The American dream is not to own your own house or business. Debt is not the foundation upon which our country was built but was built on the freedom to choose to succeed or prevail. If that means to you owning a house, or a nice car, or anything else that’s on your heart, we’re not against it, TWI is not against it. Solomon had an abundance of riches beyond belief. It’s vital that we make sure that we understand that God is the one who set the framework for spiritual success, for success in living and that may or may not involve certain material things.
Belle, is this for real?!?!
Nawww, this has got to be a late April Fool joke or something. They're actually teaching that if you don't own a house or biz it's GODs' fault??? And just when I thought TWI had sunken as far as they possibly could....
Earlier in my 1st post on page 1 of this thread before my daughter asked if anyone had tried to escape...she asked...again very innocently and interrogatively, " What was this? Was is like 'boot camp'?"
That set us off to more laughter!! But there certainly was some truth to what she said.
i have found new purpose, joy, and reward in my way corps experience.
Let me explain....
I just spent this last week at my daughter's university of choice, getting "oriented."
Said daughter was sorely dissapointed in her dorm assignment. :(-->
She got assigned to an older building with no elevator. Her room is on the 4th floor, with a community bathroom at the end of the hall. She will be sleeping in the top bunk of an 8x12 room with about 12 inches of closet space.
Ohmigosh!
I was able to fully explain to her the blessings of community showers, (you don't have to clean 'em, housekeeping does) no elevator, (imagine what good shape she will be in, you know aerobics points and all) and only one other roommate (instead of 12.)
And she actually has a phone in her room (instead of only one down the hall.)
She has to stand in line much of her day, (always have a book on hand to read) and has absolutely no privacy whatsoever anywhere.
Thanks to the way corps, I really don't feel very sorry for her, and somehow know she will survive. :D-->
your fate in life well Gods plan for you may or may not mean material abundance. lol as long as it means material abundance for certain people.
how far is that from the churches who claim a medical condition is the will of God?
or God inflicted me with poverty as a witness for the LORD?
What happened to free will? now it is about a framework.
oh lord all I got was the sand and the others framework is rock or something? deal with it? I thought our framework was the rock of Jesus as the conerstone.
what they are doing is seperating the person again into parts.. well ya have your life and it might really suck that is the framework ya got to bad for you... but the bible Character Soloman had money and abundance so Im ok , maybe if ya take a class or get to where I am in the tree it will be better for ya.
but maybe not , so keep doing what we tell ya is right and understand it is just a difference in the will of God for me and you.
bless ya!
come on God is not a respector of people like that.
that sounds just cruel and mean and like God has some He will bless alot and some um not so much...I do not believe it.
x10 has a point that applies here in the broad sense.
When I entered the program it was with the highest idealism. Although I was quickly disabused of that notion, I retained a certain enthusiasm, thinking I was there to do the work of God. But after our disastrous final year, I ws deeply disillusioned and pretty mad about the program.
I consider a mark of growth that God has managed to use those experiences for my good & growth. There is nothing too low & debased that God cannot turn it to his own use & purposes.
mj, I don't get what post you're replying to . You sound pretty miffed at the idea of God's sovereignty. Might you be misrepresenting the position of 'predestinationists' just a wee bit?
Or, you could take it to Doctrinal & expound on all teh Bible says concerning "free will". Hint: T'ain't much 'tall.
I do believe God is God and may be able , yet He does not over ride what people chose.
He loves us. and that is why.
I believe prayer changes things, it allows God to make His will happen and for situations to change.
but people have a brain and an ability that God loves and that is the choice whether or not to chose to woship HIM in spirit and Truth.
we can chose not to. He will not do anything about it. except by His mighty mercy save us from a worse outcome.
If we chose to put money before His design it is our choice and it is a long road back sometimes when we realize it all proves to be nothing. and some may not in this life time.
ya know not every "unbeliever" are evil infested stabbing people.
many give the world great and wonderful gifts.
because men are created by God we are indeed wonderful.. whether we chose Jesus as LORD or not.
