Well, good morning everyone!!! I finally got back to this thread!!! Whoooooosh!!!!!
OK...I figured out (it wasn't hard) the "gossip" here...my prayers to you both and your situations.
I think you are ALL RIGHT!!!!!!
I've been married, divorced, dated, yada yada yada.
I am 50 now...and although I get lonely at times, and sometimes alot...
...God would have to shine a spotlight on the guy and strike the chorus for me to ever date/marry/live in again.
Perhaps I'm too independent, or perhaps I have an ideal life. The quality of my life is priceless...
The expectations of men is that I will stop living my life, turn to them and conform to what they need me to do/be, yada yada.
I'm not so sure I am willing anymore. I'm not so sure the returns are worth it...
And, being burned more times than the average person, I'm not willing to go for round 9!!!
I love my house, my job...I love where I live...I love all my hobbies...I get enough positive feedback to keep me going...
I know very few women that are happy and fulfilled in their marriage. Not to say there aren't any...but when you get them vulnerable to their core many wouldn't do it all over again.
I think the saddest and most heart wrenching thing is that couples think they should stick it out til the kids get through high school.
I've seen far too many "displaced" kids with no home to come to during college breaks.
It really gets my goat.
These kids become lost...There isn't the bedroom they had growing up to revisit when the world turns their lives topsy turvy.
My parents stuck it out...and altho they really shouldn't have, I'm glad they did. When my life gets tossed and turned, I go visit my family home to replenish.
I couldn't imagine not having that.
Perhaps I'm too picky, perhaps I'm too smart...
My last boyfriend was 14 years younger than I...
that was fun :)--> but I'm starting to nestle in, and try to prepare for my retirement and the next phase of my life.
btw...I know plenty of over 50 men who leave their wives!!! Sometimes it's mid-life, sometimes it's the newly found independence of their wives after the kids have left the nest.
Wacky, you know I am nuts about you....but I have to say that my spouse and I would strongly disagree with your statement about not waiting for the kids to grow up to divorce ....
We are looking at this from the pov of children who grew up without the benefit of our fathers in the home.....
It was a difficult, heartbreaking child/teen hood.... we both suffered deeply, from the lack of nurture and guidance .... we didn`t have the love or protection that a child should be entitled to.... We endured a very harsh life....real privation many times...due solely to a parent who selfishly decided that their own *fun* was more important than the good of the entire family....
(HELL yeah it`d be more fun to tomcat around with pretty girl friends or drink yourself stupid every night, then to come home and shoulder your responsibilities)
Our mothers were consumed with resentment and frustration to the point of being nearly incapacitated, with anger at being left holding the bag....(and who wouldn`t be I ask ya ...... stuck raising 6 and 4 kids that the Dad`s now were too busy with their new girl friends or drinking/gambling buddies to care about, these guys who were out haveing the time of their lives partying, running all over the world having fun and living great adventures?)
But hey, they had to do what made THEM happy at the time...(or so my father told me) right??
We both feel the loss keenly enough to do whatEVER it takes to provide our children with the love, support and daily interaction of both parents untill they are adults themselves (and yes that includes treating each other with respect even the times that we intensly dislike what the other does).
We both feel that they are young for a very short time, and that in doing our best for them now, it will have a positive impact for the rest of their lives.
It is this alone that has kept us together through the tough times...
`S funny though, we weather the tough times because of our conviction that it is vital to the kiddoes....and inevitably get stronger, mature, learn to take better care of each other.....even learning to like each other lol.....none of which would happen if we had split evrey time that we decided we were miserable.
Again, I am not speaking of abusive situations here..... that is an entirely different scenario.
Just one reason (and I think a worthey one) that some of us choose to suck it up and wait untill 50 something to indulge in our personal whims.
Interesting how perspectives differ, isn't it. I love what you said rascal. What I saw in it is how you and your hubby have been blessed by proactively deciding to own and do your responsibilities. In this context as parents. I was thinking as I read your last post, "Isn't that what parenting is about?
Really cool stuff.
I've felt the same as the funster too. Maybe I'm too picky, maybe I'm too independant, maybe I'm just not willing to "lose myself" in a relationship with a woman? Etc. I've thought about the spotlight, angels singing in chorus, etc. But unfortunately and to my chagrin, its different for men in our society. By definition we lose less and gain a wife who gives up to join our life.
