I truthfully answered his question the first time he asked it. He could not accept it as the truth.
He continued to ask the same question several different ways, derailing the thread and behaving in a way I and others found objectionable.
Pushing buttons? Yes, it is annoying when you tell someone the truth and they won't accept it, and continue to badger you-- whether you've ever been in The Way International or not. That has nothing to do with "WayBrain."
But if he doesn't like the truth, that's his problem and not mine.
This is not the first time he has done this, and I am not the only person whom he has harassed in this manner.
Anything further on this discussion should be done through Private Topic, which Belle has requested. I think we should honor her request. This is a serious thread.
Way brain is usually accompanied by WaySpeak but not always. Obviously the catch phrases that go along with the way experience can trigger bad memories in ourselves and others:
"is it available","needs and wants parallel","only god can create","be vigilant", "abundant sharing","the absent christ"
On the other hand long after I abandoned wayspeak (at least I think I have) there are still periods wherein I might look down on organized religion though I usually catch myself and try to cut that part of my thinking loose. I've been out since 83 so its not such a hard thing to do anymore.
I suppose that attempting to control it in yourself and in others is a different thing. for others well let them rave on about "the hope fo glory" or "receive, retain, release". If someone is still that immersed in the way experience then chances are you couldn't talk sense to them anyway. I usually just avoid talking to them and move on. They get the message of course though they don't much care for it.
As I've mentioned before I think that the waybrain relapse is most likely to occur when you meet someone in real time who was in the Way. For some reason people get a contact high off it and start to move down memory lane which might lead to a sympathetic, "the way we were" kind of view. But thats very dangerous because it lets nostalgia and yearning for the "good ole days" overlay the reality of the experience. I know. Some of the old timers talk of "blessed times" but ever since I was involved (early 70s) there were *always* intrigues and plots going on.
The fact that others didn't notice it doesn't invalidate the fact that I did. That book "the way living in love" by E. Whiteside was a great work of fiction. I never saw TWI mentioned in that book. Sure I saw people trying to emulate it and act is if life were some utopia but the reality was much,much different. But some were like totally brain washed by it and were convinved to mold their reality , even if it meant rewriting their history , to conform with that book.
The reason I mention all this is because I do encounter people of the TWI I who are still very much in love with that time
and expect others to be also. They simply refuse to believe or
acknowledge that Vic was scamming on young women or that the power struggles (Heefner, Doop, VPW) were "that bad" or that VPW was really stealing his material from others. 9 times out of 10 its these folks that will surprise you with their use of and unabashed devotion to wayspeak and waybrain. Much more so than someone who might have just left say 2 or 3 years ago. You won't see it here so much but in person you do.
I too am glad catcup posts here. This is one of the most important topics an x-Wafer faces, would we all agree?
I'm thinking that if there was no Waybrain to control there would be no reason for a person to leave TWI, except for, "I just don't like what they do." We do agree that "the only good wafer is an X-wafer" so to speak. Basically every one has every good reason to leave TWI because we feel TWI is damaging.
Waybrain is the centerpiece of the damage they do to individuals.
That being said. I feel that a big part of controlling waybrain is ignoring it. What??? Better communicated, perhaps, what I'm saying is give it NO place in your brain. Redefine it.
The biggest part of waybrain is how twi redefines "all of life." I.E.:
- WC gards are not Graduates of a Bible college - - They're CORPS. As a WC, somehow TWI retains the right to throw you out of "the WC household" and declare you as DFAC, "Dropped From Active Corps. Huh?
My Diploma from The Ivy School of Professional Art which hangs on my wall above my computer & desk in my office at home states the following:
quote:
This is certification that HCW has successfully completed the requirements of the Ivy School of Professional Art for graduation in the approved course of art and therefore is entitled to every right and honor pertaining thereto. Witness the seal of the school and the signiture of the president this date:
It has the typed date and the handwritten signiture of the president of the school.
That format makes it a LEGAL document, confirming its declaration.
Co-inky-denteally....
My diploma from the Way College of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus (I designed the diplomas, your diploma, if you have one, BTW) says:
quote:
Know all men that The Board of Trustees has conferred upon HCW this certificate of graduation issued the 8th day of July, 1983 and has testified to the successful completion of The Way Corps training program in four years of dedicated service with pureness of heart and singleness of mind to gain an understanding of the five Way Corps Pirinciples:
The principles are listed and it includes the paragraph, "Given under the seal of The Way Colle of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus, this certificate of graduation carries with it all the honors, privileges and responsibilities thereunto appertaining."
Quite similar, huh? In fact pretty much any and every college in the country does the same thing as there are standards that accredidation boards require adherance to.
AFTER you get the certification, you have it for life.
The Way Corps Program is no different than the program of art I studied in art school. It is a course of education once you go through it it becomes a part of you. Knowledge changes you, hopefully for the better.
The biggest part of Waybrain is "willing suspension of disbelief." The same principle that allows us to actually FEEL fear when George Remero dresses up a bunch of actor in makeup & yells, "OK Roll camera!"
