WTH's rantings remind me of all the cut scenes that wound up on the cutting room floor from the flick "One Flew From the Cuckoo's Nest". They were too crazy even for that flick.
I'm through bothering with Darth, the Potato Head.
So we've gone from being an anti-Semit, a Neo-Nazi to a Potato Head, have we? Well, I'm sure you were just "speaking your mind" as a civilized person on clean paper in neat print.
But let's take one common concern for example: The worries many people feel about "The New World Order."
A great deal is embedded in this phrase, but simply put, it means that, in the eyes of many people, liberalism has been repackaged cleverly, yet is still plain old Communism in disguise. But why not say so in your own words? Just call a spade a spade.
But to be honest, if you want to make headway then don't present yourself as having come out of the gutter. There are enough graffiti people in this world already, as any bridge will tell you. Your only kidding yourself if you really think that "somebody" is going to be intimidated by "somebody else's" political slogans.
Interesting that this subject comes back up over the Jewish holy days, no?
Interesting that WTH has spent such an incredible amount of time reading this propaganda, eh?
It might even be believable to those who do not have Jewish relatives who were eye witnesses to what took place.
An arguement that only comes off sounding like: "Dont confuse me with the facts!" just because I find it unacceptable that someone who is born in Germany today doesn't even have the right to critically examine his or her own country's history? Yet one can deny the Holy Trinity, the Virgin Birth and even the Resurrection of Jesus Christ - but the so-called Holocaust has become a state-mandated article of faith to the point in which even the questioning of the manufacture of bars of soap and lampshades out of human tissue by the National Socialists has become a punishable offense for anybody who dares to question any absurd, incongruous aspect of their history. I know that wasn't something you really wanted to hear, was it? It is more convenient for you to remain confused by the facts.
But it is the Jews who have a very real problem. They have lied on a colossal scale. In the process they have deceived many of their own people as well as the world. Of course the political repercussions would be disastrous if the truth ever got out. That is the primarily reason why the "Holocaust Denial" laws exist in Germany and all over Europe today. Be grateful that you still live in the land of the First Amendment, because just about everywhere else you can be fired from your job, have your career destroyed and be turned into an unemployable social outcast. But you cannot be thrown into jail - at least not yet. That will have to wait until Michael Chertoff can classify "Holocaust Denial" as a form of intellectual terrorism. Then you can read Arthur Butz upside down while your hanging from your toes at Guantanamo Bay.
And if you really read what WTH is saying, the 9-11 terrorist attack isn't the fault of the terrorists, but the fault of those liars, who deceived the U.S. into supporting Israel.
Nevermind that the U.S. also gives vast amounts of money to the Palestinians. Nevermind that the U.S. gives vast amounts of money to other Muslim nations as well.
I find it very telling that WTH has such a beef against the United States support of Israel but offers not a single word of complaint about all the money we give to other countries.
WTH's little walk in the park here really does show what the appeal to holocaust denial really is..
in the face of evidence.. warehouses of shoes, the nazi's saved from the victims.. tons of HAIR.. I guess the nazi's needed to make something out of it..
clothes..
eye witnesses.. which sadly, are all dying off..
documentation of medical "experiments"..
and a person can have the one little "truth" that somehow the whole rest of the known world has been "deceived"..
must make a person pretty important, eh?
kinda like loy's inside "revelation" about the last pope coming to the new world to start another inquisition..
I believe the title of this thread is: "What gives Holocaust denial such an appeal?" Actually that is a very good question that very few people today have an answer for - and why is that?
Because the more appropiate question to ask is, why do people still need to believe in the Holocaust? Yep. WE need to believe the Nazi's murdered and exterminated 6 million Jews - despite the fact it has been proven to be both scientifically and even physically impossible for them to have done so. WE need to beleive that the Germans turned human beings into "human soap" and "human lampshades" - and by golly, we'll damn all those who dare to question any of our incongruent and absurd conclusions about it!
There will always be those people who try to lock the barn door long after the horse has bolted. Why is that? Because locking the barn door gives them a sense of security even though the "horse" is no longer there. Forget about talking "horse-sense" with them or even into any of them, because it's not about someone having any "horse-sense" anymore - what it's really about today is: whatever makes me feel secure! SO I BETTER BE SURE TO LOCK THAT BARN DOOR!
