When I train people on this, I usually do a few "practice" exercises. They have a list in front of them of the steps, and if they want me to I coach them through it, I do.
We will use an exercise that is made up, so that they are not personally invested and can just use the time to learn the steps.
So, Mr Ham...if you were in one of my training sessions...I'd ask you... "Which step(s) do you think you missed?" -->
He washes and folds his own because I didn`t get it done fast enough or well enoug to suit him...lol many times it would get lost in the shoulder high piles of the rest of the families laundry awaiting attention for sometimes for WEEKS!
You see, the poor guy has his own whole set of *issues* to deal with in his spouse...hee hee....for you see, in addition to being domestically *challenged*, I have the propensity to adopt every hard luck, abuse case, stray that wanders across my path...be it feline, equine, canine.....(yes even bovine)
I allow the kids all have hamsters, guinie pigs, turtles, fish, geckos....(can you tell lol, that my mother didn`t allow me to have pets as a child?)
Bless his heart he seems to take issue with the animal feed and vet bills at times rivaling the grocery and kids doctor bills some months.
He tends to be put off at the very idea of dodging horse and dog piles to get to his car each morning....poor fellow :-) and RATHER than apreciate the fact that I have effectivly eliminated the chore and he has no lawn to mow.... he is irritated beyond measure with the horses grazing the yard down to rocks....sigh no gratitude....
Lol, you are right though....I consider myself a blessed woman, in spite of our communication *issues*
rascal, I thought I was the only person who wrote letters! :)--> They helped sidestep arguments, but I never did get much in results or resolving of anything! There were times I bared my soul in those letters trying to put much love and understanding into them :shrug: I'm glad it works for you, I always thought it was a good idea! :)-->
That was one of our bc's favorite way of tortuing you. Tell you ahead of time..preferably at the beginning of a class...that he needed to speak with you.
It wouldn't have been so bad if once it a while he actually want to discuss something with you...but "speak with you" meant I'm gonna mop up the whole house with you and you're gonna beg for more so I don't throw you outta here.
But I had my share of wonderful leaders too.
Exactly, Kris...whenever someone tells me they would like to talk to me after I'm done whatever I'm doing I try to think about what did I do wrong? It comes from twi and being 'talked' to after I was done.
Yep. "We have something we REALLY need to talk about..."
To me, that kind of prelude said "brace yourself for a big one..."
Doesn't do much good, at least for me. Already have my undivided attention with the first word out of the mouth. Too much fanfare- just TALKING about it seems more effective.. just get to the point!
"Honey, I would feel a heck of a lot better if you put the toilet seat down.."
"No problem, glad you told me about it".
Usually it could be that simple.
I think a lot of times the women think they have to use extraordinary methods to get the man's attention. 99 times out of a hundred, they already have it.
Mr. Ham, I totally agree with your points. ITs like come and say it already. Otherwise my hearing is not there.
There must be a creative non threatening way of saying "I want to talk to you"! That seems to strike fear in our hearts because of the cult we spent so much time with.
I don't know.. if you are in a HABIT of talking, it should not be a big deal. Just say it.
But I can see where a lot of TWI nonsense broke down trust between me and former spouse. The former leaders were EXPERTS in treating each spouse in a very different manner. I honestly thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread hit the scene. When she told me some stuff, I found it very hard to believe.
She would say "we need to talk" when what she really meant, I now think, was "you need to believe what I am saying".
Maybe if she said that, things may have been different- maybe not- I wasn't exactly in a real good state of mind. In a lot of ways, neither was she..
I had no idea what kind of snakes we were dealing with, until long after I left.
The best way to do that is probably to approach the situation as a team and agree on the best, most non-threatening way to let each other know when a talk is needed.
One thing my kids and I did for years, is we agreed on a term to use that we all thought was non-threatening and would let the other know that a safe time to express feelings is needed.
Our term was "I need a pow-wow".
That was the signal to the other person(s) that it was time to not judge, but to listen, share whatever that person(s) feelings, and discuss. A "safe place to fall" that would never be discussed outside of the pow-wow time.
One thing my kids and I did for years, is we agreed on a term to use that we all thought was non-threatening and would let the other know that a safe time to express feelings is needed.
Our term was "I need a pow-wow".
I like that. Very much! Am thinking that will work at our group home, where some are always afraid of being *in trouble*, when it is time to talk, and won't.
"There must be a creative non threatening way of saying "I want to talk to you"! That seems to strike fear in our hearts because of the cult we spent so much time with."
Perhaps an agreed upon signal?
I dont think that Bonnie and I have any real problems in talking, we just start.