I do not agree that to have money is even in "God's plan" money is just that money and wealth is just that wealth, we can chose to have the knowledge to attain money and be every wit in Service to the LORD. or not. God blesses our life.
each individual choses how He must live it.
this idea that we must have script and plan and all this man made ideals that God approves us for us to do well is a myth.
it was a great myth that many still fall into it behooved twi to help people think it had to be such and such a type of scheduled script because they then could give it to you and hence keep it all under control... rules and regulations.
In reality we just live God is our Father He wants us happy He wants us healthy He wants us challenged and living a life that is worthy of knowing Jesus As LORD.
the LORD looks at our life and helps us and guides us to meet Gods will and our own. What father would give his child a rock?
I sometimes doubt what my own children have chosen and really think I have a better plan that will work faster and better for them!!!
because that is how man made love is. In contrast Gods love looks at His children and says we are perfect give them what ever they want in life and then some! always.
the reason some do not prosper has NOTHING to do with God it has everything to do with what the individual has chosen to do in his life or even misfortune or sin or choices. How people think about money and success vary by many degrees in this world.
God can not erase what we think about such areas in life. He has no desire to no motive at all. God is our Father, we are adult children hopefully. that is why He tells us to grow up in christ so we can understand How christ helps us to run our life.
god does not take his grown children and manipulate their desires and wishes or choices by force any more than a loving human parent would.
the evan I do not like the way your sentence sounds when you try to dismiss me and want me to go to doctrine .
Reminds me of that old saying, "That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger." :D-->
Sometimes I wished to be killed, but have to admit now that I'm glad for the strength and ability to laugh at things. I could have used 4 flights of stairs a day in my college days. :D--> NOT that I wouldn't have complained, but I sure coulda used 'em.
For the most part I had a great time in the Corps. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like things got pervasively bad like in the late 80's and wors in the 90's.
I remember hearing about the huge mud battle Johnny Lingo talked about while they dredged the pond, made it deeper and put sand on the bottom. Prior to that I wouldn't get in it unless it was frozen to skate on it. I was grossed out by the mud between my toes (city boy that I am).
Personally I looked at the individuals who caused my diffcult times, more than the program itself. I use the experiences, the discipline (I'm one of the ones who got 100+ percent of my aerobic points), the public speaking skills, etc. Overall the experience was good for me. I took more from it that it did from me.
I was also in the best physical shape of my life then. Prior to that I had never run more than a mile, even though I'd been a decent athlete in high school. In that first in-residence year I got to where running five miles at a strect was "nothing." The furthest I ran was 14 miles at a 7:30 pace and was able to do one mile in a little over 6 minutes.
I was very proud of that along with the B from Greek class; I still use the greek today.
However it really pains me that the experiences people lived were so divergent. So many people were so hurt. I went in with high ideals too, I thought the concept of being as committed to God and disciplined as the Marine Corps for God was awesome.
I really feel that the failure of TWC can and should be laid at LCM's feet. I see it in my mind as "revenge of the jock." He was such a wannabe, never content with the talent he did have. Which actually, he's a talented guy. I saw him do some pretty awesome and inspiring things... a LOOOOONG time ago.
Power Corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
I, too, had tremendous fun in the 7th Corps. But I think part of it was because some of us did not follow the expectations of the program in detail as outlined. In other words we were rebellious not "religious", which made for great fun in that environment.
I had a wide variety of experiences, some good, some bad. Got to make friends with people from all over the world, got to do things such as LEAD, hitchiking, organinc farming, digging ditches for slaves wages, ROA, roast a pig, sleep at the Sidney Mansion, eat 3 meals a day with hundreds of the same people, listen to maniacal lunch time rantings, etc, etc. It was a unique experience and one which I do not regret.
But again, those who were more honest than me and really, really adhered to the letter of the program, I think, were more miserable in some ways over time. It was almost like if you were a bit corrupt and rebellious and even dishonest (for example aerobics points, budget books, etc) you had more fun, especially The Way Corps. Probably shouldn't have been that way but it was.
