Well I recall the remarks about using "profane sources" or something like that in PFAL. And I distinctly recall being dumped on for wanting to go to college instead of WOW. Thankfully I never gave in to the bull$h*t about education being "worldly knowledge" and how education was loaded anyway since satan could put down any version of science and history he wanted.
Some of these hardliners tried so hard to keep people from leaving the way lifestyle they would say anything to keep you in. I was always amazed at how people who , just six months before were jobless and on the down and out could stand there in front of you and be arrogant enough to lecture you on what was the "right thing to do" or "christian maturity". TWI was full of those types of personalities.
In terms of secular stuff I also recall that they had it in for rock music and were pushing that book "the Marxist minstrels" as if it applied to all pop music. I remember after I went to a concert some of the wows told me that it was idolatry and that all rock musicians were into idolatry. IT was like talking to your parents except it was coming from people your age or younger so it was quite odd.
Steve - don't worry - I didn't really think you were. And if you don't like them - fine with me, there's lots of great music out there of all types. I think I was saying, I can totally understand how he'd love Metallica.
Justloafing, yes, the higher ups did laugh at us. One time, one of the tip top leadership offhandedly mentioned to me that they had all been in a car driving by where some corps were working and they were joking about the slaves working. I got very annoyed. I said to her, so you all think we're slaves - that's what we are to you. She said, oh no, we were joking. I dropped it, but I've always believed what Shakespeare said: Many a true word is said in jest.
Sunesis, that's just sick! And yes, there's always truth to jest, even if it's just a bit of truth, but I'm thinking there was more than "just a bit" of truth to that statement.
craig probably liked Metallica because they sang about him:
King Nothing
quote:
Wish I may
Wish I might
Have this I wish tonight
Are you satisfied?
Dig for gold
Dig for fame
You dig to make your name
Are you pacified?
All the wants you waste
All the things you've chased
Then it all crashes down
And you break your crown
And you point your finger but there's no one around
Just want one thing
Just to play the King
But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name
Where's your crown, King Nothing?
Where's your crown?
Hot and cold
Bought and sold
A heart as hard as gold
Yeah! Are you satisfied?
Wish I might, Wish I may
You wish your life away
Are you pacified?
All the wants you waste
All the things you've chased
Then it all crashes down
And you break your crown
And you point your finger, but there's no one around
Just want one thing
Just to play the King
But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name
Where's your crown, King Nothing?
Where's your crown?
Huh!
(Spoken)
Wish I may, wish I might
Have this wish, I wish tonight
I want that star, I want it now
I want it all and I don't care how
Careful what you wish
Careful what you say
Careful what you wish you may regret it
Careful what you wish you just might get it
Then it all crashes down
And you break your crown
And you point your finger, but there's no one around
Just want one thing
Just to play the King
But the castle's crumbled and you're left with just a name
Lol Cool Chef, WE had a ball....and what was fun was to be able to particippate and enjoy whole heartedly , without fear...it was kind of the first time since leaving twi that I had dared go against opinion...even my spouse (still very traditional in his twi beliefs at the time) was deeply comcerned...we had a ball anyway....took the camper down with another family that had a camper and spent the evening in the parking lot waiting for the festivities to begin....and then retiring to the campers clutching our copies of the book around 2 am for some exciting reading.
As for our costumes...my daughter attatched a cardoard box to the back of an ornate picture frame.. cutting out the bottom and the part on the picture side. We then glued flowery material that looked like old fashion wall paper to all of the inside surface....she then did her hair up fancy and dressed and bejeweled herself, borrowed a pair of spectacles and became the fat lady moving picture that guarded the griffindor entrance....she won second place among hundreds of participants...everybody LOVED her....
My son spray painted a soccer ball with red paint to represent a quaffle, and donned my wrap around scarlet skirt around his shoulders as a cape grabbed a broom and became Oliver Wood the Griffindor Quidditch Captain...It seems to me that he won fourth.
I had used a huge white nylon bag from work to manufacture a blast ended screwt costume, and had made two flobberworm costumes out of some torn up fish pillows for two of the younger children....seems to me the last child was decorated as a fresh caught cornish pixie.
