I have been away for a week or so, and I just want to first give you my welcome also!
This thread is awesome and very informative. I got involved in twi at the ripe age of 19. Even though I wasn't raised in it, twi dictacted every adult thought process I ever had. I instantly went WOW after getting in twi, and I spent 5 years on staff when lcm was at his worst. I was also there when he got caught in his own dirt. I left 2 1/2 years ago after being the only die-hard in my family to hang with it for almost 20 years....geez....I thought all along I was the better one for staying. What a rude awakening for me...lol! My Mom left after 2 years, and my sister was in a a Geerite group with her ex-husband until 1999 or 200. When we compared stories after it was all over, she verified to me that Geer was just as much of a fruit loop as lcm was.
All in all, I have thankfully lost a lot of waybrain in the last 2 1/2 years. I have gone through a lot of anger and regret, but now I am at the point that I wouldn't be the person I am today without my involvement in twi. I think the experiences made me smarter about life in general. I will NEVER get involved in a a "we are the only ones with truth" group ever again. Hard lessons are not the desireable way to learn, but they make the most impression. Unfortunately for kids who were raised in twi, they have to have the hard lesson without making the mistake. You guys are awesome! It's great to see more perspective on this. Thanks so much for sharing your story.
Good God. Us WMHs are on the bottom of the food chain practically everywhere else.
It should not be necessary to explain anything; it's pretty blatant, but anyway.....
A woman can wear any provocative clothing she wants on the job and that's NOT considered sexual harassment, but if a man says she looks nice, THAT'S sexual harassment and he can get wrote up or fired.
Keep this in mind: they can get some of us fired from jobs or something like that, but we can still vote, can't we? Did you notice the results of the last presidential election? What are you going to do? Exterminate us?
First I really don't think you speak for all WHMs (White Heteroexual Males) and thank God for that.
You talk about something being "pretty blatant". Its blatant that WHMs (white heterosexual males) call the shots in this society. The puzzling thing is that you readily admit this in your post yet you also claim that WHM are the "bottom of the foodchain"... Which is it ? I've never seen the those who are truly at the "bottom of the foodchain" somehow manage to exercise enough influence to win a presidential election (as you pointed out).
You characterize the problems resulting from the applications of "political correctness" as being the equivalent of suffering first hand,sytematic racial abuse (of which you have very little firsthand knowledge). Thats a mind blower and we'll get to that in a sec. And if one of your major complaints is that WHM can't flirt with women at work because its politically incorrect then there is little hope of orienting such a person to the reality that minorities face on a daily basis and you should readily admit this.
Now this gem...
quote:
johniam said:
If a man hits a woman he can get several years in prison.
So he shouldn't ? Dunno about you but I do NOT want to exist in a society where beating women is NOT a crime punishable by jail time.
And speaking of "beating". Have you been beaten up *many times* because of your race ? Has anyone ever said "Gee you are smart for a Spic..Just teasing.. Yuck,Yuck". Have the police stopped,searched and cuffed you as you were walking in your OWN neighborhood because you don't fit the "profile of the neighborhood" ? And speaking of walking - what about people throwing bottles at you and screaming insults just because of your skin color. Have you been denied a loan because of your race ? What about someone's parents telling you to "stay away from our daughter" because they don't want her marrying a person "of color". And the classic ..
"You should know your place !" I've got LOTS more personal stories like this some alot worse than what I've put down.
We both know you have no experience at all with any of the above and if you have its only been isolated incidents and not related to any pattern. Because if you had then you wouldn't be comparing your problems with "political correctness" to the painful realities that minorities deal with every day ! I suppose if you want to rank "fried chicken" comments about Tiger Woods up there with this then you are entitled but its terribly sad that you think it should be cool for some to be able to make crude,cliche jokes about someone of another color. Thats NOT cool. It never has been and I sincerely hope that it never will be.
Seems to me that *some* WHMs don't ever want to hear anything about the privilege they enjoy in this society OR the problems that minorities and women have to deal with on a daily basis. And when these topics come up some WHMs want to try to play the martyr card (like they even could) which is so tragic and sad because they don't even know what it is they should be complaining about except maybe some "sexual harassment case" or how "some feminist" sued to get membership at a male only country club. Like this is a sign of the coming Apocalypse.... Get real John. Your demongraphic calls the shots in the US and thats reality. Quit acting like you are "the oppressed".