My motto during my time in the corps was: It is easier to get forgiveness than to get permission.
This nugget was taught to me by a 3rd corps grad lady, who used it as her motto.
I also realized, if you were "discreet," you could pretty much get away with anything in the corps. Some of us did manage to march to our own different drummer - even in residence.
I've recently come to appreciate another aspect of way corps training that I honestly have never thought about until today.
Getting back to the "community bathroom" thing, that daughter is dealing with going away to college.
Daughter is stressed because her dorm has a "community bathroom" that does not include individual shower stalls. Group shower thing going on. Her dorm has the same kind of showers that Emporia Hall had.
Egads, she has to get nekkid and take a shower with no privacy. According to her, life could not get any worse.
Once again, somehow I know she will survive. :)-->
You could get her a nice condo off campus. I'm sure there are lots of people here who would love to sponsor her... of course she would have to write us letters each month.
Then again you could mention that she is getting off pretty easy with the showers. At least she wont have to crawl through the lawn looking for rocks, or move mattresses back n forth across campus,or pick peppers, no fun runs, or classes from dawn to dusk, Well I'm sure you can add to the list. I think she will get your point.
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Weout1200
Belle, is this for real?!?!
Nawww, this has got to be a late April Fool joke or something. They're actually teaching that if you don't own a house or biz it's GODs' fault??? And just when I thought TWI had sunken as far as they possibly could....
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Catcup
Oh yeah, that's furreal.
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Belle
Weout, I wish it was a joke, but, alas, this IS what TWI is teaching people. Now they just blame God if they can't blame the TWIt.
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Ham
Now I think we are talking the reward: what it is not. It surely is not financial abundance and stability.
Lessee. Fifty some years old, still grinding your foot at a second rate job or "full time" corps position, no savings, no house.
Your reward is more work. You will work until the day you die.
I am suprised that they don't have a sign above the entry at the corner of W. Road and highway 29, "Work will set you free".
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Ham
Reward and purpose it is perhaps.. but I could hardly call it joy..
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A la prochaine
I forgot to mention...
Earlier in my 1st post on page 1 of this thread before my daughter asked if anyone had tried to escape...she asked...again very innocently and interrogatively, " What was this? Was is like 'boot camp'?"
That set us off to more laughter!! But there certainly was some truth to what she said.
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ex10
i have found new purpose, joy, and reward in my way corps experience.
Let me explain....
I just spent this last week at my daughter's university of choice, getting "oriented."
Said daughter was sorely dissapointed in her dorm assignment.
:(-->
She got assigned to an older building with no elevator. Her room is on the 4th floor, with a community bathroom at the end of the hall. She will be sleeping in the top bunk of an 8x12 room with about 12 inches of closet space.
Ohmigosh!
I was able to fully explain to her the blessings of community showers, (you don't have to clean 'em, housekeeping does) no elevator, (imagine what good shape she will be in, you know aerobics points and all) and only one other roommate (instead of 12.)
And she actually has a phone in her room (instead of only one down the hall.)
She has to stand in line much of her day, (always have a book on hand to read) and has absolutely no privacy whatsoever anywhere.
Thanks to the way corps, I really don't feel very sorry for her, and somehow know she will survive.
:D-->
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GrouchoMarxJr
Hmmm...I seem to remember something about one of the "corps principles"...material abundance to you and the ministry?...
I guess that must be an old wineskin?...or maybe an old drambuieskin....hmmm.
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mj412
that sounds like a bit of the old fate idea .
your fate in life well Gods plan for you may or may not mean material abundance. lol as long as it means material abundance for certain people.
how far is that from the churches who claim a medical condition is the will of God?
or God inflicted me with poverty as a witness for the LORD?
