But without a multitude of counselors a person will soon be lost.
It's a together thing, noone is alone in this..
Unless they choose to be then the trouble begins like in VPW's case. A person who saw some truth but refused to put it to the test with others who also are being instructed by the Lord Himself.
Yeah afraid to see that there may be more, Bigger wider deeper truths to be seen rather then the small inkling of light that passed his way.
Like some one said on another forum. Submit your cake into the cake contest. And see what other cakes have that yours does not.
I ain't afraid to put my thoughts out there. I don't care if I get attacked. Even if one person holds a candle of light in my direction in the midst of such adversity, I believe I just might be able to see it. So for me it's worth a shot to put my heart on the line.
It's saddening that I see so little interest in the truth anymore...noone even at least taking a look...
Depends on your perspective I guess. And as an aside, just how do you know your particular superstition is "The Truth"?
To me it's saddening to see grown adults still clinging to ancient notions of invisible beings guiding the planets and interacting with the inhabitants, despite any concrete evidence that any such thing exists.
If the God of the Bible is indeed an ever-present reality, He sure knows how to keep a low profile.
CM, It takes a long time to get over abuse, be it physical, mental, spiritual.....some never heal, the damage wrought is irreperable.......
As with any other form of abuse, most whom have endured the betrayal, have difficulty trusting period, be it God or man, anyone claiming to represent truth.
Our innocence is the casualty of the betrayal by those who claimed to have the *truth*
Our trust in God is shattered, because we are left wondering how on earth a caring God could have allowed this to happen to people who meerly wanted to know him.
It's been very enlightening. Don't trust anyone, only consider. Common sense and the Christ inside will do the rest.
BINGO!!! That is the very same conclusion that I have been led to....
I am humbled that God appears to be willing to work within parameters that I can accept, understanding my aprehensions ..... forgiving my lack of trust...
I attend North Point Community Church in Alpharetta, Ga and my heart often burns within me as God's Word is taught by Andy Stanley. Check out http://www.northpoint.org and give it a listen if you feel so inclined.
It's saddening that I see so little interest in the truth anymore...noone even at least taking a look...
Depends on your perspective I guess. And as an aside, just how do you know your particular superstition is "The Truth"?
To me it's saddening to see grown adults still clinging to ancient notions of invisible beings guiding the planets and interacting with the inhabitants, despite any concrete evidence that any such thing exists.
If the God of the Bible is indeed an ever-present reality, He sure knows how to keep a low profile.
Geo
I don't think you would know the truth if it came up and frenched you on Main Street. You are so angry and bitter against the notion of
God as if He let you down. You seem to have put your trust in men and got burned.
And now I take it that you are enanmored with science and its explanations. So again,you are putting your trust in man and will be ever disappointed.
I have seen the hand of God in this world. His profile and fame are ever growing.
I don't think you would know the truth if it came up and frenched you on Main Street.
An expression such as that certainly doesn't come across as a convincing testimony of one having attained a position any closer to "truth".
Whatever doubts and pain Geo may have conveyed at least comes across here as "real".
I would think the highest God would find the doubters and the naysayers far more stimulating and refreshing than the thought of being eternally surrounded about by a multitude of brown-nosing, self-righteous "yes men".
CM I think these are vaulable questions you are asking. Here is some of my perspective....
CM: Anyone remember how thrilling it was to see things in the scripture that they never saw before?........ I do remember and still have the same thrill when I go to the scriptures and God opens them up to me! Resently I watched the ROA 72 and what it brought back was we were priviledged to a moment in time that can never be replayed.
CM:D-->oes everyone think those days are over with?..... Yes, as in moments in time as far as like births and life moments that specific moment like we had in that specific realm is over. But with God all things are new, and the thrill and excitment of new beginings never has to end. So it is a yes as far as the way it was, no as far as God can make all things exciting and new.
CM:Just think if the Lord Himself was showing you the scriptures. Would your heart burn within you?........ Mine still does! When I take time with all the tools I did learn via the ministry I see amazing things and get tons of answers from God himself via the written and the spirit of God from within. Ours is a unquie time of Grace where we can walk in newness of life each and every day and see what God has in his heart for us!
CM: Or would you think that it's just another scam... There is no scam with God! He is true it is man and his prejuices and old man nature that puts the slant on that stuff and it becomes a scam. But as it says...
Phil 3:13-15
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you............God shall reveal even this unto YOU!!!!
CM:It's saddening that I see so little interest in the truth anymore...noone even at least taking a look... I know many people still seeking the truth individually but we are now trying just to walk in newness of life in the realm of being in mid-life and living our lives and how can we be effective in the realms we live in now.
CM: I suppose I understand a bit-so much abuse of people. So little love. Remember I was there too...
