I have admired Mrs. W for years. There is a essence about her that words will never be able to communicate. Her fortitude and temperence...again...no words. If there was ever a women that was able to forgive and move on ...I think it would be her. I think she was able to endured much because she knew her God. More so than her husband ever did.
She reminded me of my mother. She has lived a good and happy life for the most part and a long one too. Helped a lot of people in her own quiet way. Ted that was a good gift.
It is my understanding that she has requested to be buried next to her husband, as it should be.
To John Paul, Sara Kathryn, Kevin, and others, In my private post to you, I offered my sympathies and said that my mother herself is in the last stages of Alzeimhers, so I know what you all must be going through. Pleases let me know of her funeral and I shall try to get there for it, that is if Rosie will allow us to attend. I promise there will be no protest, at least on my part. Agape, Thomas
There is no mention of Mrs. W. conditition and/or requesting prayers for her and her family. That would be a kind and loving thing to do. Hence, that thought won't come to them (they will have to read it here).
They probably just found out at Greasespot, how would they know they disassociated themselves from her a few years ago.
Wouldn't it be nice if all who were involved in TWI over the years did go the her gravesite at TWI II. Boy they would really see what they have been missing all these years and finally see all of those that were not greasespots by midnight. What a witness to those left in. I really pray that there is a huge showing of believers that left and show them all what The Body of Christ is really about.
My prayers for the family, she is dearly loved by so many.
Wouldn't it be nice if all who were involved in TWI over the years did go the her gravesite at TWI II. Boy they would really see what they have been missing all these years and finally see all of those that were not greasespots by midnight. What a witness to those left in. I really pray that there is a huge showing of believers that left and show them all what The Body of Christ is really about.
Honestly, I would hope it would be about respect for Mrs. W., not a slap in TWI's face. There are other avenues for that.
Honestly, I would hope it would be about respect for Mrs. W., not a slap in TWI's face. There are other avenues for that.
I doubt that there are that many people who know her as well as, say your next-door neighbor, or the other parents in PTA. (I didn't say none)
Somehow, Mrs. W, as wonderful as she very well might have been, has become a symbol to a lot of us ex-wayfers, a symbol of what we wish TWI had turned out to be: the haven of love, the family among families. She's also a symbol of "the victim", many characterize her as the first recipient of Wierwille's abuse. She's become that symbol, and not a real person.
Maybe she was afraid to speak up against her husband during his reign as MOG, maybe women just didn't speak against their husbands in those days. But she had the opportunity to walk out the door with four of her children. She had the opportunity to not stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Martindale, and criticize those who claimed that they loved her while leaving TWI as not manifesting true agape.
I wouldn't wish Alzheimer's on anyone, and I think it's sad what has happened to her, and a rotten shame how TWI has cut her loose when she was of no further use to them. My heart goes out to her family as well.
But she accepted the benefits of being "The First Lady of The Way" and all the perks that it entailed for a long time.
I, too, think she was terribly mistaken to stand with Martindale, as evidenced by the fact that I bolted despite her public admonitions to stand with TWI in 1989.
I would love to talk to the Wierwille children about whether there was more to that decision of hers than most of us knew. I would love to hear that there was a reason for her to make that enormously damaging decision. She could have driven a stake through TWI's heart that would make POP look like a toothpick. I would love to ask the Wierwille children what really happened behind the scenes.
And the moment it becomes my business, I will ask them.
It's not my business, though. And it never will be. She did what she did. She asked me for neither permission nor approval. That's as it should be. At this time, I simply wish her peace.
Yeah, I wish her peace, too. But gotta disagree about it not being our business. The decision was not a private one, but public. It affected many people.
Doubt I would ask family about it during this tough time, doubt I would get an answer anyway.
Sorry she's dying, but the orgy of hero-worship is leaving a bad taste.
Yeah, I wish her peace, too. But gotta disagree about it not being our business. The decision was not a private one, but public. It affected many people.
It shouldn't have. If it did, that's the responsibility of those who decided to stay because she stayed, don't you think?
quote:
Sorry she's dying, but the orgy of hero-worship is leaving a bad taste.
