I recall the manner they publically defamed this character. For all I know he may have had a few faults, but holy smokes.
The most scathing comments regarded his financial affairs, and his marriage.
He was not "qualified" to be any kind of leader, because.. he couldn't get his wife to tow the line regarding every ministry doctrine and mandate. They called his wife an unbeliever. Made him less of a man, somehow, and at the least, "unequally yoked".
He was accused of padding the books to get a decent salary. Looking back, he probably barely got his need met, if even that.
Of course his opinion or reply was not present or welcome.
If you're REALLY a good guy in the Corps, you don't stand a chance.
One of the next few meetings, I remember the "beloved" branch coordinator's wife boasting how they "got rid of" the people that were bothering us.. ptooie.
Yes. There are WC who still care about people, etc. I'm WC. 11th to be exact. I care.
They threw me out of the WC.
What does that tell you about the ones left?
Please keep in mind, or was it just not common knowledge that in one fail swoop, I think it was 1988, or maybe '89 that about 75% of all of the WC grads at the time voluntarily left TWI because LCM demanded our specific allegence to HIM.
He sent a letter to the entire WC "household" (for lack of a better word) saying that if we didn't agree to stand w/Him and the BOT that we'd be "dropped" from the Corps.
I think the number was 75% said NO. We won't stand with YOU, in a lot of different ways.
I'm thinking the majority remnant of WC that stayed were "all of the above" in all the negative complaint we've seen & heard of WC. Gave the rest of us a REALLY bad name. A minority of WC people stayed in thinking they could stand in the gap, be a force for good in all the crap that was going down, etc.
There was a time in TWI history when The Way Corps actually did exemplify the ideals the literature speaks of. I got to know or become acquainted with just about all of the people in the first 5 Corps groups through my being on staff @ HQ when they came back for an additional year of in-residency.
I don't know how public it was that the single digit WC groups were all invited to come back to HQ for an additional in residence year. A LOT of them did. They were in residence @ HQ with the 8th, 9th, 10th, & 11th and some of them rubbed off good stuff on a lot of the later year single digit Corps.
My opinion of those first four groups was that I admired them and wanted to be like most of them. By and large they were a great group of people. How many of the later groups, especially us double digit number groups were humble enough to come BACK into residence for an additional year of training - - at our own expense both in terms of time and $$$.??? How many WC do you know who would have graciously come back for MORE training? That would require admitting to one's self that, "No, I DON't know it all."
TWI also used to actually bring in some top people to teach WC seminars & classes from OUTSIDE twi. We got to observe and be taught Dale Carnegie stuff by some of the tip top people in the Carnegie organization. Bob Richards, the Olympic Champion guy from the Wheaties box, himself came and taught some public speaking stuff to us, the 11th and 13th.
As LCM rose to power in TWI, stuff like that faded away (surprise!) TWI became full of itself. "We" strted thinking our people could teach just as well as the champions who taught them.
Is it any wonder people's heads became swollen? Not that I'm excusing them, but facts are facts.
I can confidently say that, at least for the first 11 years of TWC we were taught enough Bible and exposed to enough "good stuff" to have become great leaders for God. Regardless of all of the other crap that was going on. IMO, your level of service to people was determined by what you focused on.
Not that I now, in retrospect agree with all of the training tactics they employed. Buy I'm a veteran of a high school athletics program that by todays standards would get all of the coaches jailed for child abuse. We won more than our fair share of games though.
I think some of it was a matter of perspective. If you felt they were "being Jerks" by getting us up way to early and putting us through calestentics on the circle drive. You might act "jerky" or become a jerk in return.
I came from a twig where we literally had to save one of our people from a coven of witches who were going to kill her for a human sacrifice. No kidding. We also had a girl snatched by deprogrammers. We were up all night on both issues. Getting awakened by parishioners in trouble is "par for the pastoral course." I didn't have a problem with stuff like that even thought I hated it at the time.
I'm just speculating that in the later years, especially, of WC training people responded to the training differently. In the earlier years there were more "great people" among the groups and in the WC leadership. We helped keep other folk in line, helped people maintain perspective.
After we were gone - - it seems all hell broke loose and they were basically training folk to be @ssH*les.
