Oddly enough though, I have peace, whether they straighten out their end or not, though I won't forget the nonsense and abuse.
Obviously, they DON'T have peace, and desperately want it. The way some ex-leaders grunt on and on about forgetting all this, somehow being thankful and moving on suggests this to me.
What would Christ have us to do? Well, keep a nice, fresh, well maintained "beware, mad dog" sign at the corner of W. Road and Hwy 29.
For starters.
Call it hate if you will. The friggin dog bit the crap out of me, to heck if I'll sit back and let it bite anybody else.
And its still there, getting hungrier and leaner by the day. If you think people don't look at this site before even thinking about going to "twig", think again.
If you ever noticed in the old testament, the true prophets didn't give up raising objections to Israels often bouts of devilishness and idolatry?
Why bother with TWI? Well, it just happened to be one devilish and idolatrous entity that personally affected MY life.
And it refuses to change.
Even if one more person goes in the mouth of the hole in the earth called a ministry, under my watch- if what I say could dissuade them, well, I'd be a monster.
Tone of the message: concerned and SLIGHTLY annoyed.
These "offshoots" are as varied as the people in them.
One church was started back in the late 60's by the only other person who VPW ever allowed to be licensed to teach PFAL.
After splitting with VPW this woman along with her husband started one of the finest church's I've ever been in, in the late 60's. From the most cursory view this church or ministry if you will could be construed as an offshoot. It wouldn't be fair to paint her into such a corner as I've seen pointed out here, I've seen what this church has done for their community.
I know some others that could fall into the same category. But no one here wants hear that. No if the people involved ever had anything to do with The Way then they must be as evil as the original group, how petty.
And as far as how little I know about The Way, I was steering people away from that place when you were still gladly throwing your money in the horn. Why'd you stay so long? There was plenty of information available, why didn't you listen?
Go ahead with your little crusade, I'm all for it. Once the last few pieces of that place is auctioned off to Honda or Caterpillar I'll toast a glass of Louis XIII. And I have personal reasons for the joy that will bring.
I'm just always amazed that the minute someone here writes something that is anything less than outright vitriol they are jumped on like a rabid dog who needs to be silenced.
Dizz, meaning no offence, but I just don't see any posts where the author was trying to silence you. I looked through both threads, too.
Perhaps I missed it. Would you mind providing an example?
On the other hand, I *have* seen posters that have posted positively about TWI and were NOT attacked - except when the substance of their posts was "My experience was different than yours, therefore yours didn't really happen or your experiences were meaningless". Then it's open season.
And as far as how little I know about The Way, I was steering people away from that place when you were still gladly throwing your money in the horn. Why'd you stay so long? There was plenty of information available, why didn't you listen?
Wow, I guess you were way smarter than I was. I didn't even know about the sexcapades until LCM resigned. We were SHOCKED. We left months before that because we couldn't stand the ugly micromanagement any longer.
Um --we read POP a couple months after LCM resigned(We had to buy a computer first.) Peons like us, living out in the toolies, really did NOT have access to all the information.
Speaking of 'getting over it', why don't those who post 'get over it' do likewise, ... in getting over the fact that there are going to be multitudes giving their account of the crap that they went thru in TWI, as well as that many of these same multitudes are going to endeavor to warn others about same TWI crap. As well as getting used to the fact that people are going to deal with their TWI experience each in their own way.
And if all this doesn't bother you 'get over it' folks as much as some of you so insist, well then, ... why complain?
Bitterness is something everybody feels. Sometimes it's something I want to avoid; other times it's just good to the last drop.
I get bitter about things that happened before TWI more than during TWI, but I probably deal with it in much the same way. I still find myself thinking about something in the past and becoming so angry that I pretend I'm back there dealing with it the way I would if it were today. TWI would say "renew your mind"...so what am I supposed to do, go to the mirror and scream scriptures at myself? LCM didn't benefit a whole lot by that method IMO.
It's like sneezing: when I feel one coming on I just let it come out. THEN maybe I'll consider SIT or praying or something.
quote: I kind of like this forum, because the anger is controllable. Not in a bad way, but you have to think about things a little more before you type.