I don't see much "hero worship" in this thread. I see affection. And you're probably right, for those who didn't know her well, that affection might be fondness for an image, for what she represented--but hero worship?
Personally, although I was in twi for 17 years, lived at Rome City (during which time she frequently visited) for two years, and lived at HQ for 4 years, I never felt I knew her or that she knew me.
When I left in '89, I was a little puzzled by her sticking around, but only a little. After all, twi owned her home, the place she'd raised her children--in addition to owning her ancestral farm. And maybe she thought, like so many others who hung in there, that by staying she could help turn things around. We may never know.
The family is planning a service in St. Mary's so that EVERYONE may come and are welcome.
I would hope that if Sara does open the memorial service to EVERYONE, that EVERYONE who comes will be well-behaved. I am sure most people will be, but through experience I have found that there are a few folks who have no clue as to decency.
I may be sticking my neck out here, but I feel like I have got to say this. Once at a CFF reunion when Sara and I were talking, someone who didn't even know her, came up and began an inquisition regarding her mother and details that were none of his business, and I nearly knocked the fella flat afterwards, because it was extremely hurtful to her besides being inappropriate.
I just don't want to have to take anyone else out behind the barn.
A memorial service is to celebrate the life of the deceased, and is a time to support the family who is left behind.
If you go, please be respectful of the time and occasion, and of the feelings of the family.
There is a time and a place for every purpose under heaven. I simply ask that you be respectful of the family at this particularly sensitive moment.
It will NOT be a time to bug Sara or JP regarding TWI issues. If they bring it up in conversation, fine. But let it be their choice.
Agreed. Thank you both, Linda Z and Catcup for those posts.
I purposely didn't express my opinions on this thread out of respect for the situation, but since its been brought up, I will add this much:
Yes, Mrs. W's decision to stay with twi was a factor in my deciding to stay. ONE FACTOR of several. In the end, it was MY decision to stay with twi. I've decided it's unfair for me to blame her, because I think she was just as messed up by these people as I was, and coping the best way she knew how.
I let friends, who were totally convinced of the "rightness" of twi even in its darkest days, talk me out of my decision to leave... a few times, in fact. Was it their fault they believed in twi, or my fault that I listened to them despite my own gut feelings?
As for the woman, herself... I didn't know her well, but I was around her often and never saw her behave in an ungracious or unkind way. She made my time at HQ a little more enjoyable by her presence. And while I wouldn't have expected her to remember me from a ....-ant, I ran into her during my last visit to HQ and she greeted me warmly and asked how I was doing.
I don't worship her, and I haven't forget that she made mistakes... plenty of them. But I do remember her fondly. Along with the other "good bits" of twi. It doesn't mean I've forgotten the rest. It just means I choose to deal with those issues at another, more appropriate time and place.
Personally, I wouldn't even bother the kids, at all. I wonder how many times they have had to relive all this crap over, again, and again, and again..
I would not even consider asking about it. I already know enough anyway.
Despite her flaws, I thought Mrs. W to be a really nice lady. I believe she did what she thought was right, like a lot of us did too, under a bad situation. I hope they can find some peace in all of this.
I always thought fondly of Mrs. W. She was always extremely gracious to me also. Although I didn't know her on a personal level, I saw her in the halls of HQ, and she frequented the department I worked in to ask questions.
Anytime I saw her in the hall, she acknowledged you. If you consider that she knows everyone at HQ will want to say hi to her, that is a HUGE task. There were almost 400 people there. There were people I saw on a regular basis who NEVER acknowledged others in the halls.
She was always eager to share any goodies or treats she just received after going to the mail room. She always gave the Staff Blue Bunny bars on her own birthday. She was different than the rest of those who were bigwigs in twi. It was refreshing. She always made trips to buy presents to present them to the Staff children. She held Christmas parties in her own home for the Staff children. She didn't have to do any of this. She wanted to.
Despite who she was married to or why she continued to support lcm, she displayed a lot of love to people. I remember hearing that she thought vpw was crazy to do some of the things he did in order to start up the ministry. She was probably stuck in that situation. Maybe divorce wasn't an option to her. Divorce wasn't a way of life like it is today.