Just a little bit from my perspective... just some thoughts.
Why in the he** did I just sit in those da*n meetings and just suck that junk up?
I think I figured it out..
These were THE SAME MEN that this character had expressed respect for. He made his "deal with the devil" to do either what he thought was right, or just what he wanted to do..
These were the men he endorsed with HIS reputation. And that was all I knew.
The wolves came, and we were basically defenseless.
I came from a twig where we literally had to save one of our people from a coven of witches who were going to kill her for a human sacrifice. No kidding. We also had a girl snatched by deprogrammers. We were up all night on both issues. Getting awakened by parishioners in trouble is "par for the pastoral course." I didn't have a problem with stuff like that even thought I hated it at the time.
I think that was what kept some of us in for so long because we genuinely did love, care about, and help people and deeply believed we were doing good and we were part of the time.
I had a similar experience my interim yr. My WOW sister and I prevented a girl in the apt. next door from commiting suicide. She thanked us the next day even though she believed we were in a cult and wasn't interested in coming to a fellowship. That was '83-84. Yeah, we helped people and I believe with everything within me that she would have been at that same place in her life at that moment if we hadn't been there and according to her account, she would have gone ahead with it. So, yeah, we made a difference and helped people.
Thanks for the reminder, HC. We sure weren't in it for the money, lol! Too bad we couldn't have helped ourselves too instead of sacrificing our careers for "The Lord." We thought we were anyway, but hindsight tells me He wouldn't have minded at all if we served Him AND had a career so we really sacrificed our careers for twi. Who Moved My Cheese is a great book on that subject, by the way.
The interesting thing.. the people that I helped in the most significant way, they never committed to the mininstry- thank God.
They got what God held out for them, and moved on.
In this I am thinking of three specific incidences. One of them was a real, iron clad, undeniable miracle. And it was just for the person that was there at the time.
Come to think of it, Da Vey was never even mentioned.
I'm was non-corps flunkie. So I never really gave a damn about any supposed Corps pedigree but I did resent the haughty snootscoping by those who were Corps toward us who were busy having a life.
So you're Way Corps Nth? It's a pleasure to meet you, I'm B.A. East Carolina University 1976. Can we dispense with our labels and be real now?
I need to say something here, though, too... to look at this from the other side of things... you cannot dismiss the attitude-training the non-corps was getting either.
We ran into several situations where people had already made up their minds about corps before they ever met us. They either thought we were elitists, or they thought we should be held to a higher standard than themselves.
Granted, this was probably leftovers from some previous junky corps person. But still, I actually had someone point out an honest mistake I'd made and say, "I couldn't believe you'd do that. You're corps!!!" As if corps people weren't human, too.
Good point Highway. I believe that attitudes like you describe (I frequently thought and acted that way myself) were a result of a disconnect between what we were told (Way Corps are special, the best of the best, to be obeyed without question, etc) and what we saw (typical flawed human beings, some of whom abused their influence)
Frankly, I had little patience for a Corps grad saying "oops, I made a mistake, I'm only human" after pressuring me to take action that turned out to be harmful to me and my family. If I'm expected to obey you without question, often against my better judgement, then you d*mn well BETTER be 100% right!
ANd Yes, Mr. Hamma, I am quite proud of the fact that they kicked me out of the WC, especially in light of my whole experience. I always knew I had the respectm admiration and love of my WC brothers & sisters. I did mentor "my" younger Corps groups, "in my own image" so to speak.
I'm even more proud of the fact that I was among the very first TWI staff members fired from staff in the wake of the POP stuff. As far as I know, the got rid of John Lynn, a guy named Sal Scheccitano (sp?) then me. Regardless of what one may feel about JAL (I didn't always have the "best" experiences with him either...) He was "insubordinate" to the prevailing wind of TWI then.
He refused to bend to their will, they fired him. Sal actually confronted Rosalie R. to her face, officially with open Bible and showed her directly how SHE was "off the Word" with policies she'd instituted and decisions she'd made. She fired him on the spot. John Linder and other armed TWI officers escorted him off the grounds immediately - - didn't even allow him to tell his wife who was working right down the hall.