Yes, being and feeling secure is certainly one of our basic human needs. We all need to feel secure and have a certain sense of security. But the question that is hardly ever asked is - where does one derive their sense of security? Does your sense of security come from believing the truth. or does it come from believing a lie? If your sense of security comes from a lie, then you'll hang on to it and hold on to it like it was your daily bread. And that's the reason why some people's arguments never seem to die or go away, because behind that argument is usually a lie that helps them feel secure.
It was Jesus Christ who said, "Leave them alone, for they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, shall they not both fall into the ditch?" But nobody's listening or taking his advice too much at all. I know that for a fact, because people today are still pretty much stuck in the same old ditch that Jesus talked about over 2000 years ago. But one day you might wake up and realize that Jesus Christ indeed spoke the truth. You'll come to realize that when you see people who are still stuck in the same old arguments that they have had with one another and with their neighbor - day in and day out - day after day, week after week, year after year, and they have only gotten and gone nowhere. But let's forget about the fact that I'm still stuck in the same old ditch (the same old argument) that I've had with you and with my neighbor for decades. Let's not talk about me or focus solely upon me. Let's talk all about you, shall we? I wonder just how far we will go this time.
Well, I guess the horse must never have been there. Maybe there is no such a thing as a horse.
hmm.. "hey fella.. yeah you. wanna buy a barn, cheap? Don't remember exactly what it is for.. I'll even toss in a few oats. Can't have a barn without oats.."
Well, I guess the horse must never have been there. Maybe there is no such a thing as a horse.
hmm.. "hey fella.. yeah you. wanna buy a barn, cheap? Don't remember exactly what it is for.. I'll even toss in a few oats. Can't have a barn without oats.."
When Hell asked Hitler what he intended doing if he ever had full freedom of action against the Jews, his response was:
"If I am ever really in power, the destruction of the Jews will be my first and most important job. As soon as I have power, I shall have gallows after gallows erected, for example, in Munich on the Marienplatz-as many of them as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged one after another, and they will stay hanging until they stink. They will stay hanging as long as hygienically possible. As soon as they are untied, then the next group will follow and that will continue until the last Jew in Munich is exterminated. Exactly the same procedure will be followed in other cities until Germany is cleansed of the last Jew!"
Hitler Interview in the New York Staatszeitung, 1933.
"Why does the world shed crocodile’s tears over the richly merited fate of a small Jewish minority? … I ask Roosevelt, I ask the American people: Are you prepared to receive in your midst these well-poisoners of the German people and the universal spirit of Christianity? We would willingly give everyone of them a free steamer-ticket and a thousand-mark note for travelling expenses, if we could get rid of them."
Pardon me everyone; just thought these quotes deserved repeating.
Since WTF---err, WTH is so interested in authorities that speak the 'truth' re: revisionist history that debunks the Holocaust, here's one 'authority' that he forgot:
NEW YORK, Sept. 21 Columbia University's decision to invite the president of Iran to speak has brought outrage from U.S. officials and Jewish groups.
The critics include Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and other presidential candidates and the Anti-Defamation League, the New York Daily News reported.
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is coming to New York next week for the opening of the U.N. General Assembly session. Columbia President Lee Bollinger plans to introduce him when he speaks Monday night at the School of International and Public Affairs.
Critics say any speech from Ahmadinejad will be hate speech. He has questioned whether the Holocaust happened and said Israel should be "wiped off the map."
Yeah, yeah, I know. All those Jews are dismissing it as 'hate speech', yadayada, ... but this guy even wants to wipe those pesky Jews off the face of the map.
I believe the title of this thread is: "What gives Holocaust denial such an appeal?" Actually that is a very good question that very few people today have an answer for - and why is that?
[Here comes yet another misdirection off of the title, right after looking like he's going to
actually address it. However, this should surprise no one at this point.]
Because the more appropiate question to ask is, why do people still need to believe in the Holocaust?
[because it happened.
Why do people still need to believe the Declaration of Independence was issued in 1776?
