Play lot's of Rok N Roll really really loudCeltic Music as it's mood indicates and takes many a walks 'pon the oceans edge and listen to the waves breath during every type of wind you can stand.
Oh and uhh yeah Belle, if ya ever have a chance during a straight down real gray rain and gray ocean on the oceans edge, get real naked and dance and sing and shout 'pon the sand untill the rains dissipate and have some one close witness your crazy free soul!!!
I recently attended an educational seminar and a training session for group leaders (totally unrelated to the bible-- it's a medical thing), and I had a hard time wrestling with my brain during the main speaker's presentation and certain parts of the leader's training.
Why?
The speaker was an internationally known person who was an expert in her field.
Why did I have such a problem listening to her?
Well, for the simple fact that, it was public speaking which included motivational techniqes.
The incidents were expertly used in order to draw the listener's attention, and placed strategically throughout the presentation in order to drive home specific important points and to inspire motivation.
She gave an excellent presentation also, on coordinating a group of people, and how to handle various types of people that would be in that group and what to do in different situations that might arise.
She delivered an immaculate presentation, kept everyone's attention, and imparted knowlege critical to the field.
But why did it bug me so?
Because I could recognize every public speaking tool she utilized as tools we were taught in The Way Corps to apply while teaching and in counseling.
The speaker I attended in no way was motivated by greed or strife, was not there to twist people's arms, or to sell them a class. It was medically related.
But it got under my skin to no end, because the speaker was using tools that TWI had also used and taught, but TWI used them to hurt people.
And I found it very hard, just to listen. Because I would hear something and know exactly why she was using a certain incident or relating something in a certain way. I knew where she was going with everything before she got there. I understood the structure of her presentation and her goals from beginning to end. I knew where she was going and why.
I wish I could have just sat back and listened to the presentation and enjoyed it for what it was, without recognizing every little public speaking tool that was used.
Because, along with that recognition, a bad feeling comes in the back way. A feeling I cannot ignore. Like I'm being sold a bill of goods, that there is something fake about it all, that the person on stage is a huckster, and I need to tune out the message instead of tune into it.
It ticks me off that this happens. But yeah, that's a kind of Waybrain.
I thought it was interesting to note, that even when the information being presented was true, and had absolutely nothing to do with The Way International or the content of what they teach, the way in which it was presented made my skin crawl-- even though it was true, beneficial, and life-saving information.
At least I had the good sense to realize the problem was with me and how I processed what was presented, and not with the speaker or the content of what was communicated.
Well...Life is comprised of experiences...and each experience impacts us in one degree or another. I understand what Catcup is talking about...there are nuances and subtleties all around us. I've had similar experiences where I will see some sort of "professional presentation" and my mind goes back in a way similar to Catcup's...
...but let me say...my mind is so far removed from those days that even when I recognize some subtle thought that was influenced by twi...it really doesn't bother me anymore.
When trying to "control" waybrain, don't make the mistake of sweeping it under the rug and allowing it to become repressed...it's better to deal with it head on, draw some conclusions and resolve some issues within yourself...that's why GreaseSpot is so therapuetic.
...but let me say...my mind is so far removed from those days that even when I recognize some subtle thought that was influenced by twi...it really doesn't bother me anymore.
GrouchoMarxJr,
are you in any way involved with a high profile splinter group of TWI?
I figured I wasn't alone in this reaction, and that's why I talked about it here. When it happened, I immediately knew why it was happening-- it just frustrated me that it got in the way of enjoying the presentation more fully.
I still got all the information I needed from the seminar, and was able to separate the "feelings" from the speaker and the presentation, and identify the source of those feelings. I can see how some folks might not be able to do that, and would mistakenly transfer those feelings to the speaker.
It just frustrated me that I had to deal with that coming up at all, when I thought I was finally beyond the reach of TWI's tentacles. It amazes me how this many years later, I still get surprised once in a while by what floats up when some random trigger occurs.
I look forward to the day when like, you, it will be a distant thought that no longer bothers me. Until then, I am careful to identify the true souce of the irritation, and not transfer it to an innocent party.
How do you control waybrain? Do you still have it? Does it sneak up on your or trigger responses unexpectedly?