I, was given no reason for the termination, same as JAL, but I had Kinda recently refused to go to Corps night. I had a family at home, 3 kids a wife & a dog. They were playing tapes of VPW teaching the same stuff I had sat through LIVE while I was in residence. When confronted on why I wasn't going to Corps night. I asked,
"How do you know that? Why do you CARE?"
The confronting nazi responded with something about how I as a WC Grad and elder staff member should be setting a good example for the in residence Corps. I responded with something to the effect of,
"How's this? I as a WC Grad, HUSBAND and FATHER, by staying home can use Corps night to teach my WIFE and children the same stuff I was taught in residence. AND I can fulfill my promise to GOD, not to mention VP, to study the things I was taught and MAKE THEM MY OWN! What better day is there to do that, as a WC grad, than CORPS Night!"
The Nazi didn't like that. It wasn't too long after that that I got the boot.
So yes. I'm proud to have been fired, and kicked out of their association.
They did me a favor. It probably would have been a few more years until I finally gave up and left on my own. I was pretty committed to trying to "turn things around." I must admit I was also more than a little bit ignorant of what was really going on all aorund the country. When I came to HQ I was barely 21 and still had the high school type thinking that "everywhere" was pretty much like where I was from. I thought that the WC thatI had interacted with for a few years before coming to HQ were like "everybody else."
When I saw some bad stuff, I saw it as an anomalie. I didn't know how pervasive it was.
After being out of TWI I soon noticed that the everyday stress level I was living under there was tremendous. It even cause physical issues in my body. I used to get these "razor" bumps on my face so badly that it looked like I had a beard even after I shaved. Now that's gone. As is the excessive stress.
Here's what's interesting. When I was working there I didn't even know how much stress I was under until after I left it. AND. After and during the stress of TWO horrible divorces, all of the pain and loss involved, loss of job, etc.
My face has continued to clear up to the point where now, I don't have any razor bunmps at all. My skin has all cleared and there is no discoloration at all.
Imagine that.
My point is... THE STRESS LEVEL I EXPEREINCED JUST LIVING IN THE TWI ENVIRONMENT, BYT TRYING TO DO "RIGHT" WITHIN IT WAS FAR WORSE THAN ANYTHING ELSE I'VE EXPERIENCED.
Didn't read all the posts after the first page, but here's my 2¢...
No matter what organization you're in, whether it's a school, or your workplace, or a church, or Rotary Club - there will always be good people and there will always be at least one a$$h*le - usually more.
Add to that the fact that some people may be really nice to you and treat me like $h!t for no apparent reason. People are people. I'll even throw in a bible quote: there's nothing new under the sun. TWI hasn't cornered the market on this subject.
To say that the Way Corps, or the entire TWI organization are unique in this way gives them more credit than they are due. There are @ssholes everywhere....
and the glass is half empty... and it's cracked... and I just cut my lip.... (just kidding)...
Ya know what's really sad is that the position of the WC could have had a wonderful effect on The Body of Christ had more WC walked solely with The Father and not by the revelation of their "superiors". We met so many tender-hearted WC that on their own as leaders, could have had a tremendous impact and inspite of their leader**** and some of them did have a great impact inspite of their leaders.
It really must hurt God's heart that the great potential for helping his people went down the tubes. What a waste.....and the money wasted from good hearted believers that thought they were building loving, leaders who wanted to serve God's people for God. Funny I bet none of them ever calls the people that sponsored them for years & says thanks.
Unfortunately I am not as giving as I used to be because of this, but I am more diligent as to where I put my money reserved for God's purposes
HCW, I hadn't heard that about Sal. Good for him! I quit before RR could fire me, but I'm sure she would have. She didn't care much for people who spoke up. She told me I was "too vocal." hahahahaha
I don't know where most of my sponsors are anymore, I'm sad to say. If I did, I'd call them and say, "Thank you for believing in and supporting me. Even if the whole thing went down the crapper, I know you gave for the right reason and I'm grateful. I did the best I knew how to deserve your support, and I hope life is treating you splendidly after all these years."
Ya know what's really sad is that the position of the WC could have had a wonderful effect on The Body of Christ had more WC walked solely with The Father and not by the revelation of their "superiors".