The biggest part of waybrain is accepting their designations. Hmmm. Since I refused to KISS LCM's foot and bow down to worship him... (oh YES you DID bow down to worship him if you stayed IN the the coprs when he sent you "the letter")...
I guess HE has the POWER to declare that I somehow DIDN'T do "the successful completion of The Way Corps training..." ???
Just what in the world IS active - - anyways?
Was I no long alive, moving, ACTIVE?
Was I no longer performing "the function" of a WC grad?
Just what in the world IS that function?
Is the Harvard graduate who works selling cars, eligible to be DFA H?????
Is the Psychology major who graduated from Duke University who decided to buy a McDonalds franchise and is now making mid six figures DFA-SHINK?
WHo in the hell gave THEM the right to define what the function of a graduate of their college is? What the funct?
I'm using the way corps as an example because its pretty easy and one of the most BLATANT examples of TWI's overbearing and overreaching ARROGANCE - stepping into areas they have now moral or even LEGAL standing to to.
Let's see. We hereby declare and DEMAND that YOU FORGETEVERYTHING YOU WERE TAUGHT OR EXPOSED TO BECAUSE WE DON'T like YOU ANYMORE.
Better yet, because YOU don't like US anymore.
IMO. a BIG part of controlling Waybrain is to STOP accepting their designations. ALL of them. Take the time to reclaim youe life. Spend time with people who speak & act "normally." Spend time with people who know NOTHING of TWI & DON'T "witness" to them.
Have confidence that GOD is in control. Believe that HE does, in fact, take take of YOU the way he takes care of birds who have no job, yet He provides them with food, shelter, etc.
Bottom line principle about time in TWI:
Proove ALL things hold fast to the GOOD.
The non Waybrain reality that I saw in you example Catcup is that YOU are a potential world class speaker just like the excellent speaker you spoke of who was speaking to you.
Farbeit from you or any of the rest od us to miss out on future messages from other excellent speakers because we detest the motives of some of our teachers and contemporaries and colleagues.
My computer is not cooperating, so I am unable to do the cut & paste quote thing, but Song asked Catcup if she were involved in any way in a high-profile TWI splinter group that he later identified as CFF. Catcup asked "on what possible grounds" Song would "have reason to believe" that she was involved in this group.
A quick check on the CFF web site shows that Research Geek [ Mr. Catcup ; - ) ] is listed as the teacher three times under the section listing "CFF Teachings".
Pushing buttons? Yes, it is annoying when you tell someone the truth and they won't accept it, and continue to badger you-- whether you've ever been in The Way International or not. That has nothing to do with "WayBrain."
True.
However, I was speaking of the response. He continued to push buttons purposefully. What sounded like, "it might be waybrain" was the "sounds like an inquisition" remark.
IMO a TOTALLY "waybrain free" response would be NO response. The reality was Yes. You did answer is question, quite succinctly I might add.
Your response to me goes right along with my position on Waybrain. In a way, in a manner of speaking, "waybrain" doesn't exist. When waybrain DOES come up, don't pay it the tribute if pronouncing it to be "There goes that ol' waybrain again..." No. I'm being annoyed by someone acting like a jerk towards me.
Then IF you choose to re-act.... DON'T react in a manner consistent with how wafers would act. React how "normal" people would act. It would be very normal to say, "Leave me alone, I already answered you, you jerk! You're just yankin' my chain."
The KEY is to react however YOU, catcup, would react. Not like a "Christian," or like a "lady," or like "anything" but you.
If there's a reality to waybrain its rests in what psychologist talk about as being negative aspects of people feeling obligated to fulfil "roles" in society. I.e: an off duty police officer feeling he must act like a hero in every situation, at times ignores a more appropriate course of action that HE might take in a situation. When he thinks of what HE, the PERSON would do, he rejects his true self in favor of the role he lives as "police officer." That's "waybrain" too but we just don't call it that.
What you spoke of in your initial example, IMO is the result of emotional injury - - a sort of PTSS. Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.
I have grown to believe that TWI systematically rapes the brains of its followers as much as they can. That results in all types of injuries. That being said, your initial example to start this thread "has nothing to do with waybrain" either.
I think it has more to do with how much you were hurt by the fact that those bastards went to such lengths to become so great at speaking and presenting - - just so they could USE people. I believe it incenses you that they wanted you to join their ranks and use & hurt others with those "techniques." I think that we all were hurt to varying degrees by our time in TWI and we all heal at different rates.
I believe "controlling waybrain" is more a matter of rahabilitation of an injury than mental discipline.
I SO totally aggree with what diazbro said. I avoided spending time with good friends from TWI for just the reason he stated. The catch phrases, terminology, etc. DO trigger people. The accepting the good ol' days can blind folks to the reality that there was NEVER a time in the history of TWI that threre weren't disputes and power struggles going on.
Ever hear of Peter Wade?
Dealing with waybrain, again IMO must be handled like rehabbing a physical injury. I'm in the 7th month of rehabbing a pretty severe knee injury. For a time I couldn't walk without crutches. I had to stay away from activities utilizing that knee. I had to make some very specific changes in my life to avoid reinjuring it, more changes to specifically attempt to strengthen it. Now I'm constantly aware that it is weaker and have to adjust my entire life accordingly.