I don't want to do that to a woman. I want to be able to come to some willing compromise. I want a woman whom I would thing is worth whatever I have to give to be with her - - therefore I work to make myself worth whatever, so she would want to be with me. I also would want someone, who on her own, without me is was willing as I to work to make US work.
I'd want to be an US that is more and better than "you & me." Unfortunately most folks don't achieve that. I haven't - - in two marriages.
Nearing that 50 mark. There is something about 50 that makes me feel that in at least some ways life should "level" out and be heading "down hill." Not in terms of health but in terms of the striving, strife type stuff. So I think its easy to justify and jettison a lot of stuff to get there.
Could it be that what you jettison has a direct link to the individuals, character?
The mere mention of leaving children "stranded" during their formative adulthood years rakes me over the coals. I had "home" to come home to for many many years after leaving the nest. My oldest leaves for college in a matter of weeks. I couldn't imagine not being "home" for her.
I see my six years of college like an apprenticeship for adulthood and plan on managing my daughter's as such.
Interesting stuff, keep postin folks. I for one am diggin it.
What mydarlinghusband is saying is that in a healthy relationship that is honest, you never, ever, ever have to lose who you are.
If you have found someone who is "in tune" with you... you do not have to play games.
Whatever you want...they want ... maybe even more! Whatever they want...you want....maybe even more!!!
I have been with those who wanted me to be their mother. It was sickening. They wanted me to like who they liked and despise who they despised...without any valid reason that applied to me. And when you break up....oh...forget it....you can agree to be mature...they will call or im everyone they can to trash you. So childish.
But childishness is not what a healthy relationship is about. If one is making all the effort, taking all the pictures on a vacation (like I used to), and only contributing when they know it won't hurt them...is it worth it?
I got rid of those influences.
HCW....it's about being with someone who makes your life "SING"!!!!
I have heard from two good friends (also gs'rs) who moved on....one a female....one a male...(both have divorces that are final from previous spouses)...BOTH have found someone who makes their life SING!!!!
Isn't THAT what it's about???
Do you know that I've heard of a person who told someone (a very well known extwi name) that if they do not go back to their spouse, they might as well put a GUN to their head and PULL THE TRIGGER? (sick)
That may depend on what your definition of sing is. I don't mean to be difficult, but I was told once that it is the rocks in the brook which make it sing (actually bubble in the way that we all like to listen to)
I'm going to use the !!'s for an example (without their permission, so they are free to sue me).
These guys, Cindy! and Steve! probably have just as much work to do to keep things sweet and tender as any other couple does...but the difference is.....they think it's worth it. So they do the discussing thing...and the respecting thing...and the making the other happy thing...and forgetting about themselves thing...because they want to.
I think that too often that's too much work for some people because they don't seem to want to do it. Their spouse isn't good enough? They aren't good enough? It's too expensive to live here....more excuses than China has tea leaves.
Nothing in life comes easy if it's worth anything. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. If you're just sitting there waiting... it will never get any better so if that's all you're gonna do...get to the lawyer sooner rather than later because it will cost you less (especially if you are in a community property State.)
I anticipate barbs and arrows of disgust and disagreement, so maybe this need to go to the politics forum. tee hee
Well Krys, it somehow may end up in the politic section for all we have been through with this fascinating thread....lol
HCW I think a great relationship is when you can have the we and have the individuality. If its just we that is when one loses themself in the we. A good mate will have the we and me in there.
I think this is whats happening when the couple gets older. The woman realizes, hey there is a me somewhere, I need to find it.
My relationship with bob is such a wonderful we and me. I can do anything I want as with him with me. There is no jealousy because there is no reason for there to be. We look at it as if someone does something then that is really their problem not mine. They receive the consequences of it. There has to be trust in a relationship or it will never work.
Friendship and trust is number one to keep a relationship. If your partner is not a friend then what is that partner to you?
This thread is awesome. Lord knows I am NOT into quoting scripture here at gspot......so how about I just paraphrase the Byrds instead??
To everything there is a season.......turn, turn, turn.......(see Ecclesiastes for the correct verbage.)
Vickles......maybe the 50s and divorce thing, is just because, for some people, in their lives at that time........IT IS THE SEASON for reevaluation......they weigh their lives in the balances and then make their own decisions. Decisions that only THEY CAN MAKE based on the deep things of the heart that only they know?
Now that I am approaching 50......the only thing I really know for sure is that I have finally decided I am worthy to be happy, I deserve to be happy.......and I am not going to stop before I AM HAPPY. Okay...that MAY BE easier for me to say than many of you, I am NOT married, and I have no children.
