You are exactly right my Strange friend Tom. Yet you will notice that when I posted my opinion about the Harry Potter books, that I left out any Biblical opinion until later.
I started out stating my beliefs about "trendy-ism", and how since I was a little kid in fifth grade, I thought it weird and "lemming like" when all of the kids were reading The Hobbit. And, that was my belief at that time, and that this belief of mine has continued throughout my life, even throughout and well past my "TWI Years".
Ok, I confess, I said that I never wanted to stand in line with a bunch of "Spock ear wearing Star Trek droolers", which could in fact be offensive. But, from this non Biblical perspective, this is my stated belief. I actually do believe that it is ridiculous the way people jump on these media promoted bandwagons, and this includes the rush to Harry Potter books, and that is my belief. I mean, geez, the people in the little town of Haines Alaska, where we just moved from had a "Harry Potter Day" at the Public Library, and all of the local witches (and I mean that literally) showed up with their brooms and witch costumes to have a "great time" with the local kids fer gawds sake!
Well, I gotta go to work now. Another ten hours of hanging sheetrock. Uggh! Now, how did I get into the belief that hanging sheetrock is a good thing? Well for now, it does pay the bills....
I wish I could hang sheetrock! really I do... but the old back won't allow it... I'm like that Mel Brooks character... what was his name? Count de Money?
Tom, I know that's not what you meant, but you implied it just as much as some others in this thread implied the things they were accused of implying.
It's pretty standard, though not universal, Christian doctrine that Jesus saved Christians from going to hell, that the key to that salvation is believing in and accepting Jesus as lord and savior, and that there is no other way to salvation. That doctrine implies that anyone who believes differently is going to hell, so any Christian who accepts that doctrine and says the things Jonny suggested is implying that anyone who believes differently is going to hell. Add in your response to him and what do you have?
LG... I guess we'll just have to disagree here... I promoted "state your case/cause/belief and leave others out of it"... they stated their case/cause/belief and also made statements about others...
so I guess we'll just disagree... I don't see it...
I think all the sorcery in the Potter books (at least the early ones) was just a methaphor. The storyline has it that this kid was from this miserable background and was living with people who despised him and he was basically incapable to do anything about it but then discovered his "powers" which allowed him to leave and be recognized as being special. I think any kid who has had a tough time growing up has thought like this a time or two. I think the author just expanded signficantly on that theme.
The appeal of the Potter books and the Star Wars movies both make me think of how TWI pitched the advanced class to people as if you could be "tapped in operating all nine all the time" as if your walk with God was this ongoing conversation with some voice on the other line always telling you what to do when to do it no matter how insignificant it was.
"Oh dear, should we have the chicken and rice or the beef and rice. I know ,I'll reach into Daddy's cookie jar to find out". This is not an understatement at all. I knew plenty of people who readily admitted to living like this (where they were getting "answers" from who knows) and
they were so afraid of making even the most basic of decisions without "checking with Father".
I am still trying to understand the difference between a love potion and a prayer that says, "Thank you Father for working in his heart to fall in love with me in the name of Jesus Christ"
Do folks really think it is pure and Godly because the add in the name of Jesus Christ?
Regarding offenses, it must be recognized that we've been talking about two different things here. One is giving offense; the other is people being offended.
Jesus said that anyone who wasn't offended in him was blessed.
Paul said before Caesar's judgment seat, "Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all."
Obviously, taking into account where Paul made that statement - Caesar's judgment seat - many to whom Paul offended nothing at all as he preached Jesus Christ, were nevertheless offended.
It is inevitable that offenses will come.
Some people will be offended at Jesus Christ no matter how inoffensively he is presented.
That the one who was delivered for our offenses should be offensively preached, or that those, who being inoffensively told about the one who was delivered for their offenses, should take offense at the message - both are supremely ironic.
"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift."
Jesus never said, whatsoever car ye ask for in my name I will do it so long as you use it to move The Word...
And now, I just gotta tell you this. This really happened, and I don't think it was a magic spell. Please take a moment to read this.
Ok. When I was a WOW in South Central Los Angeles in 76/77, my VW fastback broke down. This was the only car our WOW fam had. I was really bummed because it was the trans axle (VW word for transmission), and how could a WOW in LA move the Word without a car, I thought. At least we needed it to go to the beach for "beach outreach" which translated meant looking at the girls in bikinis...