I dont' even want to pretend to tolerate this crap. If you want to play like you are somehow being dumped on by society then go ahead but don't expect me to accept it as anything but what it is - an insult to those who have put up with a LOT more crap than you can ever imagine. Lots of people work hard and carve out a life here despite the problems associated with "color" and "gender" but there is always some guy who wants to remind the minorities that they aren't calling the shots - "someone" else is.
I couldn't but help note what horrible problems *Some* WHMS have these days. It must be tough to be at the "bottom of the food chain"...
I just wanted to say I'm sorry you went through all that with the Way. What a disturbing story. How awful they would do that to your family. I can see why you feel the way you do...
Thanks for the welcome and for sharing your story. Whoa - 20 years! I'm glad you finally saw the light :)--> And that you're getting over Waybrain. It sounds like you've made a lot of progress...
quote:
I think the experiences made me smarter about life in general. I will NEVER get involved in a a "we are the only ones with truth" group ever again. Hard lessons are not the desireable way to learn, but they make the most impression.
That was a great post. Thanks for speaking up - that needed to be said.
quote:
Seems to me that *some* WHMs don't ever want to hear anything about the privilege they enjoy in this society OR the problems that minorities and women have to deal with on a daily basis. And when these topics come up some WHMs want to try to play the martyr card.
Yep. Sad, but true. I wonder if johniam will respond. Or maybe he's off at a board meeting somewhere giving himself a raise...
Yeah, John. Try being a woman AND a minority in business management and see how the cards fall - - I can tell you it ain't just.
And try having bi-racial kids - - one of whom while sitting at home on the porch minding his own business was accosted by a prejudiced police officer who just didn't think a kid with a "nice tan" should be sitting out in a predominantly white neighborhood.
I am so god dam sick of whining people who think they're BETTER than me cause I'm white. Did you read what you posted? You think your life is more "legitimate" ...more "important" than mine just because I'm white and I supposedly haven't suffered in life as much as you. You think your racial heritage, which is flesh is more important than the wisdom of God, which is spiritual and which makes foolish the wisdom of this world. Condoleezza Rice and Clarence Thomas didn't get to where they are by whining. Are they "sellouts"?
My reality is different than yours but no less relevant. Few months ago I put myself at risk out in public along these lines; I was at the check out lane and my daughter was with me and she asked about a tabloid front page which said Bush knew and could have prevented 911. I am a Bush supporter so I spun my answer that way. Told her it was bs.
Well, this black man behind us starts in on me. I tried to ignore him (this was on a Friday night, by the way...crowded) but he kept it up. Finally I asked him how many beers he had. He then got righteously indignant and threatened to get physical with me in the parking lot.
At that point I knew for sure he was only doing this because he was a racist, so I got LOUD. REAL REAL LOUD. I told him what a racist I thought he was in several different ways without swearing. There's 12 checkout lanes in the store. Everybody anywhere near all 12 lanes could hear me. I was merely curious as to how boldly he would be willing to spew his racism at me if the whole community was listening.
Security was called; the store manager came over. The black man was silent by then. Interestingly, the store manager, who is white, assumed it was all my fault until he asked the girl who checked us out, who is black, and she told him it was the black guy's fault. The man and the female companion he was with were escorted out of the store by security, after which my daughter and I got the same thing. I'll bet that guy's going to think before he ever decides that a grocery store is racist friendly again.
That's the reality I live in. That doesn't happen every day, but it could. I have absolutely no control over Enron, or any of the other stuff you alluded to; I have the right to speak my mind about whatever ....es me off just as you do. I don't care if you're offended by that.
my last 3 years befor retirement i was promoted to the office
my secratary was a gal about my age and she always looked great and i wanted to to tell her that and open a door for her etc. but thanks to a class we had to take called
cultral diversity awareness
i never dared to for fear of reprocussions
i was brought upto be polite to everyone and i think it's a damn shame that we have to be concerned if we offend when all we want to do is be nice as mom taught us to be
I am so god dam sick of whining people who think they're BETTER than me cause I'm white
Who said that? I must have missed it.
