With the fact in mind that your dad yells, gets red in the face, and basically just reacts very badly to when folks do or believe a way other than he approves of, you might want to consult your therapist about the best way to go about telling your parents about this site and/or your beliefs.
When you have an objective ear to guide you and help you realize that you are ok exactly as you are...it helps when facing those who might not be so balanced in their views on things.
You have every right to believe as you want to.
And sometimes having someone that can validate that for you if/when your parents don't is a wonderful thing.
There are a few people here that were raised in twi that will have MUCH better insights than I am giving you!!!
Welcome BluzieQ! Sometimes the best way to deter us from taking the wrong path as adults is to grow up seeing how destructive it was in our parent's lives. Good for you for seeing the dangers and pitfalls and avoiding them instead of continuing in the abusive behavior/victim cycle as an adult.
Cindy! has some good advice about consulting a therapist because they are trained and can give helpful advice to those of us who are in permanent relationships with people with rage issues.
Good. I'm glad you're staying a while! Have some mocha java on me:-)
I think you little guys who had to endure the way lifestyle of your parents were the worst treated of all.
I am so glad that you were able to think for yourself when you grew up, many are so beaten down that they never do.
As for your parents, consider this, if you push the belief issue, they might sever contact....
It is very sad, but if they come to the conclusion that you are *posessed* which they probably will, if you don`t pretend to accept the way doctrine...... you will be viewed as a danger.
It sounds like by the renewed interest....they may have found a splinter group to fellowship with....some of them are as nasty and destructive than twi was....
You have to understand...if they consider any other doctrine, they will have to come to grips with the fact that they have been wrong their entire adult lives, they have been used and thrown away like so much garbage.
It is a bitter pill to swallow the truth that your entire adult life, all of your decisions, all of the sacrafices were for nothing.....that rather than being a mighty athlete for God as we supposed, we were filling evil mens bellies, making them rich and gicing them power beyond reason over our lives.
It is a shame filled, embarrassing thing to have to face....
Much easier by far to make excuses for the ministry and their doctrines failure....if you get enough folks around agreeing with you....one can crawl back into the safety of the little box that they exist in....where they have all of the answeres and their little world makes sense.
It is your choice, you will need to draw some firm lines in the sand at the very least, especially when your children come along.
I might consider giving them this web addy and and ask them to help answere some questions that have arrisen in your mind.... kind of like you are considering their words, but are confused....that keeps you safe.
As I am sure that you have noticed, being "likeminded" is not required for being or posting here. In fact, one of the nice things about this place is... We all have our own minds with a variety of opinions on a variety of subjects.
Enjoy your stay, and stay as long as you want. ;)-->
As a parent, I have to be honest and say it's not always easy for us to hear criticism of our beliefs or views from our children. We should be able to, but in reality, it might be a little tough to swallow.
I think Cindy's suggestion of asking your counsellor how to broach the subject is a good idea. An objective person's opinion is valuable in a touchy situation like this.
I raised my son in twi from the time he was 5 until he left for college at 18. He's still resentful at times, although I have reminded him that it was probably a better life than he would have had if his mom had remained a dope-smoking, partying hippie thoughout his childhood and youth. He agrees. :-)
I'm glad you've been able to forgive your folks. We, as parents, did the best we knew how, imperfect though that might have been.
I like what TimTim said, too. Mutual respect is a good thing. If I had family still in twi or zealously promoting all its doctrines, I'd like to hope I could still love and respect them, and it sounds like you do.
I got involved of my own choice when I was 14 (8th grade --> initially) and left when I was in my 40s. I never had my own children, but I spent most of my life watching (and babysitting ) my friends raise their kids in twi. I totally understand where Linda Z is coming from, most of my friends...would say the same thing.
A number of the kids that I baby sat and hung out with and helped raise, are now out of twi (their parents still in) and they have contacted me and we have re-established long term wonderful relationships.
There are A TON of exway kids that are adults that now post here....some, with families still in twi, some with families that still cling to twi teachings.
CONTACT THESE FOLKS....they are a wealth of pain and tears and wisdom and joy. One thing I have noticed, for the most part....they have learned how to live with their situation. You can private topic these folks.....some dont check everyday...but most, would answer you truly and honestly. Look for TimTim, LindyHopper, P-Mosh, Thelema, Georgio Jessio...etc. Go back thru the friend finders and find the Jr corps threads.
