From what I've seen, if the brain perceives that it is doing the right thing, it can justify anything. Even an act, that by itself would repulse even the least humane among us, can be justified as promoting what is right and is for the greater good.
History is littered with examples. Germany under Hitler, suicidal cults, even our modern day Islamic suicide bombers. Those are extreme examples but lesser examples are a part of everyday life. I've been guilty of doing acts that I now abhor recalling its memory. But they were done because, at the time, it appeared to be the right thing to do and for the betterment of the other person. The sub conscience voice, repeatedly screaming "this is wrong," was silenced by the rationalization of the conscience which had built up this fantasy based on faulty information.
I think the influence of the Old Testament plays a role also. It describes numerous atrocities that by themselves should repulse anyone. People, even women and children, being slaughtered for such minor infractions as having their home on the wrong piece of land. A wife and her children executed because the husband stole some goods from a conquered city. Is there not a book in the O.T. that does not contain such an event? Yet we are told that this is God's Word. This is what God willed. It was therefore the right thing to do. The mind rewires itself to ignore the natural disgust of such a thing to believe that an event done for God makes it right. When it comes to leaving your spouse for TWI, or marking and avoiding someone, or yelling at them, etc., it's easy to do because one knows that if it were not for JC and the new administration, the person would have been executed. They're actually getting off easy.
"Ha ha ha, Another broken marriage and family. Time to put another notch in my belt."
Belle, I have witnessed this- but not exactly in the same words. It is MORE than just another notch in the belt.
There are some that seem willing to sacrifice whole families over their arcane beliefs. They are willing to divide whole families simply to showcase the results of not following their stupid mandates to the letter.
The last nice little suprise meeting with my ex and I, Mr. vegetables actually said, "when I separate you, then we will find out what really is wrong".
The guy was (still probably is) a RAVING LUNATIC. We did not admit it at the time, but at least we finally saw it.
We left the meeting, and never came back.
His last words, "well, what do you have to say?"
"Hmmm. I'll get back to you on it, bye".
Mr. vegetables, you farking idiot, don't even think about claiming some victory that the almighty YOU split us up. Just wait till you see what's coming to YOU. Let's see you justify THAT. Miserable SOB..
The scary part, the miserable SOB is STILL in charge of no less than a REGION.
The mind rewires itself to ignore the natural disgust of such a thing to believe that an event done for God makes it right. When it comes to leaving your spouse for TWI, or marking and avoiding someone, or yelling at them, etc., it's easy to do because one knows that if it were not for JC and the new administration, the person would have been executed. They're actually getting off easy.
That's sick! Just sick!! and true.... :(-->
I remember reading that the Gil*s in FL commented to their fellowship regarding their own young daughter being M&A and kicked out of their house by saying it would have been better if she had died.
I imagine they would have stoned her without one ounce of remorse if they thought that it was one aspect of the OT that they should cling to, because, they really do pick and choose which parts of the OT to continue obeying, don't they?
Think of how many people would be dead if TWI could justify stoning because it wasn't "done away with" through Jesus. Disobedient children, people deemed gay through spiritual suspicion, people accused of stealing money from TWI....
Mr. vegetables, you farking idiot, don't even think about claiming some victory that the almighty YOU split us up. Just wait till you see what's coming to YOU. Let's see you justify THAT. Miserable SOB..
The scary part, the miserable SOB is STILL in charge of no less than a REGION.
Mr. H, that's extremely similar to my situation. I can just imagine Moneyhands telling my ex how he "saved" him from this contentious woman. He "saved" him from his devil possessed family. He "saved" him from anyone who actually gave a rat's a s s about him. If being cut off from all your true friends and loved ones is what it takes to be "saved", don't ever save me!
They will have quite the rude awakening when Jesus comes, won't they?
I think Bob has hit in on the nose... these people are so convinced that they are RIGHT and RIGHTEOUS, that absolutely any means justifies the ends to them... and they have no idea how idiotic they look to "real" people who are not locked into their beliefs. (just look at Tom Cruise's behavior... not to derail this thread)
These folks have talked themselves into believing that anything they do to protect and serve twi is GODLY. Period. I had so many arguments with my ex about this... it didn't matter that the people who were running the ministry did bad things. GOD gave this ministry to Dr.W. and GOD could see it thru any hardship. The mistakes didn't matter... keeping the ministry up and running did. This was his argument for everything I would bring up. And it was his solution to every problem. As long as we keep twi running, God will make sure it all comes out for good.
