You know, if you can get through something on your own, more power to you. That's great.
If praying gets you through it, I'm all for that. Terrific.
But if you do need talk therapy and medication to get you through a rough patch, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and God doesn't love you any less for it.
For anyone to insinuate like TWI does in that quote and has elsewhere, that talk therapy is unnecessary for anyone, and that you are "paying someone to be your friend," is bogus advice in an effort order to control you.
If you want a friend, get a friend.
But a therapist is NEVER your friend. And a friend can NEVER DO what a therapist does. They might be able to be a sounding board for you, but they are NOT a therapist if they have not been trained.
Therapists are highly trained professionals paid for their expertise to help you get back on your feet, and work to advocate for your best interest as an objective party. Friends are not always objective. Nor are all Christians.
To insinuate like TWI and some other so-called Christian groups do, that someone who has been prescribed medication should dump it out because God frowns on pharmakeia, is not only irresponsible, but this is
Manipulation via Condemnation.
Studies have shown that talk therapy combined with medication gives better results than talk therapy alone, whether you get it from a therapist, a Christian Counselor, or a rank unbeliever therapist, or just advice from a friend.
But for someone who has been prescribed medication to not take it, is more dangerous than to have talk therapy alone.
If you got healed without meds, I'm happy for you.
But if you were prescribed them, you should take them regardless of what your church or TWI buddies tell you.
I have seen a man, because of pressure to "do the Word," declare he was healed and dump out his meds, and then go out and tear up a restaurant and land in jail, because he went manic.
This is not unique just to TWI. It seems to be a right-wing conservative religion thing.
If you have been prescribed medication, it is in your best interest to take it according to the prescription.
If you need it, it does NOT mean you are spiritually weak. It is NOT contrary to God's Will for you to get the help you need. God does NOT love you any less for it.
We are still talking about waybrain on this thread, aren't we?
Not to pick on your post Catcup which was excellent, but phrases like this still set off sirens and redlights to me.
People are free to categorize people however they want to, but this phrase I have never heard anywhere outsde of TWI and have dropped it from from my vocabulary and thought processes a long time ago.
Dont get me wrong the post was excellent but the phrase itself is immediately demeaning and imo part of the TWI control process that we learned over other people to cut us off from the outside world by labelling in such a way that they are unworthy of our attention or consideration
I'm sorry mstar-- the "rank unbeliever therapist" was tongue in cheek, and I understand how it can be perceived here. I should have given you the context in which I first gave that advice, which at the time was appropriate. I apologize.
"Rank unbeliever" is a phrase still frequently used in conservative Christian circles outside The Way International.
This term is especially used by controlling religious people particularly when warning against associating with or opening your life to people who are not Christian, or who do not believe the same things they want you to believe.
I recently had a client (not involved in TWI or on this board in any way-- was attending an oppressive church) who was told by his pastor that the only therapist he should EVER consider was a "Good Christian Counselor," that he should NEVER seek the advice of a "rank unbeliever therapist" and that he should NEVER take medications of any sort since it was against God's law.
The man was really torn about his decision after speaking to his pastor, and felt condemned about his choices, though he was being helped by his current therapy and medications.
I told him it didn't matter what kind of counselor he chose, whether it was a so-called good Christian Counselor, a good Jewish Counselor, or even a good rank unbeliever Counselor, just get to a good counselor! And if he is prescribed medication, that he should take it and God does not love him any less for it. It is dangerous and irresponsible to suggest to a person who has been prescribed medication, to not take it.
The attitudes of conservative Christianity many times mix with those of TWI and this is one area where it does, and it does so to the detriment and sometimes even the peril of many people in TWI and other churches which could be considered oppressive and controlling.
I see so many people who are manipulated by churches via guilt and condemnation. Manipulated into doing things against their own best interest.
Those kinds of things sound like lawsuits waiting to happen, but they usually don't because the person never gets the help they need thanks to the manipulation of the church.
I wonder if John is going to be allowed to keep those comments on his site now that we've pointed them out. What's funny to me is that I've heard from a couple of very reliable sources that John is a typical TWIt who verbally abuses his wife and has backed her into corners yelling at her until she does whatever it is HE wants her to do. If that's the happy family and helpmeet standard of TWI I'd rather have counselling.