Vaya con dios ....... you can make some great strides here at g-spot. There is alot of healing to be had.
I was raised in TWI as well. My mom, my brother and I got involved in 1980, I believe, when I was 5. I now have my mom, step-dad, 2brothers,and their families in twi still. So, I understand the issues you are dealing with. It took me a little longer to wake up I think. I left about 5? years ago. I don't know, it seems like light years.
I think to a degree the relationship and the decision to discuss these things depends largely on the individual families. It was tough for me at first. I was concerned they wouldn't talk to me ever again (not an uncommon practice in the late 90's and early 00's). It took them a while to come around. Getting married, having a kid and living a life that was still morally and ethically agreeable as well as being healthy and happy in general must have helped them too.
We too have some sort of unspoken agreement to not talk about beliefs or anything of major substance. Although, that just seems to be how our family has communicated for quite some time. I would love to have some deep, challenging, and thoughtful conversations regarding twi doctrine or philosophy or science, but I realize that they don't react to new ideas or confrontational POV the way I do. I am still their kid. I know they love me, but I can't help but be a little concerned about how they view me as a person. I suppose that is what hinders me. But, in recent months I have been able to challenge their personal, social and world views (which have all been shaped by TWI). I think that has had to help them think a little differently. If nothing else it is helpful for me to do so.
I would say if you discuss things with your parents it would be in your interest to really be careful in the way you state your opinions. Some people are good at this some are not. I think I tend to be pretty good about this in person. Don't judge this based on my online discussion ;)-->. I think one good way to do this is probably the same way you learned to think critically in college. Ask a lot of questions. Steer them to your point by directing the questions in that fashion. Allow them to come to your conclusion, whether they believe it or not. That alone helps people to begin thinking in new ways. This can be very challenging for you. You have to start from their viewpoint and work you way out of it before hand. In TWI all the answers were there for us. As others have said, to realize that your were wrong or to challenge a long held belief is a huge step for anyone and sometimes an impossible step.
My approach has been to not cause too much contention and to slowly slip in comments until we arrived at a point were we could have a discussion. They don't usually get far, but you have to start somewhere I suppose.
You can always reach me at my email in my profile if you would like to discuss something privately.
I wasn't raised in the Way, but my dad had his own thing and it became difficult to deal with. I think joining the Way was a "rebellion" of sorts against his own beliefs.
Only recently has he, at age 87, stopped with the rants about what's wrong with the world.
You know, he's a smart guy, and many of his observations and beliefs are valid, up to a point. Where he goes off the deep end is in his fanatical adherence to that dogma. He doesn't see it. Never did. But it's his anchor.
I don't know how your parents will grow or change, but if they left the Way, they are still capable.
You should become more familiar with the Way's history, as told here. Ask them if they knew about... Passing of the Patriarch, for instance.
I think you're better off with some degree of confrontation, not hell-bent yelling, but honest confrontation, than just agreeing to disagree. They are family, not strangers. What you don't regain, you will lose anyway, so you have little to lose.
You have a little homework to do if you've only been here a short while. Get familiar. Find your voice. Other Way kids may have similar experiences, but they are not you, as they would also be quick to point out.
Learn as much as you can, then trust your instincts.
That is just my opinion. Don't take it if it doesn't ring true for you.
I'm not sure a confrontation would be a good thing for you...sounds like their minds are made up...and if that's the case...you'll not convince them of anything that is contrary to what they believe...there will only be arguing and hard feelings...let them live in their fantasy world...and love em anyway. ;)-->
Thanks for all of your replies -- and for the offers of coffee. I'll take a double latte ;)-->
Coolchef - I agree. It doesn't feel productive to talk to them. At the same time it feels bizarre to ignore this whole huge topic. I do continue to love them and for the most part we have a decent relationship. Other than the little issue of us not really knowing each other on a deep level...
Cindy! - Thanks for the welcome and the suggestion of talking to my therapist about how to broach the topic. That's a really good idea.
Bluzeman - I like your name too!
Waterbuffalo - I agree with what you said about learning from a parent's mistakes - it can be really valuable. I try to remind myself that if I hadn't gone through all the Way junk I wouldn't be at the point where I am today, and I'm pretty happy with where I am today.
It's hard not to feel some anger, though, that they *still* are trying to push this stuff on me.