You are God's best and with prayer God will open your heart to the scriptures and to people who are likeminded as you! I do not go to a fellowship, for I cannot not at this time in my life find one that is not religious and wants to live under the guise of a sudo leader. But my heart still burns with the scriptures. And I love my relationship with God today more than I ever did in The Way. I have no anomosity toward anyone, and am thankful I lived it and I went through the gamet to Way Corps and staff. but I would not give up good or bad times to have what I have with God today!! But it has taken much prayer and searching the scriptures. But it is worth the work. I pray you find the answers to your questions for your heart! God bless!
I've never had it leave. Stuff still thrills my heart and soul. The Holy Spirit is still alive and works in an individual who seeks, even though TWI is no more.
The great majority of being able to live the more abundant life really all depends on exactly who YOU decide to fellowship with. Jesus Christ has not only called us to the more abundant life through him, but he has also called us to fellowship with one another.
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
What it all boils down to is just who do you want to fellowship with? Do you want to fellowship with the goats or with the sheep? Now I can't speak for you or for anyone else. But for me, in my spiritual walk I want to have the sheep around me - not the goats.
Now if you're a goat, I will fellowship with you - but only if decide to become a sheep. If you're truly someone who is listening to God and His Word, then you will always have the opportunity to become a sheep. But if you choose to be not anything but a goat, (how does one know who is a goat instead of a sheep?) the goats will always be hurting other sheep.
Here is the way to tell someone who is a goat from the sheep. Everytime you try to share something from God's Word with them they go ... but(t) ... but(t) ... but(t) ... but(t). That's exactly what a goat does - using their horns to but(t) others. You see they can't receive the Word of God. They can't receive any exhortation in order to help themselves in the things of God. They can't receive any correction from the Word.
Well I have let the goats hang around me before, but then it was only to "milk" them. I just milk the goats. I just don't allow them in anything I do to do anything - I just milk them - that's what I do. Now when it comes to wolves, well, that is a completely different type of critter than a goat. The bible talks about the wolves - those that come in sheeps clothing. I treat them totally different. Now wolves don't come looking like a wolf ... a wolf comes just as the bible says, dressed in sheep's clothing ... looking like a sheep. And boy, they look really nice you know. They usually come from one of two places. They come from the outside and come in, or they can even come from the inside. As Paul warned in Acts 20:28-30 even of your own selves would wolves would arise - speaking PERVERSE THINGS TO DRAW AWAY DISCISPLES AFTER THEMSELVES.
Wolves will not spare the flock. Wolves are devouring animals - they devour sheep. If you are someone who is a sheep, for a wolf - you are lunch! Now whenever wolves come around, I just shoot 'em. Not physically mind you, but spiritually. How do I do that? I do that by not allowing them into my fellowship - that is with my fellowship with the sheep. I just tell them - LOOK, YOUR NOT WELCOME AROUND HERE!
The vast majority of people in my fellowship are sheep. In most fellowships it is this way, unless there is not a pastor there to shepherd them - just a hireling. In John chapter 10 Jesus said a shepherd will give his life for the sheep. Oh yeah, he'll take a number of bullets! He will also take people not understanding him to protect the flock. But a hireling, as the bible says, when he sees a wolf coming he flees! Why? Because he doesn't have the well-being of the sheep in his heart - basically he's just there for the paycheck.
Well, Jesus drove them all out. In Matthew 21:12 Jesus drove some of them out because if you want to have a clean fellowship you have got to get some things out of your fellowship. That's what you've got to do today - you got to get somethings out of the church. Now I AM not talking about people here. What I am talking about are THE THINGS that hang onto people - the things that people won't let go of. The thing I am trying to do in my church is keep a clean fellowship. Now if people want to hang and hold onto certain things that are not of God then it's those people that have to go. We're not against any person per se, or is this a "personality confict". What we're talking about is certain spirits trying to get into our church and into our fellowship.
In verse 13 of Matthew 21 Jesus said: "And he said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer, but ye have made it a den of theives." The den of theives is a reference to Satan, as John 10:10 says he comes to steal, kill and destroy. That's what Jesus was talking about - demons were attempting to get into the temple of God to steal, kill and destroy. (Huh? you say?) Well, Jesus drove them all out. And what was the result?
Matthew 21:14
And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.
The bottom line is, if you want to see a move of God then you are going to have to get some things out and also keep some things out of your fellowship with certain people. That is why the Holy Spirit will not move in some places - even in certain Christian places because of what "so called" Christian people have allowed in. The Holy Spirit is not going to fellowship with wrong spirits. He will not bless a house that allows any of those spirits to operate in the same house. Well if Jesus didn't allow any of that, then why should you?
