Believe it or not I HAVE THE SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM...are ya'll sitting down?? LOL...Simply this...have a couple of squad cars armed with a "harpoon" shooting gun....complete with cable & winch...harpoon the getway car in the trucnk & reel them in!! Most likely the car spotting the offender won't be the one armed with the harpoon..but that car could be summoned perhaps & be the one to apprehend the suspect..without totoally ruining the car....Just an idea!! JJ
STL, I'd hardly compare people suing over spilling hot coffer on themselves or getting fat eating fast food to losing a child because of a possibly unnecessary police chase.
I'm looking for fresh new ideas/solutions here, like the one proposed by 2nd James. I think perhaps you've been watching too much Inspector Gadget, JJ, :D--> but I think you're on the right track. There's gotta be a better way.
State Police and members of the Sheriff's Department have tools they can use that a city police department doesn't have...such as the things they throw across roads to puncture tires. Helicopters can help too in many cases.
Many cities have laws against police chases except in very rare circumstances...such as you the patrol officer saw the vehicle involved in the hit and run and you take off after it.
When it comes to police, nobody's happy with their work. If a policeman doesn't always catch the bad guy, citizens claim crime is increasing. If they do discharge their weapon and miss the bad guy and the bullet shatters the A&P window the store manager has a fit that the cops aren't careful. All of us owe a debt of gratitude to all the police for whatever they can do to maintain property and peace and I think many of us should stop judging too.
Krys, I'm sorry if you think I'm "judging" the police. I like the police. I admire the courage it takes to do what they do. I must not be making myself clear here, because this keeps coming up.
What I'm judging is the procedures that we have in place for chasing down criminals at high speeds, resulting in the deaths of people who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The *miscreant* is the cause of it all, not the police. Why is that so hard to understand?
That part isn't hard to understand at all. That's why I said in my opening post: "Of course the car thieves and the kid with the outstanding warrant were ultimately to blame when these tragedies happened."
See, we agree. :-) I didn't start this topic to blame the police.
I'd just like to see some new technology or a new method for determining when and how police chases should be carried out, so that this wouldn't happen so often.
Linda -- you are right -- we agree. And I surely do wish that there was some new technology that would enable police better, and all this here could be avoided.
The sad fact remaining is -- it takes two to tango.
The cops wouldn't be racing after someone if there were only law-abiding citizens out there. Unfortunately for now, they do not have that newer technology, and have to do things as best they can (which I know you agree with).
Personally -- I think a helicopter with a very large magnet hanging below it would be ideal. Chopper flies over the car, picks it up, and takes it to a safer location where all can be dealt with in an orderly fashion.
No Linda - I knew you were not down on cops! I know you better than that. I was just giving the concensus of opinions in my general neck of the woods. It's a nightmare, really. People go crazy.
A few years ago, my brother was assisting in the power company in NYC. It was brutal dog days of August...one side of the street was one ethnic group...and the other side was a different one. Which didn't matter in the case of fixing the problem, but just stated to understand the end of the story.
The power was turned off and my brother and one other descended into the bowels of brooklyn to make the repair. It was hotter than hell down there and they stayed only 15 minutes followed by a mandatory 20 minute topside respite...union rules. The crowd was angry because they were not in the hole all the time.
One woman came down from 3 flights of stairs with a large bottle of iced tea, paper cups and ice, which she graciously offered the working men, and they gratefully accepted. One of her neighbors took similar care of the police blocking the traffic on the street.
She kept this up for about 4 hours while the procession of workmen did their thing down in the hole. A total of about 6 men, all different specialties worked down there.
When the job was done, and the power back on...the truck hadn't left yet...but the group across the street massed after this kind woman and some of her helping friends...they didn't get along, these neighbors....and the other ones didn't think the workmen "deserved" a cool drink. And in this neighborhood, police are fodder for anything you don't like or approve of.
No matter where you go - - when you work for large numbers of people...you can expect to be the recieving end of all kinds of insults and assaults. Nobody can keep everybody happy. Just do what you can...and move on.
