Excuse me, but you do appear to be beating your self-righteous drum in the fact that you are the only one who has even attempted to "master" pfal (or is that you have mastered it??).
You constantly deny the fact that there are hundreds, if not thousands, who have bettered their life AFTER pfal. You say it cannot be true without mastering pfal. This very cultish attitude is what drives people away from your madness.
I'm really glad that you know soooo much about a lot of us without really knowing us. -->
Sometimes it takes getting out of the cult to realize you were actually in one.
It was not worth it for them to be hurt and then to only get a TVT out of the deal. I'm sure that's all they got, so I expect them to feel NOT thankful.
If they had mastered the teaching, instead of the social scene like most of us (me included) did, then they would have been able to thwart the incidents, or at least be less hurt by them.
If they had read the Scheoheit article they might have pointed their hurt in God's direction and gotten healed.
I know that no one got PFAL down accurately, so I'm sure the hurt ones feel ripped of.
The ONLY way we can help theim (instead of adding fuel to their fires) is by US mastering PFAL and giving them another chance to see Christ alive in us. Becoming hateful like them only helps keep them far from God's healing.
I have not in any way completed the mastering I need to do and am capable of.
The fellowship I attend is the only one in the world (that I know of) that studies Dr's books and articles and ONLY those materials. I have searched for 7 years for another fellowship, or even one other person, who focuses on MASTERING those materials.
There are many proPFAL fellowships, but they are attempting to master their KJVs still, and only refer to the collaterals. Sometimes their reference is high volume, but usually it's low.
If you know of even ONE grad out there that literally believes PFAL, that it is God's Word as it claims, then please connect us.
You wrote: "I suppose then, you believe, that whatever these women went through at the hands of your idol, was WORTH IT because of what YOU got out of it. __ Regardless of the wreckage it made of other lives. __ I cannot think of anything more selfish."
If I thought that way I'd be ashamed of myself, or SHOULD be.
I do NOT think that way. How could you think that evil of me? I know... by not paying attention to my posts.
If you only knew me you'd feel ashamed for thinking that way. I have three sisters.
If you only knew the suffering I too have felt because of the screwed up sex doctrines that ran through the TVTs I got stuck in. I choose not to discuss the details. Behind the scenes I have approached excathedra and shown her how I too was hurt, not in the same ways, but very hurt nonetheless. Have you ever wondered why she and I don't duke it out here like you and I are now? It's because I feel for her and her hurt. I can relate.
When I told you about the Scheonheit article, it's because I too had to get my mind on what God's Word says about men of God who mess up, and reject my own hurt feelings. That article helped me long ago and I never forgot it. I wasn't physically hurt, but emotionally and mentally I STILL have to deal with it.
There are many roads to God, and MANY are ways to successfully get to Him. He does not limit Himself to a format like pfal, nor does He limit Himself through a man like vpw.
Comparing veep to David is crooked logic...David repented and did not keep doing it over and over and over again...and did not pass on the 'mantle' of such a legacy as rape, adultery, fornication, etc.
Have you read the Scheonheit article? Do you disagree with his findings?
The men who carried out David's orders to abandon Uriah knew something was very odd, at least. Bathsheba knew who knocked her up. You think she told NOBODY? Baloney. Plenty of people knew. Uriah made a public spectacle of NOT sleeping with her when he was home on leave. You don't think people were capable of putting two and two together?
Do you need a Bible verse to see these obvious things? I don't. They are CLEARLY implied. I'd need verses to say they did NOT happen before I'd even consider that. We were taught to think this way in the Orientalisms class. Unless it clearly stated otherwise, we can assume that Oriental customs were followed. Well this is much more universal than oriental customs; this is Human customs.
After Nathan's confrontation EVERYONE KNEW. All of Uriah's relatives knew EXACTLY what happened by then.
They knew and had to make decisions! You can NOT deny this.