They all got their pictures in the paper and on the news....lol
Funny thing is, some of the homeschool families got really self rightiously indignant with us for our participation...and though my children had been reading Harry Potter for years with no overt signes of evil.... these vigilant Mom`s had not noticed horns and tails up to this point though my children had been hp fans for two years....sigh ...allllll of a sudden, we were under suspicion as being evil, and my children were deemed TOO dangerous to play with by some of our friends...these are the same folks who raised their eyebows over our karate activities as well...Oh well, I guess cults and control come in many flavors
Sunesis, Thanks for that story. Now cross post that with the waybrain thread and you start to see a common thread between the Heads of the twits and the followers and why the followers are so damaged. It is with a BLACK HEART that place was and is run and it really shows you what twi stands for "THE LOVE OF MONEY".
Sheese I was always getting reproved for jesting. I was told it was wrong and "Not on the Word". They could never come close to living up to their own standards that they taught.
Reminds me of them laughing at the other churches. How they would say the people that went to church would be Godly for that one hour while they were in church and the rest of the week sin their butts off. Hmmmmm seems like that is the standard if your high enough in the way tree.
that must have been a wonderful time for you and your family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wish i coud have shared it with you.
i just finnished reading "phoenix" for the third time!
and think of this lurkers.......if nothing else
jk rowling if nothing else has instilled the love to read in kids as no one has before.
long live harry potter. it will go down as one of the biggest classics ever. gee maybe a large tome like the Bible won't intimadate them and they will find adventure in there too
Sort of makes me wonder if SOME of the top brass just lived in the secular world period, did not believe a thing they taught, raped and abused, set up the rapes and least of all laughed at us for being such (dummies) to follow them. It was all about their lifestyle and they fought very hard to keep it their lifestyle, still to this day.
I am sure I am way off base here but it has crossed my mind.
I don't think you're way off base at all - but it's not that simple. As most of us can tell from looking at our own lives - what we do, and what we say, and what we believe are not always consistent or logical.
It's quite possible/common for people to really believe something and act in ways that go contrary to that belief without even realizing there might be a contradiction.
When you combine that with how much in denial a person has to be to ascribe to the beliefs in the way it's probably very common. Looking back at my own life, I know I wasn't totally convinced of all the stuff I was propounding but I do think I believed that I believed it (if that makes sense).
Let me share a personal experience I had regarding how spiritual music really is.
I was in the middle of a manic episode and I was up late at night listening to all kinds of music on different radio stations with headphones on.
"Bohemian Raphsody" came on and I got really into it. There is a part where it gets really intense, and they're calling on Beezlebub. I'd have to listen to it again (not that I'd particualarly want to at this point) to recognize which part it was.
This big spirit entered me at that point and I had to remove the headphones and refuse to house it. I could feel the damn thing go in.
It happened. I may have been a little unhinged at the time, but I know it happened.
Like I said before, music is spirtual, very spiritual. Saul had David play music and evil spirits departed from him. It goes both ways, that's why we are to exercise discernment.
We are responsible to discern, and it's not a matter of Christian vs secular. (or as it was, TWI vs Everybody Else) It's a matter of devilish or not and we can tell the difference through our pneuma hagion.
Just because people in TWI wrote and performed music didn't make it that great. In fact, some of it was boring, because the leaders were controlling the creativity of those who could write music. At one time, I wanted to perform at a function and I was required to write down the lyrics of all my songs. It was so tedious, without word processing or a type writer, that I just shelved it.
They would mess around with song writer's lyrics and change them and mess up the rhythm and meaning and it just really put the lid on people.
It was like God never inpired anybody who wrote music without the sanction of the Great Leaders Who Knew All.
It's like that "Band of Gold" the 8th Corps heard over and over. Dr W changed one of the words so it didn't rhyme and it always bugged me.
A Limb Leader made me change a verse from "Father I'm beginning to understand how much he did for ME" to "to US." I guess it seemed less egotistical or something. But when I wrote the song it was during a realization I had that Christ died for ME. That's what it meant to me.
I don't think you're way off base at all - but it's not that simple. As most of us can tell from looking at our own lives - what we do, and what we say, and what we believe are not always consistent or logical.
It's quite possible/common for people to really believe something and act in ways that go contrary to that belief without even realizing there might be a contradiction.