There are as many valid and invalid opinions as there are people in the world. This thread sure did give us a glimpse into both sides of "this" universe. Thank you Vickles...it was worth the read ;)-->
Loretta Lynn (the country star) was once asked if her marriage (since she was a such a huge name in the business), was still 50/50, where they each shared taskes.
Without batting an eye she told the reporter, that her marriage had never been 50/50. It had always been 100/100. And I think she has a valid point. She said that if either side of the marriage weren't committed to 100% effort, it wouldn't work.
Why people find reasons to divorce and leave each other is getting more common, and being justified as well.
Maybe people (these days -- myself included) don't give the 100%,
Lol (((dmiller))) I was funning with you too....I have been caught so many times in embarASSing positions....
Everybody needing go potty and no bathroom in sight? Everyone sneaks behind a tree....when *I* go, lol a troop of hikers show up from the OTHER direction laughing and pointing....
Skinny dipped for an hour at our remote cabin one time....only to spot an old man (who wasn`t supposed to be at the lake that weekend on his porch with th ole binocs.....seems like every time I have bared my hiney, I get *caught* one way or another...hee hee
stuff like that....meaning that this stuff happened SO many times...lol my *believing* is to the point that it being caught and shamed is inevitable...
Please don`t say mea culpa, I didn`t mean to sound like I was critisizing you....just being silly :-)
Krys...yep, the stones in a brook can make it sing...but too many stones make a dam.
But yes...Steve and I agreed to work TOGETHER on our marriage cuz we want a sweet one that we can both treasure. But it does take two!!!
quote:
Now that I am approaching 50......the only thing I really know for sure is that I have finally decided I am worthy to be happy, I deserve to be happy.......and I am not going to stop before I AM HAPPY.
I think that has A LOT to do with it, Radar.
If you battle for years for happiness...you sure deserve to find it however you have to.(especially if you realize that the person who is/was supposed to be fighting by your side...is absent.)
I've always loved that Loretta Lynn quote...so true.
The examples I gave above from my first marriage are the very same type of examples I've heard friends give of their exes (both male and female).
On emotionial issuses, women tend to be more complex then men.
Also, when a man asks a woman, "Whats wrong"? and keeps getting the same answer, "nothing" or ask him, why do you think something is wrong. Eventually, the man will stop asking.
Also, it is important to remember, that communication envolves listening as well as talking.
I have to agree with Zshot and Oak. Vickles, it is just the way we men are hardwired. We can tell whensomething is upsetting you women what we are not so good at is knowing what is bothering you. So my question is why do women insist on playing the game of "guess why I am bothered today." It is not that we don't want to know, we would love to know because first we actually do care about you very much and secondly, so we can avoid the emotional mine field but you have to provide us with information in the form of words, pictures, graphs, spreadsheets et.al. Otherwise, we don't get it. Get it? Why not make it easy on yourselves and us by opening your mouth and speaking? Duh?
I will allow that perhaps sometimes (and I think that this is the case more often than not) women really don't know themselves what is bothering them. If this is the case, my advice as a knuckle dragging, neanderthal male is that couples need to have an emotional safe space to which they may retreat to gain understanding. This space would be free of judgment, egotism but a place of honesty and concern that takes into account our differences as men and women. The goal (see my linear male mind at work) of this exercise (oops, there it is again) would be really trying to understand each others point of view without jumping to conclusions about the other person.
A good preface to any sensitive emotional issue would be as follows: "I feel (fill in the blank with appropriate emotion) and I need (fill in blank with appropriate need).
with friends when the relationship get weird or difficult I take a break and come back to it when things have calmed down or we can talk better.
space. I do not know how much is available when your married, between money , jobs kids cars pets house all that the married life brings.
I mean if your partner gets sick your suppose to be available to pick up the slack and NOT complain.. that is love.
after awhile I think I would complain.. In relationships that are comminted your suppose to rise to the occasion, and what if it is during a time your need space?
sounds like alot of work..
as far as children now that mine are grown I just can NOT never ever imagine life without these people that I have know since they didnt even know how to burp!
now with the new grands life seems so much more worth living.
I do not have alot of money, or a big career, or home. i invested my life work into them and I like the reWARDS.
As I age I see life go on andit keeps my own exciting and new.
I will say I see many sad people who have never had children. It must be odd , you know in this culture to be middle age and never had children I can relate because when I was young and everyone was married I felt left out alot not part of the life many where living.
but we need to bloom where planted and life is all about how we look at our own situation. I think aging for women is more difficult for women, if a man has money he can get a young new wife, no so easy for a woman. esp. if she has children.
