But then Wierwille said "putting it all together so that it fit -- that was the original work."
I don't quite agree with vics assessment of the situation.
"Putting it all together so that I could have a product to SELL" would be a little more honest, in my opinion.
I read enough about B.G. in this regard. B.G.'s work was intended- for men to come, improve themselves, return to their churches, and make a difference.
Not to go back and sell some stinking class..
Good grief.
vic turned it into a marketable "commodity".
Personally, I think B.G. sat back, and waited to see if it was of God, if it would "come to nothing".. history bears out the fact that it did..
Within one generation, vic's name will likely pass into obscurity. Cripe, he is only named today by those he screwed- for the most part.
There a few more things to consider now that we have some consensus that VP did indeed plagiarize which used to be the major blocking point in the past.
Some other posters have made these points also so they aren't original but I
wanted to post them from point of view.
1) Were someone to publish and sell a book under a different title which contained near identical content to say RTHS then TWI would object to that (assumming they found out about it) and seek to stop it since they own a copyright on that material. So the argument that it doesn't matter who gets the credit would not fly with TWI who would most assuredly seek to stop distribution and lodge a claim of plaigiarism. So TWI would certainly have a problem with that (Even though they don't really have a *moral* right to since
VPW lifted from others). Still they own the copyright so they could pursue you and most definitely would espcecially if it made any money.
As I recall they published many of those titles under the publishing name of "american christian press" which is very deceptive since it suggests an independent clearinghouse when it was not. It was TWI's vanity press.
2) It is %100 sure that were I to have learned of VPW's plagiarism say in 74 I definitely would have changed my thinking and commitment to TWI. I wouldn't have accepted anything less than a complete explanation as to the extent of it. Also I certainly would have wanted to see the proof before I assummed that it was true. I don't know how anyone can say that knowledge of the wrongdoing would NOT have changed anything. Here is someone claiming to be teaching the word like it hadn't been since the 1st century yet he is lifting from others ? That wouldn't make any sense at all and would call into question VPW's allegations that he came up with all the PFAL material using the bible as his textbook.
As stated previously VPW devotees seem to confuse the content of PFAL as a valid substitute for "the word" even when its been proven that even the fundamental teachings such as "the law of believing" don't hold up.
So under the mistaken assumption that PFAL is something special they feel it acceptable to ignore the lying and dishonesty in favor of preserving the legend of PFAL and the good feelings they get when they think of the "good ole days". I don't miss being young as much as others might especially those in love with their youth as it relates to TWI. I had some great times and met some cool people but those people get the credit NOT TWI. Thanks but I'd rather be who I am now than suspend reality just to protect my memories of yesteryear. Thats just BSing yourself which is fine but don't expect others to go for it.
Remember the Unification Church ? The Reverend Moon outfit ? They had this concept called "divine deception" that permitted ANY type of lying or deception on the part of an agent of the church as long as it involved activity to recruit and/or maintain members. When I hear of former Way folks who willingly excuse behavior in VPW that they wouldn't excuse in their friends or family members I
think they too are practicing a form of "divine deception". They are lying to themselves and others by saying that "it doesn't matter if he stole or not".
What was it that VPW "Taught" in PFAL about the serpent. "He omitted a word, he added a word".
Or the crucifixion ? "What difference does it make if he died on Friday " ? VPW had a totally intolerant attitude towards people who accepted even minor flaws
in "logic" yet he himself was guilty of things that would have ended his career had he attempted a thesis at a REAL university. So by VPW's own logic he fails to pass muster. He stole from someone else so when the VPW supporter says "what difference does it make ?" remind him or her of VPW's own statements and attitudes about "the details" and "what difference" they make.
VeePee couldn't give any of the credit to the others, ever... if he did then he wouldn't have "the corner on the market" that he claimed to have... if he did, then he wouldn't be able to position himself at the top, the focus of all attention and adulation... veepee couldn't do that because most important to him was your love and your money... (not necessarily in that order)
Oldies, I own all 10 books by Bullinger including job, Revelation, Ten Sermons on 2nd coming, Hebrews 11,plus the ones you mentioned;
Ruben Archer Torrey = Power Filled Living(including difficulties of the Bible), and What the Bible Teaches; Alber Benjamin Simpson's
The Holy Spirit/Power from on High, 1st Centuary Church in the Book of Acts; Lester Sumrall = Gifts and Ministies of the Holy Spirit,and Spirit/Soul/Body; not counting Kenyon's 2 books on Bible Courses, David Ireland,Sam Storms,Smith Wigglesworth, Dennis Bennett, Derek Prince, Nicky Gumbel, Neil Anderson, etc. just to name a few authors. Also Kenneths' Hagin and Copeland.