People DID say that there are things about prejudice and discrimination that it is difficult, if not impossible, to understand, if you are not the object of it. Having a person of another ethnic group treat you in a rude manner, or even with a prejudiced or bigotted mindset is not the same as being subjected to discrimination.
The closest that I have EVER come to institutional racsim and discrimination was during my WOW year. The other WOWs and myself were treated very poorly by many of the other residents. I lost a job because my boss' church put pressure on him to fire me. We were harrassed incessantly. As rotten as it all was, it would have STOPPED if we had renounced The Way and joined a mainstream church. Or we could laid low when we got to town; no one would ever know, because we looked like everyone else. Black people cannot stop being black.
Y'know, maybe there ARE things like affirmative action, and maybe WHM's are blamed for all the world's ills, but for the most part, they (we, I guess) are still in charge, and are hardly a downtrodden underclass
I know I'm only hearing one side of the story about the store but one thing that really stood out to me was that you were excorted out the door too.
I have a question for you. Did the black man start calling you names that were racial or did you bring up that he was being biased?
If I'm whining then so is anyone who has complained about TWI.
The black man didn't play the race card; he played the democrat card; said Republicans were making all the world's problems (which, to him meant white people) but I could really smell alcohol on his breath and when he physically threatened me I kinda went off on him. Black people are no more the "master race" than blue eyed blondes. They can definitely be tempted with bias; so can anybody else. At least THIS time, I wasn't afraid to keep him honest.
Also, he did this right in front of my kid!!! Not smart. What kind of message does it send to a kid if I just sit there and take abuse like that? It says, "How can my dad protect me if he won't even protect himself?"
The closest that I have EVER come to institutional racsim and discrimination was during my WOW year. The other WOWs and myself were treated very poorly by many of the other residents. I lost a job because my boss' church put pressure on him to fire me. We were harrassed incessantly. As rotten as it all was, it would have STOPPED if we had renounced The Way and joined a mainstream church. Or we could laid low when we got to town; no one would ever know, because we looked like everyone else. Black people cannot stop being black.
Christian bashing is a popular form of bigotry. Interesting that you say your boss' church put pressure on him to fire you. That's just like Igotout being pressured to fire "copped out" believers from HIS business. But you shouldn't want to stop being what you believe in. Black people shouldn't want to stop being black. It's the other people's problem. That kind of prejudice on the WOW field et al just strengthened my resolve to be a believer.
Well, I would have kept quiet and then when we left explained to my child that sometimes to de esculate a situation is to walk away from it. Sometimes the best way is to ignore the idiots. They look more stupid if no one responds.
No need to apologize :)--> I think you made some good points (I think seeing a parent act like a screaming hothead in a grocery checkout line can't send a child any kind of message I'd want to see sent to a kid.)
Also, he did this right in front of my kid!!! Not smart. What kind of message does it send to a kid if I just sit there and take abuse like that? It says, "How can my dad protect me if he won't even protect himself?"
I am so god dam sick of whining people who think they're BETTER than me cause I'm white.
Oh John. Again I say that I don't think you represent the average WHM and thank God for that. I really do. And I'm sure that there are plenty WHMs who do too.
You are following the script that many self righteous guys before you have followed. The more talk about minorities and discrimination which emerges, the more defensive you become which in turn only magnifies your unwillingness to acknowledge what is well known and you yourself freely admit (though complain about) -
That your demographic calls the shots and any discussion of that is met with utter hostility and resentment towards those who bring it up. You don't want to understand problems asscoiated with racism as much as you want to preserve protection from vocal minority voices as if there exists some law to "make 'them' go away and be quiet".( By the way don't count on it). You take for granted the privilege your skin color and gender afford you because you've never had to exist any other way. No one has asked you to apologize for that but at least step up and acknowledge it.
Your posts remind me of some infamous grafitti that keeps returning to workplace bathroom walls all over this country. I've seen it hundreds of times. No doubt John you are quite familiar with it:
"black is beautiful and
tan is grand,
but white is the color of
the big boss man"
Of course it is true and we all know it is so why
not acknowledge it ? But graffitti like this is the product of resentment resulting from the realization
that minorities have been systematcially shafted and now wish to address it. So the "author" of this type of thing seeks to remind those minorities that they can complain all they want but its still a white world. But of course they (the authors) are reduced to writing stuff like this on bathroom walls instead of speaking up about it in public. How admirable. "Lets demoralize minorities with bathroom grafitti".