Rascal - Wow, 17 is very young ... you were pretty much a kid too. How did you first learn about/join TWI?
It does cross my mind that my parents might decide I'm "possessed" - especially after the way my dad was talking so much about 'devil spirits' recently when he and my mom visited me.
And I have thought a lot about what it would be like for them to realize that the beliefs they've held their entire adult lives are wrong ... it would be very hard and painful. I almost wonder if they'd even be able to handle it, to come to terms with it. I'm almost afraid of what would happen if I pushed them to look at the facts. They are very, very emotionally invested in the TWI doctrine and believing only they and a few others are special and have "the truth" (as I'm sure most Way followers are.) I'm sure it would be embarrassing to have to face it ... and I kind of don't want to be the smart-mouthed daughter forcing them to face it (or make up elaborate reasons why not to face it.)
I don't think they've found a splinter group though. They're in a really small town and I think they just read the stuff on their own.
I liked what you said about its being easier to just make excuses for the ministry and the doctrine's failure... I think that's very true. I have noticed that the same stuff in life (bad and good) that happens to everybody on this planet happens to the people in TWI just the same ... the difference is that the people in TWI and those who still follow its doctrines are very, very good at making up elaborate stories to make the events mean anything they want them to mean...it's truly incredible sometimes. They're definitely playing mental Twister. The same stuff that happens to anybody happens to my dad. He and my mom are no more prosperous or fortunate than any other average person, yet in his mind they're "operating the principles." It's like a spritual soap opera in their minds or something ... If something bad happens, it's the adversary trying to get to them! If something good happens, they're believing big! Ugh.
Anwyay, thanks for your post...you have a lot of good insight.
TimTim - Sounds like you have a good arrangement that works for you and your family. The "unspoken rule" thing works wonders, doesn't it!?
LindaZ - Thank you so much for your thoughts. I know it can't be easy for a parent who thought they were doing the right thing and then realized they weren't. I think it's great that you and your son have an open enough relationship where you can talk about these things.
Radar - Your post was really encouraging. It feels good to know there are other who have been through this!
Lindy - Thank you. I can really relate to what you wrote. It really is a struggle, isn't it? Re: the whole shallow conversation thing -- It feels strange to not really know my parents - I mean, who *they* are, what *they* think because all I've ever gotten is what TWI thinks. It's so strange - only in reading this board am I realizing that so many little things I had thought were just quirks of my parents or little oddities particular to them are actually TWI teachings! (Ie; they've always had disparaging comments to make about people who go to therapy ... we weren't allowed to have "big" pets but could have small ones ... I was told that there was no Santa ... they were really into health food) It really freaks me out - I am wondering a lot what my family would have been like had they never encountered the Way.
I think it's great that you are making progress in your relationship with your family, in being able to have conversations with them and to discuss things. I'm sure it's slow (and delicate) going.
Can I ask what it was that finally made you decide to leave TWI while your family stayed in? That must have taken a lot of guts with so many family members involved.
And thanks for your suggestions on how to bring this stuff up with my parents...I appreciate it.
And thanks again to you all. It's very comfortaing to talk with you all and hear your points of view and know others have come through this okay ...
I'll buy that next double latte! We'll have your head spinning and you bouncing off the walls before you walk through that door again. If you'd rather have a danish to go with one of the lattes coming your way, I'll buy that instead. :)-->
I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said. I wasn't raised in TWI, but because of wonderful children who were raised in TWI and now have to deal with that, I'm sorta glad that my ex and I didn't have kids. I left, my ex stayed in.
I would recommend reading Steve Hassan's "Freedom of Mind: Helping People Think for Themselves". It gives examples of how to have the conversations Lindy talked about. It also suggests talking to the "authentic self" of the people you're concerned about. With your parents, I think that would include asking them questions about their life before TWI, without calling it that..... ;)--> Life in h.s., fun, silly things they did growing up, what it was like anticipating Santa that they probably believed in growing up....those kinds of things.
You do have to be sensitive to their limits and not push them or they might respond by cutting the ties or making it less than pleasant to be around them. Please feel free to contact me in private topics or my e-mail in my profile. I don't have as much to draw on as the posters who were raised in TWI, but I'd be happy to help in any way I can.
Wow! I would hate to think that my kids would grow up and be afraid to talk to me.
My ex-husband and I have two boys who were still very young when we left TWI.