I gave alot to raise my kids, but I think it was a sound investment I have single friends with no children and they are sad some in their sixties with dead or sick parents and of course nieces and nephews.
I know how this sounds because I am not married and many pity me for it and must think I live a half of a life. but I do not feel that way . so they must get involved in a carreer or something to dedicate all your energy in that has rewards. I do not think some marriages are all that fabulous it is just like all you have invested in and you stay, like children. we go with what we know in life mostly.
but the bible says it all is not worth it and I do believe it is true.
the only true happy days and peace comes from God and knowing we will reach a life that is eternal without all these confusing emotions.
Every marriage needs that "soft place to land". A place in the marriage where it is safe...no judgements, no past being thrown in ones' face, no fault-finding. Where active listening is employed so that each person KNOWS they are heard, understood, and cared about.
Every marriage needs that "soft place to land". A place in the marriage where it is safe...no judgements, no past being thrown in ones' face, no fault-finding. Where active listening is employed so that each person KNOWS they are heard, understood, and cared about.
I agree. Too bad that TWI(2,anyway) tried very hard to make sure believer marriages did not have this soft place to land. Iron had to sharpen iron, perfection in everything was the standard, and all that, plus there was the weekly schedule for leadershi+ to scrutinize, to see if you were sceduling in your sex time.
I can see how many marriages, coming out of that, would be wobbly and close to collapse.
When we left, we were relieved of lots of pressure, because living the TWI way was not natural to us, so we gave each other needed breaks. But if one of us had loved that previous lifestyle(it would appeal to someone who wanted to control their spouse)it never would have worked.
There's defnitely something to the "soft place to fall" needs in a family. I think that's where tolerance for other beliefs comes into play as well. There has to be a true feeling of unconditional love.
There's a joke going around about best friends and one of the lines is something like:
quote:
A good friend will bail you out of jail. A best friend will be sitting next to you in the cell.
I used to have a lot of girlfriends like this pre-TWI. Now I have a couple that I've reconnected with. We picked up right where we left off and it's been wonderful and very healing.
IMO, a husband should be like this too. I should know that no matter what I do, no matter how stupid it is, he will always help me hide the bodies. :D--> I should be able to tell him anything and know that it won't change his love for me. (It doesn't mean that he always agrees with or condones it)
My ex was scared to death I was going to get us kicked out of TWI. He was always looking for devil spirits and causes in everything that went wrong in our lives and, God forbid, in my life alone. I was the weakness bringing down his strength. He refused to acknowledge that I had anything to contribute to the relationship. I became stupid, rebellious, slothful and just plain weak spiritually in his eyes.
When the focus or standards for the relationship are based on someone else's standards or approval from others, the love and relationship/friendship aspects of the marriage are destroyed.
Trust and unconditional love - blown out of the water. In TWI or out of TWI - facing judgement in the home constantly whether it's discussed or not, destroys a relationship.
Ok guys that is well and good and it sounds really nice. But when a woman wants to tell how she feels a lot of times the guys feel like they are being confronted. And walk away. They don't like to share their feelings.
I totally agree that you have to have a safe place to share.
Bob and I go to counseling once a month because of my special needs kids and it is there that a lot of times is very safe for us to share. Then there is the third person that is there to help us along if needed.
It is very hard for bob to share is feelings as he has been hurt by many people all through his life. He has learned to trust me and is able to share more than he ever has been able to. But I think in general I have found many men like this.
If there is a problem most men walk away to not deal with it.
The safe place I have found is a place he can't just walk away and we have had some really heart to heart honest talks in therapy.
Ok guys that is well and good and it sounds really nice. But when a woman wants to tell how she feels a lot of times the guys feel like they are being confronted.
And many times they are, especially if the woman is someone who is likely to use the word "confront." (I'm not picking on you, Vickles, but TWI people and probably many other religious people "confront" evil and error.) If a guy doesn't feel like he's being "confronted," he may feel like he's being bitched at, and again, many times he is.
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Wacky Funster
Well, good morning everyone!!! I finally got back to this thread!!! Whoooooosh!!!!!
OK...I figured out (it wasn't hard) the "gossip" here...my prayers to you both and your situations.
I think you are ALL RIGHT!!!!!!
I've been married, divorced, dated, yada yada yada.
I am 50 now...and although I get lonely at times, and sometimes alot...