I'm looking for fresh new ideas/solutions here, like the one proposed by 2nd James
I mentioned back on page one that Im pretty sure they could do some sort of electronic disabling by remote control if engineers set there mind to it, something to interrupt the electrical flow in the car or something like that ...if the problem was given to the students at MIT I bet they would come up with some interesting possibilities...They already have cars that will not start if the driver has been drinking.... but as with most things my guess is that the powers that be will do nothing until the problem is so acute that it is impossible to avoid anymore
mstar, I read online about the proposed use of something just like that. It said it's in development. I hope it succeeds, because it looks like a possible nonlethal solution.
Krys, I'm glad you didn't think that!
Yes, people can be real jerks, can't they? But how wonderful of the "ice tea" lady--just shows people can be terrific, too.
Well, I was married to a police officer for 8 years. It's a very sensitive subject for me. I can tell you they are extremely frustrated and it's aggravating being an officer, especially since you are always under scrutiny and attack. They can't win for losing. No matter what they do it isn't right, isn't safe, doesn't seem like a wise decision.....
Police officers have more and more rules and laws implemented every day that limit their effectiveness. CRIMINALS HAVE NO RULES!
They put their lives on the line EVERY DAY. EVERY traffic stop, EVERY domestic violence call, EVERY police call could put the officer in a lethal situation. They arrest bad guys all the time who are released back onto the streets because of the judicial system and because they have more rights than the arresting officers.
They ARE researching, testing and implementing new things every day. They have computers in their cars and can get information quicker, but it's still not quick enough. Police officers are expected to be perfect 100% of the time and it's just not a realistic expectation. There ARE going to be mistakes and there ARE going to be people who are wrongly killed. It's not something any officer expects to happen to him and it is something every officer hopes to NEVER happen to him.
They have good days and bad days just like everyone else. They sometimes don't sleep well; they sometimes come to work with a head cold, in a bad mood, upset over their marriage, their family, their bills....in addition to that they live every single day of work, every single minute on high alert, always watching and hyper-sensitive to the fact that any situation could become life threatening for someone, including themselves. AND most of them do it because they love the job, they love feeling like they are effecting change and helping keep the country, their city/county safe for people. God knows it ain't because of the paycheck!!!
Putting those disabling remotes in cars would be a good idea, but how many cars are on the roads and how much would YOU pay to have them put on your car? Are you also going to advocate the US becoming a real live Orwellian 1984? How much freedom are you willing to give up so that it's easier for the police to find and arrest criminals?
You try hitting a few inches moving at 80mph with a bullet. It's not that easy, AND it wouldn't blow out the tires like in the movies.
Helicopters can't be instantly in the air exactly where something is happening. It takes time. It's also extremely expensive - paid for with tax dollars that they have to fight tooth and nail to get and which usually isn't enough money to do the things they would LOVE to do.
There are some good ideas out there but they are either impractical, too expensive or would require the general public to implement themselves which they most likely aren't going to do. Most people have absolutely no idea what it's like to be an officer and why what seems like an easy answer to them actually isn't practical or a realistic expectation. Believe me, they ARE always looking at ways to make things safer, quicker, more accurate and more affordable. :)-->
It truly is a thankless job and I'm surprised we don't have a shortage of men and women willing to put up with so much b.s. for such little pay. Stepping off the soapbox now....
You try hitting a few inches moving at 80mph with a bullet. It's not that easy, AND it wouldn't blow out the tires like in the movies.
That was meant as a joke, Belle. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
Believe me, I don't envy police officers their jobs. I have a couple friends who are cops, and it's not something I'd have the courage to be.
I really didn't mean to press your buttons, and I understand why it's a sensitive subject for you. My concern is as much for the safety of the police officers as for the innocent bystanders who have been killed. I googled "high-speed chases" +fatalities and found quite a few sites that talked about the number of policemen and women who have died in these situations and quite a few officers were quoted who shared my concern.
I didn't get the joke, Linda, but I get defensive as soon as I see something negative about our law enforcement officers. :)-->
I know you weren't bashing the police. It IS frustrating trying to find the balance, but they ARE trying....all the time. Most people just want to complain about them instead of offering actual, realistic solutions or alternatives. That's not what you're doing, but even with new, practical alternatives, there will still be cases of innocent people getting hurt or killed. All are sad.