We spent some time in residence at Indiana campus before separating (while in residence - but that's another story). It horrified me as to how the children were treated at that campus.
In particular a group of four 18 month old babies who were made to sit in a row and listen to stories or endure some other "structured activity". They were then whacked with the "rod" if they so much as moved a hair on their head. One of the four was my son.
I was also reproved heavily if my 18mnth old son cried during the meal time preaching session which often went on for half an hour. It was unbearable.
Thank God we didn't stay there long, I love my kids and that was nothing more than child abuse.
It was made worse when I was transfered from grounds work to children's activities and was expected to be one of the abusers to all of these wonderful little children. Let's just say I was halled over the coals a LOT.
I feel great shame that I subjected by kids to any of this type of treatment, let alone a whole life time.
I know your parents must love you dearly. No parent wants to hurt their child. We were all brain-washed into thinking we were doing the best thing for our kids by not "sparing the rod". But sooner or later sanity has to overcome the illogic of it all.
I hope that over time you can establish the kind of open relationship you want with your parents.
Wow! My situation and the way I've handled things with family is almost identical to Lindyhopper. Do I know you? :)--> Anyway, I'm actually very blown away to hear the parents side of it from some of you! Any other advice from the parents point of view would be really cool to hear and may help Bluzie too.
For a while it seemed my parents had gotten away from it, but I know they've always believed all the doctrine. Recently, my dad has been rereading all of his old Way books and seems to be really getting back into it.
Do your parents (and especially your dad), know that the *old Way books* are now history, and no longer taught? Does he know that if he is following the
*doctrine* from the pfal series, he will be at odds with the way ministry that is presently in evidence today?
Does he realize that docvic"s teachings are in the can, and lcm's are now the
*present truth* (or whatever they call it)?
I'm only asking this -- because if he is looking at the pfal series and thinking (today) that that is what twi is all about, he is in for a very rude awakening were he to try and get involved with them again in these times. This is not the *kinder gentler* twi that he probably knew back in the 70's.
Sorry -- didn't mean to de-rail your thread, but I was curious if he knew how much times have changed there, or not.
and ps. --- I was 23 when I got in, so I can't help with the *raised in the way* question, but looking over all these posts, there's a lot of advice and experience for you to draw from. :)-->
thanks for posting! always good hearing those who were "raised in the Word" getting out of the mind-bending grip of "the Way". It sounds like college opened your eyes, and emancipated you from the physical, mental, and spiritual slavery of the way. one of the best things LCM did was exhort all of us young folks to go to college!! BWHAHA!! little did he know in all of his glorious revelation that university would get rid of most of the future generations of way robots.
i too, was raised in the way bubble from a small child to adult....breaking the news of "not standing" put my visiting status of all way family members on hiatus. They were waiting for me to be a greasespot by midnight, but it never happened. instead, i flourished. i finished university, worked interesting jobs in other countries, followed my heart, and am loving life. i found out who my true friends were. they were NOT those who turned their backs after many, many years of friendship just for questioning way beliefs and practices.
now, my innie family cannot get enough of me. the subject of the way does not come up, but we still have interesting conversations. i think they are still holding out hope, but i respect them, and they respect me. they know i am happy, and am doing the best ive ever been. the best way is to lead by example, because they cannot refute or be disappointed by the life i now lead. they must accept that there is life outside of the way, and it is still abundant, more than abundant. they are not the only one with the answers, just another christian group begging for money and to sap your life dry.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
bluzie welcome
let me buy your next cup
thanks for sharing your story
it think it might not be productive to talk to people who are brainwashed not matter what cult or religion they are involved ig
good luck
continue to love them they are your parents
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Cindy!
BluzieQ....WELCOME to GS!!!
With the fact in mind that your dad yells, gets red in the face, and basically just reacts very badly to when folks do or believe a way other than he approves of, you might want to consult your therapist about the best way to go about telling your parents about this site and/or your beliefs.
When you have an objective ear to guide you and help you realize that you are ok exactly as you are...it helps when facing those who might not be so balanced in their views on things.
You have every right to believe as you want to.
And sometimes having someone that can validate that for you if/when your parents don't is a wonderful thing.
There are a few people here that were raised in twi that will have MUCH better insights than I am giving you!!!
Best of luck and let us know how it goes!!!
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Bluzeman
Welcome BluzieQ!
Nice name!