Because it happened.
It would be unhealthy to deny the historical evidence of things proven beyond a REASONABLE
DOUBT to have happened.]
Yep. WE need to believe the Nazi's murdered and exterminated 6 million Jews - despite the fact it has been proven to be both scientifically and even physically impossible for them to have done so.
[it's been proven that it happened-therefore any claim that documented history
was "impossible" is error. There are eyewitnesses, there are confessions, there are
people-both Jews and non-Jews- who were imprisoned by the Nazis for extermination
and were rescued before the Nazis got around to killing that SPECIFIC person.
(I met one and saw his branded number. I'm inclined to accept his EYEWITNESS
TESTIMONY like they do in court. There's photographs and film evidence.
They found some of the bodies that weren't incinerated.
It's been proven beyond a REASONABLE doubt.]
WE need to beleive that the Germans turned human beings into "human soap" and "human lampshades" - and by golly, we'll damn all those who dare to question any of our incongruent and absurd conclusions about it!
Apparently,
some of us are so desperate to deny the historical facts of the Holocaust that they need to
completely make up a pretend position that the rest of us supposedly hold (a "strawman")
so they can try to look more reasonable compared to what we never claimed.
Has anyone here ever said anything about "human soap" and "human lampshades"
when discussing the millions of people the Nazis imprisoned, many of them for the "crime"
of being Jewish, and the subsequent execution BY the Nazis for that "crime"?
And yet, WTH keeps insisting we DID make such an absurd claim,
then suggest we are holding an absurd position for claiming it.
All to damn those who dare to accept the preponderance of the evidence and not ignore
it all in favour of a handful of tinfoil hat pseudo-experts who speak on matters they
are not trained in.]
Ok, get your GPS navigators ready, we're going to get lost now....]
There will always be those people who try to lock the barn door long after the horse has bolted. Why is that? Because locking the barn door gives them a sense of security even though the "horse" is no longer there. Forget about talking "horse-sense" with them or even into any of them, because it's not about someone having any "horse-sense" anymore - what it's really about today is: whatever makes me feel secure! SO I BETTER BE SURE TO LOCK THAT BARN DOOR!
Yes, being and feeling secure is certainly one of our basic human needs. We all need to feel secure and have a certain sense of security. But the question that is hardly ever asked is - where does one derive their sense of security? Does your sense of security come from believing the truth. or does it come from believing a lie? If your sense of security comes from a lie, then you'll hang on to it and hold on to it like it was your daily bread. And that's the reason why some people's arguments never seem to die or go away, because behind that argument is usually a lie that helps them feel secure.
It was Jesus Christ who said, "Leave them alone, for they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, shall they not both fall into the ditch?" But nobody's listening or taking his advice too much at all. I know that for a fact, because people today are still pretty much stuck in the same old ditch that Jesus talked about over 2000 years ago. But one day you might wake up and realize that Jesus Christ indeed spoke the truth. You'll come to realize that when you see people who are still stuck in the same old arguments that they have had with one another and with their neighbor - day in and day out - day after day, week after week, year after year, and they have only gotten and gone nowhere. But let's forget about the fact that I'm still stuck in the same old ditch (the same old argument) that I've had with you and with my neighbor for decades. Let's not talk about me or focus solely upon me. Let's talk all about you, shall we? I wonder just how far we will go this time.
[Can anyone find ANY relevance to the last few paragraphs,
concerning why WTH finds it necessary to deny the Holocaust?
It's a real simple question, WTH.
Is this fake or do you just really not care about what happened to all these people?
He really doesn't care about what happened to all those people,
and if he has to claim it's fake to not care about them, he will,
but in the meantime, he's just going to pretend you didn't ask him.
Columbia President Lee Bollinger plans to introduce him when he speaks Monday night at the School of International and Public Affairs.
I understand all of this nice "let's get along in the world" kinda thing.. and I suppose the good President wants to open some dialogue.. but what's the point if it's "dialog" that can only be described as one group at another's throat..
:blink:
where one person's "grievance" is the fact of the mere existence of the other party..
doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense, at least to me..
what's the guy gonna do.. get behind the podium.. recite some poetry, "how shall I exterminate thee, let me count the ways.." ?