The bible says in 1 Corinthians 10 - it says, come ye out from among them, be ye separtate saith the lord. Verse 21 says, "Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils." If you got problems manifesting the more abundant life Jesus Christ came to make available, then just take a closer look at who you are choosing to fellowship with.
... Ie., in short, a 'godly' form of segregation, as it were. -->
That's OK. Speaking for myself, I'm not into getting onto that bandwagon or signing that 'green card', thank you very much. I like hanging out with a wider variety of REAL people.
Besides, goats have never hurt any sheep. Neither has any form of honest criticism and demand for proof ever hurt anyone who is in an honest search of the truth. Hell, those two groups of people are but one and the same!
On the contrary, it has been those (usually in positions of power and leadership) who squelched any and all dissent and doubt who enslaved 'the sheep', as it were.
The great majority of being able to live the more abundant life really all depends on exactly who YOU decide to fellowship with.
quote:
What it all boils down to is just who do you want to fellowship with?
quote:
The bottom line is, if you want to see a move of God then you are going to have to get some things out and also keep some things out of your fellowship with certain people.
i hate to say it, but none of the scriptures you quote justify these "laws/principles/precepts/proverbs" you've declared here, wth
(sorry, not to pick on you, but you provided a pretty clear example for my rant)
i will even go as far as to say that this kind of "prime directive" you've described leads to further isolation, suffering, depression, anger, fear, and a variety of basic hellish states of mind (both in and out of the church/grouping)
and if the claim of some "doctrinal behavioral purities" are taken far enough, it is how we get things like the KKK and Nazis (and those similar aspects of TWI)
"The Path" of Jesus is not one of getting pleasure and comfort and safety and blessings by surrounding yourself with friends and like-minded folks...
this, any people in any religion in any country in any point in history can do, and has done, a thousand thousand times over, and quite darn well at times too
to take things and draw lines and generally seek mostly to bless yourself and "friendlies" is NOT the same as being "blessed of God," but rather, to be "blessed of men"...namely, by oneself and buddies by "fleshly versions of a name," such as "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ" (neither of which, according to scripture, are not his "real" name anyway))
and this "Christ" is strongly about "newness" and "refreshing," full of "ways" to both endure and transcend and lessen the suffering of yourself and others, expanding our ability to embrace "aliens" of our own "natural" self
but there is nothing new or revealing in what you say here, as it pertains to human spirituallity.
not really. just a different name. a different time. a different language set. a different context
you've stated no principle, or precept or other directive that is not plain ole anthropological religious isolationism and group-huggingness (just about every history of every race of man is full of such "burying one's head in a doctrinal group-think "church" cave, often for survival, and often for identity and pride and "sacred" ways to make one's group somehow part of immortallity. like all the peons laughing in a boardroom only when the CEO laughs, only this "CEO" is an ideology, not always a person)
and to generally vilify "others" (outside of your circle of "friendlies") as "demon-ridden" (and thus needing to be saved by your "pure group" doctrines) is to go spiritually backwards from where you claim to be. not, not just a 100 years, or 2000 years. i am talking backwards at least 3 thousand years plus...back to when "race and clan and city-state" were the "cutting edge" of human evolution. and if we keep it up, the world will quite naturally become more violent and oppressive in the name of "Jesus" or "Allah" or whomever. the number of "little ideological box units" will grow into a heaping mountain of smaller isolations. like millions of "birds in cages." a thousand people in the same room, same lines, trying not to look in each other's eyes for fear of "demons" (unless your a (fill in group), of course)
again, i hate to say this, but what you have described here as a way of life, seems like a way for spiritual growth to more or less end for as long as your kind of injunction is followed.
(unless we are talking of a "spiritual growth" that is merely trying to learn how to function as a supportive group...which it is, but as "milk," not any kind of meat to handle most of the deeper problems and questions in life)
but it when such valuable "milk" is pawned off as "meat" that we stop and possibly decrease "spiritual growth"...where we we have really turned growth around and headed backwards with "spiritual" things
there are simply many many more effective "ways" to enable "spiritual deliverences" outside of the "us versus them" methods of "join us or perish" fundamentalism
btw, i think "the sheep" were widely known to be feminine creatures, and the goats "masculine"
and sexuallity and group behaviour of animals might have something (a lot) to do with the parable (as it often seems to)
capability is a key, it is not just some arbitrary selection of duality to make a point about good guys versus bad guys
;)-->
sorry for the derail, CM
but i think this very dominant doctrine of "isolation from demons" for the sake of procuring one's own "blessings from God"
is a part of what has led to the flattening of so much of our lost love of "the truth,"
and so has become a kind of "demon" of its own, if you will
("the truth," to me, being that "endless search" for greater deepness and understanding of what simply is...for there really is no "end" to this well)
no, not a mythical insidious monster to be cast out of our persons
but one of those "gosh derned sumabytching" knots and tangles to be combed out of the strands of our awareness and experience
one of those "mysteries" thats got us fussing and hollerin and cursing all sorts of "other" things
i mean, i see the world's population exploding,
yet people are growing more and more afraid of other people because of "it all boils down to" doctrines like this
this is a big problem if the "majority rules" are suffering from this isolationist knot,
even if the same kind of knot structure is called by many names
(Household of God, patriotism, the jones family, stoners, atheists, vegans, etc...)