Its healing and is much better than it was but it is not what it once was. I must proactively work on it.
Besides. There is NO SUCH THING as a high profile TWI splinter group.
I'm saying, don't let TWI define ANYthing. Any definition they use will be too grandiose, too "everything" beyond reality.
This reminds me of a concept I adopted when dealing with the divorce from my first "wife."
I always tell people, "I wouldn't believe her if she told me my name was HC!"
I give her NO credence, no quarter, no NOTHING beyond her specific spot in the universe. In other words if she happens to be right about something, cool. I'm just not giving her any place in my life.
The KEY is to react however YOU, catcup, would react. Not like a "Christian," or like a "lady," or like "anything" but you.
That is exactly what I did.
It was not well received. However, like I said previously, that's not my problem, it is his.
Also, I well understand PTSD. This happens to be my field. And, I recognized what it was for what it is.
Unfortunately for many people with PTSD, especially when it is undiagnosed, they cannot, in the middle of an episode, make the distinction between what is really happening and what is going on in their minds.
And unfortunately for anyone in their path, at times the emotion of what is going on in their minds is incorrectely transferred to the wrong person.
Talk therapy and sometimes medication (yes) can make a significant difference in reduction of the intensity of the episodes, and an increased ability to separate the episode from the reality of the situation. Unfortunately there is no cure. Just learning to deal with what comes up so that you can minimize the effects.
Not to derail..but just because Geek is listed, doesnt mean Catcup is involved...Now if their were teachings with HER name on cff website...then that would be a different story.
Anyway HCW thanks for the analogy...about the WC thing. It makes so much sense. It's almost like twitworld would love to take away our "sons of God" status. Why would God want his sons greasespots anyway?
Actually, the tactic of rephrasing questions which have already been asked and answered, is a classic inquest technique.
Again true.
The manipulator already knows that. After all, THEY are the inquisitor, right? Sometimes all the inquisitor is shooting for is your response. They feel they "hook" you and have you hooked just by the fact that you respond and acknowledge what they know THEY're doing.
I didn't put the 2 + 2 together that "Geek" was your X. It is even more clear to me now that Song was being REALLY mean to you. It may not be in your manner to "flame" somebody, and I'm not suggesting you should have... BUT
Had he come at me like that concerning an X of "mine." I may have flamed him to a crisp.
He actually came at me in a similar fashion the other day on the "VPW's Spirituality" thread. Not nearly so MEAN though (Song!) I also said, as you did, "No, I DON'T know what you mean.' he didn't tell me what he meant either.
I mean, I might have said something like;
SONG. GET OFF CATCUP'S CASE!
...something like that maybe... I mean, like , you have a right to explore this subject like anyone else. That no reason for ANYBODY to take pot-shots at you.
I'm just conversatin' with you about this stuff. Not tryin' to "confront" (uh-oh, "waybrain" strikes again) you or anybody else.
*CW standing back and thinking about things...asks herself, 'Am I about to transfer to the wrong people?'...then thinks, 'Maybe. How can I do this without transferring?'...*
For me, the turn this thread has taken is exactly how things went down in twi.
If someone is interested in what I mean...I do better not transferring if I am asked specific questions.
It was not well received. However, like I said previously, that's not my problem, it is his.
Three for three!
I trust you understand I'm only pickin' out things you said for their conversational value to the thread. I'm in no way saying you didn't handle him well.
There are, however some folks out there who would be helped to understand that there IS a TWI knee-jerk reaction to any series of questions, or even one uncomfortable question where they cry out, "INQUISITION!"
Its a conditioned reflex for some. Well deserved. So much so, we've developed defense mechanisms to protect ourselves from the TRUE waybrain, which is the process of the emotional rape.
My central point on the fondation of Waybrain is how "we" accept their ludicrous and rediculous and wholly innane, assinine, far-fetched (anybody got any more words alone this line? help a brutha out, whyDON-cha!) assertions of what reality is.
There IS a very high profile church in Tipp City. So high profile that thousands of people see it from the highway EVERY day.
Its not CFF.
I had them send me their packet of info. When I looked at it, I heard Twighlight Zone, zone... z o n e.... music playing in my head.
Talk about yer Waybrain.... WHY didn't they take the AWESOME opportunity to utilize their FAITH in GOD to come up with something actually NEW in terms of ministry?
Don't they know the the ministry model they came from FAILED, miserably? There is ONE key to the success of the first century church that EVERY ministry in the world glazes right over.
I believe that if a ministry truly wants the hand and blessing of God totally they would do it. Nobody is.
Talk therapy and sometimes medication (yes) can make a significant difference in reduction of the intensity of the episodes, and an increased ability to separate the episode from the reality of the situation. Unfortunately there is no cure. Just learning to deal with what comes up so that you can minimize the effects.
On this one I beg to differ - - a little. It may well be true there is no cure in the medical arts & sciences. I can't argue that point. I do feel however there is a spiritual "cure."
David, when he finally came to grips with where his heart had to be concerning his actinons in having his best friend killed so he could have his hot wife, prayed this:
"...take away this stony heart and replace it with an heart of flesh...." He recognized that his heart was hardened, hurt injured beyond repair and asked that God take it and replace it.