Today I called her (first, had to drive into the city (Bangor) to get a signal on my cellphone) she had just gotten up and was working over her first cup of coffee. I knew that her new work schedule has her working grave-yard shift, so I knew she would likely be sleeping in till to noon. But we had a very nice communique, we both discussed what problems we are each experiencing and how we each felt about these issues. I think that we are very 'like-minded' and open with each other. She may be visiting Maine this weekend, and she wanted my inputs to what she should pack.
Maybe it is just due to us having been together since 1980, but I dont see our communication as a problem.
think the saddest and most heart wrenching thing is that couples think they should stick it out til the kids get through high school.
I've seen far too many "displaced" kids with no home to come to during college breaks.
Wacky - that's exactly what I did but never thought of it like that. I've had this plan for years - just wanted to stick it out until the kids got out of school (I still have twins going into Soph Yr of H.S.) I'm 55 (!) and separated two years ago, when I realized it was doing more harm to the kids to stay together(verbal abuse, etc) Life has been much more calm for all of us since then - So I guess you have to weigh the negatives against the positives in a situation like that.
Out: I LOVED your e-mail quotes - I'm sending it to all my divorced girlfriends...Wearing your wedding ring on the wrong finger - too funny!
This has been a very interesting thread with great wisdom and insight.
I have been happily divorced for five years. THe ex had psych. issues (he was ordered to go to psych. eval, etc, not just my opinion). I don't think I have ever "grieved" the end of the marriage and don't feel the need to. I was married for 13 years, no kids. I just look at it as I was married, now I am not.
As a 48 year old veteran of marriage, I have decided I just don't have the attention span or energy for it. I mentioned my friend Lefty several months back on the prayer thread. After years of friendship, I thought something might be developing between us. The answer to the prayers was that nothing beyond friendship was the right thing for me and Lefty (sorry, Lefty and I). Nothing emotional, no disappointment or regrets. Just plain simultaneous realization that friends is what we both want and need now and probably for ever.
And that's just fine with me. I can't speak for Lefty, but it seems to be fine with him. He helps me when he can, but not always. I help him when I can, but not always. We both say what are limits are on helping each other and stick with them. No unknowns in expectation department, no letdowns.
There are times that I would much rather spend with other friends and he would have no interest in what we do. When I did spend too much time with him, I didn't like it. I felt caged or something. Can't explain it.
My point(s) is that sometimes a marriage should end for good reason. (Psych issues that other party refuses to be treated for and control). I also firmly believe that men and women can be good friends without sex entering the equation. If Jessica Simpson (Lefty's current computer wallpaper) wants to put on her Daisy Duke shorts and hang out with Lefty and spend the night, fine by me.
Can't think of anyone I'd want to see in Luke (?is that one of the cousins?) Duke shorts at the moment.... But if there was, I'd see if I have any libido left.
One more thing....
SOmeone made a comment about toilet seats....
I grew up with several brothers. There was no rule about toilet seats in our house while growing up. It just didn't occur to anyone that there was a default position for the toilet seat.
My oldest brother was at my house as was Lefty. Lefty had been the last person to use the commode before my brother did. Brother emerged from the bathroom with a very puzzled look on his face. I asked him what was the matter. He said (with great astonishment) "You mean Lefty doesn't have to put the toilet seat down?" I said: "Huh?" Lefty looked suddenly sheepish. I thought: "Huh?"
Brother said his wife has an ironclad rule that default position for toilet seat is down. And that seat must always return to default position. Brother's wife, a very nice woman who I consider a friend and sister, grew up in a female only household. Of course seat was always down.
Lefty grew up in a household with more men than women. I assume there was no default position at his house either, but he's heard enough discussions about it to feel sheepish.
Recommended Posts
Top Posters In This Topic
18
14
51
12
Popular Days
Jul 2
42
Jun 28
35
Jul 10
26
Jul 11
23
Top Posters In This Topic
Cindy! 18 posts
rascal 14 posts
vickles 51 posts
Ham 12 posts
Popular Days
Jul 2 2005
42 posts
Jun 28 2005
35 posts
Jul 10 2005
26 posts
Jul 11 2005
23 posts
Cindy!
When I train people on this, I usually do a few "practice" exercises. They have a list in front of them of the steps, and if they want me to I coach them through it, I do.
We will use an exercise that is made up, so that they are not personally invested and can just use the time to learn the steps.
So, Mr Ham...if you were in one of my training sessions...I'd ask you... "Which step(s) do you think you missed?"
-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Hey, I probably missed at least a half a dozen or so..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cindy!
And how do you feel about that? (kidding)
:)-->
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I wish we got that kind of thing in da "ministry" instead of all the religious hogwash..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cindy!
AMEN to that, brotha!!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Actually I feel better about it now..
Thing I am suprised is my marriage lasted as long as it did without real help.
As far as communication was concerned, I really tried- I think I just did not know how. So much for a "how to do it" organization..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cindy!