Anyway, one day, while working on the damned thing and trying to fix it, I got frustrated and threw down my wrench down and crawled out from under the car. I wiped what grease I could from my hands and stormed into our apartment. Only my two WOW sistahs were home, and they saw the serious look on my face.
The family coordinator, Kathy V*issem, looked at me and said; "What?" And I said; "We are gonna pray. Let's hold hands". They looked at me like I was nuts because my hands were greasy, but they went along with it. And I prayed to God that someone would GIVE me a car, that my VW was a piece of sh it, and if Sc*tt Fa*st could put an ad in the paper that said; "Fellowship leader needs car, please call" and then someone answered the ad and gave him a car,, then surely God, you could send someone to give me a car too. And then I went back outside to clean up my tools and come back in for a shower.
The very next day, I was out talking to people in Centinela Park and inviting them to Twig. That is when I met Vernon Patterson Brown III. Vernon was a young black man from a really screwed up family. He lived over in Watts, and he had just split up with his wife. I invited him to twig. I told him that I couldn't pick him up, but he said no problem, he'd take the bus.
And so, he came. I taught about Jesus Christ, and Romans 10:9. and how as Sons of God, we had access to God's throne of grace to ask for help in time of need. He was very happy to have come to our fellowship, and was not the least bit bothered by my WOW bro who constantly picked at his bare feet toe nails with devious intensity through out the entire fellowship -->
After the meeting part was over, and we all were talking over coffee, the subject of cars came up. He asked me what kind of car I drove. I told him that it was a 1966 VW fastback, but that it wasn't running at the moment. Then he said (and I .... you not) with his inner city African American dialect;
"Well, I have a car, and if you want, you can have it." And I, dumbfounded, looked at him and said; "What did you say Vernon?" as my WOW sistahs and brother looked at him with jaws dropped. And he says; "Well, I have a car, and it ain't dat bad, and actually it's pretty good, but really, I don't want to keep it because what I really want is a Corvair, and besides dat, my Momma wants that car to give to her boyfriend, and he da same age as me!" And there was fire in his eyes at the mention of his Momma's boyfriend.
And so, with extreme excitement bubbling just below the surface, as calmly as I could, I asked; "What kind of car is it Vernon?" And he said again; "Well, it ain't dat good, but really it's really nice! And Jonny, it's yours if you want it." And so I said; Why thank you Vernon. And so, what is it?" And with a grin, he says;
"Well, it's a 1967 Buick Wildcat with a 430 cubic inch engine with a four barrel carburetor. It has dual exhaust and new whitewall tires. It has 'lectric seats and 'lectric windows. It has a nice air conditioning system and a good stereo. And one other thing Jonny, it's gold. Painted gold, and it's yours if you want to have it..
Well, I was dumbfounded. I was so amazed that I didn't know what to say. I just sat there like a duck. But then he produced the key to all of our amazement, and, gave it to me as he thanked me for our fellowship which helped him so much during his time of need. The next day, I picked up the car over in Watts, and later, me, Vernon, my WOW family, and the other four WOWs piled on in and we went for a cruise down Hollywood Blvd, and Sunset Strip feeling like Brothers of The King of Kings and Lord of Lords! I swear to God it happened as I just told it, and it was beautiful man, just beautiful...
Was it magic? Naww! To me, it was Ephesians 3:20 personified... :)-->
Oh, and Strange Tom, concerning sheetrock. I just finished up a union job hangin lots of rock on a middle school remodel. And this Monday, I and going to start a new job with the Union company I work for, hanging 1000 sheets of twelve foot 5/8's inch thick (the heavy commercial stuff) rock. This will last 2 and a half months.
Be careful what you wish for! You could get healed or something, and some ace sheetrocker might come along and ask you for some help!!
But really I am getting tired of it. I am forty eight, and have been doing this on and off since '77. After awhile I will quit it and go and catch another ship. Maybe this time to the Far East...
Ahhh, and I'd sail the Seven Seas with you too Tom Strange! We could cross the Equator and become "Shellbacks" together, and kiss King Neptunes belly!!!
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J0nny Ling0
You are exactly right my Strange friend Tom. Yet you will notice that when I posted my opinion about the Harry Potter books, that I left out any Biblical opinion until later.
I started out stating my beliefs about "trendy-ism", and how since I was a little kid in fifth grade, I thought it weird and "lemming like" when all of the kids were reading The Hobbit. And, that was my belief at that time, and that this belief of mine has continued throughout my life, even throughout and well past my "TWI Years".