I've "been there" a couple of times in my life. Post TWI, and I just couldn't see my heart healing, etc. Not to go into the details, alone at the "end of my rope" I found the scripture passage almost by accident because I wasn;t looking for it. Didn't really know it was there. I prayed the same, got that "warm feeling" inside and it seemed to be a turning point in my life.
How do you control Waybrain? I'd suggest a good "heart healing thing." I know there is a national ministry called "Cleansing Streams" or something like that. They have a wonderful class that's held all over the country, usually in churches. My church does our own version of it regularly. It delves deep into LIFE issues and helps root our all kinds of junk and it DOES help people get healed from, "you name it."
I spoke referring to my field of practice and study.
If you want to argue the cause for God to be able to cure it, go right ahead. I am sure He can.
But I know several people who have "prayed" and "believed" that still suffer from it-- And those who could benefit from a little course of medical therapy in order to get some relief from the symptoms in order to begin to address the thought processes.
Thanks, but I can't be embarrassed by find out something I didn't know. If you're directing that at me that is.
At any rate I think it GREAT that you & your husband have the arrangement you do. Frankly it is noone's place to even comment on your relationship.
Just shows me more of how mean Song was trying to be. In keeping with my theme for todays posts I might say about:
quote:
Song (and others) seem to be under the Way-brained assumption
... that they may be under a PEA-brained assumption.... Geez. That stuff hacks me off. A woman in my small group from church told us last week how a minister told her at work. She works in a Christian Book store, they were having a little problem, he said, "I'm gonna treat you as good as I treat my wife and tell you, I DONT HAVE TO TELL YOU EVERYTHING...."
The WayBrain here is Song jumping to conclusions in a situation he knows nothing about. Also, harrassing and continuing to ask questions until he gets the answer HE wants, regardless of the truth and veracity of it.
We are NOT talking about Geek and I WOULD PREFER that we not talk about Catcup. :)--> I don't start topics just for chits and giggles. There's reasons behind it and derailing a thread that's important to me, lurkers and other recent outties is downright selfish, uncalled for and it peeves me to no end! Please keep the thread on topic.
Yes, Catcup, therapy and anti-depressants have done wonders for helping me maintain my sanity which, before leaving TWI and divorcing, I was seriously questioning. I'm also glad to have found the perfect therapist for me the first go-round. I was a total basketcase and doubt if I would have looked around to find a good therapist able to help me.
I am glad that this therapy works for you. Far more people need it than actually take it, but the outcomes for those who follow through with both talk therapy and a course of medication are much better than for those who do not.
No further argument about God's ability to heal. Of course he can. That point was just worth mentioning, I feel on the topic of controlling Waybrain and what things a person might do.
I would also add that one of the greatest failings of TWI is in how they have ALWAYS (no, it wasn't better in the 'good ol' days) always turned a blind eye to the legitimate need people have for theraputic support.
"Just go pray about it" is as way-brained as any other way-brained thing. Psycholigists are not "evil" and psychiatrists are NOT of the devil, or possessed. You won't get possessed by sitting down discussing things with a qualified professional.
Recognizing you need help to deal with way-brain is smart. I've spent time with therapists, mentors, pastors, good friends & family over the past 17 years; all helping me to deal with way brain.
That's part of what I said earlier in spend time with people who you know DON'T suffer from Way-brain. I've been "thumped" into sane thinking over a beer with the fellas just by the "normalcy" of how they thought about some of the simplest stuff.
I know there is a national ministry called "Cleansing Streams" or something like that. They have a wonderful class that's held all over the country, usually in churches. My church does our own version of it regularly.
With all due respect, HCW, I will have nothing to do with classes for a while....probably a LONG while. Especially not with a church. When I was church hopping I was surprised at the number of churches who "require" that you take their class before you're allowed to "join".
Way Brain, is awful. Every time you here a slang that you heard over and over again. Twi used very common slangs known through out the United States for those of us that were here in the United States. They used these slangs a lot of times to express a point and a lot of times very personal points that cut you in two. Then you leave, with either 9/10 your mind intact or a 1/4 left intact. Your Way Brained.
You are now out and you hear these slangs in the every day world. It cuts you to the quick and and you remember the several times you have heard this slang and used and what it meant to you and how bad it hurt or not hurt but the only thing you think of is twi which just brings a flood of emotions.
There are many things that help. Some turn to religion some turn to therapy and even are perscrbed drugs. Some just let time take its' course and try and sort things out themselves. If it is not self destructive I say who gives a flying "F". People want to be healed of way brain. Let each find there own way of dealing with it.
What a foundation to have in our times! You don't need expensive counselors when "The Way of Abundance and Power" can teach you how to live one day at a time and get control of your life. It can show you how to get out of your figurative prisons and lead a victorious life. You don't need family counseling when you know how to build and maintain a strong family, daily winning the spiritual competition by defeating your personal adversary. The teachings of this class will settle questions such as how to know you are really born again and how God can strengthen you every day. How can you not live a victorious life when you know your rights and privileges as God's son?