Yep, they really knew what they were doin, didn't they??? NOT!!!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
rascal
you hubby folds laundry?
you are truly a blessed woman!lol
you advice sounds wonderful.
we also write letters it seems easier and works for us too
Link to comment
Share on other sites
rascal
Folds laundry??? Oh HE LL no....lol
He washes and folds his own because I didn`t get it done fast enough or well enoug to suit him...lol many times it would get lost in the shoulder high piles of the rest of the families laundry awaiting attention for sometimes for WEEKS!
You see, the poor guy has his own whole set of *issues* to deal with in his spouse...hee hee....for you see, in addition to being domestically *challenged*, I have the propensity to adopt every hard luck, abuse case, stray that wanders across my path...be it feline, equine, canine.....(yes even bovine)
I allow the kids all have hamsters, guinie pigs, turtles, fish, geckos....(can you tell lol, that my mother didn`t allow me to have pets as a child?)
Bless his heart he seems to take issue with the animal feed and vet bills at times rivaling the grocery and kids doctor bills some months.
He tends to be put off at the very idea of dodging horse and dog piles to get to his car each morning....poor fellow :-) and RATHER than apreciate the fact that I have effectivly eliminated the chore and he has no lawn to mow.... he is irritated beyond measure with the horses grazing the yard down to rocks....sigh no gratitude....
Lol, you are right though....I consider myself a blessed woman, in spite of our communication *issues*
Link to comment
Share on other sites
gc
rascal, I thought I was the only person who wrote letters!
:)--> They helped sidestep arguments, but I never did get much in results or resolving of anything! There were times I bared my soul in those letters trying to put much love and understanding into them :shrug: I'm glad it works for you, I always thought it was a good idea! 
:)-->
gc
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zshot
Laundry is an issue!?!?!
-->
I have been doing my own laundry for over 20 years...
No one other than me should have to "deal" with my sweaty gym clothes!!
I also cook (I am no chef, but I can cook), clean, do dishes... (and when I don't feel like doing dishes, I have a dishwasher.
I also have a full time job...
In short, I'm single.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
Exactly, Kris...whenever someone tells me they would like to talk to me after I'm done whatever I'm doing I try to think about what did I do wrong? It comes from twi and being 'talked' to after I was done.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
vickles
Mr. Ham, I totally agree with your points. ITs like come and say it already. Otherwise my hearing is not there.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cindy!
Here is a web page on Active Listening skills that is a bit easier to understand:
Active Listening Skills
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Thanks Cindy!.
Pretty good stuff there.
I think for it it to be effective, the mindset can't be "what can I get out of this".
Maybe that's why I didn't actively seek this kind of instruction when I was younger- just too immature.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
There must be a creative non threatening way of saying "I want to talk to you"! That seems to strike fear in our hearts because of the cult we spent so much time with.
Suggestions anyone?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
I don't know.. if you are in a HABIT of talking, it should not be a big deal. Just say it.
But I can see where a lot of TWI nonsense broke down trust between me and former spouse. The former leaders were EXPERTS in treating each spouse in a very different manner. I honestly thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread hit the scene. When she told me some stuff, I found it very hard to believe.
She would say "we need to talk" when what she really meant, I now think, was "you need to believe what I am saying".
Maybe if she said that, things may have been different- maybe not- I wasn't exactly in a real good state of mind. In a lot of ways, neither was she..
I had no idea what kind of snakes we were dealing with, until long after I left.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Cindy!
The best way to do that is probably to approach the situation as a team and agree on the best, most non-threatening way to let each other know when a talk is needed.
One thing my kids and I did for years, is we agreed on a term to use that we all thought was non-threatening and would let the other know that a safe time to express feelings is needed.
Our term was "I need a pow-wow".
That was the signal to the other person(s) that it was time to not judge, but to listen, share whatever that person(s) feelings, and discuss. A "safe place to fall" that would never be discussed outside of the pow-wow time.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
dmiller
I like that. Very much! Am thinking that will work at our group home, where some are always afraid of being *in trouble*, when it is time to talk, and won't.
Thanks!!
David
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Galen
krysilis:
"There must be a creative non threatening way of saying "I want to talk to you"! That seems to strike fear in our hearts because of the cult we spent so much time with."
Perhaps an agreed upon signal?
I dont think that Bonnie and I have any real problems in talking, we just start.
Today I called her (first, had to drive into the city (Bangor) to get a signal on my cellphone) she had just gotten up and was working over her first cup of coffee. I knew that her new work schedule has her working grave-yard shift, so I knew she would likely be sleeping in till to noon. But we had a very nice communique, we both discussed what problems we are each experiencing and how we each felt about these issues. I think that we are very 'like-minded' and open with each other. She may be visiting Maine this weekend, and she wanted my inputs to what she should pack.