The longer I am out the further it gets away, it has taken some time, and like Catcup, learning to separate out the triggers and the responses, recognizing what they are and then redeveloping and readapting again from the inside...has been a big help..
dancing in the rain sounds like a good idea, as well as exposing yourself to many different forms of stimuli and people-and then watching how you respond-the pavlovian reactions sort of wash away over time as you let it go and gain awareness..
just the fact that you recognized when you dipped into it I think is the big step and the most important part of the process
Thanks, y'all! I really appreciate the wisdom and the amount of things people are willing to share on here.
i still don't always recognize the techniques being used to be able to separate them from TWI but I do find myself tying to "read between the lines" for messages that most likely aren't there. We got so adept at heeding unspoken rules in TWI that I sometimes find myself thinking, "what is he REALLY trying to say?" instead of taking people at face value.
Now, if I could only recognize it before putting my mouth or fingers in gear. :D-->
Catcup... I had a similar experience recently... graduation ceremony where the speaker was trying to motivate his student listeners to continue learning in life... good message, but I did what you did: saw it all coming a mile away, saw every technique (yes, your corps training kicking in!!) The only good thing is that it didn't upset me, it just made it hard to listen.
Belle... like you, when I heard this presentation, I suddenly had a hard time liking or trusting the speaker. Even though I KNEW he was a good guy, with good intentions toward the students he was addressing, the back of my brain kept up a constant chant of "is this the cheesiest, most predictable speech you've ever heard? Isn't it obvious to everyone its just a pep talk?"
It didn't occur to me until reading this thread that probably most of the adults in the audience, while recognizing a pep talk when they heard it, didn't pick the thing apart and instantly dislike the speaker!
Don't worry about the way-brain... every time it happens and YOU RECOGNIZE IT for what it is... that's progress!!!
About 10 or 11 years ago I was the president of an Optimist club. We had to attend "Region Meetings" 4 times a year. They were meetings to see how each club was progressing during that year. The head of the region was a d*ck head too.
It reminded me so much of twi it was scary. After one meeting I ran back to my room at the hotel and threw up. The next day I left before the meetings started. Once I got over that and knew what to expect I was fine for the next meeting but it was not fun all the same.
To this day I still do not want to go to any type of meeting. I know nobody that were in any of the Optomist meetings probably ever heard of that funny little cult in the Ohio corn fields but just how things were run made me sick one time.
One of the most common waybrain's for me is feeling a false sense of responsibility about something/anything that comes over me sometimes. It's very subtle.
Fortunately, those times are farther and farther between, but it's still irritating when I find myself doing it.
Waybrain appears and rears it's sometimes ugly (and sometimes not so ugly) head all the time, and in different guises.
At times, like Catcup's example, it is a reaction against TWI-like words or actions. For example, I get VERY perturbed when someone makes pronouncements as if they were the "all-truth". A friend of Reikilady's that I interact with on a regular basis talks about her beliefs as if those who don't agree are blind idiots. My mind flashes back to TWI's teachings about "the only place that the word is taught" and brsistle.
For a long time my management style was very similar to the worst Way Corps' leadership style. Acting like that has negatively affected my rate of advancement. It took a lot of time and effort to change those habit patterns.
Another aspect of Waybrain is vocabulary. This is something that I have to work on all the time. I've got a large enough vocabulary (in fact I get the evil eye from time to time from a few folks for occassionally using "big words"), but sometimes the "wayspeak", or a TWI greek word, offers the easiest way to make a point. Especially when posting here amongst all you ex-wayfers! For example, for most of you, the word "ginosko" would be an understandable substitute for "know by experience". Every once in a while I get stuck and can't think of a non-wayspeak word for a concept. Just the other day I was trying to explain something and could not find a more concise explanation than "sunesis", but had to give a long explanation about two rivers flowing together because the listener wouldn't have known what "sunesis" meant!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Play lot's of Rok N Roll really really loud Celtic Music as it's mood indicates and takes many a walks 'pon the oceans edge and listen to the waves breath during every type of wind you can stand.
AND LAUGH AND CRY ALOT FROM YOUR SOUL OF HEART
I'm just a
Song man
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Oh and uhh yeah Belle, if ya ever have a chance during a straight down real gray rain and gray ocean on the oceans edge, get real naked and dance and sing and shout 'pon the sand untill the rains dissipate and have some one close witness your crazy free soul!!!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Feel your heart
Listen to your body
And try hard to understand
The beat of your heart
in your hand
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
I've seen a person dine with his feet, using all the utinsils and the glasses at an elegant table setting as if the feet and legs were arms~~~
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CoolWaters
Well, Belle Darlene, in his own special way, Song's got it right...