Well, I met quite a few that actually did take that position. But it cost them. Either quit, or forced out, or thrown out, or etc. etc..
I think it would have cost them a heck of a lot more to stay in.
Everybody that thinks they could have been able to see through the deceit of TWI has to remember that as a member of the Way Corps, we were always told what to do, when to do it and were expected to follow the guidelines that our leadership set up for us. Every action on the field was scrutinized greatly and we were often ostrasized for trying to think on our own if it went against our leadership. It was only at the very end that we were able to break free of this, then our lives were immediate chaos for some time.
We only wanted to be able to help people. In the end we were manipulated much more than we could have imagined.
In my humble opinion, TWC is no different than the rest of the body of Christ and should never have been treated as such. I believe we non-titled ministers tend to put titled ministers on a pedestal, expected more out of them and looked to them when we should have been looking to Jesus. I don't think that a pastor or any minister should be treated differently. I know at one time I thought differently because of admiration.
Recently, I was talking to a full time minister (who used to be part time minister and part time manager at the rest I work at). He was celebrating himself because of how long he has been a minister and how important that is. I realized then that I had long stopped putting "The minister" on a pedestal. I told him, there is no difference between you, the full minister, and me. He responded with, he was due certain respects because of his calling. --> I tried to remind him that God has made all of the body of Christ a minister of His love and an ambassdor and that one is not more important than the other. I think I gave him indigestion!
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Ham
Yep.. good point Catcup.
If somebody thinks they are going to be able to protect people, think again. What's gonna happen to "your" people when you are forced or chased out?
Usually it is not very pleasant.
We had a limb coordinator here, and he was a pretty nice guy..
When they "found out" about him, the whole state paid, dearly.
Blood ran- almost literally.
They screamed and snarled, they cut and they chopped. What was left they ran through a meat grinder.
They "lovingly confronted" roughly nine-tenths of the followers all the way to oblivion.
What do you think is going to happen to the people YOU are responsible for?
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Ham
The "corps household" under his leadership paid the most dearly.
Anybody with ANY love or compassion had a choice- get on track with the "decade of confrontation", get on track with uncle loy, or get the hell out.
We never heard from the old limb guy again. Never heard his side of the story.
Sure "protected" us from the bad element- right.
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Ham
I remember the few brief comments I EVER heard about inside stuff from any of them- "I just don't see how we are THAT jaded. But it must be true.."
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Ham
I recall the manner they publically defamed this character. For all I know he may have had a few faults, but holy smokes.
The most scathing comments regarded his financial affairs, and his marriage.
He was not "qualified" to be any kind of leader, because.. he couldn't get his wife to tow the line regarding every ministry doctrine and mandate. They called his wife an unbeliever. Made him less of a man, somehow, and at the least, "unequally yoked".
He was accused of padding the books to get a decent salary. Looking back, he probably barely got his need met, if even that.
Of course his opinion or reply was not present or welcome.
If you're REALLY a good guy in the Corps, you don't stand a chance.
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Ham
One of the next few meetings, I remember the "beloved" branch coordinator's wife boasting how they "got rid of" the people that were bothering us.. ptooie.
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HCW
Yes. There are WC who still care about people, etc. I'm WC. 11th to be exact. I care.
They threw me out of the WC.
What does that tell you about the ones left?
Please keep in mind, or was it just not common knowledge that in one fail swoop, I think it was 1988, or maybe '89 that about 75% of all of the WC grads at the time voluntarily left TWI because LCM demanded our specific allegence to HIM.
He sent a letter to the entire WC "household" (for lack of a better word) saying that if we didn't agree to stand w/Him and the BOT that we'd be "dropped" from the Corps.
I think the number was 75% said NO. We won't stand with YOU, in a lot of different ways.
I'm thinking the majority remnant of WC that stayed were "all of the above" in all the negative complaint we've seen & heard of WC. Gave the rest of us a REALLY bad name. A minority of WC people stayed in thinking they could stand in the gap, be a force for good in all the crap that was going down, etc.
There was a time in TWI history when The Way Corps actually did exemplify the ideals the literature speaks of. I got to know or become acquainted with just about all of the people in the first 5 Corps groups through my being on staff @ HQ when they came back for an additional year of in-residency.