How he could reconcile "keeping twi running" and not actually addressing error, I don't know... I think so many of these folks are ultimately lazy... it is, after all, so much easier to point out other peoples' faults and demand they change than to look in the mirror and address your own faults.
Think of how many people would be dead if TWI could justify stoning because it wasn't "done away with" through Jesus. Disobedient children, people deemed gay through spiritual suspicion, people accused of stealing money from TWI....
Actually, TWI would be doing much worse if it could get away with it. The only thing holding them back is the laws of the country they are in. If TWI were to become the official religion of any country, it would be no different than when Rome adopted Christianity or our modern day equivalent Islamic states. Torture and murder would be common place since it is required to enforce the will of God (or Allah, or whomever).
I think Luis Buñuel said it best:
"God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed."
Remember no man is an island. It takes a village to raise an idiot.
As for your views on OT. There sure is a lot of violence in those books, but look at how many times bad things happened to the "chosen" ones. Israel was told by God to clear the land of the pagan nations, they failed. And theire reward was a history of enemies attacking and often oppressing them until David came along.
But Israel was judged sternly by God to teach the nation a lesson.
Whole families perished because of the sins the fathers committed. If that is not a wake up call for us what is?
We see how TWI blew it. Its founder dies a painfuld death, his body racked by cancer.
It's second leader hounded out of town for a sex scandal.
It's third leader allegedly living with another woman.
God's judgment is coming, and may be already here.
Israel was told by God to clear the land of the pagan nations, they failed. And theire [sic] reward was a history of enemies attacking and often oppressing them until David came along.
But Israel was judged sternly by God to teach the nation a lesson.
Whole families perished because of the sins the fathers committed. If that is not a wake up call for us what is?
No amount of rationalization, quoting of ancient texts, or anything else will ever convince me that murdering a young child or baby is justified, God's will, for the greater good, or anything else.
A young child/baby has only 3 goals in life: grow, learn, and enjoy life. They possess (if you can get past that word) pure innocence. The fantasy that they will somehow grow up to repeat their father’s deeds, or be an antagonist against God, is utterly ludicrous. So what? Shouldn’t they be given the free will choice? Why are they condemned before they commit any wrong doing?
I don't care if God or JC himself came down and threw the stones at them, or thrust a sword through their belly, or cut their heads off, or burned them alive. It is cold-blooded murder of an innocent person.
The fact that people can justify these records in the "Holy Writ" is disturbing.
Another thing about rationalization, and I learned this initially from a teaching by Walter Cumm*ns somewhere along the way. When one has convictions, but then fudges just "a little", then they become "comfortable" with that small compromise. And as they become comfortable with the small infraction, they begin to compromise on bigger and bigger issues. Cap this off with a "spiritual stamp of approval", and voila! Anything is now okay in the name of God's Word!
I remember an incident that happened to me when I was in The Way. When I first got to going to Twig, I remember that I started to say something "amiss" about a fellow new guy/brother in Christ. In fact, that brother was Harvey. He had wanted to marry the sweetest girl this side of heaven (a WOW gal), and had decided to NOT go WOW himself. The gal is to this day one of the most loving people I have ever met, and her love for him was something all of us guys thought of as his tremendous good fortune. She checked out of The Way a couple a years later and became a nurse in North Carolina, got married and had babies, God bless her...
But the idea of his breaking his comittment to go WOW was considered "not good" as we all can remember. Now the issue here is not whether or not is was wrong to not go WOW, but the issue of which I speak is that I spoke to the WOW Twig leader about Harvey's lack of comittment in a disparaging manner. I said something like; "Wow, Harvey's decided not to go WOW now, I thought he was really comitted, but I guess not". And yes, I was feeling a bit smug that I still held MY commitment to go WOW as I said this. Human nature ya know.
And bam! That Twig leader just nailed me and said; "Hey Jonny, don't ever ever speak negatively about a brother or sister in Christ! That's just gossiping and back stabbing! We all are God's Children, and even if we are wrong, we should not speak negatively about a brother or sister just to try and build yourself up in your own mind. You are righteous because of Jesus Christ, not because you are going WOW! So just curb your thinking on that stuff". And he showed me verses in the Word to back up his reproof, and that was the end of it. And to me, that was love! And that guy eventually became the LC of our fiftieth state, and he was, and no doubt still is, a man with great love and tenderness. He is "in" no more...