Ok, I confess, I said that I never wanted to stand in line with a bunch of "Spock ear wearing Star Trek droolers", which could in fact be offensive. But, from this non Biblical perspective, this is my stated belief. I actually do believe that it is ridiculous the way people jump on these media promoted bandwagons, and this includes the rush to Harry Potter books, and that is my belief. I mean, geez, the people in the little town of Haines Alaska, where we just moved from had a "Harry Potter Day" at the Public Library, and all of the local witches (and I mean that literally) showed up with their brooms and witch costumes to have a "great time" with the local kids fer gawds sake!
Well, I gotta go to work now. Another ten hours of hanging sheetrock. Uggh! Now, how did I get into the belief that hanging sheetrock is a good thing? Well for now, it does pay the bills....
What do you do for money Tom?
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Tom Strange
I wish I could hang sheetrock! really I do... but the old back won't allow it... I'm like that Mel Brooks character... what was his name? Count de Money?
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LG
Tom, I know that's not what you meant, but you implied it just as much as some others in this thread implied the things they were accused of implying.
It's pretty standard, though not universal, Christian doctrine that Jesus saved Christians from going to hell, that the key to that salvation is believing in and accepting Jesus as lord and savior, and that there is no other way to salvation. That doctrine implies that anyone who believes differently is going to hell, so any Christian who accepts that doctrine and says the things Jonny suggested is implying that anyone who believes differently is going to hell. Add in your response to him and what do you have?
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karmicdebt
Jane, you ignorant sl ut?
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Tom Strange
I love that Karmic...
LG... I guess we'll just have to disagree here... I promoted "state your case/cause/belief and leave others out of it"... they stated their case/cause/belief and also made statements about others...
so I guess we'll just disagree... I don't see it...
visualize whirrlled peas
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diazbro
I think all the sorcery in the Potter books (at least the early ones) was just a methaphor. The storyline has it that this kid was from this miserable background and was living with people who despised him and he was basically incapable to do anything about it but then discovered his "powers" which allowed him to leave and be recognized as being special. I think any kid who has had a tough time growing up has thought like this a time or two. I think the author just expanded signficantly on that theme.
The appeal of the Potter books and the Star Wars movies both make me think of how TWI pitched the advanced class to people as if you could be "tapped in operating all nine all the time" as if your walk with God was this ongoing conversation with some voice on the other line always telling you what to do when to do it no matter how insignificant it was.
"Oh dear, should we have the chicken and rice or the beef and rice. I know ,I'll reach into Daddy's cookie jar to find out". This is not an understatement at all. I knew plenty of people who readily admitted to living like this (where they were getting "answers" from who knows) and
they were so afraid of making even the most basic of decisions without "checking with Father".
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karmicdebt
THANK YOU!
I am still trying to understand the difference between a love potion and a prayer that says, "Thank you Father for working in his heart to fall in love with me in the name of Jesus Christ"
Do folks really think it is pure and Godly because the add in the name of Jesus Christ?
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Tom Strange
did you ever do that KarmicOne?
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karmicdebt
No darlin' they were fallin' at my feet...
:)-->
But seriously...there were so many things...cars, cash, love, clothes, you name it we felt entitled "in Christ"...
Sounds like a magic spell to me.....
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Tom
Regarding offenses, it must be recognized that we've been talking about two different things here. One is giving offense; the other is people being offended.
Jesus said that anyone who wasn't offended in him was blessed.
Paul said before Caesar's judgment seat, "Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple, nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all."
Obviously, taking into account where Paul made that statement - Caesar's judgment seat - many to whom Paul offended nothing at all as he preached Jesus Christ, were nevertheless offended.
It is inevitable that offenses will come.
Some people will be offended at Jesus Christ no matter how inoffensively he is presented.
That the one who was delivered for our offenses should be offensively preached, or that those, who being inoffensively told about the one who was delivered for their offenses, should take offense at the message - both are supremely ironic.
"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift."
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WhiteDove
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karmicdebt
No, WD I am pretty sure I understand,
"nevertheless not MY will but THINE be done.."
"and THY will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
Jesus never said, whatsoever car ye ask for in my name I will do it so long as you use it to move The Word...
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WhiteDove
I could not agree with you more Karmic as I said failure to understand scripture.
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karmicdebt
lucky me!
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J0nny Ling0
Karmic, you said;
And now, I just gotta tell you this. This really happened, and I don't think it was a magic spell. Please take a moment to read this.