Ah yes and you pull up isolated, anecdotal evidence to justify your attitudes. You haven't a clue about dealing with systematic, patterned discrimination - and you should be thankful for that ! You really should count your blessings because given your reaction to even this limited amount of exchange on race issues you would crumble like a cookie if you had to endure discrimination that is common to the daily minority experience. Your dislike of the reality that minorities wish to advance themselves (just like white people have been doing for years) does not change anything so you should practice acceptance of this "reality" and quit trying to keep everything so "black and white". Your "reality" is based upon the preservation of a way of life that excludes consideration of others and the problems they have had to deal with (and countinue to do so) on a systematic basis.
The equality that minorities seek doesn't come at the expense of your personal freedom which you seem to believe to be the case. If your life is inconvenienced or you are irritated by the reality that racial prejudice has kept many a person down then thats nothing in comparison to what people have endured to get to a place that they can
pursue the very opportunities that you take for granted.
But John if you are convinced that you are right then write a letter to your local newspaper and voice these opinions using the same language you have here. Why not ? Why not share you enlightened (no pun intended) views with your community, your congressman, even the president. If you are so sure that you are right and its the minorities who have the problems then surely it will resonate with those of a kindred spirit and you can suppress the troublemakers, write a book, and go on the lecture circuit.
quote:
You think your racial heritage, which is flesh is more important than the wisdom of God, which is spiritual and which makes foolish the wisdom of this world.
Oh so God is a white heterosexual male too ?
So he must be at the bottom of the food chain too then... Poor guy...
So I get it.... In God's eyes we are all the same so no one should ever complain about racial injustice because of that ? What an ultra lame move John.
Lastly I would like to know what your objections are relative to jail time for men who assault women. I've seen others post some things and you certainly haven't denied what has been posted but perhaps you yourself can state what it is you feel to be so bad about jail time for women beaters if in fact you have a problem with that.
Also, he did this right in front of my kid!!! Not smart. What kind of message does it send to a kid if I just sit there and take abuse like that? It says, "How can my dad protect me if he won't even protect himself?"
If the man actually touched you, i.e. pushed you or hit you, that's one thing. You have the privelege of deciding how to best be an example to your child, but here's another perspective:
I am fully capable of physically defending myself. I have some martial arts training that I keep up on, and can take care of the average big mouth-tough guy (and am smart enough to recognize those who I CAN'T take on). My kids know this, and the young people that I work with know this. I can't recall any incidents like yours when I was with my kids, but it happens all too frequently where I work.
Big mouthed, drunken idiots start trouble all the time. I have been threatened with all manner of beatings and mutilation, I have been called every name in the book. Usually I keep my voice calm, my body language non-threatening, but prepared for anything. I don't let the morons get me going. Generally, the response from my younger co-workers is admiration for the way I stayed calm in the face of abuse, and derisive laughter at the knucklehead who thought he was something, when he was really a bag of hot air.
Lastly I would like to know what your objections are relative to jail time for men who assault women. I've seen others post some things and you certainly haven't denied what has been posted but perhaps you yourself can state what it is you feel to be so bad about jail time for women beaters if in fact you have a problem with that.
Why don't you explain why you are, apparently, OK with a woman killing her 5 children.
Your posts remind me of some infamous grafitti that keeps returning to workplace bathroom walls all over this country. I've seen it hundreds of times. No doubt John you are quite familiar with it:
"black is beautiful and
tan is grand,
but white is the color of
the big boss man"
No, actually, I am not familiar with that grafitti message. Like I said, non white people are more prejudiced against white people than the reverse. One difference I have observed is that many minorities, especially the ones who have a forum like Al Sharpton, seem to think that their whole entire identity is their minority status. That's what I was alluding to when I said...
You think your racial heritage, which is flesh is more important than the wisdom of God, which is spiritual and which makes foolish the wisdom of this world.
My identity is spiritual. Even white people who don't believe in God generally don't think being white is their whole identity.
Yes, in the category of flesh minorities have a definite disadvantage (not all of them, but most probably). But I'm not anybody's "big boss man" except my kids and that's temporary. I still believe that it's Christ in me and that's more important than being any demopgraphic. That's just how I think, so my identity is not destroyed just because VP couldn't keep his dick in his pants. Using race or gender as an excuse to blow off Christ in you is what's really lame.