***
I know no good man sinks to knocking up a best friend's wife and then murdering him without first having scalded his conscience with many dastardly deeds. Many people either saw these things, or even worse were victims.
I know no man, even one who repents, totally eradicates the remnants of such a seared conscience. I know David sinned again, even though it's not recorded. I'll bet my life on it, and not loose a wink of sleep.
I also know that David's bad example was kept alive by the adversary (like Dr's sins here) to help him steer people away from the Psalms. In the process another devilish effect took hold: many people picked up on it and thought "Well the King did it, I can do it too." This human dynamic is so common that, like the above items, I'd need a verse to say it did NOT happen before I'd even consider that anomaly.
David's son Solomon picked up on it and also became a jerk on many occasions in his later life. Again, I got this from the OT History class.
God will judge Dr righteously, but I'm sure he already suffered some consequences for his sin. Nobody gets away with anything, especially in the long run. I've posted to this often, and right from the start.
I'm sure many others did and will read your long post on the previous page. They may not post their thankfulness, wanting not to enter this battlefield, but they will bless you with prayer and maybe even a private e-mail. Thank you again for such a heartfelt piece of writing. God bless you greatly.
The men who carried out David's orders knew something was very odd, at least.
That's a few people running errands, bringing food and Barry
White albums. David was careful in this business-I would expect him to be
smart enough to use people who could keep a secret. (vpw certainly did-
and he got away with serial rape and molestation.)
The order to kill Uriah was sealed and known to one commanding
officer.
Do I think word got around his staff? No, and there's no evidence to make
any comment OTHERWISE to be anything beyond SPECULATION and GUESSWORK.
quote:
Bathsheba knew who knocked her up. You don't think she told anyone?
Let's see....
I might be killed if I tell someone, if I tell someone, THEY might get
killed, a deliberate attempt to make my child look like my husband's child
is in play, the penalty for adultery is STONING...
I would expect Bathsheba to keep her mouth SHUT.
The PROPER thing was never to commit adultery in the first place, but having
sinned, I expect she wasnt stupid.
quote:
You don't think people were capable of putting two and two together?
To put two and two together, you need two and two. To know two, you must
first know one.
There is no evidence-beyond your speculation-that anyone knew who was
willing to talk. If anyone other than God and Nathan knew, the Word of
God remains SILENT on that issue. "Where the Word of God remains silent,
he who speaks is a fool." (vpw)
quote:
Do you need a Bible verse to see these obvious things?
I believe I made a STRONGER argument AGAINST than you made FOR.
It didn't require deep scholarship, either.
quote:
I don't. They are CLEARLY implied.
That means there was an IMPLICATION, but you posted a SPECULATION.
They're 2 different things that are not interchangeable.
If it's so "clear", there would be a "smoking gun" verse.
quote:
I know no man sinks to murder without first having scalded his conscience first with many dastardly deeds.
I don't claim to know the mind of a murderer that well. However, there have
been things called "crimes of passion" where a moment's "hot blood" is
heeded and a felony is committed, assault, battery, destruction of property,
or murder. I'm not a criminologist nor criminal psychologist.
NEITHER ARE YOU. Please don't consider yourself an "expert on everything"-
we had our fill of that in twi.
quote:
I know no man, even one who repents, totally eradicates the remnants of such a seared conscience. I know David sinned again, even though it's not recorded.
Are we talking "committed adultery in his heart"
sins, "fibbed to his wife" sins- which are one thing,
or "he committed adultery again and killed ANOTHER man to cover it" sins?
Big difference.
I expect he did the first- the second, I'd insist on seeing it line by
line.
quote:
I'll bet my life on it, and not loose a wink of sleep.
I also know that David's bad example was kept alive by the adversary. Many people picked up on it and thought "Well the King did it, I can do it too."
Maybe. I'd buy that some people found the timing suspicious, and would
SUSPECT-especially after Nathan had an "executive session" with David whose
minutes were sealed, but they wouldn't KNOW.
quote:
This human dynamic is so common, that, like the above items, I'd need a verse to say it did NOT happen before I'd even consider that anomaly.