Ok. When I was a WOW in South Central Los Angeles in 76/77, my VW fastback broke down. This was the only car our WOW fam had. I was really bummed because it was the trans axle (VW word for transmission), and how could a WOW in LA move the Word without a car, I thought. At least we needed it to go to the beach for "beach outreach" which translated meant looking at the girls in bikinis...
Anyway, one day, while working on the damned thing and trying to fix it, I got frustrated and threw down my wrench down and crawled out from under the car. I wiped what grease I could from my hands and stormed into our apartment. Only my two WOW sistahs were home, and they saw the serious look on my face.
The family coordinator, Kathy V*issem, looked at me and said; "What?" And I said; "We are gonna pray. Let's hold hands". They looked at me like I was nuts because my hands were greasy, but they went along with it. And I prayed to God that someone would GIVE me a car, that my VW was a piece of sh it, and if Sc*tt Fa*st could put an ad in the paper that said; "Fellowship leader needs car, please call" and then someone answered the ad and gave him a car,, then surely God, you could send someone to give me a car too. And then I went back outside to clean up my tools and come back in for a shower.
The very next day, I was out talking to people in Centinela Park and inviting them to Twig. That is when I met Vernon Patterson Brown III. Vernon was a young black man from a really screwed up family. He lived over in Watts, and he had just split up with his wife. I invited him to twig. I told him that I couldn't pick him up, but he said no problem, he'd take the bus.
And so, he came. I taught about Jesus Christ, and Romans 10:9. and how as Sons of God, we had access to God's throne of grace to ask for help in time of need. He was very happy to have come to our fellowship, and was not the least bit bothered by my WOW bro who constantly picked at his bare feet toe nails with devious intensity through out the entire fellowship
-->
After the meeting part was over, and we all were talking over coffee, the subject of cars came up. He asked me what kind of car I drove. I told him that it was a 1966 VW fastback, but that it wasn't running at the moment. Then he said (and I .... you not) with his inner city African American dialect;
"Well, I have a car, and if you want, you can have it." And I, dumbfounded, looked at him and said; "What did you say Vernon?" as my WOW sistahs and brother looked at him with jaws dropped. And he says; "Well, I have a car, and it ain't dat bad, and actually it's pretty good, but really, I don't want to keep it because what I really want is a Corvair, and besides dat, my Momma wants that car to give to her boyfriend, and he da same age as me!" And there was fire in his eyes at the mention of his Momma's boyfriend.
And so, with extreme excitement bubbling just below the surface, as calmly as I could, I asked; "What kind of car is it Vernon?" And he said again; "Well, it ain't dat good, but really it's really nice! And Jonny, it's yours if you want it." And so I said; Why thank you Vernon. And so, what is it?" And with a grin, he says;
"Well, it's a 1967 Buick Wildcat with a 430 cubic inch engine with a four barrel carburetor. It has dual exhaust and new whitewall tires. It has 'lectric seats and 'lectric windows. It has a nice air conditioning system and a good stereo. And one other thing Jonny, it's gold. Painted gold, and it's yours if you want to have it..
Well, I was dumbfounded. I was so amazed that I didn't know what to say. I just sat there like a duck. But then he produced the key to all of our amazement, and, gave it to me as he thanked me for our fellowship which helped him so much during his time of need. The next day, I picked up the car over in Watts, and later, me, Vernon, my WOW family, and the other four WOWs piled on in and we went for a cruise down Hollywood Blvd, and Sunset Strip feeling like Brothers of The King of Kings and Lord of Lords! I swear to God it happened as I just told it, and it was beautiful man, just beautiful...
Was it magic? Naww! To me, it was Ephesians 3:20 personified...
:)-->
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J0nny Ling0
Oh, and Strange Tom, concerning sheetrock. I just finished up a union job hangin lots of rock on a middle school remodel. And this Monday, I and going to start a new job with the Union company I work for, hanging 1000 sheets of twelve foot 5/8's inch thick (the heavy commercial stuff) rock. This will last 2 and a half months.
Be careful what you wish for! You could get healed or something, and some ace sheetrocker might come along and ask you for some help!!
But really I am getting tired of it. I am forty eight, and have been doing this on and off since '77. After awhile I will quit it and go and catch another ship. Maybe this time to the Far East...
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Tom Strange
coolness... coolness... if able, I'd hang rock with you any day Lingoman! ...'course, I'd rather sail the seven seas!
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J0nny Ling0
Ahhh, and I'd sail the Seven Seas with you too Tom Strange! We could cross the Equator and become "Shellbacks" together, and kiss King Neptunes belly!!!
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