"I for one still believe that the basics of what VPW presented (albeit EW Bullinger or whoever) is even today unmatched in most churches."
Allan,
How many churches have you actually been into to find out what it is that TWI is unmatched in? Are you sure this is not just a pre-conceived idea that you have because it has been hammered into you by TWI?
You would be surprised at just how much of the supposed "new light" that we heard in "Twig" has been taught in churches for years.
Hi Ozbirdau, glad you asked the question about what I know of other churches 'beliefs'.
Our church holds evening services which has allowed me time to visit other denominations and some I have even 'preached' in.I've been doing this for the last six years or so.
It has actually been an interest of mine to 'look and see'.
I can go into detail if you want about
Jehovah Witnesses
Catholic
Seventh Day Adventists
Apostolics
Lutheran
Latter Day Saints
and even more obscure ones like..
Iglesia ne Cristo
Apostolic Prophetic.
Our Ministry actually has adopted things like full band playing pentecostal hillsongy type songs, we have people clapping, jumping, waving thei hands in the air, lifting holy hands so it aint like we're stuck in a time warp ya know !!
So I stick with what I said in my previous post.All the best to you and your family,lovingly, Allan.
Are you really likely to recognise healthy doctrine if you hold exclusivly to teachings of men of questionable character, believing it to be truth and eschewing all other sources, friend?
Hey there Rascal. Not meaning to argue -- but those men of questionable character(which I think is too kind a word for them), taught things they gleaned from others who are of good repute, and actually did the research that was the basis for the teaching of twi.
I agree that blindly following docvic & co., and their *say-so* isn't the way to go. I also see that some of what was taught was good, and worthy of following, despite the jokers that promoted it, (who couldn't keep *little Willie* zipped up). Blind obedience to any outfit is the start on the slippery slope to Hell.
And if you are wondering -- no I do not hold exclusively to their teachings, eschewing all others. And even though I like CES, I don't hold exclusively to their beliefs either. I think we can all learn from everyone -- just like docvic did. :D-->
This is the same logic that allowed vpw to talk about having a collection of porno films so he would be able to counsel anyone and not show shock or disgust.
... which is rather difficult when you're dealing with Martindale. ... Not showing shock or disgust, that is.
Thanks for explaining Allan. Love to you and your family.
I think I might try and go to the "hillsongy" thing this weekend. There will be thousands of Christians there from many denominations. It's good to be over the fear of not hanging out with other christians. How narrow minded was that logic.
Oh and don't be 'scared' to wave your hands in the air or clap or shout out hallelujah it really is quite liberating !
Selina and I have realized what worship in music really can be.
I have been to a couple of churches and also seen folks on TV really get into the worship in music. It does look very liberating. To not care what others in the room think of you and just really baring your heart to God. I have always been too uncomfortable to do that though.
After all, aren't we just supposed to sit on a couch and sing the same sometime infantile songs over and over and over and over.......
Worship in music really is a big way to get the heart ready to hear Gods' Word.
We have had a number of people from 'pentecostal' churches hanging out with us and it took one of them to honestly say to us "your Sunday services are a bit boring" !!to make us realize that we could probably 'do the music side' better.Funny thing was,it 'lifted' the whole service'.
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ozbirdau
"I for one still believe that the basics of what VPW presented (albeit EW Bullinger or whoever) is even today unmatched in most churches."
Allan,
How many churches have you actually been into to find out what it is that TWI is unmatched in? Are you sure this is not just a pre-conceived idea that you have because it has been hammered into you by TWI?
You would be surprised at just how much of the supposed "new light" that we heard in "Twig" has been taught in churches for years.
Regards, Oz
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Allan
Hi Ozbirdau, glad you asked the question about what I know of other churches 'beliefs'.
Our church holds evening services which has allowed me time to visit other denominations and some I have even 'preached' in.I've been doing this for the last six years or so.
It has actually been an interest of mine to 'look and see'.
I can go into detail if you want about
Jehovah Witnesses
Catholic
Seventh Day Adventists
Apostolics
Lutheran
Latter Day Saints
and even more obscure ones like..
Iglesia ne Cristo
Apostolic Prophetic.
Our Ministry actually has adopted things like full band playing pentecostal hillsongy type songs, we have people clapping, jumping, waving thei hands in the air, lifting holy hands so it aint like we're stuck in a time warp ya know !!
So I stick with what I said in my previous post.All the best to you and your family,lovingly, Allan.
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dmiller
Hey there Rascal. Not meaning to argue -- but those men of questionable character (which I think is too kind a word for them),
taught things they gleaned from others who are of good repute, and actually did the research that was the basis for the teaching of twi.
I agree that blindly following docvic & co., and their *say-so* isn't the way to go. I also see that some of what was taught was good, and worthy of following, despite the jokers that promoted it, (who couldn't keep *little Willie* zipped up). Blind obedience to any outfit is the start on the slippery slope to Hell.
And if you are wondering -- no I do not hold exclusively to their teachings, eschewing all others. And even though I like CES, I don't hold exclusively to their beliefs either. I think we can all learn from everyone -- just like docvic did.
:D-->
David
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dmiller
Allan -- sorry, but I just have to ask ---
What on earth is a *HILLSONGY* song??? I play fiddle, banjo, etc. and have heard of many types of music, but never that one!!
:D-->
David
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Allan
Hi DMILLER,'Hillsong' is actually the name of a church in Australia and the name of their band.It is basically a 'worship music' ministry.
http://www.hillsong.com.au or something like that.
Ozbirdau.. we have ex-baptists, jw's, lds etc.. involved in our church so I guess theres something out there for ex-anythings..!!
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rascal
Very good points (((Dave)) and presented very diplomatically...lol thank you :-)
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CoolWaters
Mo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
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imbus
SOOOO...If I put my own finger in my ear...Would that be giving myself an "ear full?"
Fearology...The study of finger in ear. Not to be confused with Samology(ear to ear or finger to finger)
-->
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dmiller
Allan -- sounds like a *hopping* congregation there!
And thanks for the explanation.
:)-->
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dmiller
Heh heh -- I didn't want to incurr the wrath of the 14th tribe, while saying what I thought.
;)-->
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GarthP2000
... which is rather difficult when you're dealing with Martindale. ... Not showing shock or disgust, that is.
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ozbirdau
Thanks for explaining Allan. Love to you and your family.
I think I might try and go to the "hillsongy" thing this weekend. There will be thousands of Christians there from many denominations. It's good to be over the fear of not hanging out with other christians. How narrow minded was that logic.
luv Oz
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Allan
Hey Ozbirdau, hope you enjoy it, Pastor Brian Houston is one of my favorite 'preachers'.
I also admire Pastor Chris Pringle from Christian City Church.
I do not agree with all they teach but I admire their 'sincerity'.
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Allan
Oh and don't be 'scared' to wave your hands in the air or clap or shout out hallelujah it really is quite liberating !
Selina and I have realized what worship in music really can be.
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outofdafog
If you follow the logic of LCM that would be self-gratification......
:)-->
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outofdafog
I have been to a couple of churches and also seen folks on TV really get into the worship in music. It does look very liberating. To not care what others in the room think of you and just really baring your heart to God. I have always been too uncomfortable to do that though.
After all, aren't we just supposed to sit on a couch and sing the same sometime infantile songs over and over and over and over.......
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Allan
Worship in music really is a big way to get the heart ready to hear Gods' Word.
We have had a number of people from 'pentecostal' churches hanging out with us and it took one of them to honestly say to us "your Sunday services are a bit boring" !!to make us realize that we could probably 'do the music side' better.Funny thing was,it 'lifted' the whole service'.
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