My maternal grandfather was a musician. He used to be a piano player in movie theatres before talkies existed. You know...keystone cops music, sad music, all that stuff. That's how he met my grandma; she came to the theatre a lot and sat in the front row. He noticed her.
My mom told me he wrote a song called 'All the world will be jealous of me' and he tried to sell it, but it was stolen by a man named Ernest Ball. I've bought guitar picks with the name Ernest Ball on them. Hmm.
The 1940s version of the movie "Phantom of the Opera" (Claude Rains as the POTO) has a scene where the phantom before he was the phantom was a composer who tried to submit music for publication, but the man he submitted it to crossed out the phantom's name and wrote his own on it.
It is common knowledge that blues rock groups like the Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc. have played songs written by Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, etc. Sometimes they credit the writer by name; sometimes they credit "traditional" as the writer. Sometimes they credit themselves. Either way, more people have heard the Stones and Led Zep than Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson. They made more $ too. This makes the plagiarism issue more complex.
VP got his product out to more people than BG Leonard or Stiles. Do you people really believe that someday God is going to pat you on the back and say, "Well done thou good and faithful servant or son or whatever!" just because you can list and categorize and color code VPs sins like you have?
VP got his product out to more people than BG Leonard or Stiles. Do you people really believe that someday God is going to pat you on the back and say, "Well done thou good and faithful servant or son or whatever!" just because you can list and categorize and color code VPs sins like you have?
Nope. He might do it because I wasn't a dishonest intellectual thief, though.
Interestingly, I just did a search on Ernest Ball. He lived from 1878 to 1927. He's in the songwriter's hall of fame. He is credited with "Irish eyes are smiling". His discography does not list a song called "All the world will be jealous of me" but it does list a song called "Love me and the world is mine" which could have easily been what the original title was changed into.
And if this guy did steal my grandfather's song, then he could have done the same with any and all the rest of the songs credited to him. But so what? I'm not being faceteous. So what? Ernest Ball is dead; my grandfather is dead. What would be accomplished by anyone trying to discredit Ernest Ball almost 80 yrs after his death. Kinda makes you wonder what other famous works might have been stolen.
You know I always found it interesting when I first became involved with the Way they used to carry many of those books in the bookstore,Kenyon,Bulinger,Welch and others. Then they disappeared as the PFAL books became more prominent. At the time I did not really think much about it because at least on tapes and live teachings VP did give acknowledgement to them. He should have footnoted it in the books. Awile back I was talking to St*v* S*nn about BG Leonard. And that whole mess when BG came to Hdq the year VPW died. It was st*v* that invited him. He says with trustee approval. It was Craig that fipped out when he saw people gathered around him. Even though Craig had been president for awile now that VP was out of the picture, I think all Craig saw was people leaving after other ministries. Craig did what he had seen done years before which was get rid of the origional. Just like the books disappeared did so did BG. St*v* said he was supposed to speak at the rock but Craig canned it.
Okay, some of you guys don't think plagiarism is wrong, or feel that it's justified, great, but it's still plagiarism.
Some of you feel that the off the cuff mentioning of great men that Wierwille said he learned from is a substitute for attribution, great.
I did not hear about the plagiarism until I was in my last year in TWI. But I really think that if I had known about it early on, it would have made a big difference for me. Here's why:
I never thought VP was perfect. I never thought that everything that came out of his mouth was god-breathed. But I did tend to give him the benefit of the doubt in areas that I didn't quite understand, because he successfully portrayed himself as a godly researcher. If I had known about the plagiarism within the first few years of joining up, I doubt that I would have given him that benefit, and would have put up with a lot less.
Oldiesman, I first have to say I sincerely hope that the leg is on the mend nicely.
Now as for your posts on this thread:
quote:
And so according to Mr. Babbie, VPW then plagiarized everything because he used others ideas and didn't give proper written acknowledgement.
And I still say, so what?
It would have made a big difference to me to have known him to be a thief when I was led to believe that I owed my loyalty to him and his ministry because God had taught him to teach the Word of God like it had not been taught since the first century.
If I had known that he had lifted what he taught from others works rather being taught by God as he said he was then I wouldn't have been brought under the bondage of the pontifications of him and his minions.