I never worshiped her or made her a hero. She was always a nice lady who went out of her way to make people feel welcomed and comfortable. That's a quality a lot of people in this world could imitate, including myself.
She indeed was. She was isolated, and very much alone, especially after her family was marked and avoided. Knowing how much her image meant to people who were on the fence, TWI wanted to keep her around as a prize. That is, at least until she became too old and too ill for them to want to deal with her. Sara once told me that her mother was "a prisoner in her own home."
Mrs. W. was always gracious to me and to my family. I pray for her in her last days that she is peaceful, not in pain, and thankfully finally surrounded by those she loves.
Mrs. W, I think had a very tough time...I remember when she came to witchita and spoke one year, I think pop had already been read....
Anyway, she mentioned that folks at hq had said things that hurt her terribly...she mentioned crying....can`t even remember what the point of her teaching was....I guess how she had handled the situation....I just remember wanting to rise up outta my seat and rip the throats outta whoever had dared to hurt her so deeply....
Life was not easy for her, but I think she did her very best to handle the shame and blows with dignity and grace.
Personally, I wouldn't even bother the kids, at all. I wonder how many times they have had to relive all this crap over, again, and again, and again..
I hope I made it clear that I would never ask the Wierwille children anything of the kind. If I didn't make that clear, let me do so now: it's none of my business, and I would never ask.
Wouldn't it be nice if all who were involved in TWI over the years did go the her gravesite at TWI II. Boy they would really see what they have been missing all these years and finally see all of those that were not greasespots by midnight. What a witness to those left in. I really pray that there is a huge showing of believers that left and show them all what The Body of Christ is really about.
Honestly, I would hope it would be about respect for Mrs. W., not a slap in TWI's face. There are other avenues for that.
George
George don't put words in my mouth and read into this something that is not there.
I highly doubt TWI would allow non-TWI visitors to Mrs. W's gravesite.
If the memorial service is in St. Mary's and conducted by the family, TWI cannot control that. But they WILL control who they allow at the graveside service when she is buried next to her husband.
I would be surprised if they allow anyone but next of kin and certain selected TWI officials.
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imbus
Thanks Ted!
I have admired Mrs. W for years. There is a essence about her that words will never be able to communicate. Her fortitude and temperence...again...no words. If there was ever a women that was able to forgive and move on ...I think it would be her. I think she was able to endured much because she knew her God. More so than her husband ever did.
God Bless You Mrs.W...Real BIG!
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skyrider
Yeah.....Mrs. W walked the walk
while....veepee talked his talk
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igotout
She reminded me of my mother. She has lived a good and happy life for the most part and a long one too. Helped a lot of people in her own quiet way. Ted that was a good gift.
It is my understanding that she has requested to be buried next to her husband, as it should be.
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Thomas Loy Bumgarner
To John Paul, Sara Kathryn, Kevin, and others, In my private post to you, I offered my sympathies and said that my mother herself is in the last stages of Alzeimhers, so I know what you all must be going through. Pleases let me know of her funeral and I shall try to get there for it, that is if Rosie will allow us to attend. I promise there will be no protest, at least on my part. Agape, Thomas
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mzimagine
Thank you, Ted, for that post.
It is difficult to read through the tears.
What a fmaily reunion that will be at her memorial.
Innies and Outies all hugging eachother.
IMAGINE THAT!
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LornaDoone
Yeah imagine, I rather doubt it. Under the scrutiny of "the fox"?
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LornaDoone
They probably just found out at Greasespot, how would they know they disassociated themselves from her a few years ago.
Wouldn't it be nice if all who were involved in TWI over the years did go the her gravesite at TWI II. Boy they would really see what they have been missing all these years and finally see all of those that were not greasespots by midnight. What a witness to those left in. I really pray that there is a huge showing of believers that left and show them all what The Body of Christ is really about.
My prayers for the family, she is dearly loved by so many.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Honestly, I would hope it would be about respect for Mrs. W., not a slap in TWI's face. There are other avenues for that.