in "seeking only pleasure among friends," we have lost much of our creative imagination for universal selfless good, it seems
(which universal selfish good is more "Christlike," imo),
and have mostly reserved this imaginative creative spiritual energy for advancing and perfecting all kinds of sub-doctrines of selfish containment and self-imprisonment and self-preservation.
cuz "in the end," there is no true "other," except relatively
this demonization of "otherness" is "shadow-boxing" and a waste of time
(but another thing me must also learn not to do by doing it til we realize how futile it is..in other words, please get on with the basic lesson of the value of groupness and get thru it, and in this life, soon, please, for the sake of all of us)
The universal celebration of "other" as a part of a larger whole (regardless of ethnic/evolutionary spiritual heritage) will literally transform us on the inside, simply by practicing such a way. by playing at such ways. finding ways to see it and know it and experience it as a child would.
Who knows? With practice, our love for "the truth" might just turn inside out again and continue on its merry way.
i dunno, perhaps a large part of what "it" "all comes down to" is that we've simply lost our sense of humor regarding spiritual inquiry and evalutation. in so many modern upbringings, we never do learn how to play with/in spirit as a child would play with a toy in a toy box...with a sense of awe and wonder. and if this idea makes you cringe...that "cringe" is pretty much what i am talking about
Who knows? With practice, our love for "the truth" might just turn inside out again and continue on its merry way.
i dunno, perhaps we've simply lost our sense of humor regarding spiritual inquiry and evalutation.
sirguessalot,
~~~
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cher u bims and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
When Jesus the Christ teaches me by the holy spirit the Christ in me it still blesses my heart
Now I used learn things by teaching myself by manly ways like research but I now turn to the Christ in me
Just like that old verse I used so many times
2 Tim 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
I believe the word study is more a form of meditate or the study a verse to the point you are meditating on it
look at some verses on meditate
Josh 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
The reason I believe this is first because I heard it in pray and second Jesus Christ words
Luke 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
These verse and more led me to think the word study not to take it back to Greek or Hebrew but take it back to the holy spirit teaching us the
understanding of the verse or part of life clearer
But this is just me and God may show you from a diff point of truth
What I am talking about is like he may teach you more what a workman is
And if we put all points of truth together we really have something
Yes I believe together we get closer if we work together
I get this humorous imagery in my mind of the Great Deity looking out at humanity through a two-way mirror, with a few of us humanoids on the other side standing still amidst the hustle 'n bustle - gazing back at the mirror trying to "see God" on the other side...with God muttering to Himself, "Well don't just ****in' stand there in front of the mirror! Move around a little bit - Live Life!"
It's a goofy scenario, I must confess...and I don't know if there's anything to this or not, but it's pretty damn funny just the same ...
WTH, your post indicates a significant lack of understanding concerning the nature of goats and sheep.... to the point of being really funny.
There isn`t ANY critter more hard headed ... that enjoys head bu tting everything in sight more than an old sheep....lol(I can say this having raised both).
Truth be known, goats are quite a bit more intellegent, much cleaner, hardier, more fun, and more amenable, than an old hard headed sheep.
Sheep STINK too! Sheep need constant supervision because they cannot look after themselves, where as a goat is much more adaptable and hardy....
You have aligned yourself with the sheep and all of their stench, without an honest understanding of goats and their fine attributes.....
I suppose that could be an indication as well of your understanding of fellowship and keys to spiritual growth as well...
Ya might want wanna research both topics a little more thoroughly, you might be suprised at what you discover while looking around with your head up, eyes wide open .... rather than head down eyes fixed to the ground, seeking whom you may bu tt heads with next :-)
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Abigail
How do you know he is not?
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CM
He is Abigail, He is.
But without a multitude of counselors a person will soon be lost.
It's a together thing, noone is alone in this..
Unless they choose to be then the trouble begins like in VPW's case. A person who saw some truth but refused to put it to the test with others who also are being instructed by the Lord Himself.
Yeah afraid to see that there may be more, Bigger wider deeper truths to be seen rather then the small inkling of light that passed his way.