This quote is from the Family Tables TWI website. They flat out claim that you don't need therapy if you take their classes. Once you've had their classes, they chastise anyone who does use therapy as usig a "rent a buddy" system and paying someone to care about them. This is why so many people are so messed up when they come out of TWI and, imo, why so many people are still in TWI.
Bob says, "if you don't need therapy, you don't need religion." ;)-->
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I truthfully answered his question the first time he asked it. He could not accept it as the truth.
He continued to ask the same question several different ways, derailing the thread and behaving in a way I and others found objectionable.
Pushing buttons? Yes, it is annoying when you tell someone the truth and they won't accept it, and continue to badger you-- whether you've ever been in The Way International or not. That has nothing to do with "WayBrain."
But if he doesn't like the truth, that's his problem and not mine.
This is not the first time he has done this, and I am not the only person whom he has harassed in this manner.
Anything further on this discussion should be done through Private Topic, which Belle has requested. I think we should honor her request. This is a serious thread.
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diazbro
Way brain is usually accompanied by WaySpeak but not always. Obviously the catch phrases that go along with the way experience can trigger bad memories in ourselves and others:
"is it available","needs and wants parallel","only god can create","be vigilant", "abundant sharing","the absent christ"
On the other hand long after I abandoned wayspeak (at least I think I have) there are still periods wherein I might look down on organized religion though I usually catch myself and try to cut that part of my thinking loose. I've been out since 83 so its not such a hard thing to do anymore.
I suppose that attempting to control it in yourself and in others is a different thing. for others well let them rave on about "the hope fo glory" or "receive, retain, release". If someone is still that immersed in the way experience then chances are you couldn't talk sense to them anyway. I usually just avoid talking to them and move on. They get the message of course though they don't much care for it.
As I've mentioned before I think that the waybrain relapse is most likely to occur when you meet someone in real time who was in the Way. For some reason people get a contact high off it and start to move down memory lane which might lead to a sympathetic, "the way we were" kind of view. But thats very dangerous because it lets nostalgia and yearning for the "good ole days" overlay the reality of the experience. I know. Some of the old timers talk of "blessed times" but ever since I was involved (early 70s) there were *always* intrigues and plots going on.
The fact that others didn't notice it doesn't invalidate the fact that I did. That book "the way living in love" by E. Whiteside was a great work of fiction. I never saw TWI mentioned in that book. Sure I saw people trying to emulate it and act is if life were some utopia but the reality was much,much different. But some were like totally brain washed by it and were convinved to mold their reality , even if it meant rewriting their history , to conform with that book.
The reason I mention all this is because I do encounter people of the TWI I who are still very much in love with that time
and expect others to be also. They simply refuse to believe or
acknowledge that Vic was scamming on young women or that the power struggles (Heefner, Doop, VPW) were "that bad" or that VPW was really stealing his material from others. 9 times out of 10 its these folks that will surprise you with their use of and unabashed devotion to wayspeak and waybrain. Much more so than someone who might have just left say 2 or 3 years ago. You won't see it here so much but in person you do.
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HCW
I too am glad catcup posts here. This is one of the most important topics an x-Wafer faces, would we all agree?
I'm thinking that if there was no Waybrain to control there would be no reason for a person to leave TWI, except for, "I just don't like what they do." We do agree that "the only good wafer is an X-wafer" so to speak. Basically every one has every good reason to leave TWI because we feel TWI is damaging.
Waybrain is the centerpiece of the damage they do to individuals.
That being said. I feel that a big part of controlling waybrain is ignoring it. What??? Better communicated, perhaps, what I'm saying is give it NO place in your brain. Redefine it.
The biggest part of waybrain is how twi redefines "all of life." I.E.:
- WC gards are not Graduates of a Bible college - - They're CORPS. As a WC, somehow TWI retains the right to throw you out of "the WC household" and declare you as DFAC, "Dropped From Active Corps. Huh?
My Diploma from The Ivy School of Professional Art which hangs on my wall above my computer & desk in my office at home states the following:
It has the typed date and the handwritten signiture of the president of the school.
That format makes it a LEGAL document, confirming its declaration.
Co-inky-denteally....
My diploma from the Way College of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus (I designed the diplomas, your diploma, if you have one, BTW) says:
The principles are listed and it includes the paragraph, "Given under the seal of The Way Colle of Biblical Research, Indiana Campus, this certificate of graduation carries with it all the honors, privileges and responsibilities thereunto appertaining."
Quite similar, huh? In fact pretty much any and every college in the country does the same thing as there are standards that accredidation boards require adherance to.
AFTER you get the certification, you have it for life.
The Way Corps Program is no different than the program of art I studied in art school. It is a course of education once you go through it it becomes a part of you. Knowledge changes you, hopefully for the better.
The biggest part of Waybrain is "willing suspension of disbelief." The same principle that allows us to actually FEEL fear when George Remero dresses up a bunch of actor in makeup & yells, "OK Roll camera!"
The biggest part of waybrain is accepting their designations. Hmmm. Since I refused to KISS LCM's foot and bow down to worship him... (oh YES you DID bow down to worship him if you stayed IN the the coprs when he sent you "the letter")...