When you combine that with how much in denial a person has to be to ascribe to the beliefs in the way it's probably very common. Looking back at my own life, I know I wasn't totally convinced of all the stuff I was propounding but I do think I believed that I believed it (if that makes sense).
I agree 3 cents. Just reading your post makes me think of people that tell lies to themselves long enough they believe them to be the truth.
"Bohemian Raphsody" came on and I got really into it. There is a part where it gets really intense, and they're calling on Beezlebub.
I suspect the section to which you are referring
is:
Easy come easy go - will you let me go
Bismillah! No - we will not let you go - let him go
Bismillah! We will not let you go - let him go
Bismillah! We will not let you go - let me go
Will not let you go - let me go (never)
Never let you go - let me go
Never let me go - ooo
No, no, no, no, no, no, no -
Oh mama mia, mama mia, mama mia let me go
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me
for me
for me
Bismillah" is the opening word in the Qu'ran (Koran) and literally means "In the name of Allah."
The only reference to Beelzebub is the statement "Oh mama mia, mama mia, mama mia let me go Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me". I suspect this means that because he has done all these bad things (killed a man) that his fate is pretty bad and deserving of the torment that only the devil can provide ? But nowhere do I see any incantations or anyone "Calling on" Beelzebub.
To the extent that one believes that Islam is devilish I suppose that "Bismillah" *could* be interpreted as some negative reference but I never got that impression from this song. The story line in the song has a tale of someone doing wrong and he is sufferring. I don't see anyone summoning the devil or asking to be possessed.
"Bohemian Raphsody" came on and I got really into it. There is a part where it gets really intense, and they're calling on Beezlebub.
I suspect the section to which you are referring
is:
Easy come easy go - will you let me go
Bismillah! No - we will not let you go - let him go
Bismillah! We will not let you go - let him go
Bismillah! We will not let you go - let me go
Will not let you go - let me go (never)
Never let you go - let me go
Never let me go - ooo
No, no, no, no, no, no, no -
Oh mama mia, mama mia, mama mia let me go
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me
for me
for me
"Bismillah" is the opening word in the Qu'ran (Koran) and literally means "In the name of Allah." It is not a reference to the devil.
The only reference to Beelzebub is the statement "Oh mama mia, mama mia, mama mia let me go Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me". I suspect this means that because he has done all these bad things (killed a man) that his fate is pretty bad and deserving of the torment that only the devil can provide ? But nowhere do I see any incantations or anyone "Calling on" Beelzebub.
To the extent that one believes that Islam is devilish I suppose that "Bismillah" *could* be interpreted as some negative reference but I never got that impression from this song. The story line in the song has a tale of someone doing wrong and he is sufferring as a result. I don't see anyone summoning the devil or asking to be possessed.
Well, it may not in so many words call on a spirit but it did something to me.
Those words are chilling. and I do think that was the part.
I do not question your personal experience as it is , after all, your experience. On the other hand I do know that personal myths and systems of belief lead individuals to encounter things much differently than someone else.
Also use of non-english words shouldn't provoke fear. After all its just another language.
In my view those words and the corresponding
music weren't sinister or evil at all. It was a a take-off on opera. Frankly that section used to make me laugh if anything. In general I liked the song (radio over play has lessened my enthusiam for it) but even in my Way daze I never considered it to be a pathway to possession.
I do recall that some local way leaders were really incensed over two songs that mentioned the devil - one was Cliff Richard's "Devil Woman" which was some of the most weak, harmless, sugary pop music you ever heard but
one night at family night it was mentioned as if it were a "song from the pit".
The other was the SuperTramp song "Goodbye Stranger" where the line goes:
You can laugh at my behavior
That'll never bother me
Say the devil is my savior
But I don't pay no heed
Man the leaders just grilled anyone who liked that song but they didn't even take the time to read the lyric in context. The guy never says that "the devil is my savior" just that other people might say that but he wouldn't care. But no they wanted to have a teaching out of it.
A few months ago I was listening to National Public Radio. The particular show was "The World" I think.
They did a story about the surprising popularity of Queen's music in the Middle East.
I think that it was most probably Iran (slightly possibly Iraq, I sound like Alan jackson in another song).
NPR and The World usually do their stories with reporters and real people "on location".