Like some one said on another forum. Submit your cake into the cake contest. And see what other cakes have that yours does not.
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CM
I ain't afraid to put my thoughts out there. I don't care if I get attacked. Even if one person holds a candle of light in my direction in the midst of such adversity, I believe I just might be able to see it. So for me it's worth a shot to put my heart on the line.
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CM
Some of the things I saw in the scriptures didn't agree with what was being taught by twi.
As it turns out those things seem to have stood the test of time. And not only that but further strenghtened and expanded as the years go by.
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CM
Noone is above anyone else.
We stand on equal footing.
Jesus Christ the chief cornerstone.
Without him we would be nothing.
Knowledge puffeth up but love edifies.
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George Aar
Depends on your perspective I guess. And as an aside, just how do you know your particular superstition is "The Truth"?
To me it's saddening to see grown adults still clinging to ancient notions of invisible beings guiding the planets and interacting with the inhabitants, despite any concrete evidence that any such thing exists.
If the God of the Bible is indeed an ever-present reality, He sure knows how to keep a low profile.
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rascal
Chalk up one more count against twi.....
CM, It takes a long time to get over abuse, be it physical, mental, spiritual.....some never heal, the damage wrought is irreperable.......
As with any other form of abuse, most whom have endured the betrayal, have difficulty trusting period, be it God or man, anyone claiming to represent truth.
Our innocence is the casualty of the betrayal by those who claimed to have the *truth*
Our trust in God is shattered, because we are left wondering how on earth a caring God could have allowed this to happen to people who meerly wanted to know him.
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CM
Yeah....rascal....
Personally after I left I wanted to find out why it didn't work. Cause I know there is a God. It's been quite an adventure and continues to be.
It's been very enlightening. Don't trust anyone, only consider. Common sense and the Christ inside will do the rest.
George, ya know - no matter what you think, I still think you are a good guy.
No matter what one believes, ultimately it will lead to God. Cause there is only one God the Creater...
Love Always
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rascal
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chwester
I attend North Point Community Church in Alpharetta, Ga and my heart often burns within me as God's Word is taught by Andy Stanley. Check out http://www.northpoint.org and give it a listen if you feel so inclined.
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Geo
I don't think you would know the truth if it came up and frenched you on Main Street. You are so angry and bitter against the notion of
God as if He let you down. You seem to have put your trust in men and got burned.
And now I take it that you are enanmored with science and its explanations. So again,you are putting your trust in man and will be ever disappointed.
I have seen the hand of God in this world. His profile and fame are ever growing.
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TheInvisibleDan
An expression such as that certainly doesn't come across as a convincing testimony of one having attained a position any closer to "truth".
Whatever doubts and pain Geo may have conveyed at least comes across here as "real".
I would think the highest God would find the doubters and the naysayers far more stimulating and refreshing than the thought of being eternally surrounded about by a multitude of brown-nosing, self-righteous "yes men".
Danny
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maptl
CM I think these are vaulable questions you are asking. Here is some of my perspective....
CM: Anyone remember how thrilling it was to see things in the scripture that they never saw before?........ I do remember and still have the same thrill when I go to the scriptures and God opens them up to me! Resently I watched the ROA 72 and what it brought back was we were priviledged to a moment in time that can never be replayed.
CM
:D-->oes everyone think those days are over with?..... Yes, as in moments in time as far as like births and life moments that specific moment like we had in that specific realm is over. But with God all things are new, and the thrill and excitment of new beginings never has to end. So it is a yes as far as the way it was, no as far as God can make all things exciting and new.
CM:Just think if the Lord Himself was showing you the scriptures. Would your heart burn within you?........ Mine still does! When I take time with all the tools I did learn via the ministry I see amazing things and get tons of answers from God himself via the written and the spirit of God from within. Ours is a unquie time of Grace where we can walk in newness of life each and every day and see what God has in his heart for us!
CM: Or would you think that it's just another scam... There is no scam with God! He is true it is man and his prejuices and old man nature that puts the slant on that stuff and it becomes a scam. But as it says...
Phil 3:13-15
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you............God shall reveal even this unto YOU!!!!
CM:It's saddening that I see so little interest in the truth anymore...noone even at least taking a look... I know many people still seeking the truth individually but we are now trying just to walk in newness of life in the realm of being in mid-life and living our lives and how can we be effective in the realms we live in now.
CM: I suppose I understand a bit-so much abuse of people. So little love. Remember I was there too...