:)-->
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waterbuffalo
Welcome BluzieQ! Sometimes the best way to deter us from taking the wrong path as adults is to grow up seeing how destructive it was in our parent's lives. Good for you for seeing the dangers and pitfalls and avoiding them instead of continuing in the abusive behavior/victim cycle as an adult.
Cindy! has some good advice about consulting a therapist because they are trained and can give helpful advice to those of us who are in permanent relationships with people with rage issues.
Good. I'm glad you're staying a while! Have some mocha java on me:-)
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rascal
Welcome Welcome!!
I think you little guys who had to endure the way lifestyle of your parents were the worst treated of all.
I am so glad that you were able to think for yourself when you grew up, many are so beaten down that they never do.
As for your parents, consider this, if you push the belief issue, they might sever contact....
It is very sad, but if they come to the conclusion that you are *posessed* which they probably will, if you don`t pretend to accept the way doctrine...... you will be viewed as a danger.
It sounds like by the renewed interest....they may have found a splinter group to fellowship with....some of them are as nasty and destructive than twi was....
You have to understand...if they consider any other doctrine, they will have to come to grips with the fact that they have been wrong their entire adult lives, they have been used and thrown away like so much garbage.
It is a bitter pill to swallow the truth that your entire adult life, all of your decisions, all of the sacrafices were for nothing.....that rather than being a mighty athlete for God as we supposed, we were filling evil mens bellies, making them rich and gicing them power beyond reason over our lives.
It is a shame filled, embarrassing thing to have to face....
Much easier by far to make excuses for the ministry and their doctrines failure....if you get enough folks around agreeing with you....one can crawl back into the safety of the little box that they exist in....where they have all of the answeres and their little world makes sense.
It is your choice, you will need to draw some firm lines in the sand at the very least, especially when your children come along.
I might consider giving them this web addy and and ask them to help answere some questions that have arrisen in your mind.... kind of like you are considering their words, but are confused....that keeps you safe.
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rascal
Oh, and there are several folks here that were raised in twi, I got involved when I was 17....still pretty young.
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DaddyHoundog
Hey there -- Welcome,
my thought is that eventually, your folks might just be willing to look at this web site...
unfortuantely - you'll probably have to name drop a few people to get there attention
Either way, WELCOME...
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Zshot
BluzieQ,
Let me add a welcome as well.
As I am sure that you have noticed, being "likeminded" is not required for being or posting here. In fact, one of the nice things about this place is... We all have our own minds with a variety of opinions on a variety of subjects.
Enjoy your stay, and stay as long as you want.
;)-->
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Linda Z
Welcome, BluzieQ. What an articulate first post!
As a parent, I have to be honest and say it's not always easy for us to hear criticism of our beliefs or views from our children. We should be able to, but in reality, it might be a little tough to swallow.
I think Cindy's suggestion of asking your counsellor how to broach the subject is a good idea. An objective person's opinion is valuable in a touchy situation like this.
I raised my son in twi from the time he was 5 until he left for college at 18. He's still resentful at times, although I have reminded him that it was probably a better life than he would have had if his mom had remained a dope-smoking, partying hippie thoughout his childhood and youth. He agrees. :-)
I'm glad you've been able to forgive your folks. We, as parents, did the best we knew how, imperfect though that might have been.
I like what TimTim said, too. Mutual respect is a good thing. If I had family still in twi or zealously promoting all its doctrines, I'd like to hope I could still love and respect them, and it sounds like you do.
Hope you find the answer that's right for you.
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Radar OReilly
BQzie
:)-->
Welcome to gspot.
I got involved of my own choice when I was 14 (8th grade
--> initially) and left when I was in my 40s. I never had my own children, but I spent most of my life watching (and babysitting 
) my friends raise their kids in twi. I totally understand where Linda Z is coming from, most of my friends...would say the same thing.
A number of the kids that I baby sat and hung out with and helped raise, are now out of twi (their parents still in) and they have contacted me and we have re-established long term wonderful relationships.
There are A TON of exway kids that are adults that now post here....some, with families still in twi, some with families that still cling to twi teachings.
CONTACT THESE FOLKS....they are a wealth of pain and tears and wisdom and joy. One thing I have noticed, for the most part....they have learned how to live with their situation. You can private topic these folks.....some dont check everyday...but most, would answer you truly and honestly. Look for TimTim, LindyHopper, P-Mosh, Thelema, Georgio Jessio...etc. Go back thru the friend finders and find the Jr corps threads.