Who knows.. maybe it's a good thing. Give the guy enough room and freedom to froth.. maybe he'll choke himself on it..
sometimes the worst thing you can do to somebody is to give them exactly what they want..
if it makes any difference.. the "thought police" that one poster refers to.. most of them I've read WANT the other side to be able to express their opinions without legal consequences.
The arguments are so uneducated, so inane.. they're hardly worth allowing them the "dignity" to become some kind of martyr for a half baked cause. That was what kinda solidified da ministry when the deprogrammers were running amock..
"we MUST be right, da debil is fighting us.."
Maybe that's the appeal to being a Holocaust denier.. a person can be a martyr.. toss their academic integrity and credibility to the wind, while a group of wide eyed followers fawn over the person, for being so "bold" or "noble(?)".. such "selflessness"..
Has anyone here ever said anything about "human soap" and "human lampshades" when discussing the millions of people the Nazis imprisoned, many of them for the "crime" of being Jewish, and the subsequent execution BY the Nazis for that "crime"?
And yet, WTH keeps insisting we DID make such an absurd claim, then suggest we are holding an absurd position for claiming it.
I never said anybody here ever made that claim. The fact remains however: that is indeed a claim people have made regarding the holocaust as to what Nazi Germany did to the Jews. I was simply pointing out a fact I believe many people here (and also people out in the world) are probably not aware of. I am not claiming anybody here ever made this claim, regardless of what "you claim" I said. Gee, for the "intellectual type of person" you want to portray yourself to others, I certainly thought you were able to read better than that.
HOWEVER ... if I were going to insisit upon anyone here making any kind of absurd claim about the holocaust, then that would be the same claim many people out in the world (those who are not GSC members) have already made and are still making. What claim is that? It is the claim that 6 million Jews were exterminated by Nazi Germany in the manner that "people claim" they were. The "Holocaust deniers" have already respond to that particular claim with:
"It has been proven both scientfically and physically impossible to exterminate 6 million Jews in the manner that "people claim" Nazi Germany did."
I realize I have repeated myself, but differently - unlike the "pro-Holocaust" people regarding "their claims". AS YOU YOURSELF SO APTLY PUT IT FOR THEM: when discussing the millions of people the Nazis imprisoned, many of them for the "crime" of being Jewish, and the subsequent execution BY the Nazis for that "crime" ... etc., etc., etc.
Yes sir. People everywhere (not just here at GSC) are holding onto that "Holocaust" claim as if it were the truth - just as if it were their daily bread. The Holocaust is not true. The Holocaust is more like this "song" some people started a very long, long time ago. What kind of song is it?
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
(the second verse is the same as the first) ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
I never said anybody here ever made that claim. The fact remains however: that is indeed a claim people have made regarding the holocaust as to what Nazi Germany did to the Jews. I was simply pointing out a fact I believe many people here (and also people out in the world) are probably not aware of. I am not claiming anybody here ever made this claim, regardless of what "you claim" I said. Gee, for the "intellectual type of person" you want to portray yourself to others, I certainly thought you were able to read better than that.
You made no exception whatsoever. We addressed WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP and did not pretend you hold
positions you don't. You just tossed that in and PRETENDED there's no connection with you saying that-
in MORE THAN ONE POST- and any posts you're responding to.
I'm well-read enough to know when someone's trying to INSINUATE a connection between two things.
HOWEVER ... if I were going to insisit upon anyone here making any kind of absurd claim about the holocaust, then that would be the same claim many people out in the world (those who are not GSC members) have already made and are still making. What claim is that? It is the claim that 6 million Jews were exterminated by Nazi Germany in the manner that "people claim" they were. The "Holocaust deniers" have already respond to that particular claim with:
"It has been proven both scientfically and physically impossible to exterminate 6 million Jews in the manner that "people claim" Nazi Germany did."
I'm aware they make that Holocaust deniers make that claim of their own.
I'm also aware the evidence doesn't support their claim.
Furthermore,
one of the major issues, I've noticed, you've been ducking.