I don't know how public it was that the single digit WC groups were all invited to come back to HQ for an additional in residence year. A LOT of them did. They were in residence @ HQ with the 8th, 9th, 10th, & 11th and some of them rubbed off good stuff on a lot of the later year single digit Corps.
My opinion of those first four groups was that I admired them and wanted to be like most of them. By and large they were a great group of people. How many of the later groups, especially us double digit number groups were humble enough to come BACK into residence for an additional year of training - - at our own expense both in terms of time and $$$.??? How many WC do you know who would have graciously come back for MORE training? That would require admitting to one's self that, "No, I DON't know it all."
TWI also used to actually bring in some top people to teach WC seminars & classes from OUTSIDE twi. We got to observe and be taught Dale Carnegie stuff by some of the tip top people in the Carnegie organization. Bob Richards, the Olympic Champion guy from the Wheaties box, himself came and taught some public speaking stuff to us, the 11th and 13th.
As LCM rose to power in TWI, stuff like that faded away (surprise!) TWI became full of itself. "We" strted thinking our people could teach just as well as the champions who taught them.
Is it any wonder people's heads became swollen? Not that I'm excusing them, but facts are facts.
I can confidently say that, at least for the first 11 years of TWC we were taught enough Bible and exposed to enough "good stuff" to have become great leaders for God. Regardless of all of the other crap that was going on. IMO, your level of service to people was determined by what you focused on.
Not that I now, in retrospect agree with all of the training tactics they employed. Buy I'm a veteran of a high school athletics program that by todays standards would get all of the coaches jailed for child abuse. We won more than our fair share of games though.
I think some of it was a matter of perspective. If you felt they were "being Jerks" by getting us up way to early and putting us through calestentics on the circle drive. You might act "jerky" or become a jerk in return.
I came from a twig where we literally had to save one of our people from a coven of witches who were going to kill her for a human sacrifice. No kidding. We also had a girl snatched by deprogrammers. We were up all night on both issues. Getting awakened by parishioners in trouble is "par for the pastoral course." I didn't have a problem with stuff like that even thought I hated it at the time.
I'm just speculating that in the later years, especially, of WC training people responded to the training differently. In the earlier years there were more "great people" among the groups and in the WC leadership. We helped keep other folk in line, helped people maintain perspective.
After we were gone - - it seems all hell broke loose and they were basically training folk to be @ssH*les.
Just a little bit from my perspective... just some thoughts.
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Ham
One more point, and I'll be done for a while..
Why in the he** did I just sit in those da*n meetings and just suck that junk up?
I think I figured it out..
These were THE SAME MEN that this character had expressed respect for. He made his "deal with the devil" to do either what he thought was right, or just what he wanted to do..
These were the men he endorsed with HIS reputation. And that was all I knew.
The wolves came, and we were basically defenseless.
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Ham
HCW, I'd wear that as a medal of honor..
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waterbuffalo
I think that was what kept some of us in for so long because we genuinely did love, care about, and help people and deeply believed we were doing good and we were part of the time.
I had a similar experience my interim yr. My WOW sister and I prevented a girl in the apt. next door from commiting suicide. She thanked us the next day even though she believed we were in a cult and wasn't interested in coming to a fellowship. That was '83-84. Yeah, we helped people and I believe with everything within me that she would have been at that same place in her life at that moment if we hadn't been there and according to her account, she would have gone ahead with it. So, yeah, we made a difference and helped people.
Thanks for the reminder, HC. We sure weren't in it for the money, lol! Too bad we couldn't have helped ourselves too instead of sacrificing our careers for "The Lord." We thought we were anyway, but hindsight tells me He wouldn't have minded at all if we served Him AND had a career so we really sacrificed our careers for twi. Who Moved My Cheese is a great book on that subject, by the way.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
i was not wc
but yes we helped and loved people and what saddens me is that we hurt people too, all in the name of twi
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Ham
Yep Coolchef.
The interesting thing.. the people that I helped in the most significant way, they never committed to the mininstry- thank God.
They got what God held out for them, and moved on.