By your last post you seem to think that God is powerless to help you just because you're not white. Raf isn't like that. Is he also a "sellout" just because he got a promotion?
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
14
14
25
28
Popular Days
Jul 8
26
Jul 26
23
Jul 20
17
Jul 10
15
Top Posters In This Topic
rascal 14 posts
Oakspear 14 posts
johniam 25 posts
BluzieQ 28 posts
Popular Days
Jul 8 2005
26 posts
Jul 26 2005
23 posts
Jul 20 2005
17 posts
Jul 10 2005
15 posts
Nottawayfer
BluzieQ:
I have been away for a week or so, and I just want to first give you my welcome also!
This thread is awesome and very informative. I got involved in twi at the ripe age of 19. Even though I wasn't raised in it, twi dictacted every adult thought process I ever had. I instantly went WOW after getting in twi, and I spent 5 years on staff when lcm was at his worst. I was also there when he got caught in his own dirt. I left 2 1/2 years ago after being the only die-hard in my family to hang with it for almost 20 years....geez....I thought all along I was the better one for staying. What a rude awakening for me...lol! My Mom left after 2 years, and my sister was in a a Geerite group with her ex-husband until 1999 or 200. When we compared stories after it was all over, she verified to me that Geer was just as much of a fruit loop as lcm was.
All in all, I have thankfully lost a lot of waybrain in the last 2 1/2 years. I have gone through a lot of anger and regret, but now I am at the point that I wouldn't be the person I am today without my involvement in twi. I think the experiences made me smarter about life in general. I will NEVER get involved in a a "we are the only ones with truth" group ever again. Hard lessons are not the desireable way to learn, but they make the most impression. Unfortunately for kids who were raised in twi, they have to have the hard lesson without making the mistake. You guys are awesome! It's great to see more perspective on this. Thanks so much for sharing your story.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
diazbro
First I really don't think you speak for all WHMs (White Heteroexual Males) and thank God for that.
You talk about something being "pretty blatant". Its blatant that WHMs (white heterosexual males) call the shots in this society. The puzzling thing is that you readily admit this in your post yet you also claim that WHM are the "bottom of the foodchain"... Which is it ? I've never seen the those who are truly at the "bottom of the foodchain" somehow manage to exercise enough influence to win a presidential election (as you pointed out).
You characterize the problems resulting from the applications of "political correctness" as being the equivalent of suffering first hand,sytematic racial abuse (of which you have very little firsthand knowledge). Thats a mind blower and we'll get to that in a sec. And if one of your major complaints is that WHM can't flirt with women at work because its politically incorrect then there is little hope of orienting such a person to the reality that minorities face on a daily basis and you should readily admit this.
Now this gem...
So he shouldn't ? Dunno about you but I do NOT want to exist in a society where beating women is NOT a crime punishable by jail time.
And speaking of "beating". Have you been beaten up *many times* because of your race ? Has anyone ever said "Gee you are smart for a Spic..Just teasing.. Yuck,Yuck". Have the police stopped,searched and cuffed you as you were walking in your OWN neighborhood because you don't fit the "profile of the neighborhood" ? And speaking of walking - what about people throwing bottles at you and screaming insults just because of your skin color. Have you been denied a loan because of your race ? What about someone's parents telling you to "stay away from our daughter" because they don't want her marrying a person "of color". And the classic ..
"You should know your place !" I've got LOTS more personal stories like this some alot worse than what I've put down.
We both know you have no experience at all with any of the above and if you have its only been isolated incidents and not related to any pattern. Because if you had then you wouldn't be comparing your problems with "political correctness" to the painful realities that minorities deal with every day ! I suppose if you want to rank "fried chicken" comments about Tiger Woods up there with this then you are entitled but its terribly sad that you think it should be cool for some to be able to make crude,cliche jokes about someone of another color. Thats NOT cool. It never has been and I sincerely hope that it never will be.
Seems to me that *some* WHMs don't ever want to hear anything about the privilege they enjoy in this society OR the problems that minorities and women have to deal with on a daily basis. And when these topics come up some WHMs want to try to play the martyr card (like they even could) which is so tragic and sad because they don't even know what it is they should be complaining about except maybe some "sexual harassment case" or how "some feminist" sued to get membership at a male only country club. Like this is a sign of the coming Apocalypse.... Get real John. Your demongraphic calls the shots in the US and thats reality. Quit acting like you are "the oppressed".