Oldiesman continues:
"Because even had Wierwille given proper written acknowledgement in all his books, would that have caused any of us to do anything any different way back when?
Would we have flocked to other ministries?
Flocked to other causes?
Would we have given less money to twi?
Not taken PFAL, not gone WOW, not gone Corps.
Gotten less committed because we saw proper written acknowledgement in the books?
I trow not."
Perhaps some of us would have done these things had we known but we would have done them with our eyes open rather than being deceived into thinking that VPW was some modern day Apostle Paul and that twi was the holy of holies in the sight of God. Heck, some of us might have had lives, careers, been able to follow our passions and gifts, lived in our own homes instead of acquiesing to group-think.
Do you people really believe that someday God is going to pat you on the back and say, "Well done thou good and faithful servant or son or whatever!" just because you can list and categorize and color code VPs sins like you have?
Well, if it detours one person's path from TWI, perhaps..
But, here is the double-standard again. Good for us commoners to get reamed a new one for reading "throroughly"- but apparently too good for "da teacher" being confronted (alas, posthumously) for being a lying, thieving scumbag..
If the shoe fits, I say we go down next to the fountain, do a little digging, and put it on. I think it will fit.
Sadly, I found out that it fit, long after he was dead and buried.
Perhaps some of us would have done these things had we known but we would have done them with our eyes open rather than being deceived into thinking that VPW was some modern day Apostle Paul and that twi was the holy of holies in the sight of God. Heck, some of us might have had lives, careers, been able to follow our passions and gifts, lived in our own homes instead of acquiesing to group-think.
When I was younger I didn't quite understand the significance of something being plagiarized. Then I met someone who did his PhD. He worked his butt off for a number of years researching work that had been done in his field, researching his own original work and then writing his dissertation. His bibliography was huge! There were pages of sited works that he read and that he quoted from. He had to site works that he read even if he didn't quote from them. His work would not have been accepted, nor acceptable if he hadn't given credit. Yet, here is a man of God who taught Godly standards, who expected others to have Godly standards, yet lied about all of his research, his books and his visitation from God and made his living from those lies.
Now, keeping in mind that I didn't quite understand the significance of plagiarization back then, however I did understand what it meant when someone lied or stole. It meant that they were not trustworthy. I believe had I known back then that the good doctor had taken other's works as his own, I would not have swallowed hook, line and sinker all of what he taught. That element of distrust, at least, would have overshadowed everything that he taught. Which, incidentlly, was my reaction to his words once I found out about his works! And most likely, I would have not stayed in the ministy as long.
Do you people really believe that someday God is going to pat you on the back and say, "Well done thou good and faithful servant or son or whatever!" just because you can list and categorize and color code VPs sins like you have?
Do you really think God is going to say to VPW "Well done though good and faithful servant" just because he stole his best material from someone else, passed it off as his own, and made a heap of money under the premise that he was teaching "the word" as it hadn't been since the 1st century church ?
Its entirely reasonable that VPW would be examined since he was the key figure in Way history. I suppose that there are those who wish to protect his legacy and perhaps not think of him in a bad light but those with a concern for truth might not be comfortable with that approach.
The fact is that in the years since his death there has been considerable information about his "Walk" that strongly suggests that he wasn't as concerned about the "renewed mind" or "putting off the old man nature" as he claimed to be. His sense of entitlement and self-importance outweighed any moral concerns he might have about plagiarism as well as sexual intimidation and abuse.
VPW very much wanted the attention he got and for the large part of his existence in TWI he received the adulation and admiration he so craved though he was not open and honest about a great many things including his supposed original research that led to the establishment of TWI which became quite a profitable enterprise.
He set himself apart so I don't see any problems with looking at his actions. As far as "color coding" his sins I don't think they have that many colors. BUT ,speaking of colors, I do notice that Weirwille supporters see everything in "shades of gray" when it comes to VPW's behavior but they see only black and white when it comes to the behavior of others.
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WordWolf
It was part of the whole package. We were sold the whole package. That package was of a religious organization that was unique in that its authority and teaching were solely from the Bible, and wh
Ham
I don't quite agree with vics assessment of the situation.
"Putting it all together so that I could have a product to SELL" would be a little more honest, in my opinion.
I read enough about B.G. in this regard. B.G.'s work was intended- for men to come, improve themselves, return to their churches, and make a difference.
Not to go back and sell some stinking class..