And that was the way it was BACK THEN in those earlier days. That was 1975/76. Also when I went in Rez in '79, I had begun to say something about a brother or sister, and the brother with whom I was speaking put his fingers in his ears and started going; "la la la lah! I don't want to hear it! Don't say!" While I was rationalizing and saying; "But I just wanted to...I'm not..." while he kept telling me to drop it, and so, I did. It was kinda like the Dr Evil/Scott Evil "SSHH thing". And I re-learned that old lesson, for, all I had been doing was trash talking someone.
But as time went on, I began to see leaders above me practicing the gossip thing, and tell me about some of the negative things going on amongst leaders that were yet over me or were my equals on the peer level. And this made me feel priviledged and on the "Inside" so to speak.
I remember many times my Limb leader telling me stuff about people in my state who did "bad stuff" that was "spiritually wrong". And since he was a Reverend, I, having human nature that wants to sin anyway, just went along with it, and enjoyed the salacious details, spiritual stamp of approval and all!
Also, it became evident that if my Limb guy not only allowed it as well as enjoyed it, even though I still believed that increasingly suppressed voice that it was wrong, I certainly wasn't going to be reproved for it, for, now it was ok! And the rationalization I was given, of course, was that I was only "told that stuff in order for my good learning about the spiritual battle of being a limb leader".
And then came what was a big bomb for me. Once, when LCM came to this great state to teach at a limb meeting and then hang with the Corps, he did smething that flabbergasted me and my wife. Since there were only about fifteen of us in the Corps here, our get together was small, cozy and informal. Craig told us jokes, made us laugh, and told us what was happening in the Corps program etc. And then at one point he totally "dissed" Dr. John S*mmerv*lle. I couldn't believe it!
He said something to this effect; "Yeah, that John S is slippery-er than a greazed eel in a barrel o' hog fat! You know what he did? Dr W told him that when he runs this next Bible Lands tour, that he is not to make any money on it at all. And ya know what? That's exactly what he had the whole thing set up to do, make himself pile of money off the deal! But Dr W caught him and told him to knock it off or the whole thing would be canceled. Can you guys believe his spiritual dishonesty? Slippery-er than a greazed eel in a barrel o' hogfat I tell ya!"
And I remember saying; "Why are you telling us this? That's not our business! That's Dr W's son in law you're talking about? Whatever happened to not talking negatively about a brother in Christ? The scripture is clear about not backbiting, etc, so what happened to "It Is Written Craig!?" And then he blasted me across the room with his voice and I hit the window, went through it and landed on the concrete twenty feet below, and was taken up dead. At least I seemed to be dead, for, as many said; "he is dead..."
Oh no wait, I only thought about saying that... --> Sadly, I went along with it, for, this was LCM, the next mogfot...
But the die was cast on that subject it seemed. If the big guys at the very top could do it, then it was okay now. And it seemed to progress incrementally. I guess it finally got to the point that it was not only okay to do it, but that you got spiritual brownie points to for it, and then later, people went on all out witch hunts and "manufactured" sins of people so they could dishonestly "confront them" about being spiritually off the Word. And everone built themselves up with pats on their backs by tearing others down, and "it was all good...."
Sorry this post was so long...
P.S.
I believe the teaching on the five steps to rationalization was the one about Saul, and how he rationalized his actions to Samuel, which is an excellent lesson in my opinion...
And I remember saying; "Why are you telling us this? That's not our business! That's Dr W's son in law you're talking about? Whatever happened to not talking negatively about a brother in Christ? The scripture is clear about not backbiting, etc, so what happened to "It Is Written Craig!?"
You had me going there, JL! I understand your point and have done the same things. I cringe every time I think about standing up in my office and asking my boss if she would be wearing a machine gun or an electric chair around her neck..... And I was right, doggone it!
I guess when you finally start to see things for what they are and the rose colored glasses come off, it's just hard to imagine people not seeing it, too....especially people who cover for all the evil and horrible deeds over and over again.