Freddie Mercury was originally from Iran (Iraq?) and that is the big reason Queen's music is popular. Local boy did good kind of thing, despite the gay issue with Freddie.
Anyway on that show they talked about the song, and kind of took it apart and translated the words.
I don't remember the specifics, but the interpretation seemed very much along the lines of what someone else posted about the tragic situation the protagonist in the song was enduring.
I do remember feeling surpried and relieved that it was not as "dark" as some have suggested.
Someone could probably do a google search on NPR's website to see if there is a transcript.
A musician friend of mine set me straight on that SuperTramp song years ago. He suggested that sometimes what you're hearing is not exactly what is being sung.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
rascal how muchfun that must have been! what didhagrid you all go in costume as?
not malfoy i hope
i hate that little bastard
but really isn't he great little actor
i would make a great hagrid!
what a fun series that is
those so called christains should just loosen up a bit and enjou life as God intended it to be imo
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diazbro
Well I recall the remarks about using "profane sources" or something like that in PFAL. And I distinctly recall being dumped on for wanting to go to college instead of WOW. Thankfully I never gave in to the bull$h*t about education being "worldly knowledge" and how education was loaded anyway since satan could put down any version of science and history he wanted.
Some of these hardliners tried so hard to keep people from leaving the way lifestyle they would say anything to keep you in. I was always amazed at how people who , just six months before were jobless and on the down and out could stand there in front of you and be arrogant enough to lecture you on what was the "right thing to do" or "christian maturity". TWI was full of those types of personalities.
In terms of secular stuff I also recall that they had it in for rock music and were pushing that book "the Marxist minstrels" as if it applied to all pop music. I remember after I went to a concert some of the wows told me that it was idolatry and that all rock musicians were into idolatry. IT was like talking to your parents except it was coming from people your age or younger so it was quite odd.
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Sunesis
Steve - don't worry - I didn't really think you were. And if you don't like them - fine with me, there's lots of great music out there of all types. I think I was saying, I can totally understand how he'd love Metallica.
Justloafing, yes, the higher ups did laugh at us. One time, one of the tip top leadership offhandedly mentioned to me that they had all been in a car driving by where some corps were working and they were joking about the slaves working. I got very annoyed. I said to her, so you all think we're slaves - that's what we are to you. She said, oh no, we were joking. I dropped it, but I've always believed what Shakespeare said: Many a true word is said in jest.
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Belle
Sunesis, that's just sick! And yes, there's always truth to jest, even if it's just a bit of truth, but I'm thinking there was more than "just a bit" of truth to that statement.
craig probably liked Metallica because they sang about him:
King Nothing
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rascal
Lol Cool Chef, WE had a ball....and what was fun was to be able to particippate and enjoy whole heartedly , without fear...it was kind of the first time since leaving twi that I had dared go against opinion...even my spouse (still very traditional in his twi beliefs at the time) was deeply comcerned...we had a ball anyway....took the camper down with another family that had a camper and spent the evening in the parking lot waiting for the festivities to begin....and then retiring to the campers clutching our copies of the book around 2 am for some exciting reading.
As for our costumes...my daughter attatched a cardoard box to the back of an ornate picture frame.. cutting out the bottom and the part on the picture side. We then glued flowery material that looked like old fashion wall paper to all of the inside surface....she then did her hair up fancy and dressed and bejeweled herself, borrowed a pair of spectacles and became the fat lady moving picture that guarded the griffindor entrance....she won second place among hundreds of participants...everybody LOVED her....
My son spray painted a soccer ball with red paint to represent a quaffle, and donned my wrap around scarlet skirt around his shoulders as a cape grabbed a broom and became Oliver Wood the Griffindor Quidditch Captain...It seems to me that he won fourth.
I had used a huge white nylon bag from work to manufacture a blast ended screwt costume, and had made two flobberworm costumes out of some torn up fish pillows for two of the younger children....seems to me the last child was decorated as a fresh caught cornish pixie.