...God would have to shine a spotlight on the guy and strike the chorus for me to ever date/marry/live in again.
Perhaps I'm too independent, or perhaps I have an ideal life. The quality of my life is priceless...
The expectations of men is that I will stop living my life, turn to them and conform to what they need me to do/be, yada yada.
I'm not so sure I am willing anymore. I'm not so sure the returns are worth it...
And, being burned more times than the average person, I'm not willing to go for round 9!!!
I love my house, my job...I love where I live...I love all my hobbies...I get enough positive feedback to keep me going...
I know very few women that are happy and fulfilled in their marriage. Not to say there aren't any...but when you get them vulnerable to their core many wouldn't do it all over again.
I think the saddest and most heart wrenching thing is that couples think they should stick it out til the kids get through high school.
I've seen far too many "displaced" kids with no home to come to during college breaks.
It really gets my goat.
These kids become lost...There isn't the bedroom they had growing up to revisit when the world turns their lives topsy turvy.
My parents stuck it out...and altho they really shouldn't have, I'm glad they did. When my life gets tossed and turned, I go visit my family home to replenish.
I couldn't imagine not having that.
Perhaps I'm too picky, perhaps I'm too smart...
My last boyfriend was 14 years younger than I...
that was fun
:)--> but I'm starting to nestle in, and try to prepare for my retirement and the next phase of my life.
btw...I know plenty of over 50 men who leave their wives!!! Sometimes it's mid-life, sometimes it's the newly found independence of their wives after the kids have left the nest.
Just some of my thoughts this morning...
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rascal
Wacky, you know I am nuts about you....but I have to say that my spouse and I would strongly disagree with your statement about not waiting for the kids to grow up to divorce ....
We are looking at this from the pov of children who grew up without the benefit of our fathers in the home.....
It was a difficult, heartbreaking child/teen hood.... we both suffered deeply, from the lack of nurture and guidance .... we didn`t have the love or protection that a child should be entitled to.... We endured a very harsh life....real privation many times...due solely to a parent who selfishly decided that their own *fun* was more important than the good of the entire family....
(HELL yeah it`d be more fun to tomcat around with pretty girl friends or drink yourself stupid every night, then to come home and shoulder your responsibilities)
Our mothers were consumed with resentment and frustration to the point of being nearly incapacitated, with anger at being left holding the bag....(and who wouldn`t be I ask ya ...... stuck raising 6 and 4 kids that the Dad`s now were too busy with their new girl friends or drinking/gambling buddies to care about, these guys who were out haveing the time of their lives partying, running all over the world having fun and living great adventures?)
But hey, they had to do what made THEM happy at the time...(or so my father told me) right??
We both feel the loss keenly enough to do whatEVER it takes to provide our children with the love, support and daily interaction of both parents untill they are adults themselves (and yes that includes treating each other with respect even the times that we intensly dislike what the other does).
We both feel that they are young for a very short time, and that in doing our best for them now, it will have a positive impact for the rest of their lives.
It is this alone that has kept us together through the tough times...
`S funny though, we weather the tough times because of our conviction that it is vital to the kiddoes....and inevitably get stronger, mature, learn to take better care of each other.....even learning to like each other lol.....none of which would happen if we had split evrey time that we decided we were miserable.
Again, I am not speaking of abusive situations here..... that is an entirely different scenario.
Just one reason (and I think a worthey one) that some of us choose to suck it up and wait untill 50 something to indulge in our personal whims.
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rascal
DMiller, trust me in this........it was recieve first and THEN believe ....sigh
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HCW
Interesting how perspectives differ, isn't it. I love what you said rascal. What I saw in it is how you and your hubby have been blessed by proactively deciding to own and do your responsibilities. In this context as parents. I was thinking as I read your last post, "Isn't that what parenting is about?
Really cool stuff.
I've felt the same as the funster too. Maybe I'm too picky, maybe I'm too independant, maybe I'm just not willing to "lose myself" in a relationship with a woman? Etc. I've thought about the spotlight, angels singing in chorus, etc. But unfortunately and to my chagrin, its different for men in our society. By definition we lose less and gain a wife who gives up to join our life.
I don't want to do that to a woman. I want to be able to come to some willing compromise. I want a woman whom I would thing is worth whatever I have to give to be with her - - therefore I work to make myself worth whatever, so she would want to be with me. I also would want someone, who on her own, without me is was willing as I to work to make US work.
I'd want to be an US that is more and better than "you & me." Unfortunately most folks don't achieve that. I haven't - - in two marriages.