You are God's best and with prayer God will open your heart to the scriptures and to people who are likeminded as you! I do not go to a fellowship, for I cannot not at this time in my life find one that is not religious and wants to live under the guise of a sudo leader. But my heart still burns with the scriptures. And I love my relationship with God today more than I ever did in The Way. I have no anomosity toward anyone, and am thankful I lived it and I went through the gamet to Way Corps and staff. but I would not give up good or bad times to have what I have with God today!! But it has taken much prayer and searching the scriptures. But it is worth the work. I pray you find the answers to your questions for your heart! God bless!
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maptl
PS...CM, thank you because of your questions I read through all of Phil this morning and it defentely completed my day!!!!!
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Sunesis
I've never had it leave. Stuff still thrills my heart and soul. The Holy Spirit is still alive and works in an individual who seeks, even though TWI is no more.
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What The Hay
The great majority of being able to live the more abundant life really all depends on exactly who YOU decide to fellowship with. Jesus Christ has not only called us to the more abundant life through him, but he has also called us to fellowship with one another.
1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
What it all boils down to is just who do you want to fellowship with? Do you want to fellowship with the goats or with the sheep? Now I can't speak for you or for anyone else. But for me, in my spiritual walk I want to have the sheep around me - not the goats.
Now if you're a goat, I will fellowship with you - but only if decide to become a sheep. If you're truly someone who is listening to God and His Word, then you will always have the opportunity to become a sheep. But if you choose to be not anything but a goat, (how does one know who is a goat instead of a sheep?) the goats will always be hurting other sheep.
Here is the way to tell someone who is a goat from the sheep. Everytime you try to share something from God's Word with them they go ... but(t) ... but(t) ... but(t) ... but(t). That's exactly what a goat does - using their horns to but(t) others. You see they can't receive the Word of God. They can't receive any exhortation in order to help themselves in the things of God. They can't receive any correction from the Word.
Well I have let the goats hang around me before, but then it was only to "milk" them. I just milk the goats. I just don't allow them in anything I do to do anything - I just milk them - that's what I do. Now when it comes to wolves, well, that is a completely different type of critter than a goat. The bible talks about the wolves - those that come in sheeps clothing. I treat them totally different. Now wolves don't come looking like a wolf ... a wolf comes just as the bible says, dressed in sheep's clothing ... looking like a sheep. And boy, they look really nice you know. They usually come from one of two places. They come from the outside and come in, or they can even come from the inside. As Paul warned in Acts 20:28-30 even of your own selves would wolves would arise - speaking PERVERSE THINGS TO DRAW AWAY DISCISPLES AFTER THEMSELVES.
Wolves will not spare the flock. Wolves are devouring animals - they devour sheep. If you are someone who is a sheep, for a wolf - you are lunch! Now whenever wolves come around, I just shoot 'em. Not physically mind you, but spiritually. How do I do that? I do that by not allowing them into my fellowship - that is with my fellowship with the sheep. I just tell them - LOOK, YOUR NOT WELCOME AROUND HERE!
The vast majority of people in my fellowship are sheep. In most fellowships it is this way, unless there is not a pastor there to shepherd them - just a hireling. In John chapter 10 Jesus said a shepherd will give his life for the sheep. Oh yeah, he'll take a number of bullets! He will also take people not understanding him to protect the flock. But a hireling, as the bible says, when he sees a wolf coming he flees! Why? Because he doesn't have the well-being of the sheep in his heart - basically he's just there for the paycheck.
Well, Jesus drove them all out. In Matthew 21:12 Jesus drove some of them out because if you want to have a clean fellowship you have got to get some things out of your fellowship. That's what you've got to do today - you got to get somethings out of the church. Now I AM not talking about people here. What I am talking about are THE THINGS that hang onto people - the things that people won't let go of. The thing I am trying to do in my church is keep a clean fellowship. Now if people want to hang and hold onto certain things that are not of God then it's those people that have to go. We're not against any person per se, or is this a "personality confict". What we're talking about is certain spirits trying to get into our church and into our fellowship.
In verse 13 of Matthew 21 Jesus said: "And he said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer, but ye have made it a den of theives." The den of theives is a reference to Satan, as John 10:10 says he comes to steal, kill and destroy. That's what Jesus was talking about - demons were attempting to get into the temple of God to steal, kill and destroy. (Huh? you say?) Well, Jesus drove them all out. And what was the result?
Matthew 21:14
And the blind and the lame came to him in the temple; and he healed them.
The bottom line is, if you want to see a move of God then you are going to have to get some things out and also keep some things out of your fellowship with certain people. That is why the Holy Spirit will not move in some places - even in certain Christian places because of what "so called" Christian people have allowed in. The Holy Spirit is not going to fellowship with wrong spirits. He will not bless a house that allows any of those spirits to operate in the same house. Well if Jesus didn't allow any of that, then why should you?