Intimidation is an effective means some TWI leadership use in order to keep their wives in submission.
According to my own close observations over several years, I highly suspect that J*sephine W*ll*ce is at least verbally abused. She is fearful of her husband, who is a master at intimidation among the believers.
So John has put another Big Fat Claim on their website. One that is not only untrue, but could possibly get them into a lot of hot water, depending on the advice they give one on one to their people.
However I know from experience what the standard line is to the people: Pharmakeia is devil-spirit influenced and ungodly.
Hell, according to the definition of the word, aspirin is pharmakeia. And ol' Tricky Vic even used to advise taking an aspirin now and then.
But as we all know by now, TWI is consistent only when and where they think it will benefit them.
If I were you I would take catcups advise and go find help. She never hid anything what so ever and she did answer your question the first time. She is not stalking a soul.
She is pointing things out that was and is wrong with twi. You with your insane questions is stalking, IMO. Your asking questions and the way you ask them are invading her privacy. I know she did not have to answer your questions but the way you asked them here on a public forum was to put doubt in every ones mind about her and her intentions (how twi). We all have our private lives and you should leave well enough alone. As Highway 29 said in another thread, mind your own beeswax.
It seems you learned very well at twi on how to hurt people and continue today.
"The issue with Song and that Song has lies far beyond the subject of this thread. That is why it has been requested to be addressed via Private Topic."
"I sincerely hope you will seek the help I advised. You need help from a trained professional."
Whoops, I am sure you will take you own unsolicited advice~~~
You have ignored the explicit declared wishes of the author of this thread to take your issues up with me in a Private Topic.
NO I HAVE NOT!!! YOU MADE IT PUBLIC!!!
"The issue with Song and that Song has lies far beyond the subject of this thread. That is why it has been requested to be addressed via Private Topic."
It is flat out wrong to publicly post a private conversation without consent.
Where's the "report to moderator" link.
That should be deleted followed by an apology.
Horse s h it BOB!!!
GSC has a kinda a little tiny little space to declare words that were totally private.
If someone sends to me words that are in my opinion rather out of the ordinary and in my HO detrimental to some according to my experiences, why then should these words not be published?
PT is a rare thing for me, like in the way woods~~~
Play lot's of Rok N Roll really really loud Celtic Music as it's mood indicates and takes many a walks 'pon the oceans edge and listen to the waves breath during every type of wind you can stand.
AND LAUGH AND CRY ALOT FROM YOUR SOUL OF HEART
I'm just a
Song man
TheSongRemainsTheSame
Posted June 19, 2005 11:52
Oh and uhh yeah Belle, if ya ever have a chance during a straight down real gray rain and gray ocean on the oceans edge, get real naked and dance and sing and shout 'pon the sand untill the rains dissipate and have some one close witness your crazy free soul!!!
Posts: 3074 | Location: A1A, Fl, USA | Registered: June 17, 2002
TheSongRemainsTheSame
Posted June 19, 2005 12:02
Feel your heart
Listen to your body
And try hard to understand
The beat of your heart
in your hand
I've seen a person dine with his feet, using all the utinsils and the glasses at an elegant table setting as if the feet and legs were arms~~~
CoolWaters
Posted June 19, 2005 14:37
Well, Belle Darlene, in his own special way, Song's got it right...
Just do something totally different and totally unacceptable to twi brain.
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Catcup
Belle, what a quote!
You know, if you can get through something on your own, more power to you. That's great.
If praying gets you through it, I'm all for that. Terrific.
But if you do need talk therapy and medication to get you through a rough patch, there is absolutely nothing wrong with it, and God doesn't love you any less for it.
For anyone to insinuate like TWI does in that quote and has elsewhere, that talk therapy is unnecessary for anyone, and that you are "paying someone to be your friend," is bogus advice in an effort order to control you.
If you want a friend, get a friend.
But a therapist is NEVER your friend. And a friend can NEVER DO what a therapist does. They might be able to be a sounding board for you, but they are NOT a therapist if they have not been trained.
Therapists are highly trained professionals paid for their expertise to help you get back on your feet, and work to advocate for your best interest as an objective party. Friends are not always objective. Nor are all Christians.