I'm never going to "get over it". The "it" in my case is a personal private thing I keep hidden except from the closest of my friends for the shame it brings. In my case, the pain does seem to subside, though.
I will always be around to stand up to anybody who says "just get over it" because I don't want anybody else to ever be treated as badly as some of these - - my brothers and sisters on this forum. Never.
While I draw breath I will continually remind anyone who forgot, or describe to anyone who doesn't know, exactly as much as I know of first hand experience, and also the well reported and recorded incidents of reputable posters so that not one single additional person has to endure any of it.
That's my story - and I'm sticking to it.
And Ham, I'm so sorry you are still troubled and concerned over the things you grieve over. If this was a court of law, you'd be declared innocent because you were not in your right mind...your mind was twisted around 14 ways 'till Sunday. But I know you don't want excuses, you believe you should have known better. I understand that too...sometimes I feel the same way.
Most all of us have done things while in twi for which we regret. I know that I have hurt others also and I'm sorry.
The difference between us and the abusers who would suggest that "we get over it" is that we recognize and accept the responsibility for the hurt we have caused. They marginalize and minimize their responsibility and shift blame to the victims. Their guilt remains with them.
The stories need to be continued told and retold so others can learn and heal. We need to keep telling the truth about twi so no one need endure the abuse. People who have had their rights trampled on need to seek justice and relief from the courts and we should all support them in that effort.
Unlike "getting over it" there does come a time after one has had time to grieve and to process sufficiently that one can move on with their lives. Moving on with our lives is the best repudiation of the suggestion "to get over it" because we understand the truth about twi. We continue share our experiences and know that the only way to be free is to reject the abuse and to choose our own way.
I just wanted to pipe in and say ... I think this thread is wonderful.
I've been here on GS for now almost 3 yrs. and at times I have eased off posting thinking, "Ok, I'm done with this. It's over. I'm moving on."
But then someone like you starts up a thread and POW! it socks me right between the ears and I see how I'm not 'OVER IT' and the words I read here, help me heal and be a better person.
So like Oenophile said...
quote:
The stories need to be continued told and retold so others can learn and heal. We need to keep telling the truth about twi so no one need endure the abuse.
So, I personally want to thank you for your thread and your thoughts (as well as all the other posters).
I appreciate the honesty. At times it may not be pretty but it's honest and that is a thing of beauty.
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dizzydog
I'm feeling a bit accused myself.
Of course I'm being perceived as not entirely touting the party line so those in the group are making sure to let me know where I'm screwed up.
Gee, where's that happened before?
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Ham
Oddly enough though, I have peace, whether they straighten out their end or not, though I won't forget the nonsense and abuse.
Obviously, they DON'T have peace, and desperately want it. The way some ex-leaders grunt on and on about forgetting all this, somehow being thankful and moving on suggests this to me.
No peace.
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dizzydog
I agree.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I seem to recall that Jesus got angry and flipped over a few tables when he saw people abusing the things of God...
Righteous anger is oftentimes not only justified, but appropriate.
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dizzydog
So getting angry on a website is akin to Jesus Christ running the money changers out of the temple?
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Ham
What would Christ have us to do? Well, keep a nice, fresh, well maintained "beware, mad dog" sign at the corner of W. Road and Hwy 29.
For starters.
Call it hate if you will. The friggin dog bit the crap out of me, to heck if I'll sit back and let it bite anybody else.
And its still there, getting hungrier and leaner by the day. If you think people don't look at this site before even thinking about going to "twig", think again.
If you ever noticed in the old testament, the true prophets didn't give up raising objections to Israels often bouts of devilishness and idolatry?
Why bother with TWI? Well, it just happened to be one devilish and idolatrous entity that personally affected MY life.
And it refuses to change.
Even if one more person goes in the mouth of the hole in the earth called a ministry, under my watch- if what I say could dissuade them, well, I'd be a monster.
Tone of the message: concerned and SLIGHTLY annoyed.
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Ham
Not quite. We don't have the legal right to just go and run them out.