Good grief.
vic turned it into a marketable "commodity".
Personally, I think B.G. sat back, and waited to see if it was of God, if it would "come to nothing".. history bears out the fact that it did..
Within one generation, vic's name will likely pass into obscurity. Cripe, he is only named today by those he screwed- for the most part.
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diazbro
There a few more things to consider now that we have some consensus that VP did indeed plagiarize which used to be the major blocking point in the past.
Some other posters have made these points also so they aren't original but I
wanted to post them from point of view.
1) Were someone to publish and sell a book under a different title which contained near identical content to say RTHS then TWI would object to that (assumming they found out about it) and seek to stop it since they own a copyright on that material. So the argument that it doesn't matter who gets the credit would not fly with TWI who would most assuredly seek to stop distribution and lodge a claim of plaigiarism. So TWI would certainly have a problem with that (Even though they don't really have a *moral* right to since
VPW lifted from others). Still they own the copyright so they could pursue you and most definitely would espcecially if it made any money.
As I recall they published many of those titles under the publishing name of "american christian press" which is very deceptive since it suggests an independent clearinghouse when it was not. It was TWI's vanity press.
2) It is %100 sure that were I to have learned of VPW's plagiarism say in 74 I definitely would have changed my thinking and commitment to TWI. I wouldn't have accepted anything less than a complete explanation as to the extent of it. Also I certainly would have wanted to see the proof before I assummed that it was true. I don't know how anyone can say that knowledge of the wrongdoing would NOT have changed anything. Here is someone claiming to be teaching the word like it hadn't been since the 1st century yet he is lifting from others ? That wouldn't make any sense at all and would call into question VPW's allegations that he came up with all the PFAL material using the bible as his textbook.
As stated previously VPW devotees seem to confuse the content of PFAL as a valid substitute for "the word" even when its been proven that even the fundamental teachings such as "the law of believing" don't hold up.
So under the mistaken assumption that PFAL is something special they feel it acceptable to ignore the lying and dishonesty in favor of preserving the legend of PFAL and the good feelings they get when they think of the "good ole days". I don't miss being young as much as others might especially those in love with their youth as it relates to TWI. I had some great times and met some cool people but those people get the credit NOT TWI. Thanks but I'd rather be who I am now than suspend reality just to protect my memories of yesteryear. Thats just BSing yourself which is fine but don't expect others to go for it.
Remember the Unification Church ? The Reverend Moon outfit ? They had this concept called "divine deception" that permitted ANY type of lying or deception on the part of an agent of the church as long as it involved activity to recruit and/or maintain members. When I hear of former Way folks who willingly excuse behavior in VPW that they wouldn't excuse in their friends or family members I
think they too are practicing a form of "divine deception". They are lying to themselves and others by saying that "it doesn't matter if he stole or not".
What was it that VPW "Taught" in PFAL about the serpent. "He omitted a word, he added a word".
Or the crucifixion ? "What difference does it make if he died on Friday " ? VPW had a totally intolerant attitude towards people who accepted even minor flaws
in "logic" yet he himself was guilty of things that would have ended his career had he attempted a thesis at a REAL university. So by VPW's own logic he fails to pass muster. He stole from someone else so when the VPW supporter says "what difference does it make ?" remind him or her of VPW's own statements and attitudes about "the details" and "what difference" they make.
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Tom Strange
VeePee couldn't give any of the credit to the others, ever... if he did then he wouldn't have "the corner on the market" that he claimed to have... if he did, then he wouldn't be able to position himself at the top, the focus of all attention and adulation... veepee couldn't do that because most important to him was your love and your money... (not necessarily in that order)
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
Oldies, I own all 10 books by Bullinger including job, Revelation, Ten Sermons on 2nd coming, Hebrews 11,plus the ones you mentioned;
Ruben Archer Torrey = Power Filled Living(including difficulties of the Bible), and What the Bible Teaches; Alber Benjamin Simpson's
The Holy Spirit/Power from on High, 1st Centuary Church in the Book of Acts; Lester Sumrall = Gifts and Ministies of the Holy Spirit,and Spirit/Soul/Body; not counting Kenyon's 2 books on Bible Courses, David Ireland,Sam Storms,Smith Wigglesworth, Dennis Bennett, Derek Prince, Nicky Gumbel, Neil Anderson, etc. just to name a few authors. Also Kenneths' Hagin and Copeland.