They all got their pictures in the paper and on the news....lol
Funny thing is, some of the homeschool families got really self rightiously indignant with us for our participation...and though my children had been reading Harry Potter for years with no overt signes of evil.... these vigilant Mom`s had not noticed horns and tails up to this point though my children had been hp fans for two years....sigh ...allllll of a sudden, we were under suspicion as being evil, and my children were deemed TOO dangerous to play with by some of our friends...these are the same folks who raised their eyebows over our karate activities as well...Oh well, I guess cults and control come in many flavors
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justloafing
Sunesis, Thanks for that story. Now cross post that with the waybrain thread and you start to see a common thread between the Heads of the twits and the followers and why the followers are so damaged. It is with a BLACK HEART that place was and is run and it really shows you what twi stands for "THE LOVE OF MONEY".
Sheese I was always getting reproved for jesting. I was told it was wrong and "Not on the Word". They could never come close to living up to their own standards that they taught.
Reminds me of them laughing at the other churches. How they would say the people that went to church would be Godly for that one hour while they were in church and the rest of the week sin their butts off. Hmmmmm seems like that is the standard if your high enough in the way tree.
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
rascal
do you haVE pics?
that must have been a wonderful time for you and your family!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wish i coud have shared it with you.
i just finnished reading "phoenix" for the third time!
and think of this lurkers.......if nothing else
jk rowling if nothing else has instilled the love to read in kids as no one has before.
long live harry potter. it will go down as one of the biggest classics ever. gee maybe a large tome like the Bible won't intimadate them and they will find adventure in there too
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My3Cents
I don't think you're way off base at all - but it's not that simple. As most of us can tell from looking at our own lives - what we do, and what we say, and what we believe are not always consistent or logical.
It's quite possible/common for people to really believe something and act in ways that go contrary to that belief without even realizing there might be a contradiction.
When you combine that with how much in denial a person has to be to ascribe to the beliefs in the way it's probably very common. Looking back at my own life, I know I wasn't totally convinced of all the stuff I was propounding but I do think I believed that I believed it (if that makes sense).
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outandabout
Let me share a personal experience I had regarding how spiritual music really is.
I was in the middle of a manic episode and I was up late at night listening to all kinds of music on different radio stations with headphones on.
"Bohemian Raphsody" came on and I got really into it. There is a part where it gets really intense, and they're calling on Beezlebub. I'd have to listen to it again (not that I'd particualarly want to at this point) to recognize which part it was.
This big spirit entered me at that point and I had to remove the headphones and refuse to house it. I could feel the damn thing go in.
It happened. I may have been a little unhinged at the time, but I know it happened.
Like I said before, music is spirtual, very spiritual. Saul had David play music and evil spirits departed from him. It goes both ways, that's why we are to exercise discernment.
We are responsible to discern, and it's not a matter of Christian vs secular. (or as it was, TWI vs Everybody Else) It's a matter of devilish or not and we can tell the difference through our pneuma hagion.
Just because people in TWI wrote and performed music didn't make it that great. In fact, some of it was boring, because the leaders were controlling the creativity of those who could write music. At one time, I wanted to perform at a function and I was required to write down the lyrics of all my songs. It was so tedious, without word processing or a type writer, that I just shelved it.
They would mess around with song writer's lyrics and change them and mess up the rhythm and meaning and it just really put the lid on people.
It was like God never inpired anybody who wrote music without the sanction of the Great Leaders Who Knew All.
It's like that "Band of Gold" the 8th Corps heard over and over. Dr W changed one of the words so it didn't rhyme and it always bugged me.
A Limb Leader made me change a verse from "Father I'm beginning to understand how much he did for ME" to "to US." I guess it seemed less egotistical or something. But when I wrote the song it was during a realization I had that Christ died for ME. That's what it meant to me.
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Too Gray Now
It would have been interesting to see the expression on your Limp Coord's face when told to change from "me" to "us".....
"Whose song is this, anyway?"
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outandabout
Like I would have said that. If I had been more assertive, I wouldn't have ended up in TWI and putting up with all that Bull.
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justloafing
I agree 3 cents. Just reading your post makes me think of people that tell lies to themselves long enough they believe them to be the truth.
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diazbro
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diazbro
I suspect the section to which you are referring
is:
Easy come easy go - will you let me go
Bismillah! No - we will not let you go - let him go
Bismillah! We will not let you go - let him go
Bismillah! We will not let you go - let me go
Will not let you go - let me go (never)
Never let you go - let me go
Never let me go - ooo
No, no, no, no, no, no, no -
Oh mama mia, mama mia, mama mia let me go
Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me
for me
for me
"Bismillah" is the opening word in the Qu'ran (Koran) and literally means "In the name of Allah." It is not a reference to the devil.
