Lol.... there is a world of difference between Jesus` analogy of sheep and their need for the protection and guidance of the shepherd verses your analogy of a nasty critter who likes to bu tt heads with friend and foe alike at the drop of a hat....
As I understand it, goats are quite versatile, and as highly value by the shepherd as their sheep counter parts....
Every member of the flock is prized.....
Contrary to being pleased with a bully, shepherds tend to be annoyed with the animals be they sheep or goat that insist on being quarrelsom, whom constantly bully and harass the other members of the flock....they are the ones that generally end up in the stew pot:-)
Consider also, that like the ornery old ram, one might be so blinded by their quarrelsom nature, as to be totally oblivious to the damage that one inflicts on themself and the rest of the flock, much to the annoyance of the shepherd......
Maybe the shepherd has need of, and even apreciates the qualities of each individual member of his flocks...it certainly isn`t up to the ornery old ram to decide who has merit....count the shepherd to sort em all out in the end.
This silly analogy aside, it seems to me that you, WTH, feel justified scripturally,indeed noble in your mistreatment of your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Do you REALLY think that being a bully over doctrinal issues makes you the shepherd/God/Daddy`s favorite?
There IS that little admonition by Jesus, *love God and Love your neighbor*....as being our primary responsibilities.
I think that ones *love of the *truth* shouldn`t be used as an excuse to ignore/obliterate the responsibility of the second great commandment given by the shepherd himself:-)
I don`t like this analogy anyway, who wants to compare themselves to a stinky stubborn mindless eating machine who is too damn stupid to survive without constant guidance.... who`s sole purpose on this planet is to produce wool, meat, and bear aditional little stinky eating machines, thereby enriching their shepherd, who cares for them, and who puts up with their nasty selves solely for what they can provide for him, and only keeps em around ONLY as long as they are usefull and producing.....(gee reminds me of our treatment and value in twi)
Quite a far cry from being joint heirs and ambassadors for Christ.....the beloved children of a loving heavenly father....lol
CM, trust me, goats follow their shepherd more readily than the sheep....that is why you need a couple of dogs to keep the sheep in order....goats follow their leader.....
Goats are more alert .... the sheep are the ones that are blindsided.
They are both the property of the shepherd and highly valued for what they provide.
The shepherd needs the meat, milk and skins, of the goat....they need the wool, meat and skins of the sheep....face it according to scripture we are no more than self duplicating consumable products.
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I don`t like this analogy anyway, who wants to compare themselves to a stinky stubborn mindless eating machine who is too damn stupid to survive without constant guidance.... who`s sole purpose on this planet is to produce wool, meat, and bear aditional little stinky eating machines, thereby enriching their shepherd, who cares for them, and who puts up with their nasty selves solely for what they can provide for him, and only keeps em around ONLY as long as they are usefull and producing.....(gee reminds me of our treatment and value in twi)
Quite a far cry from being joint heirs and ambassadors for Christ.....the beloved children of a loving heavenly father....lol
(lol) I must confess, I identify with Rascal's sentiments here - I'de rather think like the actual human being that I am, and not like some sheep or goat...or cat or dog (as with more recent updatings I've encountered here), or any other animal... and Christians knock the evolutionists (lol), because they dare to suggest we evolved from animals, while "believers" on the other hand don't hesitate to endue upon themselves qualities of four legged beasts as traits (or figurative illustrations) of discipleship?
Stuff that makes one go, "hmmmm..."
Perhaps such analogies worked fine in olden times and in that whacky camel culture, but they do appear awkward and even wholly out-of-place in our era and culture.
Perhaps we require a more updating to such parables, along the lines of this "Onion" headline:
Thanks Fish, I think that this is why the abuse of people through scripture and spiritual *authority*
is such an dispicable thing.
It gives God a HUGE credibility problem when he above all things is the one that we should feel safe trusting.
People feel like we oughtta be pleased to have learned scripture....but what the hell good did it do if we do not feel that we can safely trust the author?
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alfakat
no, your "problem" apparently lies elsewhere...still convinced you have ALL the answers, eh, klem???....
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rascal
Lol.... there is a world of difference between Jesus` analogy of sheep and their need for the protection and guidance of the shepherd verses your analogy of a nasty critter who likes to bu tt heads with friend and foe alike at the drop of a hat....
As I understand it, goats are quite versatile, and as highly value by the shepherd as their sheep counter parts....
Every member of the flock is prized.....
Contrary to being pleased with a bully, shepherds tend to be annoyed with the animals be they sheep or goat that insist on being quarrelsom, whom constantly bully and harass the other members of the flock....they are the ones that generally end up in the stew pot:-)
Consider also, that like the ornery old ram, one might be so blinded by their quarrelsom nature, as to be totally oblivious to the damage that one inflicts on themself and the rest of the flock, much to the annoyance of the shepherd......