Just do something totally different and totally unacceptable to twi brain.
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Belle
Well I'm not on the beach, but it IS starting to rain. Maybe Vixen and I will dance in the backyard together in our natural states.
:D-->
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CoolWaters
I want pictures!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
The rain has to cover like clothing, otherwise ya might as well walk around in a Publix grocery store nude
with a cup of steaming hot coffee
and a hand held basket in one arm!!!
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Catcup
I recently attended an educational seminar and a training session for group leaders (totally unrelated to the bible-- it's a medical thing), and I had a hard time wrestling with my brain during the main speaker's presentation and certain parts of the leader's training.
Why?
The speaker was an internationally known person who was an expert in her field.
Why did I have such a problem listening to her?
Well, for the simple fact that, it was public speaking which included motivational techniqes.
The incidents were expertly used in order to draw the listener's attention, and placed strategically throughout the presentation in order to drive home specific important points and to inspire motivation.
She gave an excellent presentation also, on coordinating a group of people, and how to handle various types of people that would be in that group and what to do in different situations that might arise.
She delivered an immaculate presentation, kept everyone's attention, and imparted knowlege critical to the field.
But why did it bug me so?
Because I could recognize every public speaking tool she utilized as tools we were taught in The Way Corps to apply while teaching and in counseling.
The speaker I attended in no way was motivated by greed or strife, was not there to twist people's arms, or to sell them a class. It was medically related.
But it got under my skin to no end, because the speaker was using tools that TWI had also used and taught, but TWI used them to hurt people.
And I found it very hard, just to listen. Because I would hear something and know exactly why she was using a certain incident or relating something in a certain way. I knew where she was going with everything before she got there. I understood the structure of her presentation and her goals from beginning to end. I knew where she was going and why.
I wish I could have just sat back and listened to the presentation and enjoyed it for what it was, without recognizing every little public speaking tool that was used.
Because, along with that recognition, a bad feeling comes in the back way. A feeling I cannot ignore. Like I'm being sold a bill of goods, that there is something fake about it all, that the person on stage is a huckster, and I need to tune out the message instead of tune into it.
It ticks me off that this happens. But yeah, that's a kind of Waybrain.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Splinter TWI are the same way~~~
or as I like to say
"TWIsterSisters"~~~
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Catcup
I thought it was interesting to note, that even when the information being presented was true, and had absolutely nothing to do with The Way International or the content of what they teach, the way in which it was presented made my skin crawl-- even though it was true, beneficial, and life-saving information.
At least I had the good sense to realize the problem was with me and how I processed what was presented, and not with the speaker or the content of what was communicated.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Well...Life is comprised of experiences...and each experience impacts us in one degree or another. I understand what Catcup is talking about...there are nuances and subtleties all around us. I've had similar experiences where I will see some sort of "professional presentation" and my mind goes back in a way similar to Catcup's...
...but let me say...my mind is so far removed from those days that even when I recognize some subtle thought that was influenced by twi...it really doesn't bother me anymore.
When trying to "control" waybrain, don't make the mistake of sweeping it under the rug and allowing it to become repressed...it's better to deal with it head on, draw some conclusions and resolve some issues within yourself...that's why GreaseSpot is so therapuetic.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
GrouchoMarxJr,
are you in any way involved with a high profile splinter group of TWI?
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GrouchoMarxJr
Song my friend...I am not involved with a high (or a low) profile splinter group...I'm an independant sort, these days...
:P-->
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Catcup
Thanks Groucho.
I figured I wasn't alone in this reaction, and that's why I talked about it here. When it happened, I immediately knew why it was happening-- it just frustrated me that it got in the way of enjoying the presentation more fully.
I still got all the information I needed from the seminar, and was able to separate the "feelings" from the speaker and the presentation, and identify the source of those feelings. I can see how some folks might not be able to do that, and would mistakenly transfer those feelings to the speaker.
It just frustrated me that I had to deal with that coming up at all, when I thought I was finally beyond the reach of TWI's tentacles. It amazes me how this many years later, I still get surprised once in a while by what floats up when some random trigger occurs.