I dont' even want to pretend to tolerate this crap. If you want to play like you are somehow being dumped on by society then go ahead but don't expect me to accept it as anything but what it is - an insult to those who have put up with a LOT more crap than you can ever imagine. Lots of people work hard and carve out a life here despite the problems associated with "color" and "gender" but there is always some guy who wants to remind the minorities that they aren't calling the shots - "someone" else is.
I couldn't but help note what horrible problems *Some* WHMS have these days. It must be tough to be at the "bottom of the food chain"...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/keye/20050714/lo_k...tsheftypayraise
Edited by diazbroLink to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
"johniam said:
If a man hits a woman he can get several years in prison.
So he shouldn't ? Dunno about you but I do NOT want to exist in a society where beating women is NOT a crime punishable by jail time."
Ah, you must have missed the thread a while back where johniam supported a man hitting a woman "when she deserved it"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BluzieQ
Hey Nandon,
I just wanted to say I'm sorry you went through all that with the Way. What a disturbing story. How awful they would do that to your family. I can see why you feel the way you do...
Bluzie Q
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BluzieQ
Hi Wayfer Not!
Thanks for the welcome and for sharing your story. Whoa - 20 years! I'm glad you finally saw the light
:)--> And that you're getting over Waybrain. It sounds like you've made a lot of progress...
Amen to that!
And thank you for posting!
BluzieQ
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BluzieQ
Diazbro,
That was a great post. Thanks for speaking up - that needed to be said.
Yep. Sad, but true. I wonder if johniam will respond. Or maybe he's off at a board meeting somewhere giving himself a raise...
BluzieQ
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BluzieQ
Scary. Really, really SCARY.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
jardinero
Thanks, Diazbro. I appreciate you speaking up.
Yeah, John. Try being a woman AND a minority in business management and see how the cards fall - - I can tell you it ain't just.
And try having bi-racial kids - - one of whom while sitting at home on the porch minding his own business was accosted by a prejudiced police officer who just didn't think a kid with a "nice tan" should be sitting out in a predominantly white neighborhood.
Yeah, WHMs have it rough!
-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
I am so god dam sick of whining people who think they're BETTER than me cause I'm white. Did you read what you posted? You think your life is more "legitimate" ...more "important" than mine just because I'm white and I supposedly haven't suffered in life as much as you. You think your racial heritage, which is flesh is more important than the wisdom of God, which is spiritual and which makes foolish the wisdom of this world. Condoleezza Rice and Clarence Thomas didn't get to where they are by whining. Are they "sellouts"?
My reality is different than yours but no less relevant. Few months ago I put myself at risk out in public along these lines; I was at the check out lane and my daughter was with me and she asked about a tabloid front page which said Bush knew and could have prevented 911. I am a Bush supporter so I spun my answer that way. Told her it was bs.
Well, this black man behind us starts in on me. I tried to ignore him (this was on a Friday night, by the way...crowded) but he kept it up. Finally I asked him how many beers he had. He then got righteously indignant and threatened to get physical with me in the parking lot.
At that point I knew for sure he was only doing this because he was a racist, so I got LOUD. REAL REAL LOUD. I told him what a racist I thought he was in several different ways without swearing. There's 12 checkout lanes in the store. Everybody anywhere near all 12 lanes could hear me. I was merely curious as to how boldly he would be willing to spew his racism at me if the whole community was listening.
Security was called; the store manager came over. The black man was silent by then. Interestingly, the store manager, who is white, assumed it was all my fault until he asked the girl who checked us out, who is black, and she told him it was the black guy's fault. The man and the female companion he was with were escorted out of the store by security, after which my daughter and I got the same thing. I'll bet that guy's going to think before he ever decides that a grocery store is racist friendly again.
That's the reality I live in. That doesn't happen every day, but it could. I have absolutely no control over Enron, or any of the other stuff you alluded to; I have the right to speak my mind about whatever ....es me off just as you do. I don't care if you're offended by that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
Wha Wha Johniam, look whose whining now?