Vaya con dios ....... you can make some great strides here at g-spot. There is alot of healing to be had.
ror
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def59
welcome Blu
We all got ground up with twi think.
You'll find help here.
Has anyone offered her some coffee?
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lindyhopper
Welcome BluzieQ,
I like the name too.
I was raised in TWI as well. My mom, my brother and I got involved in 1980, I believe, when I was 5. I now have my mom, step-dad, 2brothers,and their families in twi still. So, I understand the issues you are dealing with. It took me a little longer to wake up I think. I left about 5? years ago. I don't know, it seems like light years.
I think to a degree the relationship and the decision to discuss these things depends largely on the individual families. It was tough for me at first. I was concerned they wouldn't talk to me ever again (not an uncommon practice in the late 90's and early 00's). It took them a while to come around. Getting married, having a kid and living a life that was still morally and ethically agreeable as well as being healthy and happy in general must have helped them too.
We too have some sort of unspoken agreement to not talk about beliefs or anything of major substance. Although, that just seems to be how our family has communicated for quite some time. I would love to have some deep, challenging, and thoughtful conversations regarding twi doctrine or philosophy or science, but I realize that they don't react to new ideas or confrontational POV the way I do. I am still their kid. I know they love me, but I can't help but be a little concerned about how they view me as a person. I suppose that is what hinders me. But, in recent months I have been able to challenge their personal, social and world views (which have all been shaped by TWI). I think that has had to help them think a little differently. If nothing else it is helpful for me to do so.
I would say if you discuss things with your parents it would be in your interest to really be careful in the way you state your opinions. Some people are good at this some are not. I think I tend to be pretty good about this in person. Don't judge this based on my online discussion
;)-->. I think one good way to do this is probably the same way you learned to think critically in college. Ask a lot of questions. Steer them to your point by directing the questions in that fashion. Allow them to come to your conclusion, whether they believe it or not. That alone helps people to begin thinking in new ways. This can be very challenging for you. You have to start from their viewpoint and work you way out of it before hand. In TWI all the answers were there for us. As others have said, to realize that your were wrong or to challenge a long held belief is a huge step for anyone and sometimes an impossible step.
My approach has been to not cause too much contention and to slowly slip in comments until we arrived at a point were we could have a discussion. They don't usually get far, but you have to start somewhere I suppose.
You can always reach me at my email in my profile if you would like to discuss something privately.
Lindy
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lindyhopper
Mr Pmosh is another who was raised in TWI, although he may have decided to take a break from here for a while.
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satori001
I wasn't raised in the Way, but my dad had his own thing and it became difficult to deal with. I think joining the Way was a "rebellion" of sorts against his own beliefs.
Only recently has he, at age 87, stopped with the rants about what's wrong with the world.
You know, he's a smart guy, and many of his observations and beliefs are valid, up to a point. Where he goes off the deep end is in his fanatical adherence to that dogma. He doesn't see it. Never did. But it's his anchor.
I don't know how your parents will grow or change, but if they left the Way, they are still capable.
You should become more familiar with the Way's history, as told here. Ask them if they knew about... Passing of the Patriarch, for instance.
I think you're better off with some degree of confrontation, not hell-bent yelling, but honest confrontation, than just agreeing to disagree. They are family, not strangers. What you don't regain, you will lose anyway, so you have little to lose.
You have a little homework to do if you've only been here a short while. Get familiar. Find your voice. Other Way kids may have similar experiences, but they are not you, as they would also be quick to point out.
Learn as much as you can, then trust your instincts.
That is just my opinion. Don't take it if it doesn't ring true for you.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Welcome...you are amoung friends here...
I'm not sure a confrontation would be a good thing for you...sounds like their minds are made up...and if that's the case...you'll not convince them of anything that is contrary to what they believe...there will only be arguing and hard feelings...let them live in their fantasy world...and love em anyway.
;)-->
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TimTim
Lindyhopper hit the nail on the head!
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BluzieQ
Hi again,
Thanks for all of your replies -- and for the offers of coffee. I'll take a double latte
;)-->
Coolchef - I agree. It doesn't feel productive to talk to them. At the same time it feels bizarre to ignore this whole huge topic. I do continue to love them and for the most part we have a decent relationship. Other than the little issue of us not really knowing each other on a deep level...