Maybe it is just due to us having been together since 1980, but I dont see our communication as a problem.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
I got these in my e-mail. I thought they were hilarious:
You have two choices in life:
you can stay single and be miserable,
or get married and wish you were dead.
At a cocktail party, one woman said to another,
"Aren't you wearing your wedding ring on the wrong finger?"
"Yes, I am. I married the wrong man."
A lady inserted an ad in the classifieds:
"Husband Wanted"
Next day she received a hundred letters.
They all said the same thing:
"You can have mine."
When a woman steals your husband,
there is no better revenge than to let her keep him.
A woman is incomplete until she is married. Then she is finished.
little boy asked his father,
"Daddy, how much does it cost to get married?"
Father replied, "I don't know, son, I'm still paying."
A young son asked,
Is it true, Dad, that in some parts of Africa
a man doesn't know his wife until he marries her?"
Dad replied, "That happens in every country, son."
Then there was a woman who said,
"I never knew what real happiness was until I got married,
and by then, it was too late."
Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence.
If you want your spouse to listen and pay strict attention to every word you
say
-- talk in your sleep.
Just think, if it wasn't for marriage, men would go through life
thinking they had no faults at all.
First woman says, "My husband's an angel!"
Second woman remarks, "You're lucky. Mine's still alive."
A Woman's Prayer
Dear Lord, I pray for Wisdom, to understand a man , to love and to forgive him, and for Patience, for his moods. Because, Lord, if
I pray for Strength, I'll just beat him to death.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
Funny, but true. Really. Give it twenty, twenty five years or so..
She is not the same gal you married, or the one you thought you did. I think that actually can be kind of fun!
Who says marriage is supposed to be boring..
Link to comment
Share on other sites
marlene aka bunnie
Wacky - that's exactly what I did but never thought of it like that. I've had this plan for years - just wanted to stick it out until the kids got out of school (I still have twins going into Soph Yr of H.S.) I'm 55 (!) and separated two years ago, when I realized it was doing more harm to the kids to stay together(verbal abuse, etc) Life has been much more calm for all of us since then - So I guess you have to weigh the negatives against the positives in a situation like that.
Out: I LOVED your e-mail quotes - I'm sending it to all my divorced girlfriends...Wearing your wedding ring on the wrong finger - too funny!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Scout Finch
This has been a very interesting thread with great wisdom and insight.
I have been happily divorced for five years. THe ex had psych. issues (he was ordered to go to psych. eval, etc, not just my opinion). I don't think I have ever "grieved" the end of the marriage and don't feel the need to. I was married for 13 years, no kids. I just look at it as I was married, now I am not.
As a 48 year old veteran of marriage, I have decided I just don't have the attention span or energy for it. I mentioned my friend Lefty several months back on the prayer thread. After years of friendship, I thought something might be developing between us. The answer to the prayers was that nothing beyond friendship was the right thing for me and Lefty (sorry, Lefty and I). Nothing emotional, no disappointment or regrets. Just plain simultaneous realization that friends is what we both want and need now and probably for ever.
And that's just fine with me. I can't speak for Lefty, but it seems to be fine with him. He helps me when he can, but not always. I help him when I can, but not always. We both say what are limits are on helping each other and stick with them. No unknowns in expectation department, no letdowns.
There are times that I would much rather spend with other friends and he would have no interest in what we do. When I did spend too much time with him, I didn't like it. I felt caged or something. Can't explain it.
My point(s) is that sometimes a marriage should end for good reason. (Psych issues that other party refuses to be treated for and control). I also firmly believe that men and women can be good friends without sex entering the equation. If Jessica Simpson (Lefty's current computer wallpaper) wants to put on her Daisy Duke shorts and hang out with Lefty and spend the night, fine by me.
Can't think of anyone I'd want to see in Luke (?is that one of the cousins?) Duke shorts at the moment.... But if there was, I'd see if I have any libido left.
One more thing....
SOmeone made a comment about toilet seats....
I grew up with several brothers. There was no rule about toilet seats in our house while growing up. It just didn't occur to anyone that there was a default position for the toilet seat.
My oldest brother was at my house as was Lefty. Lefty had been the last person to use the commode before my brother did. Brother emerged from the bathroom with a very puzzled look on his face. I asked him what was the matter. He said (with great astonishment) "You mean Lefty doesn't have to put the toilet seat down?" I said: "Huh?" Lefty looked suddenly sheepish. I thought: "Huh?"
Brother said his wife has an ironclad rule that default position for toilet seat is down. And that seat must always return to default position. Brother's wife, a very nice woman who I consider a friend and sister, grew up in a female only household. Of course seat was always down.
Lefty grew up in a household with more men than women. I assume there was no default position at his house either, but he's heard enough discussions about it to feel sheepish.
It's all about perspective I guess.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.