To insinuate like TWI and some other so-called Christian groups do, that someone who has been prescribed medication should dump it out because God frowns on pharmakeia, is not only irresponsible, but this is
Manipulation via Condemnation.
Studies have shown that talk therapy combined with medication gives better results than talk therapy alone, whether you get it from a therapist, a Christian Counselor, or a rank unbeliever therapist, or just advice from a friend.
But for someone who has been prescribed medication to not take it, is more dangerous than to have talk therapy alone.
If you got healed without meds, I'm happy for you.
But if you were prescribed them, you should take them regardless of what your church or TWI buddies tell you.
I have seen a man, because of pressure to "do the Word," declare he was healed and dump out his meds, and then go out and tear up a restaurant and land in jail, because he went manic.
This is not unique just to TWI. It seems to be a right-wing conservative religion thing.
If you have been prescribed medication, it is in your best interest to take it according to the prescription.
If you need it, it does NOT mean you are spiritually weak. It is NOT contrary to God's Will for you to get the help you need. God does NOT love you any less for it.
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mstar1
We are still talking about waybrain on this thread, aren't we?
Not to pick on your post Catcup which was excellent, but phrases like this still set off sirens and redlights to me.
People are free to categorize people however they want to, but this phrase I have never heard anywhere outsde of TWI and have dropped it from from my vocabulary and thought processes a long time ago.
Dont get me wrong the post was excellent but the phrase itself is immediately demeaning and imo part of the TWI control process that we learned over other people to cut us off from the outside world by labelling in such a way that they are unworthy of our attention or consideration
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Catcup
I'm sorry mstar-- the "rank unbeliever therapist" was tongue in cheek, and I understand how it can be perceived here. I should have given you the context in which I first gave that advice, which at the time was appropriate. I apologize.
"Rank unbeliever" is a phrase still frequently used in conservative Christian circles outside The Way International.
This term is especially used by controlling religious people particularly when warning against associating with or opening your life to people who are not Christian, or who do not believe the same things they want you to believe.
I recently had a client (not involved in TWI or on this board in any way-- was attending an oppressive church) who was told by his pastor that the only therapist he should EVER consider was a "Good Christian Counselor," that he should NEVER seek the advice of a "rank unbeliever therapist" and that he should NEVER take medications of any sort since it was against God's law.
The man was really torn about his decision after speaking to his pastor, and felt condemned about his choices, though he was being helped by his current therapy and medications.
I told him it didn't matter what kind of counselor he chose, whether it was a so-called good Christian Counselor, a good Jewish Counselor, or even a good rank unbeliever Counselor, just get to a good counselor! And if he is prescribed medication, that he should take it and God does not love him any less for it. It is dangerous and irresponsible to suggest to a person who has been prescribed medication, to not take it.
The attitudes of conservative Christianity many times mix with those of TWI and this is one area where it does, and it does so to the detriment and sometimes even the peril of many people in TWI and other churches which could be considered oppressive and controlling.
I see so many people who are manipulated by churches via guilt and condemnation. Manipulated into doing things against their own best interest.
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Belle
Those kinds of things sound like lawsuits waiting to happen, but they usually don't because the person never gets the help they need thanks to the manipulation of the church.
I wonder if John is going to be allowed to keep those comments on his site now that we've pointed them out. What's funny to me is that I've heard from a couple of very reliable sources that John is a typical TWIt who verbally abuses his wife and has backed her into corners yelling at her until she does whatever it is HE wants her to do. If that's the happy family and helpmeet standard of TWI I'd rather have counselling.
Effen Hypocrites
Spiritual Abuse - plain and simple.
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Belle
My therapist is Unitarian Universalist. He knows a lot about a lot of different religions, beliefs and thought processes.
The first session we had I took Steve Hassan's "Releasing the Bonds" and gave it to him. Told him he needed to read it and he did.
:)-->
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Catcup
Intimidation is an effective means some TWI leadership use in order to keep their wives in submission.
According to my own close observations over several years, I highly suspect that J*sephine W*ll*ce is at least verbally abused. She is fearful of her husband, who is a master at intimidation among the believers.
So John has put another Big Fat Claim on their website. One that is not only untrue, but could possibly get them into a lot of hot water, depending on the advice they give one on one to their people.