Nearing that 50 mark. There is something about 50 that makes me feel that in at least some ways life should "level" out and be heading "down hill." Not in terms of health but in terms of the striving, strife type stuff. So I think its easy to justify and jettison a lot of stuff to get there.
Could it be that what you jettison has a direct link to the individuals, character?
The mere mention of leaving children "stranded" during their formative adulthood years rakes me over the coals. I had "home" to come home to for many many years after leaving the nest. My oldest leaves for college in a matter of weeks. I couldn't imagine not being "home" for her.
I see my six years of college like an apprenticeship for adulthood and plan on managing my daughter's as such.
Interesting stuff, keep postin folks. I for one am diggin it.
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Steve!
I guess Cindy! and I are two of the extremely lucky ones.
Together we amount to way more than just the sum of 2 individuals.
Life is so much sweeter when you do find "the one", your soulmate. I can't even begin to describe it.
And I'm not losing one iota of who I am - as a matter of fact, I'm really starting to become everything I've always wanted to be, and so is Cindy!.
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Cindy!
What mydarlinghusband is saying is that in a healthy relationship that is honest, you never, ever, ever have to lose who you are.
If you have found someone who is "in tune" with you... you do not have to play games.
Whatever you want...they want ... maybe even more! Whatever they want...you want....maybe even more!!!
I have been with those who wanted me to be their mother. It was sickening. They wanted me to like who they liked and despise who they despised...without any valid reason that applied to me. And when you break up....oh...forget it....you can agree to be mature...they will call or im everyone they can to trash you. So childish.
But childishness is not what a healthy relationship is about. If one is making all the effort, taking all the pictures on a vacation (like I used to), and only contributing when they know it won't hurt them...is it worth it?
I got rid of those influences.
HCW....it's about being with someone who makes your life "SING"!!!!
I have heard from two good friends (also gs'rs) who moved on....one a female....one a male...(both have divorces that are final from previous spouses)...BOTH have found someone who makes their life SING!!!!
Isn't THAT what it's about???
Do you know that I've heard of a person who told someone (a very well known extwi name) that if they do not go back to their spouse, they might as well put a GUN to their head and PULL THE TRIGGER? (sick)
If your life does not *SING* ... why bother???
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krys
That may depend on what your definition of sing is. I don't mean to be difficult, but I was told once that it is the rocks in the brook which make it sing (actually bubble in the way that we all like to listen to)
I'm going to use the !!'s for an example (without their permission, so they are free to sue me).
These guys, Cindy! and Steve! probably have just as much work to do to keep things sweet and tender as any other couple does...but the difference is.....they think it's worth it. So they do the discussing thing...and the respecting thing...and the making the other happy thing...and forgetting about themselves thing...because they want to.
I think that too often that's too much work for some people because they don't seem to want to do it. Their spouse isn't good enough? They aren't good enough? It's too expensive to live here....more excuses than China has tea leaves.
Nothing in life comes easy if it's worth anything. Nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada. If you're just sitting there waiting... it will never get any better so if that's all you're gonna do...get to the lawyer sooner rather than later because it will cost you less (especially if you are in a community property State.)
I anticipate barbs and arrows of disgust and disagreement, so maybe this need to go to the politics forum. tee hee
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vickles
Well Krys, it somehow may end up in the politic section for all we have been through with this fascinating thread....lol
HCW I think a great relationship is when you can have the we and have the individuality. If its just we that is when one loses themself in the we. A good mate will have the we and me in there.
I think this is whats happening when the couple gets older. The woman realizes, hey there is a me somewhere, I need to find it.
My relationship with bob is such a wonderful we and me. I can do anything I want as with him with me. There is no jealousy because there is no reason for there to be. We look at it as if someone does something then that is really their problem not mine. They receive the consequences of it. There has to be trust in a relationship or it will never work.
Friendship and trust is number one to keep a relationship. If your partner is not a friend then what is that partner to you?
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Radar OReilly
This thread is awesome. Lord knows I am NOT into quoting scripture here at gspot......so how about I just paraphrase the Byrds instead??
To everything there is a season.......turn, turn, turn.......(see Ecclesiastes for the correct verbage.)
Vickles......maybe the 50s and divorce thing, is just because, for some people, in their lives at that time........IT IS THE SEASON for reevaluation......they weigh their lives in the balances and then make their own decisions. Decisions that only THEY CAN MAKE based on the deep things of the heart that only they know?