No amount of rationalization, quoting of ancient texts, or anything else will ever convince me that murdering a young child or baby is justified, God's will, for the greater good, or anything else.
A young child/baby has only 3 goals in life: grow, learn, and enjoy life. They possess (if you can get past that word) pure innocence. The fantasy that they will somehow grow up to repeat their father’s deeds, or be an antagonist against God, is utterly ludicrous. So what? Shouldn’t they be given the free will choice? Why are they condemned before they commit any wrong doing?
I don't care if God or JC himself came down and threw the stones at them, or thrust a sword through their belly, or cut their heads off, or burned them alive. It is cold-blooded murder of an innocent person.
The fact that people can justify these records in the "Holy Writ" is disturbing.
Disturbing AND scary.
There are churches like The Presbyterians, I think, that do not try to accept this as a good thing.
I disgusts me that I once followed the TWI partyline on this stuff.
I think Bob has hit in on the nose... these people are so convinced that they are RIGHT and RIGHTEOUS, that absolutely any means justifies the ends to them... and they have no idea how idiotic they look to "real" people who are not locked into their beliefs. (just look at Tom Cruise's behavior... not to derail this thread)
When divorcing my wife I agreed to move out the next morning after I told her and the limb guys. I found a room to rent and went to the bank to get some money to pay for it. She had wiped out our accounts of over $10,000! I immediately called about it and wanted half, and refused. Then I phoned the limb(burger) guys and told them the situation and asked them to have her give me my half.
His response was "whatever 'arrangements' you two make is none of my business". I said there was "no" arrangement at all, but she had stolen the whole thing. He hung up the phone.
Think of how many people would be dead if TWI could justify stoning because it wasn't "done away with" through Jesus. Disobedient children, people deemed gay through spiritual suspicion, people accused of stealing money from TWI....
Think of how many people in the world would be dead, enslaved or imprisoned if VPW or LCM had actually succeded in getting "Da Word" over the world and in especially in our government like VPW aspired to do. Makes me shudder to even think about it.
Imagine a U.S. Congress and Senate with a majority of its members looking to VPW, Craig or Rosie as the spiritual leader of the world? What if Craig called the shots behind the scenes in the CIA or FBI or God forbid - the military?
You nailed it, JL, TWI came to follow a guy who said he wished he could stone homosexuals. And no one had enough backbone (or nether regions) to stand up to that kind of statement.
Yup, you can rationalize anything in the face of the Great Goal: getting the Word Over the World (or now, getting it to prevail over our cult). Get outa my way, I have a High and Lofty goal! The dilemma is, what are they getting the Word to prevail for?
Think of how many people in the world would be dead, enslaved or imprisoned if VPW or LCM had actually succeded in getting "Da Word" over the world and in especially in our government like VPW aspired to do. Makes me shudder to even think about it.
OMG! Was he really trying to infiltrate his doctrine in the government? No wonder they lauded Lt. Col. S@m Gr@h@m to the hilt. He's actually a really nice guy, but having government leaders following their "suggestions" is downright scary....moreso than Nancy Reagan consulting her astrologers.
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Bob
From what I've seen, if the brain perceives that it is doing the right thing, it can justify anything. Even an act, that by itself would repulse even the least humane among us, can be justified as promoting what is right and is for the greater good.
History is littered with examples. Germany under Hitler, suicidal cults, even our modern day Islamic suicide bombers. Those are extreme examples but lesser examples are a part of everyday life. I've been guilty of doing acts that I now abhor recalling its memory. But they were done because, at the time, it appeared to be the right thing to do and for the betterment of the other person. The sub conscience voice, repeatedly screaming "this is wrong," was silenced by the rationalization of the conscience which had built up this fantasy based on faulty information.
I think the influence of the Old Testament plays a role also. It describes numerous atrocities that by themselves should repulse anyone. People, even women and children, being slaughtered for such minor infractions as having their home on the wrong piece of land. A wife and her children executed because the husband stole some goods from a conquered city. Is there not a book in the O.T. that does not contain such an event? Yet we are told that this is God's Word. This is what God willed. It was therefore the right thing to do. The mind rewires itself to ignore the natural disgust of such a thing to believe that an event done for God makes it right. When it comes to leaving your spouse for TWI, or marking and avoiding someone, or yelling at them, etc., it's easy to do because one knows that if it were not for JC and the new administration, the person would have been executed. They're actually getting off easy.