Well, we have different thresholds for accuracy, but that hardly
qualifies as news.
quote:
David's son Solomon picked up and also became a jerk on many occasions in his later life.
It's in the Bible. I'm aware of it.
quote:
Again, I got this from Scheonheits OT History class.
I dont need a class, tape or textbook to learn EVERYTHING.
quote:
Go argue with him and see how far you get.
Schoenheit's picking a fight with me? I didn't see him post.
IF, IF, IF,
Schoenheit made the claim you did-that David's entire staff knew and that
Uriah's family KNEW (not suspected), then I'd respectfully disagree with
him on the grounds I posted. I still wouldn't "argue", and I suspect he's
classier than that himself.
However, I'd prefer Schoenheit make such a claim himself before I said I
disagreed with him.
I do not believe ANY teacher short of Jesus Christ HIMSELF is incapable of
error, nor would I expect them to be, nor would I expect them to think
THEY are. (If they do, there's the FIRST error right there.)
The article is "David's Mighty Men" from an early 80's Way Magazine issue.
I posted this just a few hours ago, but you missed it, among many other things. You only look for what you can pounce on in my posts, like I bemoaned earlier.
Remember:
After Nathan's confrontation, EVERYONE knew. Uriah's relatives had to decide whether to go with the flow of negative emotion, or go with God and His spokesman. A few made the right decision.
That's my MAIN point here in response to Catcup mentioning that her sister was hurt.
Oh-you changed your post after I read it. Hang on....
I'll skip commenting on what I already commented on....
quote:
Originally posted by Mike:
WW,
Have you read the Scheonheit article? Do you disagree with his findings?
The men who carried out David's orders to abandon Uriah knew something was very odd, at least. Bathsheba knew who knocked her up. You think she told NOBODY?
Baloney.
I find the overt stupidity attributed to Bathsheba running to tell her friends here
insupportable.
quote:
Plenty of people knew.
You believe plenty of people knew.
quote:
Uriah made a public spectacle of NOT sleeping with her when he was home on leave.
He notified the locals "I'm back and I'm not sleeping with my wife?"
I expect a few people noticed, but-unless they followed him around-they had no
way of knowing if he went home for an hour here or there.
It IS possible to arrive surreptitiously to a residence, have conjugal relations
with someone, and leave quietly as well. That's not a new activity.
quote:
You don't think people were capable of putting two and two together?
Did some people SUSPECT? I'd expect so.
Did they have PROOF? That's a whole other matter.
quote:
Do you need a Bible verse to see these obvious things? I don't. They are CLEARLY implied. I'd need verses to say they did NOT happen before I'd even consider that.
You suspect they knew. Some of them SUSPECTED David.
Suspicion is not PROOF.
quote:
We were taught to think this way in the Orientalisms class. Unless it clearly stated otherwise, we can assume that Oriental customs were followed. Well this is much more universal than oriental customs; this is Human customs.
Jumping to conclusions IS a human custom-I agree.
quote:
After Nathan's confrontation EVERYONE KNEW. All of Uriah's relatives knew EXACTLY what happened by then.
Nathan made an announcement in the Town Square?
David made an announcement in the Town Square?
I missed that verse...
quote:
They knew and had to make decisions! You can NOT deny this.
You STILL haven't supported your statement.
***
I know no good man sinks to knocking up a best friend's wife and then murdering him without first having scalded his conscience with many dastardly deeds. Many people either saw these things, or even worse were victims.
I know no man, even one who repents, totally eradicates the remnants of such a seared conscience. I know David sinned again, even though it's not recorded. I'll bet my life on it, and not loose a wink of sleep.
I also know that David's bad example was kept alive by the adversary (like Dr's sins here)
Now we get to the REAL reason for this post. It's NOT about David, it's about
vpw and his sins. Was that supposed to be surreptitious?
quote:
to help him steer people away from the Psalms.