That is,
do you believe SOME Jews were exterminated by Hitler and his Nazis during World War II,
whether that was 100,000 or 1 million or some other number,
or are you claiming there was no concerted effort to round up and kill Jews and other minorities
in Germany during World War II by Nazis as directed by Hitler?
Personally,
I think your persistent refusal to address this from ANY angle is quite telling.
If you DID believe that SOME were killed but the numbers were inflated,
you'd sound less nonsensical to the average poster, and stand to gain by posting it.
If you believe that there was NO such effort, then you only stand to look silly in the face of
all the photographic evidence, eyewitness accounts, and confessions from people who were
there in one form or another, so you stand to lose by posting THAT.
Therefore, ignoring this perfectly reasonable question, and changing the subject,
is quite telling on its own. After all, we didn't presume you held EITHER position, but you
must hold ONE of them- since you've rejected
"the accounts everyone ELSE hold as accurate ARE accurate".
I realize I have repeated myself, but differently - unlike the "pro-Holocaust" people regarding "their claims". AS YOU YOURSELF SO APTLY PUT IT FOR THEM: when discussing the millions of people the Nazis imprisoned, many of them for the "crime" of being Jewish, and the subsequent execution BY the Nazis for that "crime" ... etc., etc., etc.
Yes sir. People everywhere (not just here at GSC) are holding onto that "Holocaust" claim as if it were the truth - just as if it were their daily bread. The Holocaust is not true. The Holocaust is more like this "song" some people started a very long, long time ago. What kind of song is it?
Ok, so are you saying that there WAS no roundup of Jews and other minorities in Nazi Germany
AT ALL, let alone executions of them for being minorities of their particular sort?
Or are you just intending to prevaricate and pretend you said "yes" or "no" whenever it suits your whims?
Yes sir. People everywhere (not just here at GSC) are holding onto that "Holocaust" claim as if it were the truth - just as if it were their daily bread.
Maybe it SHOULD be.
If a person can't accept the darker side of human nature for what it is, how can one enjoy the lighter..
Re: Sunesis' link referencing "The Bitch Of Buchenwald"
I'm no expert on Jewish law, but it is my understanding that a Jewish person( at least at that period of time) would never voluntarily tattoo himself as it is a violation of Jewish law.
This is why it was so disgraceful for a prisoner to have to be subjected to the "numbering" tattoos.
They were like cattle bing branded, in the eyes of the camp administrators, but the severity of the issue was much deeper and complex for those being tattooed.
The conclusion I deduce from this evidence is that these camps did not inter Jewish people only.
Use that to adjust the numbers if it makes any difference.
To me, it does not.
Growing up, I knew kids whose parents and grandparents had spent time in these camps.
And yes, I met many of them personally, though i can tell you they did NOT openly discuss what they had endured.
Some had "abbreviated" families.( Is that a nice enough way to say they had lost family members?)
Saying this part of history has been fabricated, is to say that my memories of childhood are all an illusion.
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Catcup
Absolutely.
Catcup
This was exactly my experience. I sat in the same meetings and heard Martindale make the same exclamation: That the Jews of today are no more Jews than the Apache Indians. And yes, the Holocaust wa
Catcup
A slippery slope indeed, Tref.
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What The Hey
So we've gone from being an anti-Semit, a Neo-Nazi to a Potato Head, have we? Well, I'm sure you were just "speaking your mind" as a civilized person on clean paper in neat print.
But let's take one common concern for example: The worries many people feel about "The New World Order."
A great deal is embedded in this phrase, but simply put, it means that, in the eyes of many people, liberalism has been repackaged cleverly, yet is still plain old Communism in disguise. But why not say so in your own words? Just call a spade a spade.
But to be honest, if you want to make headway then don't present yourself as having come out of the gutter. There are enough graffiti people in this world already, as any bridge will tell you. Your only kidding yourself if you really think that "somebody" is going to be intimidated by "somebody else's" political slogans.
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Abigail
Interesting that this subject comes back up over the Jewish holy days, no?
Interesting that WTH has spent such an incredible amount of time reading this propaganda, eh?
It might even be believable to those who do not have Jewish relatives who were eye witnesses to what took place.