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Ham
Belle, I have witnessed this- but not exactly in the same words. It is MORE than just another notch in the belt.
There are some that seem willing to sacrifice whole families over their arcane beliefs. They are willing to divide whole families simply to showcase the results of not following their stupid mandates to the letter.
The last nice little suprise meeting with my ex and I, Mr. vegetables actually said, "when I separate you, then we will find out what really is wrong".
The guy was (still probably is) a RAVING LUNATIC. We did not admit it at the time, but at least we finally saw it.
We left the meeting, and never came back.
His last words, "well, what do you have to say?"
"Hmmm. I'll get back to you on it, bye".
Mr. vegetables, you farking idiot, don't even think about claiming some victory that the almighty YOU split us up. Just wait till you see what's coming to YOU. Let's see you justify THAT. Miserable SOB..
The scary part, the miserable SOB is STILL in charge of no less than a REGION.
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Belle
Bob Eastwood said:
That's sick! Just sick!! and true....
:(-->
I remember reading that the Gil*s in FL commented to their fellowship regarding their own young daughter being M&A and kicked out of their house by saying it would have been better if she had died.
I imagine they would have stoned her without one ounce of remorse if they thought that it was one aspect of the OT that they should cling to, because, they really do pick and choose which parts of the OT to continue obeying, don't they?
Think of how many people would be dead if TWI could justify stoning because it wasn't "done away with" through Jesus. Disobedient children, people deemed gay through spiritual suspicion, people accused of stealing money from TWI....
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Belle
Ham said:
Mr. H, that's extremely similar to my situation. I can just imagine Moneyhands telling my ex how he "saved" him from this contentious woman. He "saved" him from his devil possessed family. He "saved" him from anyone who actually gave a rat's a s s about him. If being cut off from all your true friends and loved ones is what it takes to be "saved", don't ever save me!
They will have quite the rude awakening when Jesus comes, won't they?
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TheHighWay
I think Bob has hit in on the nose... these people are so convinced that they are RIGHT and RIGHTEOUS, that absolutely any means justifies the ends to them... and they have no idea how idiotic they look to "real" people who are not locked into their beliefs. (just look at Tom Cruise's behavior... not to derail this thread)
These folks have talked themselves into believing that anything they do to protect and serve twi is GODLY. Period. I had so many arguments with my ex about this... it didn't matter that the people who were running the ministry did bad things. GOD gave this ministry to Dr.W. and GOD could see it thru any hardship. The mistakes didn't matter... keeping the ministry up and running did. This was his argument for everything I would bring up. And it was his solution to every problem. As long as we keep twi running, God will make sure it all comes out for good.
How he could reconcile "keeping twi running" and not actually addressing error, I don't know... I think so many of these folks are ultimately lazy... it is, after all, so much easier to point out other peoples' faults and demand they change than to look in the mirror and address your own faults.
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Bob
Actually, TWI would be doing much worse if it could get away with it. The only thing holding them back is the laws of the country they are in. If TWI were to become the official religion of any country, it would be no different than when Rome adopted Christianity or our modern day equivalent Islamic states. Torture and murder would be common place since it is required to enforce the will of God (or Allah, or whomever).
I think Luis Buñuel said it best:
"God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed."
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def59
Bob
Remember no man is an island. It takes a village to raise an idiot.
As for your views on OT. There sure is a lot of violence in those books, but look at how many times bad things happened to the "chosen" ones. Israel was told by God to clear the land of the pagan nations, they failed. And theire reward was a history of enemies attacking and often oppressing them until David came along.
But Israel was judged sternly by God to teach the nation a lesson.
Whole families perished because of the sins the fathers committed. If that is not a wake up call for us what is?
We see how TWI blew it. Its founder dies a painfuld death, his body racked by cancer.
It's second leader hounded out of town for a sex scandal.
It's third leader allegedly living with another woman.
God's judgment is coming, and may be already here.
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Bob
No amount of rationalization, quoting of ancient texts, or anything else will ever convince me that murdering a young child or baby is justified, God's will, for the greater good, or anything else.