Nathan's reproof-which is in the Bible-mentions something along
these lines. David had to go an awful long way to restore his good graces and
redeem his own reputation and that of the nation.
quote:
In the process another devilish effect took hold: many people picked up on it and thought "Well the King did it, I can do it too." This human dynamic is so common that, like the above items, I'd need a verse to say it did NOT happen before I'd even consider that anomaly.
Gee, if they got that far, they could follow the logic all the way.
"The King tried it and got NAILED-his son died and everything.
If HE couldn't get away with it, what chance would I have?"
quote:
David's son Solomon picked up on it and also became a jerk on many occasions in his later life. Again, I got this from the OT History class.
Looks like you're saying Solomon's sins are specifically the consequence of
finding out David committed adultery and murder.
Since he wasn't born yet,
I find this very difficult to support.
Again, got a Bible verse, or is this something you find indisputable about
The article is "David's Mighty Men" from an early 80's Way Magazine issue.
I posted this just a few hours ago, but you missed it, among many other things.
No, I thought you were talking about a different article, because you now were
making blind references to an article without posting the article. I overestimated
your ability.
Usually, the name "Schoenheit" around here is used in conjunction with the
Adultery paper. I didnt jump to the conclusion that you meant that either-I ASKED.
quote:
You only look for what you can pounce on in my posts, like I bemoaned earlier.
You bemoaned it, but I do read your posts for content, such as they are.
Otherwise, I'd never comment on the substance of your claims.
quote:
Remember:
After Nathan's confrontation, EVERYONE knew. Uriah's relatives had to decide whether to go with the flow of negative emotion, or go with God and His spokesman. A few made the right decision.
That's my MAIN point here in response to Catcup mentioning that her sister was hurt.
That's your main CLAIM.
Your sole support to that claim-offered only when I insisted-
is that Schoenheit supposedly said so in an article.
Having seen what you do to the Blue Book and the others,
I trust you LESS than the average person on such a claim,
and I'd demand the exact quote from the AVERAGE person.
(I do that all the time when I'm not on this website, in fact.)
So, are you going to reproduce this article here,
continue to say "it agrees with me" but not produce it,
or change the subject and pronounce victory?
I'd prefer the first option, but I'm expecting one or both of the others,
I don't feel like looking for the article, scanning it, correcting scanning errors and all that. It's not necessary.
Uriah's relatives knew what David did. They had to make a decision. A few made the right decision and were included in a list of "David's mighty men." You might be able to find it via a concordance. That's the essence of what he wrote. It's very simple.
Every time I've brought this up it's the very simple point of Uriah's relatives needing to make a crucial decision. It's the same today. We all need to make a crucial decision of whether of not we're going to focus on and amplify negative emotions regarding Dr's sin, or are we going to focus on the Word God taught him and he taught us.
I aplogize for my bad habit of radicaly editing my pieces after posting them. I just always see typos and better ways of saying things after seeing them on the board.
Maybe I should do a practice post in the PT forum just to see the board layout and there do my editing. In the heat of the moment I often prematurely post. I'll try to stop that. I imagine it must be annoying.
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Mike
Do you remember the Scheonheit article?
It was titled "David's Mighty Men" I think.
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Nottawayfer
Mike,
Excuse me, but you do appear to be beating your self-righteous drum in the fact that you are the only one who has even attempted to "master" pfal (or is that you have mastered it??).
You constantly deny the fact that there are hundreds, if not thousands, who have bettered their life AFTER pfal. You say it cannot be true without mastering pfal. This very cultish attitude is what drives people away from your madness.
I'm really glad that you know soooo much about a lot of us without really knowing us.
-->
Sometimes it takes getting out of the cult to realize you were actually in one.
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Mike
Catcup,
It was not worth it for them to be hurt and then to only get a TVT out of the deal. I'm sure that's all they got, so I expect them to feel NOT thankful.