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oldiesman
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Ham
What about Charles Welch? From what I understand, vic HEAVILY relied on his works- especially for corps teachings..
I never even heard of Welch until five years after I left the organization.
Did vic do the same thing to Welch?
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Raf
Hey wait a minute!
WordWolf, I've got a bone to pick with you!
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Raf
WordWolf...
Does it bother you? Does it gnaw at your insides?Link to comment
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Ham
My, the angry Mr. Smilies are actually glowing in the dark..
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johniam
My maternal grandfather was a musician. He used to be a piano player in movie theatres before talkies existed. You know...keystone cops music, sad music, all that stuff. That's how he met my grandma; she came to the theatre a lot and sat in the front row. He noticed her.
My mom told me he wrote a song called 'All the world will be jealous of me' and he tried to sell it, but it was stolen by a man named Ernest Ball. I've bought guitar picks with the name Ernest Ball on them. Hmm.
The 1940s version of the movie "Phantom of the Opera" (Claude Rains as the POTO) has a scene where the phantom before he was the phantom was a composer who tried to submit music for publication, but the man he submitted it to crossed out the phantom's name and wrote his own on it.
It is common knowledge that blues rock groups like the Stones, Led Zeppelin, etc. have played songs written by Muddy Waters, Robert Johnson, etc. Sometimes they credit the writer by name; sometimes they credit "traditional" as the writer. Sometimes they credit themselves. Either way, more people have heard the Stones and Led Zep than Muddy Waters and Robert Johnson. They made more $ too. This makes the plagiarism issue more complex.
VP got his product out to more people than BG Leonard or Stiles. Do you people really believe that someday God is going to pat you on the back and say, "Well done thou good and faithful servant or son or whatever!" just because you can list and categorize and color code VPs sins like you have?
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Raf
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Raf
Nope. He might do it because I wasn't a dishonest intellectual thief, though.
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Tom Strange
OH NO!!!!
WW is a plagiarist!
VP is a plagiarist!
WW is VP!!!
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johniam
Interestingly, I just did a search on Ernest Ball. He lived from 1878 to 1927. He's in the songwriter's hall of fame. He is credited with "Irish eyes are smiling". His discography does not list a song called "All the world will be jealous of me" but it does list a song called "Love me and the world is mine" which could have easily been what the original title was changed into.
And if this guy did steal my grandfather's song, then he could have done the same with any and all the rest of the songs credited to him. But so what? I'm not being faceteous. So what? Ernest Ball is dead; my grandfather is dead. What would be accomplished by anyone trying to discredit Ernest Ball almost 80 yrs after his death. Kinda makes you wonder what other famous works might have been stolen.
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WhiteDove
You know I always found it interesting when I first became involved with the Way they used to carry many of those books in the bookstore,Kenyon,Bulinger,Welch and others. Then they disappeared as the PFAL books became more prominent. At the time I did not really think much about it because at least on tapes and live teachings VP did give acknowledgement to them. He should have footnoted it in the books. Awile back I was talking to St*v* S*nn about BG Leonard. And that whole mess when BG came to Hdq the year VPW died. It was st*v* that invited him. He says with trustee approval. It was Craig that fipped out when he saw people gathered around him. Even though Craig had been president for awile now that VP was out of the picture, I think all Craig saw was people leaving after other ministries. Craig did what he had seen done years before which was get rid of the origional. Just like the books disappeared did so did BG. St*v* said he was supposed to speak at the rock but Craig canned it.
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Oakspear
Okay, some of you guys don't think plagiarism is wrong, or feel that it's justified, great, but it's still plagiarism.
Some of you feel that the off the cuff mentioning of great men that Wierwille said he learned from is a substitute for attribution, great.
I did not hear about the plagiarism until I was in my last year in TWI. But I really think that if I had known about it early on, it would have made a big difference for me. Here's why:
I never thought VP was perfect. I never thought that everything that came out of his mouth was god-breathed. But I did tend to give him the benefit of the doubt in areas that I didn't quite understand, because he successfully portrayed himself as a godly researcher. If I had known about the plagiarism within the first few years of joining up, I doubt that I would have given him that benefit, and would have put up with a lot less.
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oenophile
Oldiesman, I first have to say I sincerely hope that the leg is on the mend nicely.
Now as for your posts on this thread:
It would have made a big difference to me to have known him to be a thief when I was led to believe that I owed my loyalty to him and his ministry because God had taught him to teach the Word of God like it had not been taught since the first century.