The bible says in 1 Corinthians 10 - it says, come ye out from among them, be ye separtate saith the lord. Verse 21 says, "Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils." If you got problems manifesting the more abundant life Jesus Christ came to make available, then just take a closer look at who you are choosing to fellowship with.
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GarthP2000
... Ie., in short, a 'godly' form of segregation, as it were.
-->
That's OK. Speaking for myself, I'm not into getting onto that bandwagon or signing that 'green card', thank you very much. I like hanging out with a wider variety of REAL people.
Besides, goats have never hurt any sheep. Neither has any form of honest criticism and demand for proof ever hurt anyone who is in an honest search of the truth. Hell, those two groups of people are but one and the same!
On the contrary, it has been those (usually in positions of power and leadership) who squelched any and all dissent and doubt who enslaved 'the sheep', as it were.
Besides, we are more than sheep. So much more.
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sirguessalot
plz permit a rant and ramble as i pop on by...
(bold is mine)
i hate to say it, but none of the scriptures you quote justify these "laws/principles/precepts/proverbs" you've declared here, wth
(sorry, not to pick on you, but you provided a pretty clear example for my rant)
i will even go as far as to say that this kind of "prime directive" you've described leads to further isolation, suffering, depression, anger, fear, and a variety of basic hellish states of mind (both in and out of the church/grouping)
and if the claim of some "doctrinal behavioral purities" are taken far enough, it is how we get things like the KKK and Nazis (and those similar aspects of TWI)
"The Path" of Jesus is not one of getting pleasure and comfort and safety and blessings by surrounding yourself with friends and like-minded folks...
this, any people in any religion in any country in any point in history can do, and has done, a thousand thousand times over, and quite darn well at times too
to take things and draw lines and generally seek mostly to bless yourself and "friendlies" is NOT the same as being "blessed of God," but rather, to be "blessed of men"...namely, by oneself and buddies by "fleshly versions of a name," such as "Jesus" or "Jesus Christ" (neither of which, according to scripture, are not his "real" name anyway))
and this "Christ" is strongly about "newness" and "refreshing," full of "ways" to both endure and transcend and lessen the suffering of yourself and others, expanding our ability to embrace "aliens" of our own "natural" self
but there is nothing new or revealing in what you say here, as it pertains to human spirituallity.
not really. just a different name. a different time. a different language set. a different context
you've stated no principle, or precept or other directive that is not plain ole anthropological religious isolationism and group-huggingness (just about every history of every race of man is full of such "burying one's head in a doctrinal group-think "church" cave, often for survival, and often for identity and pride and "sacred" ways to make one's group somehow part of immortallity. like all the peons laughing in a boardroom only when the CEO laughs, only this "CEO" is an ideology, not always a person)
and to generally vilify "others" (outside of your circle of "friendlies") as "demon-ridden" (and thus needing to be saved by your "pure group" doctrines) is to go spiritually backwards from where you claim to be. not, not just a 100 years, or 2000 years. i am talking backwards at least 3 thousand years plus...back to when "race and clan and city-state" were the "cutting edge" of human evolution. and if we keep it up, the world will quite naturally become more violent and oppressive in the name of "Jesus" or "Allah" or whomever. the number of "little ideological box units" will grow into a heaping mountain of smaller isolations. like millions of "birds in cages." a thousand people in the same room, same lines, trying not to look in each other's eyes for fear of "demons" (unless your a (fill in group), of course)
again, i hate to say this, but what you have described here as a way of life, seems like a way for spiritual growth to more or less end for as long as your kind of injunction is followed.
(unless we are talking of a "spiritual growth" that is merely trying to learn how to function as a supportive group...which it is, but as "milk," not any kind of meat to handle most of the deeper problems and questions in life)
but it when such valuable "milk" is pawned off as "meat" that we stop and possibly decrease "spiritual growth"...where we we have really turned growth around and headed backwards with "spiritual" things
there are simply many many more effective "ways" to enable "spiritual deliverences" outside of the "us versus them" methods of "join us or perish" fundamentalism
btw, i think "the sheep" were widely known to be feminine creatures, and the goats "masculine"
and sexuallity and group behaviour of animals might have something (a lot) to do with the parable (as it often seems to)
capability is a key, it is not just some arbitrary selection of duality to make a point about good guys versus bad guys
sorry for the derail, CM
but i think this very dominant doctrine of "isolation from demons" for the sake of procuring one's own "blessings from God"
is a part of what has led to the flattening of so much of our lost love of "the truth,"
and so has become a kind of "demon" of its own, if you will
("the truth," to me, being that "endless search" for greater deepness and understanding of what simply is...for there really is no "end" to this well)
no, not a mythical insidious monster to be cast out of our persons
but one of those "gosh derned sumabytching" knots and tangles to be combed out of the strands of our awareness and experience
one of those "mysteries" thats got us fussing and hollerin and cursing all sorts of "other" things
i mean, i see the world's population exploding,
yet people are growing more and more afraid of other people because of "it all boils down to" doctrines like this
this is a big problem if the "majority rules" are suffering from this isolationist knot,
even if the same kind of knot structure is called by many names
(Household of God, patriotism, the jones family, stoners, atheists, vegans, etc...)