If they had mastered the teaching, instead of the social scene like most of us (me included) did, then they would have been able to thwart the incidents, or at least be less hurt by them.
If they had read the Scheoheit article they might have pointed their hurt in God's direction and gotten healed.
I know that no one got PFAL down accurately, so I'm sure the hurt ones feel ripped of.
The ONLY way we can help theim (instead of adding fuel to their fires) is by US mastering PFAL and giving them another chance to see Christ alive in us. Becoming hateful like them only helps keep them far from God's healing.
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Mike
Lorna,
I'm so sorry to have ploughed right past your post. In this flurry I didn't even see if until it was buried.
May I suggest that you copy it to a file, and then re-post if when this flurry subsides.
It looks like yo put a lot of work into you post, and more people will see if if you just re-post it later.
It looks interesting, and I'd like to study it.
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Mike
Wafer Not!,
I have not in any way completed the mastering I need to do and am capable of.
The fellowship I attend is the only one in the world (that I know of) that studies Dr's books and articles and ONLY those materials. I have searched for 7 years for another fellowship, or even one other person, who focuses on MASTERING those materials.
There are many proPFAL fellowships, but they are attempting to master their KJVs still, and only refer to the collaterals. Sometimes their reference is high volume, but usually it's low.
If you know of even ONE grad out there that literally believes PFAL, that it is God's Word as it claims, then please connect us.
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Mike
Lorna,
Bravo! I just read your long post above.
I wish we could all post like that, with tender hearts. ...SOMEday!
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LG
Or maybe the statement is simply not true.
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Mike
I am working of getting a deeper understanding of the statement by searching ALL of what God's Word says on the same subject.
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Mike
Catcup,
You wrote: "I suppose then, you believe, that whatever these women went through at the hands of your idol, was WORTH IT because of what YOU got out of it. __ Regardless of the wreckage it made of other lives. __ I cannot think of anything more selfish."
If I thought that way I'd be ashamed of myself, or SHOULD be.
I do NOT think that way. How could you think that evil of me? I know... by not paying attention to my posts.
If you only knew me you'd feel ashamed for thinking that way. I have three sisters.
If you only knew the suffering I too have felt because of the screwed up sex doctrines that ran through the TVTs I got stuck in. I choose not to discuss the details. Behind the scenes I have approached excathedra and shown her how I too was hurt, not in the same ways, but very hurt nonetheless. Have you ever wondered why she and I don't duke it out here like you and I are now? It's because I feel for her and her hurt. I can relate.
When I told you about the Scheonheit article, it's because I too had to get my mind on what God's Word says about men of God who mess up, and reject my own hurt feelings. That article helped me long ago and I never forgot it. I wasn't physically hurt, but emotionally and mentally I STILL have to deal with it.
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Nottawayfer
Nope, Mike, I do believe you are one of a kind. Dr. Wierwille will be giving you a crown at the bema.
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Nottawayfer
There are many roads to God, and MANY are ways to successfully get to Him. He does not limit Himself to a format like pfal, nor does He limit Himself through a man like vpw.
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CoolWaters
Comparing veep to David is crooked logic...David repented and did not keep doing it over and over and over again...and did not pass on the 'mantle' of such a legacy as rape, adultery, fornication, etc.
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WordWolf
Mike seems trapped on a Moebius strip.
I'll get back to that in a bit.
First, how Mike fails to read his own posts.
6/18/05, 10:46pm, Catcup.
6/18/05 10:40pm, Catcup.
6/18/05 10:50pm, Mike.
6/18/05, 10:51pm, Catcup.
6/18/05, 10:55pm, Catcup.
6/18/05, 11:01pm, Mike.
Actually, Mike,
your post 6/18/05 10:50pm sure SOUNDS like that's what you SAID AND what you THOUGHT.
Their rapes were sort of "collateral damage" while God brought Teh Tr00th to us.