Google officers + anything and you'll find sites that bash them for whatever it is. You can find people to support whatever grief or belief you have in any category. :)-->
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Second James
Believe it or not I HAVE THE SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM...are ya'll sitting down?? LOL...Simply this...have a couple of squad cars armed with a "harpoon" shooting gun....complete with cable & winch...harpoon the getway car in the trucnk & reel them in!! Most likely the car spotting the offender won't be the one armed with the harpoon..but that car could be summoned perhaps & be the one to apprehend the suspect..without totoally ruining the car....Just an idea!! JJ
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Linda Z
STL, I'd hardly compare people suing over spilling hot coffer on themselves or getting fat eating fast food to losing a child because of a possibly unnecessary police chase.
I'm looking for fresh new ideas/solutions here, like the one proposed by 2nd James. I think perhaps you've been watching too much Inspector Gadget, JJ,
:D--> but I think you're on the right track. There's gotta be a better way.
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krys
State Police and members of the Sheriff's Department have tools they can use that a city police department doesn't have...such as the things they throw across roads to puncture tires. Helicopters can help too in many cases.
Many cities have laws against police chases except in very rare circumstances...such as you the patrol officer saw the vehicle involved in the hit and run and you take off after it.
When it comes to police, nobody's happy with their work. If a policeman doesn't always catch the bad guy, citizens claim crime is increasing. If they do discharge their weapon and miss the bad guy and the bullet shatters the A&P window the store manager has a fit that the cops aren't careful. All of us owe a debt of gratitude to all the police for whatever they can do to maintain property and peace and I think many of us should stop judging too.
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Linda Z
Krys, I'm sorry if you think I'm "judging" the police. I like the police. I admire the courage it takes to do what they do. I must not be making myself clear here, because this keeps coming up.
What I'm judging is the procedures that we have in place for chasing down criminals at high speeds, resulting in the deaths of people who just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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dmiller
Linda -- you are right -- we agree. And I surely do wish that there was some new technology that would enable police better, and all this here could be avoided.
The sad fact remaining is -- it takes two to tango.
The cops wouldn't be racing after someone if there were only law-abiding citizens out there. Unfortunately for now, they do not have that newer technology, and have to do things as best they can (which I know you agree with).
Personally -- I think a helicopter with a very large magnet hanging below it would be ideal. Chopper flies over the car, picks it up, and takes it to a safer location where all can be dealt with in an orderly fashion.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
just talked to a friend of mine who is a retired cop from d.c.
high speed chases were frowned upon
slow speed chases were the thing they were encourgaged to do
after all there is a cop car on every block.
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krys
No Linda - I knew you were not down on cops! I know you better than that. I was just giving the concensus of opinions in my general neck of the woods. It's a nightmare, really. People go crazy.
A few years ago, my brother was assisting in the power company in NYC. It was brutal dog days of August...one side of the street was one ethnic group...and the other side was a different one. Which didn't matter in the case of fixing the problem, but just stated to understand the end of the story.
The power was turned off and my brother and one other descended into the bowels of brooklyn to make the repair. It was hotter than hell down there and they stayed only 15 minutes followed by a mandatory 20 minute topside respite...union rules. The crowd was angry because they were not in the hole all the time.
One woman came down from 3 flights of stairs with a large bottle of iced tea, paper cups and ice, which she graciously offered the working men, and they gratefully accepted. One of her neighbors took similar care of the police blocking the traffic on the street.
She kept this up for about 4 hours while the procession of workmen did their thing down in the hole. A total of about 6 men, all different specialties worked down there.
When the job was done, and the power back on...the truck hadn't left yet...but the group across the street massed after this kind woman and some of her helping friends...they didn't get along, these neighbors....and the other ones didn't think the workmen "deserved" a cool drink. And in this neighborhood, police are fodder for anything you don't like or approve of.
No matter where you go - - when you work for large numbers of people...you can expect to be the recieving end of all kinds of insults and assaults. Nobody can keep everybody happy. Just do what you can...and move on.