I know I'm only hearing one side of the story about the store but one thing that really stood out to me was that you were excorted out the door too.
I have a question for you. Did the black man start calling you names that were racial or did you bring up that he was being biased?
I still remember what you said about you believing a woman should be struck. I don't have much respect with that nor other opinions that you have.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
ya know i have hit and kicked a few walls in my life and only hurt myself
nobody has a right to hit anybody be it man or woman
we are supposed to be smartter than that
if you are angry
leave and take a walk don't hit you don't have the right to do that and neither do i
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
i have to kind ofagree with one of john post
i was a rough tough lineman for years
my last 3 years befor retirement i was promoted to the office
my secratary was a gal about my age and she always looked great and i wanted to to tell her that and open a door for her etc. but thanks to a class we had to take called
cultral diversity awareness
i never dared to for fear of reprocussions
i was brought upto be polite to everyone and i think it's a damn shame that we have to be concerned if we offend when all we want to do is be nice as mom taught us to be
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
People DID say that there are things about prejudice and discrimination that it is difficult, if not impossible, to understand, if you are not the object of it. Having a person of another ethnic group treat you in a rude manner, or even with a prejudiced or bigotted mindset is not the same as being subjected to discrimination.
The closest that I have EVER come to institutional racsim and discrimination was during my WOW year. The other WOWs and myself were treated very poorly by many of the other residents. I lost a job because my boss' church put pressure on him to fire me. We were harrassed incessantly. As rotten as it all was, it would have STOPPED if we had renounced The Way and joined a mainstream church. Or we could laid low when we got to town; no one would ever know, because we looked like everyone else. Black people cannot stop being black.
Y'know, maybe there ARE things like affirmative action, and maybe WHM's are blamed for all the world's ills, but for the most part, they (we, I guess) are still in charge, and are hardly a downtrodden underclass
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
If I'm whining then so is anyone who has complained about TWI.
The black man didn't play the race card; he played the democrat card; said Republicans were making all the world's problems (which, to him meant white people) but I could really smell alcohol on his breath and when he physically threatened me I kinda went off on him. Black people are no more the "master race" than blue eyed blondes. They can definitely be tempted with bias; so can anybody else. At least THIS time, I wasn't afraid to keep him honest.
Also, he did this right in front of my kid!!! Not smart. What kind of message does it send to a kid if I just sit there and take abuse like that? It says, "How can my dad protect me if he won't even protect himself?"
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
Christian bashing is a popular form of bigotry. Interesting that you say your boss' church put pressure on him to fire you. That's just like Igotout being pressured to fire "copped out" believers from HIS business. But you shouldn't want to stop being what you believe in. Black people shouldn't want to stop being black. It's the other people's problem. That kind of prejudice on the WOW field et al just strengthened my resolve to be a believer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
What kind of message did you send to your kid?
Well, I would have kept quiet and then when we left explained to my child that sometimes to de esculate a situation is to walk away from it. Sometimes the best way is to ignore the idiots. They look more stupid if no one responds.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
I'm sorry for the derail bluzieQ.
I think sometimes we were taught with twi that we had to stand up and let them know the 'truth'.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BluzieQ
Hey vickles,
No need to apologize
:)--> I think you made some good points (I think seeing a parent act like a screaming hothead in a grocery checkout line can't send a child any kind of message I'd want to see sent to a kid.)
Anyway, you didn't derail the thread...
BluzieQ
Link to comment
Share on other sites
BluzieQ
Um, maybe to play well with others?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
diazbro
Oh John. Again I say that I don't think you represent the average WHM and thank God for that. I really do. And I'm sure that there are plenty WHMs who do too.
You are following the script that many self righteous guys before you have followed. The more talk about minorities and discrimination which emerges, the more defensive you become which in turn only magnifies your unwillingness to acknowledge what is well known and you yourself freely admit (though complain about) -
That your demographic calls the shots and any discussion of that is met with utter hostility and resentment towards those who bring it up. You don't want to understand problems asscoiated with racism as much as you want to preserve protection from vocal minority voices as if there exists some law to "make 'them' go away and be quiet".( By the way don't count on it). You take for granted the privilege your skin color and gender afford you because you've never had to exist any other way. No one has asked you to apologize for that but at least step up and acknowledge it.