A handful of rapes is a small price to pay for that-and they would have been worse off
without vpw, his Tr00th, and his rapes.
Seems nobody else on the planet was teaching about the True God and NOT raping....
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LornaDoone
TKY Mike.
You took time to read it, at least one person got blessed.
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WordWolf
Life on the Moebius strip, let's see....
Mike, 6/18/05, 10:56pm
Mike, 6/18/05, 11:01pm
Mike, 6/18/05, 11:02pm.
We discussed this subject before.
Mike has misunderstood the Uriah account,
we corrected him,
and he's STILL making the SAME mistake months later.
It's a mistake most Christians wouldn't make,
because most Christians wouldnt try to justify rape and murder.
==========
Mike,
if you ever sit down, open a Bible, and read the account,
you'll see that David engaged in a governmental coverup.
First, he hid that he was committing adultery with Mrs Uriah.
Then, when she became pregnant, he attempted to make it look like Uriah's kid by
bringing Uriah home from the war, and sending food and a Barry White album to his house
so he'd have sex with his wife and think her kid would be the result of that sex, since
he trusted her and didn't suspect her of cheating.
When that failed to work, he arranged to have Uriah killed, and to make it look like an
accident. That succeeded.
It looked like David got away with it, but then God sent Nathan to confront David over
this.
Other than Nathan-who was informed by God Almighty-there is no evidence that anyone not
directly involved knew something was up. This detour into
"Uriah's family forgave David for knocking up his wife and killing him"
is wild speculation unsupported by any Scripture.
However, Mike keeps relying on this as actually happening.
That's because Mike is adamant on saying there were no real consequences for this,
and using that as an analogy and saying there were no real consequences for the rapes
and molestations committed by vpw.
That's not unique to Mike, either. The seeds of this idolatry is in the pfal class itself,
when vpw declares that "technically, all the women in the kingdom belonged to the King",
in clear and blatant violation of the Old Testament Law-which applied to beggar and king.
This helped him pave the way for his later rapes and molestations.
A separate question is: Are they the same?
Is the one-time adultery and scramble to conspire to conceal it, even unto death,
by David, followed by his repentance,
functionally equivalent to serial premeditated rape and molestation by a "man of God",
with possible repentance as he approached the end of his days?
That's answered here.
How many months before Mike makes this claim again? I'm guessing 6 months.
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Mike
WW,
Have you read the Scheonheit article? Do you disagree with his findings?
The men who carried out David's orders to abandon Uriah knew something was very odd, at least. Bathsheba knew who knocked her up. You think she told NOBODY? Baloney. Plenty of people knew. Uriah made a public spectacle of NOT sleeping with her when he was home on leave. You don't think people were capable of putting two and two together?
Do you need a Bible verse to see these obvious things? I don't. They are CLEARLY implied. I'd need verses to say they did NOT happen before I'd even consider that. We were taught to think this way in the Orientalisms class. Unless it clearly stated otherwise, we can assume that Oriental customs were followed. Well this is much more universal than oriental customs; this is Human customs.
After Nathan's confrontation EVERYONE KNEW. All of Uriah's relatives knew EXACTLY what happened by then.
They knew and had to make decisions! You can NOT deny this.
***
I know no good man sinks to knocking up a best friend's wife and then murdering him without first having scalded his conscience with many dastardly deeds. Many people either saw these things, or even worse were victims.
I know no man, even one who repents, totally eradicates the remnants of such a seared conscience. I know David sinned again, even though it's not recorded. I'll bet my life on it, and not loose a wink of sleep.
I also know that David's bad example was kept alive by the adversary (like Dr's sins here) to help him steer people away from the Psalms. In the process another devilish effect took hold: many people picked up on it and thought "Well the King did it, I can do it too." This human dynamic is so common that, like the above items, I'd need a verse to say it did NOT happen before I'd even consider that anomaly.
David's son Solomon picked up on it and also became a jerk on many occasions in his later life. Again, I got this from the OT History class.