What happened to free will? now it is about a framework.
oh lord all I got was the sand and the others framework is rock or something? deal with it? I thought our framework was the rock of Jesus as the conerstone.
what they are doing is seperating the person again into parts.. well ya have your life and it might really suck that is the framework ya got to bad for you... but the bible Character Soloman had money and abundance so Im ok , maybe if ya take a class or get to where I am in the tree it will be better for ya.
but maybe not , so keep doing what we tell ya is right and understand it is just a difference in the will of God for me and you.
bless ya!
come on God is not a respector of people like that.
that sounds just cruel and mean and like God has some He will bless alot and some um not so much...I do not believe it.
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TheEvan
x10 has a point that applies here in the broad sense.
When I entered the program it was with the highest idealism. Although I was quickly disabused of that notion, I retained a certain enthusiasm, thinking I was there to do the work of God. But after our disastrous final year, I ws deeply disillusioned and pretty mad about the program.
I consider a mark of growth that God has managed to use those experiences for my good & growth. There is nothing too low & debased that God cannot turn it to his own use & purposes.
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TheEvan
mj, I don't get what post you're replying to . You sound pretty miffed at the idea of God's sovereignty. Might you be misrepresenting the position of 'predestinationists' just a wee bit?
Or, you could take it to Doctrinal & expound on all teh Bible says concerning "free will". Hint: T'ain't much 'tall.
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mj412
we may disagree.
I do believe God is God and may be able , yet He does not over ride what people chose.
He loves us. and that is why.
I believe prayer changes things, it allows God to make His will happen and for situations to change.
but people have a brain and an ability that God loves and that is the choice whether or not to chose to woship HIM in spirit and Truth.
we can chose not to. He will not do anything about it. except by His mighty mercy save us from a worse outcome.
If we chose to put money before His design it is our choice and it is a long road back sometimes when we realize it all proves to be nothing. and some may not in this life time.
ya know not every "unbeliever" are evil infested stabbing people.
many give the world great and wonderful gifts.
because men are created by God we are indeed wonderful.. whether we chose Jesus as LORD or not.
I do not agree that to have money is even in "God's plan" money is just that money and wealth is just that wealth, we can chose to have the knowledge to attain money and be every wit in Service to the LORD. or not. God blesses our life.
each individual choses how He must live it.
this idea that we must have script and plan and all this man made ideals that God approves us for us to do well is a myth.
it was a great myth that many still fall into it behooved twi to help people think it had to be such and such a type of scheduled script because they then could give it to you and hence keep it all under control... rules and regulations.
In reality we just live God is our Father He wants us happy He wants us healthy He wants us challenged and living a life that is worthy of knowing Jesus As LORD.
the LORD looks at our life and helps us and guides us to meet Gods will and our own. What father would give his child a rock?
I sometimes doubt what my own children have chosen and really think I have a better plan that will work faster and better for them!!!
because that is how man made love is. In contrast Gods love looks at His children and says we are perfect give them what ever they want in life and then some! always.
the reason some do not prosper has NOTHING to do with God it has everything to do with what the individual has chosen to do in his life or even misfortune or sin or choices. How people think about money and success vary by many degrees in this world.
God can not erase what we think about such areas in life. He has no desire to no motive at all. God is our Father, we are adult children hopefully. that is why He tells us to grow up in christ so we can understand How christ helps us to run our life.
god does not take his grown children and manipulate their desires and wishes or choices by force any more than a loving human parent would.
the evan I do not like the way your sentence sounds when you try to dismiss me and want me to go to doctrine .
I do not even understand you hint.
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Ham
But how often we (at least I did..) INSISTED on having one, for our very own..
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ex10
Thsnks, Evan, for getting it. The way corps wasn't a total loss, after all.
I'm able to send my beloved child off into the wild blue whatever, knowing she will be fine.
:)-->
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Belle
Reminds me of that old saying, "That which doesn't kill you makes you stronger."
:D-->
Sometimes I wished to be killed, but have to admit now that I'm glad for the strength and ability to laugh at things. I could have used 4 flights of stairs a day in my college days.
:D--> NOT that I wouldn't have complained, but I sure coulda used 'em.