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What The Hey
An arguement that only comes off sounding like: "Dont confuse me with the facts!" just because I find it unacceptable that someone who is born in Germany today doesn't even have the right to critically examine his or her own country's history? Yet one can deny the Holy Trinity, the Virgin Birth and even the Resurrection of Jesus Christ - but the so-called Holocaust has become a state-mandated article of faith to the point in which even the questioning of the manufacture of bars of soap and lampshades out of human tissue by the National Socialists has become a punishable offense for anybody who dares to question any absurd, incongruous aspect of their history. I know that wasn't something you really wanted to hear, was it? It is more convenient for you to remain confused by the facts.
But it is the Jews who have a very real problem. They have lied on a colossal scale. In the process they have deceived many of their own people as well as the world. Of course the political repercussions would be disastrous if the truth ever got out. That is the primarily reason why the "Holocaust Denial" laws exist in Germany and all over Europe today. Be grateful that you still live in the land of the First Amendment, because just about everywhere else you can be fired from your job, have your career destroyed and be turned into an unemployable social outcast. But you cannot be thrown into jail - at least not yet. That will have to wait until Michael Chertoff can classify "Holocaust Denial" as a form of intellectual terrorism. Then you can read Arthur Butz upside down while your hanging from your toes at Guantanamo Bay.
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Abigail
Nope, he's not racist, we're just liars
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Abigail
And if you really read what WTH is saying, the 9-11 terrorist attack isn't the fault of the terrorists, but the fault of those liars, who deceived the U.S. into supporting Israel.
Nevermind that the U.S. also gives vast amounts of money to the Palestinians. Nevermind that the U.S. gives vast amounts of money to other Muslim nations as well.
I find it very telling that WTH has such a beef against the United States support of Israel but offers not a single word of complaint about all the money we give to other countries.
Nope, not racist at all.
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Ham
WTH's little walk in the park here really does show what the appeal to holocaust denial really is..
in the face of evidence.. warehouses of shoes, the nazi's saved from the victims.. tons of HAIR.. I guess the nazi's needed to make something out of it..
clothes..
eye witnesses.. which sadly, are all dying off..
documentation of medical "experiments"..
and a person can have the one little "truth" that somehow the whole rest of the known world has been "deceived"..
must make a person pretty important, eh?
kinda like loy's inside "revelation" about the last pope coming to the new world to start another inquisition..
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Belle
WTH, ARE YOU SAYING THIS FOOTAGE IS FAKE?
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Ham
A typical denier's response would be:
"Let's let the Professor's goon subject the original to 'forensic' analysis.."
Then, there wouldn't even BE any film left. "well then, didn't happen.."
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What The Hey
I believe the title of this thread is: "What gives Holocaust denial such an appeal?" Actually that is a very good question that very few people today have an answer for - and why is that?
Because the more appropiate question to ask is, why do people still need to believe in the Holocaust? Yep. WE need to believe the Nazi's murdered and exterminated 6 million Jews - despite the fact it has been proven to be both scientifically and even physically impossible for them to have done so. WE need to beleive that the Germans turned human beings into "human soap" and "human lampshades" - and by golly, we'll damn all those who dare to question any of our incongruent and absurd conclusions about it!
There will always be those people who try to lock the barn door long after the horse has bolted. Why is that? Because locking the barn door gives them a sense of security even though the "horse" is no longer there. Forget about talking "horse-sense" with them or even into any of them, because it's not about someone having any "horse-sense" anymore - what it's really about today is: whatever makes me feel secure! SO I BETTER BE SURE TO LOCK THAT BARN DOOR!
Yes, being and feeling secure is certainly one of our basic human needs. We all need to feel secure and have a certain sense of security. But the question that is hardly ever asked is - where does one derive their sense of security? Does your sense of security come from believing the truth. or does it come from believing a lie? If your sense of security comes from a lie, then you'll hang on to it and hold on to it like it was your daily bread. And that's the reason why some people's arguments never seem to die or go away, because behind that argument is usually a lie that helps them feel secure.