Now that I am approaching 50......the only thing I really know for sure is that I have finally decided I am worthy to be happy, I deserve to be happy.......and I am not going to stop before I AM HAPPY. Okay...that MAY BE easier for me to say than many of you, I am NOT married, and I have no children.
There are as many valid and invalid opinions as there are people in the world. This thread sure did give us a glimpse into both sides of "this" universe. Thank you Vickles...it was worth the read
;)-->
ror
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dmiller
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea culpa.
(Beating breast thrice with clenched fist.)
:(-->
Rascal -- I was being facetious, nothing more.
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dmiller
Loretta Lynn (the country star) was once asked if her marriage (since she was a such a huge name in the business), was still 50/50, where they each shared taskes.
Without batting an eye she told the reporter, that her marriage had never been 50/50. It had always been 100/100. And I think she has a valid point. She said that if either side of the marriage weren't committed to 100% effort, it wouldn't work.
Why people find reasons to divorce and leave each other is getting more common, and being justified as well.
Maybe people (these days -- myself included) don't give the 100%,
and I am including men, as well as women.
It takes two to tango.
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vickles
Here is an interesting article I read:
http://women.msn.com/886301.armx?gt1=6686
Its about women suspecting their husbands of an affair but what I saw in it was interesting to what we were talking about.
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rascal
Lol (((dmiller))) I was funning with you too....I have been caught so many times in embarASSing positions....
Everybody needing go potty and no bathroom in sight? Everyone sneaks behind a tree....when *I* go, lol a troop of hikers show up from the OTHER direction laughing and pointing....
Skinny dipped for an hour at our remote cabin one time....only to spot an old man (who wasn`t supposed to be at the lake that weekend on his porch with th ole binocs.....seems like every time I have bared my hiney, I get *caught* one way or another...hee hee
stuff like that....meaning that this stuff happened SO many times...lol my *believing* is to the point that it being caught and shamed is inevitable...
Please don`t say mea culpa, I didn`t mean to sound like I was critisizing you....just being silly :-)
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Cindy!
Krys...yep, the stones in a brook can make it sing...but too many stones make a dam.
But yes...Steve and I agreed to work TOGETHER on our marriage cuz we want a sweet one that we can both treasure. But it does take two!!!
I think that has A LOT to do with it, Radar.
If you battle for years for happiness...you sure deserve to find it however you have to.(especially if you realize that the person who is/was supposed to be fighting by your side...is absent.)
I've always loved that Loretta Lynn quote...so true.
The examples I gave above from my first marriage are the very same type of examples I've heard friends give of their exes (both male and female).
Sad that it's so typical.
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vickles
I think it was Oak that brought this up. He said something about how men have to be told whats bothering a woman because they don't always see it.
I'm wondering why if a man loves a woman so much why doesn't he look for it? I mean women see the signs so easily in men.
I know it sounds like a weird question but I honestly want to know...its very frustrating.
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Zshot
Vickles,
Men and women process information differently.
On emotionial issuses, women tend to be more complex then men.
Also, when a man asks a woman, "Whats wrong"? and keeps getting the same answer, "nothing" or ask him, why do you think something is wrong. Eventually, the man will stop asking.
Also, it is important to remember, that communication envolves listening as well as talking.
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oenophile
I have to agree with Zshot and Oak. Vickles, it is just the way we men are hardwired. We can tell whensomething is upsetting you women what we are not so good at is knowing what is bothering you. So my question is why do women insist on playing the game of "guess why I am bothered today." It is not that we don't want to know, we would love to know because first we actually do care about you very much and secondly, so we can avoid the emotional mine field but you have to provide us with information in the form of words, pictures, graphs, spreadsheets et.al. Otherwise, we don't get it. Get it? Why not make it easy on yourselves and us by opening your mouth and speaking? Duh?
I will allow that perhaps sometimes (and I think that this is the case more often than not) women really don't know themselves what is bothering them. If this is the case, my advice as a knuckle dragging, neanderthal male is that couples need to have an emotional safe space to which they may retreat to gain understanding. This space would be free of judgment, egotism but a place of honesty and concern that takes into account our differences as men and women. The goal (see my linear male mind at work) of this exercise (oops, there it is again) would be really trying to understand each others point of view without jumping to conclusions about the other person.
A good preface to any sensitive emotional issue would be as follows: "I feel (fill in the blank with appropriate emotion) and I need (fill in blank with appropriate need).