I guess HE has the POWER to declare that I somehow DIDN'T do "the successful completion of The Way Corps training..." ???
Just what in the world IS active - - anyways?
Was I no long alive, moving, ACTIVE?
Was I no longer performing "the function" of a WC grad?
Just what in the world IS that function?
Is the Harvard graduate who works selling cars, eligible to be DFA H?????
Is the Psychology major who graduated from Duke University who decided to buy a McDonalds franchise and is now making mid six figures DFA-SHINK?
WHo in the hell gave THEM the right to define what the function of a graduate of their college is? What the funct?
I'm using the way corps as an example because its pretty easy and one of the most BLATANT examples of TWI's overbearing and overreaching ARROGANCE - stepping into areas they have now moral or even LEGAL standing to to.
Let's see. We hereby declare and DEMAND that YOU FORGETEVERYTHING YOU WERE TAUGHT OR EXPOSED TO BECAUSE WE DON'T like YOU ANYMORE.
Better yet, because YOU don't like US anymore.
IMO. a BIG part of controlling Waybrain is to STOP accepting their designations. ALL of them. Take the time to reclaim youe life. Spend time with people who speak & act "normally." Spend time with people who know NOTHING of TWI & DON'T "witness" to them.
Have confidence that GOD is in control. Believe that HE does, in fact, take take of YOU the way he takes care of birds who have no job, yet He provides them with food, shelter, etc.
Bottom line principle about time in TWI:
Proove ALL things hold fast to the GOOD.
The non Waybrain reality that I saw in you example Catcup is that YOU are a potential world class speaker just like the excellent speaker you spoke of who was speaking to you.
Farbeit from you or any of the rest od us to miss out on future messages from other excellent speakers because we detest the motives of some of our teachers and contemporaries and colleagues.
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Oakspear
My computer is not cooperating, so I am unable to do the cut & paste quote thing, but Song asked Catcup if she were involved in any way in a high-profile TWI splinter group that he later identified as CFF. Catcup asked "on what possible grounds" Song would "have reason to believe" that she was involved in this group.
A quick check on the CFF web site shows that Research Geek [ Mr. Catcup ; - ) ] is listed as the teacher three times under the section listing "CFF Teachings".
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Oakspear
Good points HC. The Way Corps is a good example.
Don't let TWI define your life...good advice
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HCW
True.
However, I was speaking of the response. He continued to push buttons purposefully. What sounded like, "it might be waybrain" was the "sounds like an inquisition" remark.
IMO a TOTALLY "waybrain free" response would be NO response. The reality was Yes. You did answer is question, quite succinctly I might add.
Your response to me goes right along with my position on Waybrain. In a way, in a manner of speaking, "waybrain" doesn't exist. When waybrain DOES come up, don't pay it the tribute if pronouncing it to be "There goes that ol' waybrain again..." No. I'm being annoyed by someone acting like a jerk towards me.
Then IF you choose to re-act.... DON'T react in a manner consistent with how wafers would act. React how "normal" people would act. It would be very normal to say, "Leave me alone, I already answered you, you jerk! You're just yankin' my chain."
The KEY is to react however YOU, catcup, would react. Not like a "Christian," or like a "lady," or like "anything" but you.
If there's a reality to waybrain its rests in what psychologist talk about as being negative aspects of people feeling obligated to fulfil "roles" in society. I.e: an off duty police officer feeling he must act like a hero in every situation, at times ignores a more appropriate course of action that HE might take in a situation. When he thinks of what HE, the PERSON would do, he rejects his true self in favor of the role he lives as "police officer." That's "waybrain" too but we just don't call it that.
What you spoke of in your initial example, IMO is the result of emotional injury - - a sort of PTSS. Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome.
I have grown to believe that TWI systematically rapes the brains of its followers as much as they can. That results in all types of injuries. That being said, your initial example to start this thread "has nothing to do with waybrain" either.
I think it has more to do with how much you were hurt by the fact that those bastards went to such lengths to become so great at speaking and presenting - - just so they could USE people. I believe it incenses you that they wanted you to join their ranks and use & hurt others with those "techniques." I think that we all were hurt to varying degrees by our time in TWI and we all heal at different rates.
I believe "controlling waybrain" is more a matter of rahabilitation of an injury than mental discipline.
I SO totally aggree with what diazbro said. I avoided spending time with good friends from TWI for just the reason he stated. The catch phrases, terminology, etc. DO trigger people. The accepting the good ol' days can blind folks to the reality that there was NEVER a time in the history of TWI that threre weren't disputes and power struggles going on.
Ever hear of Peter Wade?
Dealing with waybrain, again IMO must be handled like rehabbing a physical injury. I'm in the 7th month of rehabbing a pretty severe knee injury. For a time I couldn't walk without crutches. I had to stay away from activities utilizing that knee. I had to make some very specific changes in my life to avoid reinjuring it, more changes to specifically attempt to strengthen it. Now I'm constantly aware that it is weaker and have to adjust my entire life accordingly.
Its healing and is much better than it was but it is not what it once was. I must proactively work on it.
Waybrain is similar.