A young child/baby has only 3 goals in life: grow, learn, and enjoy life. They possess (if you can get past that word) pure innocence. The fantasy that they will somehow grow up to repeat their father’s deeds, or be an antagonist against God, is utterly ludicrous. So what? Shouldn’t they be given the free will choice? Why are they condemned before they commit any wrong doing?
I don't care if God or JC himself came down and threw the stones at them, or thrust a sword through their belly, or cut their heads off, or burned them alive. It is cold-blooded murder of an innocent person.
The fact that people can justify these records in the "Holy Writ" is disturbing.
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lindyhopper
((((((((you guys))))))))
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J0nny Ling0
Good points Def.
Another thing about rationalization, and I learned this initially from a teaching by Walter Cumm*ns somewhere along the way. When one has convictions, but then fudges just "a little", then they become "comfortable" with that small compromise. And as they become comfortable with the small infraction, they begin to compromise on bigger and bigger issues. Cap this off with a "spiritual stamp of approval", and voila! Anything is now okay in the name of God's Word!
I remember an incident that happened to me when I was in The Way. When I first got to going to Twig, I remember that I started to say something "amiss" about a fellow new guy/brother in Christ. In fact, that brother was Harvey. He had wanted to marry the sweetest girl this side of heaven (a WOW gal), and had decided to NOT go WOW himself. The gal is to this day one of the most loving people I have ever met, and her love for him was something all of us guys thought of as his tremendous good fortune. She checked out of The Way a couple a years later and became a nurse in North Carolina, got married and had babies, God bless her...
But the idea of his breaking his comittment to go WOW was considered "not good" as we all can remember. Now the issue here is not whether or not is was wrong to not go WOW, but the issue of which I speak is that I spoke to the WOW Twig leader about Harvey's lack of comittment in a disparaging manner. I said something like; "Wow, Harvey's decided not to go WOW now, I thought he was really comitted, but I guess not". And yes, I was feeling a bit smug that I still held MY commitment to go WOW as I said this. Human nature ya know.
And bam! That Twig leader just nailed me and said; "Hey Jonny, don't ever ever speak negatively about a brother or sister in Christ! That's just gossiping and back stabbing! We all are God's Children, and even if we are wrong, we should not speak negatively about a brother or sister just to try and build yourself up in your own mind. You are righteous because of Jesus Christ, not because you are going WOW! So just curb your thinking on that stuff". And he showed me verses in the Word to back up his reproof, and that was the end of it. And to me, that was love! And that guy eventually became the LC of our fiftieth state, and he was, and no doubt still is, a man with great love and tenderness. He is "in" no more...
And that was the way it was BACK THEN in those earlier days. That was 1975/76. Also when I went in Rez in '79, I had begun to say something about a brother or sister, and the brother with whom I was speaking put his fingers in his ears and started going; "la la la lah! I don't want to hear it! Don't say!" While I was rationalizing and saying; "But I just wanted to...I'm not..." while he kept telling me to drop it, and so, I did. It was kinda like the Dr Evil/Scott Evil "SSHH thing". And I re-learned that old lesson, for, all I had been doing was trash talking someone.
But as time went on, I began to see leaders above me practicing the gossip thing, and tell me about some of the negative things going on amongst leaders that were yet over me or were my equals on the peer level. And this made me feel priviledged and on the "Inside" so to speak.
I remember many times my Limb leader telling me stuff about people in my state who did "bad stuff" that was "spiritually wrong". And since he was a Reverend, I, having human nature that wants to sin anyway, just went along with it, and enjoyed the salacious details, spiritual stamp of approval and all!
Also, it became evident that if my Limb guy not only allowed it as well as enjoyed it, even though I still believed that increasingly suppressed voice that it was wrong, I certainly wasn't going to be reproved for it, for, now it was ok! And the rationalization I was given, of course, was that I was only "told that stuff in order for my good learning about the spiritual battle of being a limb leader".
And then came what was a big bomb for me. Once, when LCM came to this great state to teach at a limb meeting and then hang with the Corps, he did smething that flabbergasted me and my wife. Since there were only about fifteen of us in the Corps here, our get together was small, cozy and informal. Craig told us jokes, made us laugh, and told us what was happening in the Corps program etc. And then at one point he totally "dissed" Dr. John S*mmerv*lle. I couldn't believe it!