I think we have the obligation to warn others.
We have the joy to dump, reorganize, or redefine beliefs that we once swallowed without a second thought.
Look in the doctrinal forums. You'll find a LOT of agreement AND disagreement- and its not a bad thing.
Some people just come here to compare notes and figured what the H happened. Most of us left Der Vey very, very confused.
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Ham
What about the women that "tolerated" loy's unsatiable appetite?
Are they supposed to just put on a happy face, say, "well, at least I am redeemed. We should just be able to get along.."?
"Just get over it".
Maybe you don't have a clue about what was going on there.
What about the scores of ladies rose and gang ushered right into "the master's" lair?
There they are, still in charge..headed up by "rosie the enabler".
Well, just get over it..
The bastard was doing three-ways at the same time I was being reamed for some little petty annoyance.
Well, I oughta just get over it..
They put their most faithful supporter out IN THE COLD. At least practically, anyway.
Oh well, so what. Maybe they're making too big of a deal over such a little matter..
At this time, let us just all go in peace, be filled, and be warmed, and dream of better days.. ptooie.
Theme of post: extreme bewilderment.
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Ham
So in a lot of ways, I think this is a perfect offshoot of the offshoot thread..
After finding out what upper leadership hid for years and years..
Is there any wonder why people are a little bit suspicious of offshoots?
I love them like the brethren that they are, but we're not going "that Way" again.
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dizzydog
These "offshoots" are as varied as the people in them.
One church was started back in the late 60's by the only other person who VPW ever allowed to be licensed to teach PFAL.
After splitting with VPW this woman along with her husband started one of the finest church's I've ever been in, in the late 60's. From the most cursory view this church or ministry if you will could be construed as an offshoot. It wouldn't be fair to paint her into such a corner as I've seen pointed out here, I've seen what this church has done for their community.
I know some others that could fall into the same category. But no one here wants hear that. No if the people involved ever had anything to do with The Way then they must be as evil as the original group, how petty.
And as far as how little I know about The Way, I was steering people away from that place when you were still gladly throwing your money in the horn. Why'd you stay so long? There was plenty of information available, why didn't you listen?
Go ahead with your little crusade, I'm all for it. Once the last few pieces of that place is auctioned off to Honda or Caterpillar I'll toast a glass of Louis XIII. And I have personal reasons for the joy that will bring.
I'm just always amazed that the minute someone here writes something that is anything less than outright vitriol they are jumped on like a rabid dog who needs to be silenced.
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Ham
Yep. Funny how her little publication that was in the bookstore at one time, pretty much described exactly what happened to us..
DizzyDog, I harbor no venom or ill will for you.
What I think you find here are a few very emotional people. And we did not have that luxury, some of us for quite a few years.
Over twenty years of sucking it in, "renewing the mind" and "getting over it" tends to have an effect on people.
I'm not full of anger and wrath. I just have little tolerance for certain kinds of nonsense nowadays.
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dizzydog
That's honest and I can respect your feelings.
You didn't hear that much in TWI either.
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Steve!
Dizz, meaning no offence, but I just don't see any posts where the author was trying to silence you. I looked through both threads, too.
Perhaps I missed it. Would you mind providing an example?
On the other hand, I *have* seen posters that have posted positively about TWI and were NOT attacked - except when the substance of their posts was "My experience was different than yours, therefore yours didn't really happen or your experiences were meaningless". Then it's open season.
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dizzydog
Silence, perhaps not, let's leave that statement where it sits and if I am misunderstanding someone then I'm big enough to admit it.
I've also been misunderstood here and in the interest of changing the tone a little I will refrain from continuing with that line.
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Bramble
Wow, I guess you were way smarter than I was. I didn't even know about the sexcapades until LCM resigned. We were SHOCKED. We left months before that because we couldn't stand the ugly micromanagement any longer.
Um --we read POP a couple months after LCM resigned(We had to buy a computer first.) Peons like us, living out in the toolies, really did NOT have access to all the information.