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HCW
For the most part I had a great time in the Corps. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like things got pervasively bad like in the late 80's and wors in the 90's.
I remember hearing about the huge mud battle Johnny Lingo talked about while they dredged the pond, made it deeper and put sand on the bottom. Prior to that I wouldn't get in it unless it was frozen to skate on it. I was grossed out by the mud between my toes (city boy that I am).
Personally I looked at the individuals who caused my diffcult times, more than the program itself. I use the experiences, the discipline (I'm one of the ones who got 100+ percent of my aerobic points), the public speaking skills, etc. Overall the experience was good for me. I took more from it that it did from me.
I was also in the best physical shape of my life then. Prior to that I had never run more than a mile, even though I'd been a decent athlete in high school. In that first in-residence year I got to where running five miles at a strect was "nothing." The furthest I ran was 14 miles at a 7:30 pace and was able to do one mile in a little over 6 minutes.
I was very proud of that along with the B from Greek class; I still use the greek today.
However it really pains me that the experiences people lived were so divergent. So many people were so hurt. I went in with high ideals too, I thought the concept of being as committed to God and disciplined as the Marine Corps for God was awesome.
I really feel that the failure of TWC can and should be laid at LCM's feet. I see it in my mind as "revenge of the jock." He was such a wannabe, never content with the talent he did have. Which actually, he's a talented guy. I saw him do some pretty awesome and inspiring things... a LOOOOONG time ago.
Power Corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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igotout
I, too, had tremendous fun in the 7th Corps. But I think part of it was because some of us did not follow the expectations of the program in detail as outlined. In other words we were rebellious not "religious", which made for great fun in that environment.
I had a wide variety of experiences, some good, some bad. Got to make friends with people from all over the world, got to do things such as LEAD, hitchiking, organinc farming, digging ditches for slaves wages, ROA, roast a pig, sleep at the Sidney Mansion, eat 3 meals a day with hundreds of the same people, listen to maniacal lunch time rantings, etc, etc. It was a unique experience and one which I do not regret.
But again, those who were more honest than me and really, really adhered to the letter of the program, I think, were more miserable in some ways over time. It was almost like if you were a bit corrupt and rebellious and even dishonest (for example aerobics points, budget books, etc) you had more fun, especially The Way Corps. Probably shouldn't have been that way but it was.
7th Corps site
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Tom Strange
so hegotHope... you're saying that you didn't always eat all of your Borscht???
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igotout
No, we usually sneaked out and went to Sonic for burgers and fries on those days.
:D-->
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Sunesis
That's very true Igotout.
My motto during my time in the corps was: It is easier to get forgiveness than to get permission.
This nugget was taught to me by a 3rd corps grad lady, who used it as her motto.
I also realized, if you were "discreet," you could pretty much get away with anything in the corps. Some of us did manage to march to our own different drummer - even in residence.
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Belle
There's not enough WC anymore to be able to fly under the radar. Imagine, only four others in training with you....nowhere to hide!
I'm glad some of y'all were rebels, though! It's enabled you to help the rest of us even more.
:D-->
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ex10
I've recently come to appreciate another aspect of way corps training that I honestly have never thought about until today.
Getting back to the "community bathroom" thing, that daughter is dealing with going away to college.
Daughter is stressed because her dorm has a "community bathroom" that does not include individual shower stalls. Group shower thing going on. Her dorm has the same kind of showers that Emporia Hall had.
Egads, she has to get nekkid and take a shower with no privacy. According to her, life could not get any worse.
Once again, somehow I know she will survive.
:)-->
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WhiteDove
Ex
You could get her a nice condo off campus. I'm sure there are lots of people here who would love to sponsor her... of course she would have to write us letters each month.
Then again you could mention that she is getting off pretty easy with the showers. At least she wont have to crawl through the lawn looking for rocks, or move mattresses back n forth across campus,or pick peppers, no fun runs, or classes from dawn to dusk, Well I'm sure you can add to the list. I think she will get your point.
--> Love.. Me
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