He said something to this effect; "Yeah, that John S is slippery-er than a greazed eel in a barrel o' hog fat! You know what he did? Dr W told him that when he runs this next Bible Lands tour, that he is not to make any money on it at all. And ya know what? That's exactly what he had the whole thing set up to do, make himself pile of money off the deal! But Dr W caught him and told him to knock it off or the whole thing would be canceled. Can you guys believe his spiritual dishonesty? Slippery-er than a greazed eel in a barrel o' hogfat I tell ya!"
And I remember saying; "Why are you telling us this? That's not our business! That's Dr W's son in law you're talking about? Whatever happened to not talking negatively about a brother in Christ? The scripture is clear about not backbiting, etc, so what happened to "It Is Written Craig!?" And then he blasted me across the room with his voice and I hit the window, went through it and landed on the concrete twenty feet below, and was taken up dead. At least I seemed to be dead, for, as many said; "he is dead..."
Oh no wait, I only thought about saying that...
--> Sadly, I went along with it, for, this was LCM, the next mogfot...
But the die was cast on that subject it seemed. If the big guys at the very top could do it, then it was okay now. And it seemed to progress incrementally. I guess it finally got to the point that it was not only okay to do it, but that you got spiritual brownie points to for it, and then later, people went on all out witch hunts and "manufactured" sins of people so they could dishonestly "confront them" about being spiritually off the Word. And everone built themselves up with pats on their backs by tearing others down, and "it was all good...."
Sorry this post was so long...
P.S.
I believe the teaching on the five steps to rationalization was the one about Saul, and how he rationalized his actions to Samuel, which is an excellent lesson in my opinion...
There! I'm finally finished!
:)-->
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Belle
You had me going there, JL! I understand your point and have done the same things. I cringe every time I think about standing up in my office and asking my boss if she would be wearing a machine gun or an electric chair around her neck..... And I was right, doggone it!
I guess when you finally start to see things for what they are and the rose colored glasses come off, it's just hard to imagine people not seeing it, too....especially people who cover for all the evil and horrible deeds over and over again.
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Bramble
Disturbing AND scary.
There are churches like The Presbyterians, I think, that do not try to accept this as a good thing.
I disgusts me that I once followed the TWI partyline on this stuff.
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Stayed Too Long
When divorcing my wife I agreed to move out the next morning after I told her and the limb guys. I found a room to rent and went to the bank to get some money to pay for it. She had wiped out our accounts of over $10,000! I immediately called about it and wanted half, and refused. Then I phoned the limb(burger) guys and told them the situation and asked them to have her give me my half.
His response was "whatever 'arrangements' you two make is none of my business". I said there was "no" arrangement at all, but she had stolen the whole thing. He hung up the phone.
What a bunch of jerks!
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Oakspear
"Whatever arrangements you two have made are none of my business"
Hah!
That was a game that they played both sides of. EVERYTHING was their business when they wanted it to be. But they'd step back when you asked for help.
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Goey
Think of how many people in the world would be dead, enslaved or imprisoned if VPW or LCM had actually succeded in getting "Da Word" over the world and in especially in our government like VPW aspired to do. Makes me shudder to even think about it.
Imagine a U.S. Congress and Senate with a majority of its members looking to VPW, Craig or Rosie as the spiritual leader of the world? What if Craig called the shots behind the scenes in the CIA or FBI or God forbid - the military?
Word over the world? Word over Government?
Sure glad it failed.
Goey
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shazdancer
You nailed it, JL, TWI came to follow a guy who said he wished he could stone homosexuals. And no one had enough backbone (or nether regions) to stand up to that kind of statement.
Yup, you can rationalize anything in the face of the Great Goal: getting the Word Over the World (or now, getting it to prevail over our cult). Get outa my way, I have a High and Lofty goal! The dilemma is, what are they getting the Word to prevail for?
Oh yeah, to make $$$, I forgot.
Regards,
Shaz
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Trefor Heywood
I would always prefer to get stoned in my own way!
;)-->
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Belle
Goey:
OMG! Was he really trying to infiltrate his doctrine in the government? No wonder they lauded Lt. Col. S@m Gr@h@m to the hilt. He's actually a really nice guy, but having government leaders following their "suggestions" is downright scary....moreso than Nancy Reagan consulting her astrologers.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
i have heard osama bin ladin is a corps grad
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