If I had known that he had lifted what he taught from others works rather being taught by God as he said he was then I wouldn't have been brought under the bondage of the pontifications of him and his minions.
Oldiesman continues:
"Because even had Wierwille given proper written acknowledgement in all his books, would that have caused any of us to do anything any different way back when?
Would we have flocked to other ministries?
Flocked to other causes?
Would we have given less money to twi?
Not taken PFAL, not gone WOW, not gone Corps.
Gotten less committed because we saw proper written acknowledgement in the books?
I trow not."
Perhaps some of us would have done these things had we known but we would have done them with our eyes open rather than being deceived into thinking that VPW was some modern day Apostle Paul and that twi was the holy of holies in the sight of God. Heck, some of us might have had lives, careers, been able to follow our passions and gifts, lived in our own homes instead of acquiesing to group-think.
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Ham
Well, if it detours one person's path from TWI, perhaps..
But, here is the double-standard again. Good for us commoners to get reamed a new one for reading "throroughly"- but apparently too good for "da teacher" being confronted (alas, posthumously) for being a lying, thieving scumbag..
If the shoe fits, I say we go down next to the fountain, do a little digging, and put it on. I think it will fit.
Sadly, I found out that it fit, long after he was dead and buried.
It wasn't his product.
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Tom Strange
The wine man said:
Can I get an amen?Link to comment
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gc
My two cents worth, what ever they are worth.
When I was younger I didn't quite understand the significance of something being plagiarized. Then I met someone who did his PhD. He worked his butt off for a number of years researching work that had been done in his field, researching his own original work and then writing his dissertation. His bibliography was huge! There were pages of sited works that he read and that he quoted from. He had to site works that he read even if he didn't quote from them. His work would not have been accepted, nor acceptable if he hadn't given credit. Yet, here is a man of God who taught Godly standards, who expected others to have Godly standards, yet lied about all of his research, his books and his visitation from God and made his living from those lies.
Now, keeping in mind that I didn't quite understand the significance of plagiarization back then, however I did understand what it meant when someone lied or stole. It meant that they were not trustworthy. I believe had I known back then that the good doctor had taken other's works as his own, I would not have swallowed hook, line and sinker all of what he taught. That element of distrust, at least, would have overshadowed everything that he taught. Which, incidentlly, was my reaction to his words once I found out about his works! And most likely, I would have not stayed in the ministy as long.
gc
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gc
Tom, Amen!
:)-->
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diazbro
Do you really think God is going to say to VPW "Well done though good and faithful servant" just because he stole his best material from someone else, passed it off as his own, and made a heap of money under the premise that he was teaching "the word" as it hadn't been since the 1st century church ?
Its entirely reasonable that VPW would be examined since he was the key figure in Way history. I suppose that there are those who wish to protect his legacy and perhaps not think of him in a bad light but those with a concern for truth might not be comfortable with that approach.
The fact is that in the years since his death there has been considerable information about his "Walk" that strongly suggests that he wasn't as concerned about the "renewed mind" or "putting off the old man nature" as he claimed to be. His sense of entitlement and self-importance outweighed any moral concerns he might have about plagiarism as well as sexual intimidation and abuse.
VPW very much wanted the attention he got and for the large part of his existence in TWI he received the adulation and admiration he so craved though he was not open and honest about a great many things including his supposed original research that led to the establishment of TWI which became quite a profitable enterprise.
He set himself apart so I don't see any problems with looking at his actions. As far as "color coding" his sins I don't think they have that many colors. BUT ,speaking of colors, I do notice that Weirwille supporters see everything in "shades of gray" when it comes to VPW's behavior but they see only black and white when it comes to the behavior of others.
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rascal
Tom n oen.... AMEN brotha!
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WordWolf
Sorry Raf,
I should have asked you BEFORE I pulled my little stunt.
I thought an ILLUSTRATION would make the point clear.
It's WRONG to take someone else's work, change a few words,
maybe leave out a little, then claim you originated it.
(You do that by failing to give proper attribution.)
Plagiarism is morally wrong, AND illegal.
Plagiarism demonstrates a moral failing on the part of the plagiarist.
When the plagiarist claims to represent God, it shows a deliberate moral failing
that shows he is unworthy of trust.
Actually, in pulling my little stunt,
I thought the extensive quote would be spotted immediately by everyone,
since it was right off the main website.
I thought people would see my point, which was in the closing
of that post, which was the only part NOT ripped off from Raf...
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