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Mike
There were consequences for David's sin.
Same for Moses'.
Same for mine and yours.
God will judge Dr righteously, but I'm sure he already suffered some consequences for his sin. Nobody gets away with anything, especially in the long run. I've posted to this often, and right from the start.
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Mike
Lorna Dune,
I'm sure many others did and will read your long post on the previous page. They may not post their thankfulness, wanting not to enter this battlefield, but they will bless you with prayer and maybe even a private e-mail. Thank you again for such a heartfelt piece of writing. God bless you greatly.
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WordWolf
Which-the one on Adultery, or some other?
Won't know until I know what article you mention.
That's a few people running errands, bringing food and BarryWhite albums. David was careful in this business-I would expect him to be
smart enough to use people who could keep a secret. (vpw certainly did-
and he got away with serial rape and molestation.)
The order to kill Uriah was sealed and known to one commanding
officer.
Do I think word got around his staff? No, and there's no evidence to make
any comment OTHERWISE to be anything beyond SPECULATION and GUESSWORK.
Let's see....
I might be killed if I tell someone, if I tell someone, THEY might get
killed, a deliberate attempt to make my child look like my husband's child
is in play, the penalty for adultery is STONING...
I would expect Bathsheba to keep her mouth SHUT.
The PROPER thing was never to commit adultery in the first place, but having
sinned, I expect she wasnt stupid.
To put two and two together, you need two and two. To know two, you must
first know one.
There is no evidence-beyond your speculation-that anyone knew who was
willing to talk. If anyone other than God and Nathan knew, the Word of
God remains SILENT on that issue. "Where the Word of God remains silent,
he who speaks is a fool." (vpw)
I believe I made a STRONGER argument AGAINST than you made FOR.
It didn't require deep scholarship, either.
That means there was an IMPLICATION, but you posted a SPECULATION.
They're 2 different things that are not interchangeable.
If it's so "clear", there would be a "smoking gun" verse.
I don't claim to know the mind of a murderer that well. However, there have
been things called "crimes of passion" where a moment's "hot blood" is
heeded and a felony is committed, assault, battery, destruction of property,
or murder. I'm not a criminologist nor criminal psychologist.
NEITHER ARE YOU. Please don't consider yourself an "expert on everything"-
we had our fill of that in twi.
Are we talking "committed adultery in his heart"sins, "fibbed to his wife" sins- which are one thing,
or "he committed adultery again and killed ANOTHER man to cover it" sins?
Big difference.
I expect he did the first- the second, I'd insist on seeing it line by
line.
Maybe. I'd buy that some people found the timing suspicious, and would
SUSPECT-especially after Nathan had an "executive session" with David whose
minutes were sealed, but they wouldn't KNOW.
Well, we have different thresholds for accuracy, but that hardlyqualifies as news.
It's in the Bible. I'm aware of it.
I dont need a class, tape or textbook to learn EVERYTHING.
Schoenheit's picking a fight with me? I didn't see him post.
IF, IF, IF,
Schoenheit made the claim you did-that David's entire staff knew and that
Uriah's family KNEW (not suspected), then I'd respectfully disagree with
him on the grounds I posted. I still wouldn't "argue", and I suspect he's
classier than that himself.
However, I'd prefer Schoenheit make such a claim himself before I said I
disagreed with him.
I do not believe ANY teacher short of Jesus Christ HIMSELF is incapable of
error, nor would I expect them to be, nor would I expect them to think
THEY are. (If they do, there's the FIRST error right there.)
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Mike
WW,
The article is "David's Mighty Men" from an early 80's Way Magazine issue.
I posted this just a few hours ago, but you missed it, among many other things. You only look for what you can pounce on in my posts, like I bemoaned earlier.
Remember:
After Nathan's confrontation, EVERYONE knew. Uriah's relatives had to decide whether to go with the flow of negative emotion, or go with God and His spokesman. A few made the right decision.