I look forward to the day when like, you, it will be a distant thought that no longer bothers me. Until then, I am careful to identify the true souce of the irritation, and not transfer it to an innocent party.
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mstar1
The longer I am out the further it gets away, it has taken some time, and like Catcup, learning to separate out the triggers and the responses, recognizing what they are and then redeveloping and readapting again from the inside...has been a big help..
dancing in the rain sounds like a good idea, as well as exposing yourself to many different forms of stimuli and people-and then watching how you respond-the pavlovian reactions sort of wash away over time as you let it go and gain awareness..
just the fact that you recognized when you dipped into it I think is the big step and the most important part of the process
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Belle
Thanks, y'all! I really appreciate the wisdom and the amount of things people are willing to share on here.
i still don't always recognize the techniques being used to be able to separate them from TWI but I do find myself tying to "read between the lines" for messages that most likely aren't there. We got so adept at heeding unspoken rules in TWI that I sometimes find myself thinking, "what is he REALLY trying to say?" instead of taking people at face value.
Now, if I could only recognize it before putting my mouth or fingers in gear.
:D-->
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TheHighWay
Catcup... I had a similar experience recently... graduation ceremony where the speaker was trying to motivate his student listeners to continue learning in life... good message, but I did what you did: saw it all coming a mile away, saw every technique (yes, your corps training kicking in!!) The only good thing is that it didn't upset me, it just made it hard to listen.
Belle... like you, when I heard this presentation, I suddenly had a hard time liking or trusting the speaker. Even though I KNEW he was a good guy, with good intentions toward the students he was addressing, the back of my brain kept up a constant chant of "is this the cheesiest, most predictable speech you've ever heard? Isn't it obvious to everyone its just a pep talk?"
It didn't occur to me until reading this thread that probably most of the adults in the audience, while recognizing a pep talk when they heard it, didn't pick the thing apart and instantly dislike the speaker!
Don't worry about the way-brain... every time it happens and YOU RECOGNIZE IT for what it is... that's progress!!!
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justloafing
About 10 or 11 years ago I was the president of an Optimist club. We had to attend "Region Meetings" 4 times a year. They were meetings to see how each club was progressing during that year. The head of the region was a d*ck head too.
It reminded me so much of twi it was scary. After one meeting I ran back to my room at the hotel and threw up. The next day I left before the meetings started. Once I got over that and knew what to expect I was fine for the next meeting but it was not fun all the same.
To this day I still do not want to go to any type of meeting. I know nobody that were in any of the Optomist meetings probably ever heard of that funny little cult in the Ohio corn fields but just how things were run made me sick one time.
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
Catcup,
are you in any way involved with a high profile splinter group of TWI?
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TheSongRemainsTheSame
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Catcup
No, I am not. I do my own thing and enjoy my independence.
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waterbuffalo
Belle, all,
One of the most common waybrain's for me is feeling a false sense of responsibility about something/anything that comes over me sometimes. It's very subtle.
Fortunately, those times are farther and farther between, but it's still irritating when I find myself doing it.
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Oakspear
Waybrain appears and rears it's sometimes ugly (and sometimes not so ugly) head all the time, and in different guises.
At times, like Catcup's example, it is a reaction against TWI-like words or actions. For example, I get VERY perturbed when someone makes pronouncements as if they were the "all-truth". A friend of Reikilady's that I interact with on a regular basis talks about her beliefs as if those who don't agree are blind idiots. My mind flashes back to TWI's teachings about "the only place that the word is taught" and brsistle.
For a long time my management style was very similar to the worst Way Corps' leadership style. Acting like that has negatively affected my rate of advancement. It took a lot of time and effort to change those habit patterns.
Another aspect of Waybrain is vocabulary. This is something that I have to work on all the time. I've got a large enough vocabulary (in fact I get the evil eye from time to time from a few folks for occassionally using "big words"), but sometimes the "wayspeak", or a TWI greek word, offers the easiest way to make a point. Especially when posting here amongst all you ex-wayfers! For example, for most of you, the word "ginosko" would be an understandable substitute for "know by experience". Every once in a while I get stuck and can't think of a non-wayspeak word for a concept. Just the other day I was trying to explain something and could not find a more concise explanation than "sunesis", but had to give a long explanation about two rivers flowing together because the listener wouldn't have known what "sunesis" meant!
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