However I know from experience what the standard line is to the people: Pharmakeia is devil-spirit influenced and ungodly.
Hell, according to the definition of the word, aspirin is pharmakeia. And ol' Tricky Vic even used to advise taking an aspirin now and then.
But as we all know by now, TWI is consistent only when and where they think it will benefit them.
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mstar1
Oh Yes You Will!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
And I HAVE RESPONDED~~~
in private topic
hmmm sounds familiar~~~
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
[contents of PM deleted by the moderator]
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justloafing
Song, That was just wrong to post that.
If I were you I would take catcups advise and go find help. She never hid anything what so ever and she did answer your question the first time. She is not stalking a soul.
She is pointing things out that was and is wrong with twi. You with your insane questions is stalking, IMO. Your asking questions and the way you ask them are invading her privacy. I know she did not have to answer your questions but the way you asked them here on a public forum was to put doubt in every ones mind about her and her intentions (how twi). We all have our private lives and you should leave well enough alone. As Highway 29 said in another thread, mind your own beeswax.
It seems you learned very well at twi on how to hurt people and continue today.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
justloafing~~~
Dig
I am not stalking!!!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
CC has much a voice here as well as you ~~~
~~~to take me off line in a PT and then pronounce it public
~~~
You figure it out?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
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justloafing
Speaking of how to deal with a way brain
:P-->
I said my peace now on with the thread. Sorry Belle
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Catcup
Song
You have ignored the explicit declared wishes of the author of this thread to take your issues up with me in a Private Topic.
Instead, you took the two posts I made to you in PT and published them on the open board. YOU did that, no one else did.
Now, you have derailed this important thread another time, and made it all about YOU.
I sincerely hope you will seek the help I advised. You need help from a trained professional.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Hey JL,
Dig it~~~
You seem no way brain at all
or at least know all there is regarding the subject~~~
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
"The issue with Song and that Song has lies far beyond the subject of this thread. That is why it has been requested to be addressed via Private Topic."
"I sincerely hope you will seek the help I advised. You need help from a trained professional."
Whoops, I am sure you will take you own unsolicited advice~~~
care for a PT without announcement CC?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
NO I HAVE NOT!!! YOU MADE IT PUBLIC!!!
"The issue with Song and that Song has lies far beyond the subject of this thread. That is why it has been requested to be addressed via Private Topic."
Song
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Bob
It is flat out wrong to publicly post a private conversation without consent.
Where's the "report to moderator" link.
That should be deleted followed by an apology.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Yeah and your point is!!!
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Catcup
Belle, I am sorry too. My presence seems to be a distraction on this thread, so I'm done here.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Horse s h it BOB!!!
GSC has a kinda a little tiny little space to declare words that were totally private.
If someone sends to me words that are in my opinion rather out of the ordinary and in my HO detrimental to some according to my experiences, why then should these words not be published?
PT is a rare thing for me, like in the way woods~~~
PT offers no warranty LOCK BOX!!!!!!!
surely you jest?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
"Belle,
My presence seems to be a distraction on this thread, so I'm done here."
Belle, I agree with Cc.
And, so is my distraction again with drawn!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
I still hear too:
Play lot's of Rok N Roll really really loud Celtic Music as it's mood indicates and takes many a walks 'pon the oceans edge and listen to the waves breath during every type of wind you can stand.
AND LAUGH AND CRY ALOT FROM YOUR SOUL OF HEART
I'm just a
Song man
TheSongRemainsTheSame
Posted June 19, 2005 11:52
Oh and uhh yeah Belle, if ya ever have a chance during a straight down real gray rain and gray ocean on the oceans edge, get real naked and dance and sing and shout 'pon the sand untill the rains dissipate and have some one close witness your crazy free soul!!!
Posts: 3074 | Location: A1A, Fl, USA | Registered: June 17, 2002
TheSongRemainsTheSame
Posted June 19, 2005 12:02
Feel your heart
Listen to your body
And try hard to understand
The beat of your heart
in your hand
I've seen a person dine with his feet, using all the utinsils and the glasses at an elegant table setting as if the feet and legs were arms~~~
CoolWaters
Posted June 19, 2005 14:37
Well, Belle Darlene, in his own special way, Song's got it right...
Just do something totally different and totally unacceptable to twi brain.
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