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mj412
with friends when the relationship get weird or difficult I take a break and come back to it when things have calmed down or we can talk better.
space. I do not know how much is available when your married, between money , jobs kids cars pets house all that the married life brings.
I mean if your partner gets sick your suppose to be available to pick up the slack and NOT complain.. that is love.
after awhile I think I would complain.. In relationships that are comminted your suppose to rise to the occasion, and what if it is during a time your need space?
sounds like alot of work..
as far as children now that mine are grown I just can NOT never ever imagine life without these people that I have know since they didnt even know how to burp!
now with the new grands life seems so much more worth living.
I do not have alot of money, or a big career, or home. i invested my life work into them and I like the reWARDS.
As I age I see life go on andit keeps my own exciting and new.
I will say I see many sad people who have never had children. It must be odd , you know in this culture to be middle age and never had children I can relate because when I was young and everyone was married I felt left out alot not part of the life many where living.
but we need to bloom where planted and life is all about how we look at our own situation. I think aging for women is more difficult for women, if a man has money he can get a young new wife, no so easy for a woman. esp. if she has children.
I gave alot to raise my kids, but I think it was a sound investment I have single friends with no children and they are sad some in their sixties with dead or sick parents and of course nieces and nephews.
I know how this sounds because I am not married and many pity me for it and must think I live a half of a life. but I do not feel that way . so they must get involved in a carreer or something to dedicate all your energy in that has rewards. I do not think some marriages are all that fabulous it is just like all you have invested in and you stay, like children. we go with what we know in life mostly.
but the bible says it all is not worth it and I do believe it is true.
the only true happy days and peace comes from God and knowing we will reach a life that is eternal without all these confusing emotions.
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Cindy!
Wineman...you make an excellent point!
Every marriage needs that "soft place to land". A place in the marriage where it is safe...no judgements, no past being thrown in ones' face, no fault-finding. Where active listening is employed so that each person KNOWS they are heard, understood, and cared about.
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Bramble
I agree. Too bad that TWI(2,anyway) tried very hard to make sure believer marriages did not have this soft place to land. Iron had to sharpen iron, perfection in everything was the standard, and all that, plus there was the weekly schedule for leadershi+ to scrutinize, to see if you were sceduling in your sex time.
I can see how many marriages, coming out of that, would be wobbly and close to collapse.
When we left, we were relieved of lots of pressure, because living the TWI way was not natural to us, so we gave each other needed breaks. But if one of us had loved that previous lifestyle(it would appeal to someone who wanted to control their spouse)it never would have worked.
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Belle
There's defnitely something to the "soft place to fall" needs in a family. I think that's where tolerance for other beliefs comes into play as well. There has to be a true feeling of unconditional love.
There's a joke going around about best friends and one of the lines is something like:
I used to have a lot of girlfriends like this pre-TWI. Now I have a couple that I've reconnected with. We picked up right where we left off and it's been wonderful and very healing.
IMO, a husband should be like this too. I should know that no matter what I do, no matter how stupid it is, he will always help me hide the bodies.
:D--> I should be able to tell him anything and know that it won't change his love for me. (It doesn't mean that he always agrees with or condones it)
My ex was scared to death I was going to get us kicked out of TWI. He was always looking for devil spirits and causes in everything that went wrong in our lives and, God forbid, in my life alone. I was the weakness bringing down his strength. He refused to acknowledge that I had anything to contribute to the relationship. I became stupid, rebellious, slothful and just plain weak spiritually in his eyes.
When the focus or standards for the relationship are based on someone else's standards or approval from others, the love and relationship/friendship aspects of the marriage are destroyed.
Trust and unconditional love - blown out of the water. In TWI or out of TWI - facing judgement in the home constantly whether it's discussed or not, destroys a relationship.
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vickles
Ok guys that is well and good and it sounds really nice. But when a woman wants to tell how she feels a lot of times the guys feel like they are being confronted. And walk away. They don't like to share their feelings.
Am I right?
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vickles
I totally agree that you have to have a safe place to share.
Bob and I go to counseling once a month because of my special needs kids and it is there that a lot of times is very safe for us to share. Then there is the third person that is there to help us along if needed.
It is very hard for bob to share is feelings as he has been hurt by many people all through his life. He has learned to trust me and is able to share more than he ever has been able to. But I think in general I have found many men like this.
If there is a problem most men walk away to not deal with it.
The safe place I have found is a place he can't just walk away and we have had some really heart to heart honest talks in therapy.
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LG
Oenphile's last few sentences go both ways.
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