George
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Oakspear
Somehow, Mrs. W, as wonderful as she very well might have been, has become a symbol to a lot of us ex-wayfers, a symbol of what we wish TWI had turned out to be: the haven of love, the family among families. She's also a symbol of "the victim", many characterize her as the first recipient of Wierwille's abuse. She's become that symbol, and not a real person.
Maybe she was afraid to speak up against her husband during his reign as MOG, maybe women just didn't speak against their husbands in those days. But she had the opportunity to walk out the door with four of her children. She had the opportunity to not stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Martindale, and criticize those who claimed that they loved her while leaving TWI as not manifesting true agape.
I wouldn't wish Alzheimer's on anyone, and I think it's sad what has happened to her, and a rotten shame how TWI has cut her loose when she was of no further use to them. My heart goes out to her family as well.
But she accepted the benefits of being "The First Lady of The Way" and all the perks that it entailed for a long time.
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ToadFriend
I'm sorry to hear she is not doing well. She was a wonderful woman in many ways ... very caring, very loving.
TF
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Raf
I, too, think she was terribly mistaken to stand with Martindale, as evidenced by the fact that I bolted despite her public admonitions to stand with TWI in 1989.
I would love to talk to the Wierwille children about whether there was more to that decision of hers than most of us knew. I would love to hear that there was a reason for her to make that enormously damaging decision. She could have driven a stake through TWI's heart that would make POP look like a toothpick. I would love to ask the Wierwille children what really happened behind the scenes.
And the moment it becomes my business, I will ask them.
It's not my business, though. And it never will be. She did what she did. She asked me for neither permission nor approval. That's as it should be. At this time, I simply wish her peace.
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Oakspear
Yeah, I wish her peace, too. But gotta disagree about it not being our business. The decision was not a private one, but public. It affected many people.
Doubt I would ask family about it during this tough time, doubt I would get an answer anyway.
Sorry she's dying, but the orgy of hero-worship is leaving a bad taste.
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Linda Z
Oakspear said:
It shouldn't have. If it did, that's the responsibility of those who decided to stay because she stayed, don't you think?
I don't see much "hero worship" in this thread. I see affection. And you're probably right, for those who didn't know her well, that affection might be fondness for an image, for what she represented--but hero worship?
Personally, although I was in twi for 17 years, lived at Rome City (during which time she frequently visited) for two years, and lived at HQ for 4 years, I never felt I knew her or that she knew me.
When I left in '89, I was a little puzzled by her sticking around, but only a little. After all, twi owned her home, the place she'd raised her children--in addition to owning her ancestral farm. And maybe she thought, like so many others who hung in there, that by staying she could help turn things around. We may never know.
I wish her peace, too.
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Catcup
I would hope that if Sara does open the memorial service to EVERYONE, that EVERYONE who comes will be well-behaved. I am sure most people will be, but through experience I have found that there are a few folks who have no clue as to decency.
I may be sticking my neck out here, but I feel like I have got to say this. Once at a CFF reunion when Sara and I were talking, someone who didn't even know her, came up and began an inquisition regarding her mother and details that were none of his business, and I nearly knocked the fella flat afterwards, because it was extremely hurtful to her besides being inappropriate.
I just don't want to have to take anyone else out behind the barn.
A memorial service is to celebrate the life of the deceased, and is a time to support the family who is left behind.
If you go, please be respectful of the time and occasion, and of the feelings of the family.
There is a time and a place for every purpose under heaven. I simply ask that you be respectful of the family at this particularly sensitive moment.
It will NOT be a time to bug Sara or JP regarding TWI issues. If they bring it up in conversation, fine. But let it be their choice.
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Linda Z
Thanks for saying that, Catcup. I think it needed to be said for the few, who in their furor to expose everything twi, might forget.
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TheHighWay
Agreed. Thank you both, Linda Z and Catcup for those posts.
I purposely didn't express my opinions on this thread out of respect for the situation, but since its been brought up, I will add this much:
Yes, Mrs. W's decision to stay with twi was a factor in my deciding to stay. ONE FACTOR of several. In the end, it was MY decision to stay with twi. I've decided it's unfair for me to blame her, because I think she was just as messed up by these people as I was, and coping the best way she knew how.