Your posts remind me of some infamous grafitti that keeps returning to workplace bathroom walls all over this country. I've seen it hundreds of times. No doubt John you are quite familiar with it:
"black is beautiful and
tan is grand,
but white is the color of
the big boss man"
Of course it is true and we all know it is so why
not acknowledge it ? But graffitti like this is the product of resentment resulting from the realization
that minorities have been systematcially shafted and now wish to address it. So the "author" of this type of thing seeks to remind those minorities that they can complain all they want but its still a white world. But of course they (the authors) are reduced to writing stuff like this on bathroom walls instead of speaking up about it in public. How admirable. "Lets demoralize minorities with bathroom grafitti".
Ah yes and you pull up isolated, anecdotal evidence to justify your attitudes. You haven't a clue about dealing with systematic, patterned discrimination - and you should be thankful for that ! You really should count your blessings because given your reaction to even this limited amount of exchange on race issues you would crumble like a cookie if you had to endure discrimination that is common to the daily minority experience. Your dislike of the reality that minorities wish to advance themselves (just like white people have been doing for years) does not change anything so you should practice acceptance of this "reality" and quit trying to keep everything so "black and white". Your "reality" is based upon the preservation of a way of life that excludes consideration of others and the problems they have had to deal with (and countinue to do so) on a systematic basis.
The equality that minorities seek doesn't come at the expense of your personal freedom which you seem to believe to be the case. If your life is inconvenienced or you are irritated by the reality that racial prejudice has kept many a person down then thats nothing in comparison to what people have endured to get to a place that they can
pursue the very opportunities that you take for granted.
But John if you are convinced that you are right then write a letter to your local newspaper and voice these opinions using the same language you have here. Why not ? Why not share you enlightened (no pun intended) views with your community, your congressman, even the president. If you are so sure that you are right and its the minorities who have the problems then surely it will resonate with those of a kindred spirit and you can suppress the troublemakers, write a book, and go on the lecture circuit.
Oh so God is a white heterosexual male too ?
So he must be at the bottom of the food chain too then... Poor guy...
So I get it.... In God's eyes we are all the same so no one should ever complain about racial injustice because of that ? What an ultra lame move John.
Lastly I would like to know what your objections are relative to jail time for men who assault women. I've seen others post some things and you certainly haven't denied what has been posted but perhaps you yourself can state what it is you feel to be so bad about jail time for women beaters if in fact you have a problem with that.
Edited by diazbroLink to comment
Share on other sites
Oakspear
I am fully capable of physically defending myself. I have some martial arts training that I keep up on, and can take care of the average big mouth-tough guy (and am smart enough to recognize those who I CAN'T take on). My kids know this, and the young people that I work with know this. I can't recall any incidents like yours when I was with my kids, but it happens all too frequently where I work.
Big mouthed, drunken idiots start trouble all the time. I have been threatened with all manner of beatings and mutilation, I have been called every name in the book. Usually I keep my voice calm, my body language non-threatening, but prepared for anything. I don't let the morons get me going. Generally, the response from my younger co-workers is admiration for the way I stayed calm in the face of abuse, and derisive laughter at the knucklehead who thought he was something, when he was really a bag of hot air.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
Just like your own shadow, right?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
Why don't you explain why you are, apparently, OK with a woman killing her 5 children.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
johniam
No, actually, I am not familiar with that grafitti message. Like I said, non white people are more prejudiced against white people than the reverse. One difference I have observed is that many minorities, especially the ones who have a forum like Al Sharpton, seem to think that their whole entire identity is their minority status. That's what I was alluding to when I said...
You think your racial heritage, which is flesh is more important than the wisdom of God, which is spiritual and which makes foolish the wisdom of this world.
My identity is spiritual. Even white people who don't believe in God generally don't think being white is their whole identity.
Yes, in the category of flesh minorities have a definite disadvantage (not all of them, but most probably). But I'm not anybody's "big boss man" except my kids and that's temporary. I still believe that it's Christ in me and that's more important than being any demopgraphic. That's just how I think, so my identity is not destroyed just because VP couldn't keep his dick in his pants. Using race or gender as an excuse to blow off Christ in you is what's really lame.
By your last post you seem to think that God is powerless to help you just because you're not white. Raf isn't like that. Is he also a "sellout" just because he got a promotion?
I don't know what else to say.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.