Cindy! - Thanks for the welcome and the suggestion of talking to my therapist about how to broach the topic. That's a really good idea.
Bluzeman - I like your name too!
Waterbuffalo - I agree with what you said about learning from a parent's mistakes - it can be really valuable. I try to remind myself that if I hadn't gone through all the Way junk I wouldn't be at the point where I am today, and I'm pretty happy with where I am today.
It's hard not to feel some anger, though, that they *still* are trying to push this stuff on me.
Rascal - Wow, 17 is very young ... you were pretty much a kid too. How did you first learn about/join TWI?
It does cross my mind that my parents might decide I'm "possessed" - especially after the way my dad was talking so much about 'devil spirits' recently when he and my mom visited me.
And I have thought a lot about what it would be like for them to realize that the beliefs they've held their entire adult lives are wrong ... it would be very hard and painful. I almost wonder if they'd even be able to handle it, to come to terms with it. I'm almost afraid of what would happen if I pushed them to look at the facts. They are very, very emotionally invested in the TWI doctrine and believing only they and a few others are special and have "the truth" (as I'm sure most Way followers are.) I'm sure it would be embarrassing to have to face it ... and I kind of don't want to be the smart-mouthed daughter forcing them to face it (or make up elaborate reasons why not to face it.)
I don't think they've found a splinter group though. They're in a really small town and I think they just read the stuff on their own.
I liked what you said about its being easier to just make excuses for the ministry and the doctrine's failure... I think that's very true. I have noticed that the same stuff in life (bad and good) that happens to everybody on this planet happens to the people in TWI just the same ... the difference is that the people in TWI and those who still follow its doctrines are very, very good at making up elaborate stories to make the events mean anything they want them to mean...it's truly incredible sometimes. They're definitely playing mental Twister. The same stuff that happens to anybody happens to my dad. He and my mom are no more prosperous or fortunate than any other average person, yet in his mind they're "operating the principles." It's like a spritual soap opera in their minds or something ... If something bad happens, it's the adversary trying to get to them! If something good happens, they're believing big! Ugh.
Anwyay, thanks for your post...you have a lot of good insight.
TimTim - Sounds like you have a good arrangement that works for you and your family. The "unspoken rule" thing works wonders, doesn't it!?
LindaZ - Thank you so much for your thoughts. I know it can't be easy for a parent who thought they were doing the right thing and then realized they weren't. I think it's great that you and your son have an open enough relationship where you can talk about these things.
Radar - Your post was really encouraging. It feels good to know there are other who have been through this!
Lindy - Thank you. I can really relate to what you wrote. It really is a struggle, isn't it? Re: the whole shallow conversation thing -- It feels strange to not really know my parents - I mean, who *they* are, what *they* think because all I've ever gotten is what TWI thinks. It's so strange - only in reading this board am I realizing that so many little things I had thought were just quirks of my parents or little oddities particular to them are actually TWI teachings! (Ie; they've always had disparaging comments to make about people who go to therapy ... we weren't allowed to have "big" pets but could have small ones ... I was told that there was no Santa ... they were really into health food) It really freaks me out - I am wondering a lot what my family would have been like had they never encountered the Way.
I think it's great that you are making progress in your relationship with your family, in being able to have conversations with them and to discuss things. I'm sure it's slow (and delicate) going.
Can I ask what it was that finally made you decide to leave TWI while your family stayed in? That must have taken a lot of guts with so many family members involved.
And thanks for your suggestions on how to bring this stuff up with my parents...I appreciate it.
And thanks again to you all. It's very comfortaing to talk with you all and hear your points of view and know others have come through this okay ...
BluzieQ
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Belle
Welcome, BluzieQ!
:D-->
I'll buy that next double latte! We'll have your head spinning and you bouncing off the walls before you walk through that door again. If you'd rather have a danish to go with one of the lattes coming your way, I'll buy that instead.
:)-->
I don't have much to say that hasn't already been said. I wasn't raised in TWI, but because of wonderful children who were raised in TWI and now have to deal with that, I'm sorta glad that my ex and I didn't have kids. I left, my ex stayed in.
I would recommend reading Steve Hassan's "Freedom of Mind: Helping People Think for Themselves". It gives examples of how to have the conversations Lindy talked about. It also suggests talking to the "authentic self" of the people you're concerned about. With your parents, I think that would include asking them questions about their life before TWI, without calling it that.....