In this I am thinking of three specific incidences. One of them was a real, iron clad, undeniable miracle. And it was just for the person that was there at the time.
Come to think of it, Da Vey was never even mentioned.
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oenophile
I'm was non-corps flunkie. So I never really gave a damn about any supposed Corps pedigree but I did resent the haughty snootscoping by those who were Corps toward us who were busy having a life.
So you're Way Corps Nth? It's a pleasure to meet you, I'm B.A. East Carolina University 1976. Can we dispense with our labels and be real now?
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TheHighWay
I need to say something here, though, too... to look at this from the other side of things... you cannot dismiss the attitude-training the non-corps was getting either.
We ran into several situations where people had already made up their minds about corps before they ever met us. They either thought we were elitists, or they thought we should be held to a higher standard than themselves.
Granted, this was probably leftovers from some previous junky corps person. But still, I actually had someone point out an honest mistake I'd made and say, "I couldn't believe you'd do that. You're corps!!!" As if corps people weren't human, too.
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Oakspear
Good point Highway. I believe that attitudes like you describe (I frequently thought and acted that way myself) were a result of a disconnect between what we were told (Way Corps are special, the best of the best, to be obeyed without question, etc) and what we saw (typical flawed human beings, some of whom abused their influence)
Frankly, I had little patience for a Corps grad saying "oops, I made a mistake, I'm only human" after pressuring me to take action that turned out to be harmful to me and my family. If I'm expected to obey you without question, often against my better judgement, then you d*mn well BETTER be 100% right!
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HCW
Thanks WB!
ANd Yes, Mr. Hamma, I am quite proud of the fact that they kicked me out of the WC, especially in light of my whole experience. I always knew I had the respectm admiration and love of my WC brothers & sisters. I did mentor "my" younger Corps groups, "in my own image" so to speak.
I'm even more proud of the fact that I was among the very first TWI staff members fired from staff in the wake of the POP stuff. As far as I know, the got rid of John Lynn, a guy named Sal Scheccitano (sp?) then me. Regardless of what one may feel about JAL (I didn't always have the "best" experiences with him either...) He was "insubordinate" to the prevailing wind of TWI then.
He refused to bend to their will, they fired him. Sal actually confronted Rosalie R. to her face, officially with open Bible and showed her directly how SHE was "off the Word" with policies she'd instituted and decisions she'd made. She fired him on the spot. John Linder and other armed TWI officers escorted him off the grounds immediately - - didn't even allow him to tell his wife who was working right down the hall.
I, was given no reason for the termination, same as JAL, but I had Kinda recently refused to go to Corps night. I had a family at home, 3 kids a wife & a dog. They were playing tapes of VPW teaching the same stuff I had sat through LIVE while I was in residence. When confronted on why I wasn't going to Corps night. I asked,
"How do you know that? Why do you CARE?"
The confronting nazi responded with something about how I as a WC Grad and elder staff member should be setting a good example for the in residence Corps. I responded with something to the effect of,
"How's this? I as a WC Grad, HUSBAND and FATHER, by staying home can use Corps night to teach my WIFE and children the same stuff I was taught in residence. AND I can fulfill my promise to GOD, not to mention VP, to study the things I was taught and MAKE THEM MY OWN! What better day is there to do that, as a WC grad, than CORPS Night!"
The Nazi didn't like that. It wasn't too long after that that I got the boot.
So yes. I'm proud to have been fired, and kicked out of their association.
They did me a favor. It probably would have been a few more years until I finally gave up and left on my own. I was pretty committed to trying to "turn things around." I must admit I was also more than a little bit ignorant of what was really going on all aorund the country. When I came to HQ I was barely 21 and still had the high school type thinking that "everywhere" was pretty much like where I was from. I thought that the WC thatI had interacted with for a few years before coming to HQ were like "everybody else."
When I saw some bad stuff, I saw it as an anomalie. I didn't know how pervasive it was.
After being out of TWI I soon noticed that the everyday stress level I was living under there was tremendous. It even cause physical issues in my body. I used to get these "razor" bumps on my face so badly that it looked like I had a beard even after I shaved. Now that's gone. As is the excessive stress.