That's my MAIN point here in response to Catcup mentioning that her sister was hurt.
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WordWolf
Oh-you changed your post after I read it. Hang on....
I'll skip commenting on what I already commented on....
I find the overt stupidity attributed to Bathsheba running to tell her friends here
insupportable.
You believe plenty of people knew.
He notified the locals "I'm back and I'm not sleeping with my wife?"
I expect a few people noticed, but-unless they followed him around-they had no
way of knowing if he went home for an hour here or there.
It IS possible to arrive surreptitiously to a residence, have conjugal relations
with someone, and leave quietly as well. That's not a new activity.
Did some people SUSPECT? I'd expect so.
Did they have PROOF? That's a whole other matter.
You suspect they knew. Some of them SUSPECTED David.Suspicion is not PROOF.
Jumping to conclusions IS a human custom-I agree.
Nathan made an announcement in the Town Square?
David made an announcement in the Town Square?
I missed that verse...
You STILL haven't supported your statement.***
I know no good man sinks to knocking up a best friend's wife and then murdering him without first having scalded his conscience with many dastardly deeds. Many people either saw these things, or even worse were victims.
I know no man, even one who repents, totally eradicates the remnants of such a seared conscience. I know David sinned again, even though it's not recorded. I'll bet my life on it, and not loose a wink of sleep.
I also know that David's bad example was kept alive by the adversary (like Dr's sins here)
Now we get to the REAL reason for this post. It's NOT about David, it's about
vpw and his sins. Was that supposed to be surreptitious?
Nathan's reproof-which is in the Bible-mentions something alongthese lines. David had to go an awful long way to restore his good graces and
redeem his own reputation and that of the nation.
Gee, if they got that far, they could follow the logic all the way.
"The King tried it and got NAILED-his son died and everything.
If HE couldn't get away with it, what chance would I have?"
Looks like you're saying Solomon's sins are specifically the consequence of
finding out David committed adultery and murder.
Since he wasn't born yet,
I find this very difficult to support.
Again, got a Bible verse, or is this something you find indisputable about
human nature as well?
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WordWolf
No, I thought you were talking about a different article, because you now were
making blind references to an article without posting the article. I overestimated
your ability.
Usually, the name "Schoenheit" around here is used in conjunction with the
Adultery paper. I didnt jump to the conclusion that you meant that either-I ASKED.
You bemoaned it, but I do read your posts for content, such as they are.
Otherwise, I'd never comment on the substance of your claims.
That's your main CLAIM.
Your sole support to that claim-offered only when I insisted-
is that Schoenheit supposedly said so in an article.
Having seen what you do to the Blue Book and the others,
I trust you LESS than the average person on such a claim,
and I'd demand the exact quote from the AVERAGE person.
(I do that all the time when I'm not on this website, in fact.)
So, are you going to reproduce this article here,
continue to say "it agrees with me" but not produce it,
or change the subject and pronounce victory?
I'd prefer the first option, but I'm expecting one or both of the others,
based on past performance.
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Mike
WW,
I don't feel like looking for the article, scanning it, correcting scanning errors and all that. It's not necessary.
Uriah's relatives knew what David did. They had to make a decision. A few made the right decision and were included in a list of "David's mighty men." You might be able to find it via a concordance. That's the essence of what he wrote. It's very simple.
Every time I've brought this up it's the very simple point of Uriah's relatives needing to make a crucial decision. It's the same today. We all need to make a crucial decision of whether of not we're going to focus on and amplify negative emotions regarding Dr's sin, or are we going to focus on the Word God taught him and he taught us.
Do we focus on the soap opera or on the Word?
Very simple.
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Mike
I aplogize for my bad habit of radicaly editing my pieces after posting them. I just always see typos and better ways of saying things after seeing them on the board.
Maybe I should do a practice post in the PT forum just to see the board layout and there do my editing. In the heat of the moment I often prematurely post. I'll try to stop that. I imagine it must be annoying.
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