;)--> Life in h.s., fun, silly things they did growing up, what it was like anticipating Santa that they probably believed in growing up....those kinds of things.
You do have to be sensitive to their limits and not push them or they might respond by cutting the ties or making it less than pleasant to be around them. Please feel free to contact me in private topics or my e-mail in my profile. I don't have as much to draw on as the posters who were raised in TWI, but I'd be happy to help in any way I can.
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ozbirdau
Hi Bluzie
Wow! I would hate to think that my kids would grow up and be afraid to talk to me.
My ex-husband and I have two boys who were still very young when we left TWI.
We spent some time in residence at Indiana campus before separating (while in residence - but that's another story). It horrified me as to how the children were treated at that campus.
In particular a group of four 18 month old babies who were made to sit in a row and listen to stories or endure some other "structured activity". They were then whacked with the "rod" if they so much as moved a hair on their head. One of the four was my son.
I was also reproved heavily if my 18mnth old son cried during the meal time preaching session which often went on for half an hour. It was unbearable.
Thank God we didn't stay there long, I love my kids and that was nothing more than child abuse.
It was made worse when I was transfered from grounds work to children's activities and was expected to be one of the abusers to all of these wonderful little children. Let's just say I was halled over the coals a LOT.
I feel great shame that I subjected by kids to any of this type of treatment, let alone a whole life time.
I know your parents must love you dearly. No parent wants to hurt their child. We were all brain-washed into thinking we were doing the best thing for our kids by not "sparing the rod". But sooner or later sanity has to overcome the illogic of it all.
I hope that over time you can establish the kind of open relationship you want with your parents.
Regards
Oz
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
bluzie
that post you wrote to rascal
made me weep
no santa?
i rememember the days when the ******* said ni more Christmas
i refused to heed that and ihink my kids have wonderful memories of it and thai is what counts
i know this is a very minor thing but to me it mattered
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TimTim
Wow! My situation and the way I've handled things with family is almost identical to Lindyhopper. Do I know you?
:)--> Anyway, I'm actually very blown away to hear the parents side of it from some of you! Any other advice from the parents point of view would be really cool to hear and may help Bluzie too.
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dmiller
Hey there BluzieQ, welcome!
Hey -- quick question (if I may). You said:
Do your parents (and especially your dad), know that the *old Way books* are now history, and no longer taught? Does he know that if he is following the
*doctrine* from the pfal series, he will be at odds with the way ministry that is presently in evidence today?
Does he realize that docvic"s teachings are in the can, and lcm's are now the
*present truth* (or whatever they call it)?
I'm only asking this -- because if he is looking at the pfal series and thinking (today) that that is what twi is all about, he is in for a very rude awakening were he to try and get involved with them again in these times. This is not the *kinder gentler* twi that he probably knew back in the 70's.
Sorry -- didn't mean to de-rail your thread, but I was curious if he knew how much times have changed there, or not.
David
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dmiller
and ps. --- I was 23 when I got in, so I can't help with the *raised in the way* question, but looking over all these posts, there's a lot of advice and experience for you to draw from.
:)-->
Good luck.
David
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Thelema
BluzieQ:
thanks for posting! always good hearing those who were "raised in the Word" getting out of the mind-bending grip of "the Way". It sounds like college opened your eyes, and emancipated you from the physical, mental, and spiritual slavery of the way. one of the best things LCM did was exhort all of us young folks to go to college!! BWHAHA!! little did he know in all of his glorious revelation that university would get rid of most of the future generations of way robots.
i too, was raised in the way bubble from a small child to adult....breaking the news of "not standing" put my visiting status of all way family members on hiatus. They were waiting for me to be a greasespot by midnight, but it never happened. instead, i flourished. i finished university, worked interesting jobs in other countries, followed my heart, and am loving life. i found out who my true friends were. they were NOT those who turned their backs after many, many years of friendship just for questioning way beliefs and practices.
now, my innie family cannot get enough of me. the subject of the way does not come up, but we still have interesting conversations. i think they are still holding out hope, but i respect them, and they respect me. they know i am happy, and am doing the best ive ever been. the best way is to lead by example, because they cannot refute or be disappointed by the life i now lead. they must accept that there is life outside of the way, and it is still abundant, more than abundant. they are not the only one with the answers, just another christian group begging for money and to sap your life dry.
keep posting, posting, posting!!
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