in "seeking only pleasure among friends," we have lost much of our creative imagination for universal selfless good, it seems
(which universal selfish good is more "Christlike," imo),
and have mostly reserved this imaginative creative spiritual energy for advancing and perfecting all kinds of sub-doctrines of selfish containment and self-imprisonment and self-preservation.
cuz "in the end," there is no true "other," except relatively
this demonization of "otherness" is "shadow-boxing" and a waste of time
(but another thing me must also learn not to do by doing it til we realize how futile it is..in other words, please get on with the basic lesson of the value of groupness and get thru it, and in this life, soon, please, for the sake of all of us)
The universal celebration of "other" as a part of a larger whole (regardless of ethnic/evolutionary spiritual heritage) will literally transform us on the inside, simply by practicing such a way. by playing at such ways. finding ways to see it and know it and experience it as a child would.
Who knows? With practice, our love for "the truth" might just turn inside out again and continue on its merry way.
i dunno, perhaps a large part of what "it" "all comes down to" is that we've simply lost our sense of humor regarding spiritual inquiry and evalutation. in so many modern upbringings, we never do learn how to play with/in spirit as a child would play with a toy in a toy box...with a sense of awe and wonder. and if this idea makes you cringe...that "cringe" is pretty much what i am talking about
:)-->
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
sirguessalot,
~~~
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cher u bims and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
somewhere in Genesis
~~~
CM thread
The lost Love of the Truth
~~~
Regards
Song
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year2027
God first
Beloved CM
God bless your loving heart my dear friend
When Jesus the Christ teaches me by the holy spirit the Christ in me it still blesses my heart
Now I used learn things by teaching myself by manly ways like research but I now turn to the Christ in me
Just like that old verse I used so many times
2 Tim 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
I believe the word study is more a form of meditate or the study a verse to the point you are meditating on it
look at some verses on meditate
Josh 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
The reason I believe this is first because I heard it in pray and second Jesus Christ words
Luke 12:12 For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
These verse and more led me to think the word study not to take it back to Greek or Hebrew but take it back to the holy spirit teaching us the
understanding of the verse or part of life clearer
But this is just me and God may show you from a diff point of truth
What I am talking about is like he may teach you more what a workman is
And if we put all points of truth together we really have something
Yes I believe together we get closer if we work together
Now if I had not said it yet I loved your tread
thanks
with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy
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TheInvisibleDan
I get this humorous imagery in my mind of the Great Deity looking out at humanity through a two-way mirror, with a few of us humanoids on the other side standing still amidst the hustle 'n bustle - gazing back at the mirror trying to "see God" on the other side...with God muttering to Himself, "Well don't just ****in' stand there in front of the mirror! Move around a little bit - Live Life!"
It's a goofy scenario, I must confess...and I don't know if there's anything to this or not, but it's pretty damn funny just the same ...
Danny
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CM
thanks for the posts folks....
i been in other places recently and haven't returned yet but will...
the truth comes together in the mind
with or without a book
and mostly without
books are for learning
close them and graduate
into letting it come together
sirg...thanks...
song...yes...turns every-EVERY way
something to see when we see
things in other people
Danny-you help me beyond what i know i think
Roy...cool post
Love to all Always and Forever
i will cruise thru again soon....
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Yes, I do.
..."the scripture"... to me, is more than one kind of tree in the forest
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rascal
WTH, your post indicates a significant lack of understanding concerning the nature of goats and sheep.... to the point of being really funny.
There isn`t ANY critter more hard headed ... that enjoys head bu tting everything in sight more than an old sheep....lol(I can say this having raised both).
Truth be known, goats are quite a bit more intellegent, much cleaner, hardier, more fun, and more amenable, than an old hard headed sheep.
Sheep STINK too! Sheep need constant supervision because they cannot look after themselves, where as a goat is much more adaptable and hardy....
You have aligned yourself with the sheep and all of their stench, without an honest understanding of goats and their fine attributes.....
I suppose that could be an indication as well of your understanding of fellowship and keys to spiritual growth as well...
Ya might want wanna research both topics a little more thoroughly, you might be suprised at what you discover while looking around with your head up, eyes wide open .... rather than head down eyes fixed to the ground, seeking whom you may bu tt heads with next :-)
Just a thought....
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