police officers bad.
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Ham
Quite true. And I think it unfair to put a bad label on his department, unless this is standard procedure or something..
The media sure LOVES this kind of thing though.
Its a living, I guess..
I did give them a loophole with my opinion- this lady is not a Ma Barker type as far as I know. Who knows, maybe she is.
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GarthP2000
Belle,
Doncha just *love* it when extreme examples like this are usually portrayed as tho' they are the norm? And yet many of the same ones trying to convey this undercurrent are usually the same ones who whine about why the police are never there, and why there is such _lawlessness_ in the land nowadays.
Makes you wanna throttle somebody, doesn't it?
;)-->
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Belle
Sorry.
:o--> Yes, it does make me wanna throttle somebody. LOL! I'm passionate about our officers, even though my favorite one chose a cult over me.
Here's an example of another type of experience similar in some ways to the one above:
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Belle
And then there's the guy he wrote a much cheaper "failure to obey traffic control device" ticket instead of the wreckless driving ticket he should have gotten....the guy took him to court even though he was doing over 20 miles over the speed limit. Our plans for his day off were ruined because he had to go to traffic court thanks to this guy who got a break from my ex.....
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diazbro
yes who indeed really knows all the details but
when dealing with the elderly it should first be assumed that vague or unsatisfactory answers to police questions could at the very least be the result of senility, bad hearing or a combination thereof. I find it silly that the PD would say that the patrol car was in plain site when 1) it was at night and 2) many 73 year old people could't see a mountain if it was in front of them. I know people half that age who couldn't see a car on the street at night either.
Sounds to me like an inexperienced officer or one who had a bad day. Of course the department would never back down from this for legal reasons. I wonder what made this "investigation" so urgent that the officer couldn't wait for her to verify his identity ?
It must not have been *that* urgent since he had time to issue a citation. Maybe he thought she was going to run from the scene ? Damage to a neighbor's fence isn't exactly up there with the great train robbery. Of course the officer will claim that he didn't know that she was 73 until he issued the citation though it certainly couldn't have escaped his attention that she was advanced in age (look at her picture in the link) - unless he is just clueless or vindictive.
Now if it turned out that the officer had prior experience with this woman then he would have known that she was 73. And if based on previous experience with her she had been uncooperative in his view then they would have most likely deployed two officers ,perhaps a female officer, to the scene.
In general law enforcement is a thankless task and experienced officers recognize this yet still manage to conduct their work professionally and in a fashion that demonstrates intelligence and sensitivity to the situation at hand and I'm glad we have people out there willing to do the work. Just as there are bad mechanincs, plumbers, doctors, etc there are sure to be policemen who would do better at being something else.
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LG
If the woman really did just go in to call 911 to verify who he was, then the officer shouldn't have ticketed her. However, even if he'd beaten her to a pulp with his nightstick, that wouldn't reflect on "the kops," as a group or back up the notion that "no one respects them anymore."
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Tom Strange
well I guess I missed the point of the original story... I didn't have any of the thoughts or reactions that you guys are describing, and I see the point in your other stories as well Belle...
I merely thought that in this one instance, that it was a bit extreme, understandable on his side to a point as well, but extreme...
Say La Vee...
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DaddyHoundog
Lordy--
I agree with the old woman.
There is a case in Montana of a man who posed as an officer with all the trimmings from a good supply store, and he abducted many little boys and chopped them up an ATE them.
Nathanial Bar-Jonah
Childhood Years: At 17 years of age, David Brown (his name at that time) pled guilty after being arrested for dressing as a policeman and beating and choking an eight-year-old boy who he ordered into his car. After the beating the child recognized Brown who was working at a local McDonalds and authorities were called. Brown received a year of probation for the crime.
these Raleigh police gonna get beat up by an old lady? cant give time?
There needs to be a way to feel safe for both parties.
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Ron G.
I sometimes post things to get conversation going and to see where it ends up. I like to see opposing sides of an idea or situation...especially here because most arguements are typically well thought out.
I appreciate Belles post since I've had a little experience with LEO's and have some first hand knowledge of what they sometimes have to deal with.
This one was particularly interesting, however, because here in Arkansas, we had what was dubbed "The Blue Light" rapist.
This guy dressed up like a cop, drove around at night in what appeared to be an unmarked squad car with a blue light mounted in the window and victimized young women for over a year, if I remember right. It was a very long time.
His actions, covering four or five counties, created such havoc that not only were young women terrorized, the police were virtually powerless to enforce simple traffic laws. People started to refuse to stop on a regular basis.
By the time the guy was caught, in several towns, local police were forced into a situation where they could no longer stop violators at night unless they escorted them to the nearest place with witnesses and then show their ID or they could summon another squad car.
When LEO's fail to treat all citizens with respect and courtesy or when private citizens can no longer determine which is the law enforcer and which is the law breaker, then chaos must soon ensue.
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