It was Jesus Christ who said, "Leave them alone, for they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, shall they not both fall into the ditch?" But nobody's listening or taking his advice too much at all. I know that for a fact, because people today are still pretty much stuck in the same old ditch that Jesus talked about over 2000 years ago. But one day you might wake up and realize that Jesus Christ indeed spoke the truth. You'll come to realize that when you see people who are still stuck in the same old arguments that they have had with one another and with their neighbor - day in and day out - day after day, week after week, year after year, and they have only gotten and gone nowhere. But let's forget about the fact that I'm still stuck in the same old ditch (the same old argument) that I've had with you and with my neighbor for decades. Let's not talk about me or focus solely upon me. Let's talk all about you, shall we? I wonder just how far we will go this time.
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Ham
No horse..
Well, what the horse.
Well, I guess the horse must never have been there. Maybe there is no such a thing as a horse.
hmm.. "hey fella.. yeah you. wanna buy a barn, cheap? Don't remember exactly what it is for.. I'll even toss in a few oats. Can't have a barn without oats.."
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Belle
It's a real simple question, WTH.
Is this fake or do you just really not care about what happened to all these people?
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doojable
Okay WTH, what about the NON-JEWS who witnessed the atrocities and were also killed?
I'm not even going to dignify the rest of your statements with a comment...
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GarthP2000
Awwwwwww, Willlbuuurrrrrr!
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Lifted Up
Pardon me everyone; just thought these quotes deserved repeating.
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GarthP2000
Since WTF---err, WTH is so interested in authorities that speak the 'truth' re: revisionist history that debunks the Holocaust, here's one 'authority' that he forgot:
(Gotten from Earthtimes.org article)
Yeah, yeah, I know. All those Jews are dismissing it as 'hate speech', yadayada, ... but this guy even wants to wipe those pesky Jews off the face of the map.
... Does that help validate his argument? <_<
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WordWolf
Ok, get your GPS navigators ready, we're going to get lost now....]
[Can anyone find ANY relevance to the last few paragraphs,
concerning why WTH finds it necessary to deny the Holocaust?
He really doesn't care about what happened to all those people,
and if he has to claim it's fake to not care about them, he will,
but in the meantime, he's just going to pretend you didn't ask him.
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Ham
I understand all of this nice "let's get along in the world" kinda thing.. and I suppose the good President wants to open some dialogue.. but what's the point if it's "dialog" that can only be described as one group at another's throat..
:blink:
where one person's "grievance" is the fact of the mere existence of the other party..
doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense, at least to me..
what's the guy gonna do.. get behind the podium.. recite some poetry, "how shall I exterminate thee, let me count the ways.." ?
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Ham
Who knows.. maybe it's a good thing. Give the guy enough room and freedom to froth.. maybe he'll choke himself on it..
sometimes the worst thing you can do to somebody is to give them exactly what they want..
if it makes any difference.. the "thought police" that one poster refers to.. most of them I've read WANT the other side to be able to express their opinions without legal consequences.
The arguments are so uneducated, so inane.. they're hardly worth allowing them the "dignity" to become some kind of martyr for a half baked cause. That was what kinda solidified da ministry when the deprogrammers were running amock..
"we MUST be right, da debil is fighting us.."
Maybe that's the appeal to being a Holocaust denier.. a person can be a martyr.. toss their academic integrity and credibility to the wind, while a group of wide eyed followers fawn over the person, for being so "bold" or "noble(?)".. such "selflessness"..
Edited by Mr. HammeroniLink to comment
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What The Hey
I never said anybody here ever made that claim. The fact remains however: that is indeed a claim people have made regarding the holocaust as to what Nazi Germany did to the Jews. I was simply pointing out a fact I believe many people here (and also people out in the world) are probably not aware of. I am not claiming anybody here ever made this claim, regardless of what "you claim" I said. Gee, for the "intellectual type of person" you want to portray yourself to others, I certainly thought you were able to read better than that.
HOWEVER ... if I were going to insisit upon anyone here making any kind of absurd claim about the holocaust, then that would be the same claim many people out in the world (those who are not GSC members) have already made and are still making. What claim is that? It is the claim that 6 million Jews were exterminated by Nazi Germany in the manner that "people claim" they were. The "Holocaust deniers" have already respond to that particular claim with:
"It has been proven both scientfically and physically impossible to exterminate 6 million Jews in the manner that "people claim" Nazi Germany did."