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GarthP2000
Speaking of 'getting over it', why don't those who post 'get over it' do likewise, ... in getting over the fact that there are going to be multitudes giving their account of the crap that they went thru in TWI, as well as that many of these same multitudes are going to endeavor to warn others about same TWI crap. As well as getting used to the fact that people are going to deal with their TWI experience each in their own way.
And if all this doesn't bother you 'get over it' folks as much as some of you so insist, well then, ... why complain?
Hhmmmm??
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justloafing
Garth, I think I am just going to "get over" the "get over it" Always hated that slang so let's stick it back in there face
;)-->
I am here to bitch about twi and if you don't like it................GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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excathedra
i don't think you can get over your life
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johniam
Bitterness is something everybody feels. Sometimes it's something I want to avoid; other times it's just good to the last drop.
I get bitter about things that happened before TWI more than during TWI, but I probably deal with it in much the same way. I still find myself thinking about something in the past and becoming so angry that I pretend I'm back there dealing with it the way I would if it were today. TWI would say "renew your mind"...so what am I supposed to do, go to the mirror and scream scriptures at myself? LCM didn't benefit a whole lot by that method IMO.
It's like sneezing: when I feel one coming on I just let it come out. THEN maybe I'll consider SIT or praying or something.
quote: I kind of like this forum, because the anger is controllable. Not in a bad way, but you have to think about things a little more before you type.
Amen.
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krys
I'm never going to "get over it". The "it" in my case is a personal private thing I keep hidden except from the closest of my friends for the shame it brings. In my case, the pain does seem to subside, though.
I will always be around to stand up to anybody who says "just get over it" because I don't want anybody else to ever be treated as badly as some of these - - my brothers and sisters on this forum. Never.
While I draw breath I will continually remind anyone who forgot, or describe to anyone who doesn't know, exactly as much as I know of first hand experience, and also the well reported and recorded incidents of reputable posters so that not one single additional person has to endure any of it.
That's my story - and I'm sticking to it.
And Ham, I'm so sorry you are still troubled and concerned over the things you grieve over. If this was a court of law, you'd be declared innocent because you were not in your right mind...your mind was twisted around 14 ways 'till Sunday. But I know you don't want excuses, you believe you should have known better. I understand that too...sometimes I feel the same way.
It takes a very very big man to admit that, Ham.
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oenophile
Ham,
Most all of us have done things while in twi for which we regret. I know that I have hurt others also and I'm sorry.
The difference between us and the abusers who would suggest that "we get over it" is that we recognize and accept the responsibility for the hurt we have caused. They marginalize and minimize their responsibility and shift blame to the victims. Their guilt remains with them.
The stories need to be continued told and retold so others can learn and heal. We need to keep telling the truth about twi so no one need endure the abuse. People who have had their rights trampled on need to seek justice and relief from the courts and we should all support them in that effort.
Unlike "getting over it" there does come a time after one has had time to grieve and to process sufficiently that one can move on with their lives. Moving on with our lives is the best repudiation of the suggestion "to get over it" because we understand the truth about twi. We continue share our experiences and know that the only way to be free is to reject the abuse and to choose our own way.
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mj412
ya know how they say "my life changed in a instant forever?"
yeah ex.
and it is still with me it is part of who I am .
get over what? exactly the fact the world changed forever and some days alot more than others the reminders still sting of what happened.
the past is the past but let me say the way I think and do and know life was changed and that went with me .
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A la prochaine
Ham,
I just wanted to pipe in and say ... I think this thread is wonderful.
I've been here on GS for now almost 3 yrs. and at times I have eased off posting thinking, "Ok, I'm done with this. It's over. I'm moving on."
But then someone like you starts up a thread and POW! it socks me right between the ears and I see how I'm not 'OVER IT' and the words I read here, help me heal and be a better person.
So like Oenophile said...
So, I personally want to thank you for your thread and your thoughts (as well as all the other posters).
I appreciate the honesty. At times it may not be pretty but it's honest and that is a thing of beauty.
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A la prochaine
Catcup,
What a beautiful quote. Made me think of Helen Keller's life. That is what made her life so remarkable...it's what she OVERCAME.
Thank you. It brought tears.
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