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Catcup
Actually, the tactic of rephrasing questions which have already been asked and answered, is a classic inquest technique.
This is not the first time the person in question has exhibited this behavior to me, or elsewhere on this forum.
The issue with Song and that Song has lies far beyond the subject of this thread. That is why it has been requested to be addressed via Private Topic.
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HCW
Thanks Oaksie;
Besides. There is NO SUCH THING as a high profile TWI splinter group.
I'm saying, don't let TWI define ANYthing. Any definition they use will be too grandiose, too "everything" beyond reality.
This reminds me of a concept I adopted when dealing with the divorce from my first "wife."
I always tell people, "I wouldn't believe her if she told me my name was HC!"
I give her NO credence, no quarter, no NOTHING beyond her specific spot in the universe. In other words if she happens to be right about something, cool. I'm just not giving her any place in my life.
Give no place to Waybrain.
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Catcup
That is exactly what I did.
It was not well received. However, like I said previously, that's not my problem, it is his.
Also, I well understand PTSD. This happens to be my field. And, I recognized what it was for what it is.
Unfortunately for many people with PTSD, especially when it is undiagnosed, they cannot, in the middle of an episode, make the distinction between what is really happening and what is going on in their minds.
And unfortunately for anyone in their path, at times the emotion of what is going on in their minds is incorrectely transferred to the wrong person.
Talk therapy and sometimes medication (yes) can make a significant difference in reduction of the intensity of the episodes, and an increased ability to separate the episode from the reality of the situation. Unfortunately there is no cure. Just learning to deal with what comes up so that you can minimize the effects.
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smurfette
Not to derail..but just because Geek is listed, doesnt mean Catcup is involved...Now if their were teachings with HER name on cff website...then that would be a different story.
Anyway HCW thanks for the analogy...about the WC thing. It makes so much sense. It's almost like twitworld would love to take away our "sons of God" status. Why would God want his sons greasespots anyway?
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HCW
Again true.
The manipulator already knows that. After all, THEY are the inquisitor, right? Sometimes all the inquisitor is shooting for is your response. They feel they "hook" you and have you hooked just by the fact that you respond and acknowledge what they know THEY're doing.
I didn't put the 2 + 2 together that "Geek" was your X. It is even more clear to me now that Song was being REALLY mean to you. It may not be in your manner to "flame" somebody, and I'm not suggesting you should have... BUT
Had he come at me like that concerning an X of "mine." I may have flamed him to a crisp.
He actually came at me in a similar fashion the other day on the "VPW's Spirituality" thread. Not nearly so MEAN though (Song!) I also said, as you did, "No, I DON'T know what you mean.' he didn't tell me what he meant either.
I mean, I might have said something like;
SONG. GET OFF CATCUP'S CASE!
...something like that maybe... I mean, like , you have a right to explore this subject like anyone else. That no reason for ANYBODY to take pot-shots at you.
I'm just conversatin' with you about this stuff. Not tryin' to "confront" (uh-oh, "waybrain" strikes again) you or anybody else.
Good thread catcup baby!
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CoolWaters
*CW standing back and thinking about things...asks herself, 'Am I about to transfer to the wrong people?'...then thinks, 'Maybe. How can I do this without transferring?'...*
For me, the turn this thread has taken is exactly how things went down in twi.
If someone is interested in what I mean...I do better not transferring if I am asked specific questions.
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HCW
Three for three!
I trust you understand I'm only pickin' out things you said for their conversational value to the thread. I'm in no way saying you didn't handle him well.
There are, however some folks out there who would be helped to understand that there IS a TWI knee-jerk reaction to any series of questions, or even one uncomfortable question where they cry out, "INQUISITION!"
Its a conditioned reflex for some. Well deserved. So much so, we've developed defense mechanisms to protect ourselves from the TRUE waybrain, which is the process of the emotional rape.
My central point on the fondation of Waybrain is how "we" accept their ludicrous and rediculous and wholly innane, assinine, far-fetched (anybody got any more words alone this line? help a brutha out, whyDON-cha!) assertions of what reality is.
There IS a very high profile church in Tipp City. So high profile that thousands of people see it from the highway EVERY day.
Its not CFF.
I had them send me their packet of info. When I looked at it, I heard Twighlight Zone, zone... z o n e.... music playing in my head.
Talk about yer Waybrain.... WHY didn't they take the AWESOME opportunity to utilize their FAITH in GOD to come up with something actually NEW in terms of ministry?
Don't they know the the ministry model they came from FAILED, miserably? There is ONE key to the success of the first century church that EVERY ministry in the world glazes right over.
I believe that if a ministry truly wants the hand and blessing of God totally they would do it. Nobody is.
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Catcup
This post deserves a thread of it's own. Maybe I will, maybe I won't. I'm thinking on it...
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HCW
On this one I beg to differ - - a little. It may well be true there is no cure in the medical arts & sciences. I can't argue that point. I do feel however there is a spiritual "cure."
David, when he finally came to grips with where his heart had to be concerning his actinons in having his best friend killed so he could have his hot wife, prayed this:
"...take away this stony heart and replace it with an heart of flesh...." He recognized that his heart was hardened, hurt injured beyond repair and asked that God take it and replace it.