I realize I have repeated myself, but differently - unlike the "pro-Holocaust" people regarding "their claims". AS YOU YOURSELF SO APTLY PUT IT FOR THEM: when discussing the millions of people the Nazis imprisoned, many of them for the "crime" of being Jewish, and the subsequent execution BY the Nazis for that "crime" ... etc., etc., etc.
Yes sir. People everywhere (not just here at GSC) are holding onto that "Holocaust" claim as if it were the truth - just as if it were their daily bread. The Holocaust is not true. The Holocaust is more like this "song" some people started a very long, long time ago. What kind of song is it?
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
(the second verse is the same as the first) ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
this is a song that never ends. It goes on and on my friend. Some people started it not knowing exactly what it was, and it will continue going on forever just because ...
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WordWolf
You made no exception whatsoever. We addressed WHAT YOU BROUGHT UP and did not pretend you hold
positions you don't. You just tossed that in and PRETENDED there's no connection with you saying that-
in MORE THAN ONE POST- and any posts you're responding to.
I'm well-read enough to know when someone's trying to INSINUATE a connection between two things.
I'm aware they make that Holocaust deniers make that claim of their own.
I'm also aware the evidence doesn't support their claim.
Furthermore,
one of the major issues, I've noticed, you've been ducking.
That is,
do you believe SOME Jews were exterminated by Hitler and his Nazis during World War II,
whether that was 100,000 or 1 million or some other number,
or are you claiming there was no concerted effort to round up and kill Jews and other minorities
in Germany during World War II by Nazis as directed by Hitler?
Personally,
I think your persistent refusal to address this from ANY angle is quite telling.
If you DID believe that SOME were killed but the numbers were inflated,
you'd sound less nonsensical to the average poster, and stand to gain by posting it.
If you believe that there was NO such effort, then you only stand to look silly in the face of
all the photographic evidence, eyewitness accounts, and confessions from people who were
there in one form or another, so you stand to lose by posting THAT.
Therefore, ignoring this perfectly reasonable question, and changing the subject,
is quite telling on its own. After all, we didn't presume you held EITHER position, but you
must hold ONE of them- since you've rejected
"the accounts everyone ELSE hold as accurate ARE accurate".
Ok, so are you saying that there WAS no roundup of Jews and other minorities in Nazi Germany
AT ALL, let alone executions of them for being minorities of their particular sort?
Or are you just intending to prevaricate and pretend you said "yes" or "no" whenever it suits your whims?
That's not intellectually honest.......
.......which hardly comes as news....
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Sunesis
This is fun, debating with GS's very own nazi. Seig Heil WTH.
You may enjoy this link. Note the old school tattoo and the human skin in old Ilse's Koch (a/k/a the Bitch of Buchenwald) skin collection.
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcus...iwomen/ilse.htm
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Sunesis
Here's another lovely lady, guess what they found in her quarters - oops!
http://www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcus...iwomen/irma.htm
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Ham
Maybe it SHOULD be.
If a person can't accept the darker side of human nature for what it is, how can one enjoy the lighter..
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waysider
Re: Sunesis' link referencing "The Bitch Of Buchenwald"
I'm no expert on Jewish law, but it is my understanding that a Jewish person( at least at that period of time) would never voluntarily tattoo himself as it is a violation of Jewish law.
This is why it was so disgraceful for a prisoner to have to be subjected to the "numbering" tattoos.
They were like cattle bing branded, in the eyes of the camp administrators, but the severity of the issue was much deeper and complex for those being tattooed.
The conclusion I deduce from this evidence is that these camps did not inter Jewish people only.
Use that to adjust the numbers if it makes any difference.
To me, it does not.
Growing up, I knew kids whose parents and grandparents had spent time in these camps.
And yes, I met many of them personally, though i can tell you they did NOT openly discuss what they had endured.
Some had "abbreviated" families.( Is that a nice enough way to say they had lost family members?)
Saying this part of history has been fabricated, is to say that my memories of childhood are all an illusion.
That much, at least, I really can't buy.
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