Maybe the shepherd has need of, and even apreciates the qualities of each individual member of his flocks...it certainly isn`t up to the ornery old ram to decide who has merit....count the shepherd to sort em all out in the end.
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rascal
This silly analogy aside, it seems to me that you, WTH, feel justified scripturally,indeed noble in your mistreatment of your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Do you REALLY think that being a bully over doctrinal issues makes you the shepherd/God/Daddy`s favorite?
There IS that little admonition by Jesus, *love God and Love your neighbor*....as being our primary responsibilities.
I think that ones *love of the *truth* shouldn`t be used as an excuse to ignore/obliterate the responsibility of the second great commandment given by the shepherd himself:-)
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CM
the sheep follow
the goats are dragged
no separation
the sheep are ready for whatever
the goats are blindsided
our god is one
there's no escape
He started it, He will finish it...
not to worry though-god is love....
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rascal
I don`t like this analogy anyway, who wants to compare themselves to a stinky stubborn mindless eating machine who is too damn stupid to survive without constant guidance.... who`s sole purpose on this planet is to produce wool, meat, and bear aditional little stinky eating machines, thereby enriching their shepherd, who cares for them, and who puts up with their nasty selves solely for what they can provide for him, and only keeps em around ONLY as long as they are usefull and producing.....(gee reminds me of our treatment and value in twi)
Quite a far cry from being joint heirs and ambassadors for Christ.....the beloved children of a loving heavenly father....lol
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rascal
CM, trust me, goats follow their shepherd more readily than the sheep....that is why you need a couple of dogs to keep the sheep in order....goats follow their leader.....
Goats are more alert .... the sheep are the ones that are blindsided.
They are both the property of the shepherd and highly valued for what they provide.
The shepherd needs the meat, milk and skins, of the goat....they need the wool, meat and skins of the sheep....face it according to scripture we are no more than self duplicating consumable products.
Anybody for some goat stew or mutton?
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Trefor Heywood
Here in Wales it is the sheepdogs who guide the sheep in the way they should go.
Goats on the other hand are much more friendly.
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CM
upon reflection...
I don't think JC distinguished
the sheep between the goats anyway
not as people from people...
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
allegorical and figurative
more related to the heart of a person
we do so many things that will be on the right...
some on the left...
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rascal
So THAT is how you tell the sheep from the goats...so cool....makes all the sense in the world, thanks cm!
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TheInvisibleDan
(lol) I must confess, I identify with Rascal's sentiments here - I'de rather think like the actual human being that I am, and not like some sheep or goat...or cat or dog (as with more recent updatings I've encountered here), or any other animal... and Christians knock the evolutionists (lol), because they dare to suggest we evolved from animals, while "believers" on the other hand don't hesitate to endue upon themselves qualities of four legged beasts as traits (or figurative illustrations) of discipleship?
Stuff that makes one go, "hmmmm..."
Perhaps such analogies worked fine in olden times and in that whacky camel culture, but they do appear awkward and even wholly out-of-place in our era and culture.
Perhaps we require a more updating to such parables, along the lines of this "Onion" headline:
"Ant Farms Teach Children about Toil, Death"
Danny
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CM
personalities of sheep and goats aside..
JC said they hear his voice and follow,
they are herded, so to speak, by words,
and follow those words
the book, the epistle of the heart opens
follow...think about, consider,
recognize, and lose the fear
of taking a small step
in his direction
and fasten your seatbelt
it happens in the mind
takes time....
a building up
a twinkling of an eye
searching, undoing, rebuilding
a sound mind...that can hear...
listening for and to these words
these words will be recognized
cause it does apply today imo
He's talking in many ways i believe
i don't think he's ever stopped talking....
peace...love...a sound mind
it's there in us
some are not looking
some search and find
some follow but don't see
some search, find, see,
and follow
then comes the stewardship
love is the compass
love got you there...
joy, peace, gentleness
patience, temperance, meekness...
it's an uncharted map for you
but he's still leading
fear not cause
he will never leave or forsake you
he never has....
even when it feels like he has...
hope-the anchor of the soul
faith unleashed...slowly at times
fast as lightning before the thunder too
i think it's so much bigger then
this little set of words....
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think fish
Rascal, i truly enjoyed reading your first post on this thread. you wrote my thoughts precisely.
especially the last paragraph.
i could'nt have said it better
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def59
Posted July 15, 2005 18:23
Fish
your tagline:
if there is a god he's got a lot of explaining to do.
-Dennis Leary
What's the context of Leary's statement and what do you think he means?
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think fish
def.
i think it says what it means,and means what it says.
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def59
What does he have to explain anyway?
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rascal
Thanks Fish, I think that this is why the abuse of people through scripture and spiritual *authority*
is such an dispicable thing.
It gives God a HUGE credibility problem when he above all things is the one that we should feel safe trusting.
People feel like we oughtta be pleased to have learned scripture....but what the hell good did it do if we do not feel that we can safely trust the author?
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