Here's what's interesting. When I was working there I didn't even know how much stress I was under until after I left it. AND. After and during the stress of TWO horrible divorces, all of the pain and loss involved, loss of job, etc.
My face has continued to clear up to the point where now, I don't have any razor bunmps at all. My skin has all cleared and there is no discoloration at all.
Imagine that.
My point is... THE STRESS LEVEL I EXPEREINCED JUST LIVING IN THE TWI ENVIRONMENT, BYT TRYING TO DO "RIGHT" WITHIN IT WAS FAR WORSE THAN ANYTHING ELSE I'VE EXPERIENCED.
I've experienced a lot.
Oh yeah. I'm GLAD to be out.
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Hope R.
Didn't read all the posts after the first page, but here's my 2¢...
No matter what organization you're in, whether it's a school, or your workplace, or a church, or Rotary Club - there will always be good people and there will always be at least one a$$h*le - usually more.
Add to that the fact that some people may be really nice to you and treat me like $h!t for no apparent reason. People are people. I'll even throw in a bible quote: there's nothing new under the sun. TWI hasn't cornered the market on this subject.
To say that the Way Corps, or the entire TWI organization are unique in this way gives them more credit than they are due. There are @ssholes everywhere....
and the glass is half empty... and it's cracked... and I just cut my lip.... (just kidding)...
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smitty
Well said, Hope! A true voice of reason, a suscinct cut to the chase, and a period to the end of a long sentence, Whew!
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LornaDoone
Ya know what's really sad is that the position of the WC could have had a wonderful effect on The Body of Christ had more WC walked solely with The Father and not by the revelation of their "superiors". We met so many tender-hearted WC that on their own as leaders, could have had a tremendous impact and inspite of their leader**** and some of them did have a great impact inspite of their leaders.
It really must hurt God's heart that the great potential for helping his people went down the tubes. What a waste.....and the money wasted from good hearted believers that thought they were building loving, leaders who wanted to serve God's people for God. Funny I bet none of them ever calls the people that sponsored them for years & says thanks.
Unfortunately I am not as giving as I used to be because of this, but I am more diligent as to where I put my money reserved for God's purposes
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Linda Z
HCW, I hadn't heard that about Sal. Good for him! I quit before RR could fire me, but I'm sure she would have. She didn't care much for people who spoke up. She told me I was "too vocal." hahahahaha
I don't know where most of my sponsors are anymore, I'm sad to say. If I did, I'd call them and say, "Thank you for believing in and supporting me. Even if the whole thing went down the crapper, I know you gave for the right reason and I'm grateful. I did the best I knew how to deserve your support, and I hope life is treating you splendidly after all these years."
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Ham
Well, I met quite a few that actually did take that position. But it cost them. Either quit, or forced out, or thrown out, or etc. etc..
I think it would have cost them a heck of a lot more to stay in.
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def59
They could have walked with the Father, if they had seen through their 'father in the word"
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Sweetpea
Everybody that thinks they could have been able to see through the deceit of TWI has to remember that as a member of the Way Corps, we were always told what to do, when to do it and were expected to follow the guidelines that our leadership set up for us. Every action on the field was scrutinized greatly and we were often ostrasized for trying to think on our own if it went against our leadership. It was only at the very end that we were able to break free of this, then our lives were immediate chaos for some time.
We only wanted to be able to help people. In the end we were manipulated much more than we could have imagined.
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gc
In my humble opinion, TWC is no different than the rest of the body of Christ and should never have been treated as such. I believe we non-titled ministers tend to put titled ministers on a pedestal, expected more out of them and looked to them when we should have been looking to Jesus. I don't think that a pastor or any minister should be treated differently. I know at one time I thought differently because of admiration.
Recently, I was talking to a full time minister (who used to be part time minister and part time manager at the rest I work at). He was celebrating himself because of how long he has been a minister and how important that is. I realized then that I had long stopped putting "The minister" on a pedestal. I told him, there is no difference between you, the full minister, and me. He responded with, he was due certain respects because of his calling.
--> I tried to remind him that God has made all of the body of Christ a minister of His love and an ambassdor and that one is not more important than the other. I think I gave him indigestion!
gc
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