The only reference to Beelzebub is the statement "Oh mama mia, mama mia, mama mia let me go Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me". I suspect this means that because he has done all these bad things (killed a man) that his fate is pretty bad and deserving of the torment that only the devil can provide ? But nowhere do I see any incantations or anyone "Calling on" Beelzebub.
To the extent that one believes that Islam is devilish I suppose that "Bismillah" *could* be interpreted as some negative reference but I never got that impression from this song. The story line in the song has a tale of someone doing wrong and he is sufferring as a result. I don't see anyone summoning the devil or asking to be possessed.
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outandabout
Well, it may not in so many words call on a spirit but it did something to me.
Those words are chilling. and I do think that was the part.
It sure looks to me like words that could open a person up, if the person is in an "open" state of mind, like I was.
I don't think most people consciously ask to be possessed, not with full knowledge.
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diazbro
I do not question your personal experience as it is , after all, your experience. On the other hand I do know that personal myths and systems of belief lead individuals to encounter things much differently than someone else.
Also use of non-english words shouldn't provoke fear. After all its just another language.
In my view those words and the corresponding
music weren't sinister or evil at all. It was a a take-off on opera. Frankly that section used to make me laugh if anything. In general I liked the song (radio over play has lessened my enthusiam for it) but even in my Way daze I never considered it to be a pathway to possession.
I do recall that some local way leaders were really incensed over two songs that mentioned the devil - one was Cliff Richard's "Devil Woman" which was some of the most weak, harmless, sugary pop music you ever heard but
one night at family night it was mentioned as if it were a "song from the pit".
The other was the SuperTramp song "Goodbye Stranger" where the line goes:
You can laugh at my behavior
That'll never bother me
Say the devil is my savior
But I don't pay no heed
Man the leaders just grilled anyone who liked that song but they didn't even take the time to read the lyric in context. The guy never says that "the devil is my savior" just that other people might say that but he wouldn't care. But no they wanted to have a teaching out of it.
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Darrell Bailey
Regarding the Queen song "Bohemian Rhapsody":
A few months ago I was listening to National Public Radio. The particular show was "The World" I think.
They did a story about the surprising popularity of Queen's music in the Middle East.
I think that it was most probably Iran (slightly possibly Iraq, I sound like Alan jackson in another song).
NPR and The World usually do their stories with reporters and real people "on location".
Freddie Mercury was originally from Iran (Iraq?) and that is the big reason Queen's music is popular. Local boy did good kind of thing, despite the gay issue with Freddie.
Anyway on that show they talked about the song, and kind of took it apart and translated the words.
I don't remember the specifics, but the interpretation seemed very much along the lines of what someone else posted about the tragic situation the protagonist in the song was enduring.
I do remember feeling surpried and relieved that it was not as "dark" as some have suggested.
Someone could probably do a google search on NPR's website to see if there is a transcript.
God Bless you all as, well as Wayne and Garth,
(heads rocking, hair flying)
Darrell
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Oakspear
A musician friend of mine set me straight on that SuperTramp song years ago. He suggested that sometimes what you're hearing is not exactly what is being sung.
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TheHighWay
Queen has at least one other song where they use Islamic text, in fact the title is "Mustapha"...
Abrahim
Abrahim
Abrahim
Allah, Allah, Allah, Allah,
Will pray for you.
Hey!!
Mustapha,
Mustapha,
Mustapha,
Abrahim.
Mustapha,
Mustapha,
Mustapha,
Abrahim.
Mustapha Abrahim.
Al-lah - lah - lah - will pray for you.
Mustapha Abrahim.
Al-lah - lah - lah - will pray for you.
Mustapha.
Hey - Mustapha
Mustapha Abrahim.
Mustapha Abrahim.
Al-la-ee, al-la-ee, al-la-ee,
Al-la-ee, al-la-ee, al-la-ee,
Mustapha,
Mustapha (to end)
I have no idea what it means, but its a kick-@ss song and I like it.
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