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mstar1
I mentioned back on page one that Im pretty sure they could do some sort of electronic disabling by remote control if engineers set there mind to it, something to interrupt the electrical flow in the car or something like that ...if the problem was given to the students at MIT I bet they would come up with some interesting possibilities...They already have cars that will not start if the driver has been drinking.... but as with most things my guess is that the powers that be will do nothing until the problem is so acute that it is impossible to avoid anymore
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Linda Z
mstar, I read online about the proposed use of something just like that. It said it's in development. I hope it succeeds, because it looks like a possible nonlethal solution.
Krys, I'm glad you didn't think that!
Yes, people can be real jerks, can't they? But how wonderful of the "ice tea" lady--just shows people can be terrific, too.
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Belle
Well, I was married to a police officer for 8 years. It's a very sensitive subject for me. I can tell you they are extremely frustrated and it's aggravating being an officer, especially since you are always under scrutiny and attack. They can't win for losing. No matter what they do it isn't right, isn't safe, doesn't seem like a wise decision.....
Police officers have more and more rules and laws implemented every day that limit their effectiveness. CRIMINALS HAVE NO RULES!
They put their lives on the line EVERY DAY. EVERY traffic stop, EVERY domestic violence call, EVERY police call could put the officer in a lethal situation. They arrest bad guys all the time who are released back onto the streets because of the judicial system and because they have more rights than the arresting officers.
They ARE researching, testing and implementing new things every day. They have computers in their cars and can get information quicker, but it's still not quick enough. Police officers are expected to be perfect 100% of the time and it's just not a realistic expectation. There ARE going to be mistakes and there ARE going to be people who are wrongly killed. It's not something any officer expects to happen to him and it is something every officer hopes to NEVER happen to him.
They have good days and bad days just like everyone else. They sometimes don't sleep well; they sometimes come to work with a head cold, in a bad mood, upset over their marriage, their family, their bills....in addition to that they live every single day of work, every single minute on high alert, always watching and hyper-sensitive to the fact that any situation could become life threatening for someone, including themselves. AND most of them do it because they love the job, they love feeling like they are effecting change and helping keep the country, their city/county safe for people. God knows it ain't because of the paycheck!!!
Putting those disabling remotes in cars would be a good idea, but how many cars are on the roads and how much would YOU pay to have them put on your car? Are you also going to advocate the US becoming a real live Orwellian 1984? How much freedom are you willing to give up so that it's easier for the police to find and arrest criminals?
You try hitting a few inches moving at 80mph with a bullet. It's not that easy, AND it wouldn't blow out the tires like in the movies.
Helicopters can't be instantly in the air exactly where something is happening. It takes time. It's also extremely expensive - paid for with tax dollars that they have to fight tooth and nail to get and which usually isn't enough money to do the things they would LOVE to do.
There are some good ideas out there but they are either impractical, too expensive or would require the general public to implement themselves which they most likely aren't going to do. Most people have absolutely no idea what it's like to be an officer and why what seems like an easy answer to them actually isn't practical or a realistic expectation. Believe me, they ARE always looking at ways to make things safer, quicker, more accurate and more affordable.
:)-->
It truly is a thankless job and I'm surprised we don't have a shortage of men and women willing to put up with so much b.s. for such little pay. Stepping off the soapbox now....
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Linda Z
Belle said:
That was meant as a joke, Belle. Sorry I didn't make that clear.
Believe me, I don't envy police officers their jobs. I have a couple friends who are cops, and it's not something I'd have the courage to be.
I really didn't mean to press your buttons, and I understand why it's a sensitive subject for you. My concern is as much for the safety of the police officers as for the innocent bystanders who have been killed. I googled "high-speed chases" +fatalities and found quite a few sites that talked about the number of policemen and women who have died in these situations and quite a few officers were quoted who shared my concern.
Again, this was never about bashing the police.
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Belle
I didn't get the joke, Linda, but I get defensive as soon as I see something negative about our law enforcement officers.
:)-->
I know you weren't bashing the police. It IS frustrating trying to find the balance, but they ARE trying....all the time. Most people just want to complain about them instead of offering actual, realistic solutions or alternatives. That's not what you're doing, but even with new, practical alternatives, there will still be cases of innocent people getting hurt or killed. All are sad.
Google officers + anything and you'll find sites that bash them for whatever it is. You can find people to support whatever grief or belief you have in any category.
:)-->
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