I let friends, who were totally convinced of the "rightness" of twi even in its darkest days, talk me out of my decision to leave... a few times, in fact. Was it their fault they believed in twi, or my fault that I listened to them despite my own gut feelings?
As for the woman, herself... I didn't know her well, but I was around her often and never saw her behave in an ungracious or unkind way. She made my time at HQ a little more enjoyable by her presence. And while I wouldn't have expected her to remember me from a ....-ant, I ran into her during my last visit to HQ and she greeted me warmly and asked how I was doing.
I don't worship her, and I haven't forget that she made mistakes... plenty of them. But I do remember her fondly. Along with the other "good bits" of twi. It doesn't mean I've forgotten the rest. It just means I choose to deal with those issues at another, more appropriate time and place.
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Ham
Personally, I wouldn't even bother the kids, at all. I wonder how many times they have had to relive all this crap over, again, and again, and again..
I would not even consider asking about it. I already know enough anyway.
Despite her flaws, I thought Mrs. W to be a really nice lady. I believe she did what she thought was right, like a lot of us did too, under a bad situation. I hope they can find some peace in all of this.
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Nottawayfer
I always thought fondly of Mrs. W. She was always extremely gracious to me also. Although I didn't know her on a personal level, I saw her in the halls of HQ, and she frequented the department I worked in to ask questions.
Anytime I saw her in the hall, she acknowledged you. If you consider that she knows everyone at HQ will want to say hi to her, that is a HUGE task. There were almost 400 people there. There were people I saw on a regular basis who NEVER acknowledged others in the halls.
She was always eager to share any goodies or treats she just received after going to the mail room. She always gave the Staff Blue Bunny bars on her own birthday. She was different than the rest of those who were bigwigs in twi. It was refreshing. She always made trips to buy presents to present them to the Staff children. She held Christmas parties in her own home for the Staff children. She didn't have to do any of this. She wanted to.
Despite who she was married to or why she continued to support lcm, she displayed a lot of love to people. I remember hearing that she thought vpw was crazy to do some of the things he did in order to start up the ministry. She was probably stuck in that situation. Maybe divorce wasn't an option to her. Divorce wasn't a way of life like it is today.
I never worshiped her or made her a hero. She was always a nice lady who went out of her way to make people feel welcomed and comfortable. That's a quality a lot of people in this world could imitate, including myself.
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Catcup
She indeed was. She was isolated, and very much alone, especially after her family was marked and avoided. Knowing how much her image meant to people who were on the fence, TWI wanted to keep her around as a prize. That is, at least until she became too old and too ill for them to want to deal with her. Sara once told me that her mother was "a prisoner in her own home."
Mrs. W. was always gracious to me and to my family. I pray for her in her last days that she is peaceful, not in pain, and thankfully finally surrounded by those she loves.
--And those who truly love her.
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rascal
Mrs. W, I think had a very tough time...I remember when she came to witchita and spoke one year, I think pop had already been read....
Anyway, she mentioned that folks at hq had said things that hurt her terribly...she mentioned crying....can`t even remember what the point of her teaching was....I guess how she had handled the situation....I just remember wanting to rise up outta my seat and rip the throats outta whoever had dared to hurt her so deeply....
Life was not easy for her, but I think she did her very best to handle the shame and blows with dignity and grace.
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Raf
I hope I made it clear that I would never ask the Wierwille children anything of the kind. If I didn't make that clear, let me do so now: it's none of my business, and I would never ask.
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LornaDoone
George don't put words in my mouth and read into this something that is not there.
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Catcup
I highly doubt TWI would allow non-TWI visitors to Mrs. W's gravesite.
If the memorial service is in St. Mary's and conducted by the family, TWI cannot control that. But they WILL control who they allow at the graveside service when she is buried next to her husband.
I would be surprised if they allow anyone but next of kin and certain selected TWI officials.
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penguin
Does anyone know how Mrs. W is doing since the post on Aug 12th?
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