I've "been there" a couple of times in my life. Post TWI, and I just couldn't see my heart healing, etc. Not to go into the details, alone at the "end of my rope" I found the scripture passage almost by accident because I wasn;t looking for it. Didn't really know it was there. I prayed the same, got that "warm feeling" inside and it seemed to be a turning point in my life.
How do you control Waybrain? I'd suggest a good "heart healing thing." I know there is a national ministry called "Cleansing Streams" or something like that. They have a wonderful class that's held all over the country, usually in churches. My church does our own version of it regularly. It delves deep into LIFE issues and helps root our all kinds of junk and it DOES help people get healed from, "you name it."
Waybrain is part of "you name it."
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Catcup
I spoke referring to my field of practice and study.
If you want to argue the cause for God to be able to cure it, go right ahead. I am sure He can.
But I know several people who have "prayed" and "believed" that still suffer from it-- And those who could benefit from a little course of medical therapy in order to get some relief from the symptoms in order to begin to address the thought processes.
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HCW
BRAVO! catcup, bra-VO!
Thanks, but I can't be embarrassed by find out something I didn't know. If you're directing that at me that is.
At any rate I think it GREAT that you & your husband have the arrangement you do. Frankly it is noone's place to even comment on your relationship.
Just shows me more of how mean Song was trying to be. In keeping with my theme for todays posts I might say about:
... that they may be under a PEA-brained assumption.... Geez. That stuff hacks me off. A woman in my small group from church told us last week how a minister told her at work. She works in a Christian Book store, they were having a little problem, he said, "I'm gonna treat you as good as I treat my wife and tell you, I DONT HAVE TO TELL YOU EVERYTHING...."
*******.
Congrats on your 27 years!
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Belle
The WayBrain here is Song jumping to conclusions in a situation he knows nothing about. Also, harrassing and continuing to ask questions until he gets the answer HE wants, regardless of the truth and veracity of it.
We are NOT talking about Geek and I WOULD PREFER that we not talk about Catcup.
:)--> I don't start topics just for chits and giggles. There's reasons behind it and derailing a thread that's important to me, lurkers and other recent outties is downright selfish, uncalled for and it peeves me to no end! Please keep the thread on topic.
Yes, Catcup, therapy and anti-depressants have done wonders for helping me maintain my sanity which, before leaving TWI and divorcing, I was seriously questioning. I'm also glad to have found the perfect therapist for me the first go-round. I was a total basketcase and doubt if I would have looked around to find a good therapist able to help me.
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Catcup
Belle,
I am glad that this therapy works for you. Far more people need it than actually take it, but the outcomes for those who follow through with both talk therapy and a course of medication are much better than for those who do not.
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HCW
No further argument about God's ability to heal. Of course he can. That point was just worth mentioning, I feel on the topic of controlling Waybrain and what things a person might do.
I would also add that one of the greatest failings of TWI is in how they have ALWAYS (no, it wasn't better in the 'good ol' days) always turned a blind eye to the legitimate need people have for theraputic support.
"Just go pray about it" is as way-brained as any other way-brained thing. Psycholigists are not "evil" and psychiatrists are NOT of the devil, or possessed. You won't get possessed by sitting down discussing things with a qualified professional.
Recognizing you need help to deal with way-brain is smart. I've spent time with therapists, mentors, pastors, good friends & family over the past 17 years; all helping me to deal with way brain.
That's part of what I said earlier in spend time with people who you know DON'T suffer from Way-brain. I've been "thumped" into sane thinking over a beer with the fellas just by the "normalcy" of how they thought about some of the simplest stuff.
Like, don't jump to conclusions, you jerk.
Simple stuff like that.
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Belle
With all due respect, HCW, I will have nothing to do with classes for a while....probably a LONG while. Especially not with a church. When I was church hopping I was surprised at the number of churches who "require" that you take their class before you're allowed to "join".
Nope. Not for me.
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justloafing
Way Brain, is awful. Every time you here a slang that you heard over and over again. Twi used very common slangs known through out the United States for those of us that were here in the United States. They used these slangs a lot of times to express a point and a lot of times very personal points that cut you in two. Then you leave, with either 9/10 your mind intact or a 1/4 left intact. Your Way Brained.
You are now out and you hear these slangs in the every day world. It cuts you to the quick and and you remember the several times you have heard this slang and used and what it meant to you and how bad it hurt or not hurt but the only thing you think of is twi which just brings a flood of emotions.
There are many things that help. Some turn to religion some turn to therapy and even are perscrbed drugs. Some just let time take its' course and try and sort things out themselves. If it is not self destructive I say who gives a flying "F". People want to be healed of way brain. Let each find there own way of dealing with it.
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Belle
This quote is from the Family Tables TWI website. They flat out claim that you don't need therapy if you take their classes. Once you've had their classes, they chastise anyone who does use therapy as usig a "rent a buddy" system and paying someone to care about them. This is why so many people are so messed up when they come out of TWI and, imo, why so many people are still in TWI.
Bob says, "if you don't need therapy, you don't need religion."
;)-->
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Belle
Please check your private topics.
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